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Reply #21: Does this not strike you as somewhat paternalistic? [View All]

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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-04-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Does this not strike you as somewhat paternalistic?
In other words, how can one make the assumption that the victim(s) of an action would've wanted the same fate visited upon the perpetrator?
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  -Death Penalty Poll Gilligan  May-04-08 01:00 PM   #0 
  - And a note on this subject... I have several friends that are Federal Wardens or...  LakeSamish706   May-04-08 01:03 PM   #1 
  - I am against it and voted that way  OhioBlues   May-04-08 01:04 PM   #2 
  - Against. It's playing God and it's murder. nt  gateley   May-04-08 01:06 PM   #3 
  - Other than revenge, it serves no purpose...  rasputin1952   May-04-08 01:07 PM   #4 
  - How did Carla Faye Tucker "atone" for her crimes?  Ghost in the Machine   May-04-08 05:30 PM   #68 
     - She came to the realization she was wrong...  rasputin1952   May-04-08 05:54 PM   #74 
     - "She found peace in a way she felt was a form that was acceptable, at least to her."  Ghost in the Machine   May-04-08 07:48 PM   #82 
        - So, you think that Tucker's execution brought comfort to  rasputin1952   May-04-08 08:52 PM   #89 
           - I don't know if it did or not, either.. but thanks for realizing that that's not the point..  Ghost in the Machine   May-04-08 11:35 PM   #147 
              - When I was a soldier, I did things that I now pay a dear price for,  rasputin1952   May-05-08 12:35 AM   #156 
     - I agree with the premise  Gilligan   May-04-08 07:44 PM   #81 
     - I can respect your opinion, even though I'm a staunch supporter of the death penalty..  Ghost in the Machine   May-04-08 07:57 PM   #84 
     - Aren't they out of society by being locked up for life?  rasputin1952   May-04-08 08:57 PM   #91 
        - Prison is a 'Structured Society in a Controlled Environment'..  Ghost in the Machine   May-04-08 11:48 PM   #149 
           - Some do, some don't...Manson is a prime example of one who  rasputin1952   May-05-08 12:19 AM   #151 
     - The term "atonement" here is used to show she realized what  rasputin1952   May-04-08 09:01 PM   #93 
     - Hey, she found she could "get her nut off" with Jesus...  mitchum   May-04-08 09:10 PM   #98 
     - WWJD?  Ghost in the Machine   May-05-08 12:55 AM   #158 
     - As imaginary, magical, and mythical as the cloud-dwelling sky-fairy might be...  IntravenousDemilo   May-05-08 01:51 AM   #167 
        - Well said... and point taken..  Ghost in the Machine   May-05-08 07:41 PM   #229 
  - I am against it, always have been.  jaxx   May-04-08 01:09 PM   #5 
  - Until proponents tell me exactly how many mistakes they're willing to allow...  BlooInBloo   May-04-08 01:10 PM   #6 
  - Well said  Gilligan   May-04-08 01:19 PM   #12 
  - (blush) I'm not known for my diplomacy skills.  BlooInBloo   May-04-08 01:20 PM   #13 
     - I am writing that down  Gilligan   May-04-08 02:23 PM   #35 
  - Magic pony land - i love it  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 11:09 PM   #145 
     - :) I copped the phrase from Atrios. I'm not creative enough to make up my own snark.  BlooInBloo   May-04-08 11:51 PM   #150 
  - Our justice system is too flawed for the death penalty.  ZombieHorde   May-04-08 01:11 PM   #7 
  - State sponsored murder, is murder.  OmmmSweetOmmm   May-04-08 01:12 PM   #8 
  - As long as the judicial system is fallible  izquierdista   May-04-08 01:14 PM   #9 
  - They have it now  Gilligan   May-04-08 01:17 PM   #10 
     - No  izquierdista   May-04-08 02:09 PM   #30 
        - Well...  Gilligan   May-04-08 02:25 PM   #36 
  - I've said it before, I'll say it again  rock   May-04-08 01:19 PM   #11 
  - I am for it but I doubt that it can ever be "fair" and it costs too much.  Botany   May-04-08 01:21 PM   #14 
  - Exactly the reasons I oppose the death penalty...  spin   May-04-08 02:57 PM   #48 
  - For  LBJDemocrat   May-04-08 01:22 PM   #15 
  - Spoken like a true Christian  RC   May-04-08 01:32 PM   #19 
  - That's just a fancy way of saying revenge. (nt)  scarletwoman   May-04-08 01:32 PM   #20 
  - Does this not strike you as somewhat paternalistic?  varkam   May-04-08 01:34 PM   #21 
  - It is a known fact that MANY don't. LBJDemocrat, here's some links for you.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-04-08 09:17 PM   #104 
  - that's called revenge n/t  benddem   May-04-08 02:07 PM   #29 
  - Back to the Book of Matthew for you (chapter 7 is a good start...).  blondeatlast   May-04-08 05:11 PM   #63 
  - Yikes. Maybe that avatar of yours represents something I interpret differently...  blondeatlast   May-04-08 05:14 PM   #65 
  - hmm.  ulysses   May-04-08 06:03 PM   #75 
  - What happens when the state commits murder in our name?  baldguy   May-04-08 08:34 PM   #86 
  - So what about the victims of the death penalty sentence?  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:27 PM   #130 
  - that would make US murderers n/t  Skittles   May-05-08 02:35 AM   #173 
  - dup  Skittles   May-05-08 02:35 AM   #174 
  - I am against it because I believe in universal human rights.  varkam   May-04-08 01:25 PM   #16 
  - thou shalt not kill no asterik  spanone   May-04-08 01:27 PM   #17 
  - If you are referring to that tribal law allegedly handed down to those herdsmen...  mitchum   May-04-08 01:38 PM   #23 
  - I guess that all depends on which version you're reading...  varkam   May-04-08 09:24 PM   #108 
     - Why would I read it at all? Tribal law for patriarchal herdsmen in the Middle East...  mitchum   May-04-08 10:31 PM   #133 
        - Whether or not you believe in the veracity of the bible...  varkam   May-05-08 01:41 AM   #164 
           - Okay, then...the Easter Bunny is in favor of the death penalty  mitchum   May-05-08 07:09 AM   #176 
              - What are you talking about?  varkam   May-05-08 11:17 AM   #198 
                 - An "effective rhetorical tool" based upon an imaginary being, of course  mitchum   May-05-08 11:31 AM   #202 
                    - Again, it has nothing to do with whether or not *you* believe in it.  varkam   May-05-08 02:49 PM   #214 
                       - So, you are advocating manipulating others through their belief systems?  mitchum   May-05-08 02:57 PM   #215 
                          - Lol! You're ridiculous.  varkam   May-05-08 03:14 PM   #217 
                             - Of course, I have heard of it, but since I'm not a pasty little internet geek..  mitchum   May-05-08 03:52 PM   #219 
                                - If you think that the bible is beneath any sort of discussion as it all made up and imaginary...  varkam   May-05-08 07:44 PM   #230 
                                   - It is not beneath dicussion, but it is beyond credibilty.  mitchum   May-05-08 07:50 PM   #231 
                                      - And where have I said anything one way or the other about the credibility of the bible?  varkam   May-05-08 07:51 PM   #232 
  - Save The Asterik!  Gilligan   May-04-08 02:27 PM   #38 
  - Against.  LWolf   May-04-08 01:29 PM   #18 
  - .....  TransitJohn   May-04-08 03:04 PM   #50 
     - LOL  Gilligan   May-04-08 03:16 PM   #51 
     - I should add: and survival, of course.  LWolf   May-04-08 04:19 PM   #60 
  - I am against it for many reasons,  polmaven   May-04-08 01:36 PM   #22 
  - Against.  flashl   May-04-08 01:38 PM   #24 
  - It's not ever acceptable. NEVER. n/t  Judi Lynn   May-04-08 01:48 PM   #25 
  - Very much against.  flvegan   May-04-08 01:50 PM   #26 
  - Some people because of thier actions deserve to die...  Jack_DeLeon   May-04-08 01:50 PM   #27 
  - Pretty solid?  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:29 PM   #131 
  - against it --  Tuesday Afternoon   May-04-08 02:06 PM   #28 
  - I was for it before I was against it.  GreenPartyVoter   May-04-08 02:09 PM   #31 
  - I'm both for and against it...strange I know but here's why  bluebellbaby   May-04-08 02:12 PM   #32 
  - Wow...  Gilligan   May-04-08 02:42 PM   #42 
  - I know this and I said so but  bluebellbaby   May-04-08 02:54 PM   #46 
     - Like I said  Gilligan   May-04-08 02:56 PM   #47 
        - yeah you're right...love the caption in your post....  bluebellbaby   May-04-08 03:19 PM   #52 
  - From this reply, and your exchange with Gilligan, I would say that you need to do a lot more  greyhound1966   May-04-08 03:35 PM   #54 
  - "preverted view"...thanks for the insult...but here's the list  bluebellbaby   May-05-08 06:36 PM   #226 
  - I thought only the RRR got the Bible seconds that left out the Gospels.  blondeatlast   May-04-08 05:18 PM   #66 
  - sorry what's "rrr" and the reference to bible seconds...I'm a natural blonde  bluebellbaby   May-05-08 06:41 PM   #227 
  - Eye for an eye isn't justice, its revenge  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:30 PM   #132 
     - I don't see any difference between justice and revenge....sorry  bluebellbaby   May-05-08 06:46 PM   #228 
  - I am 100% against the death penalty.  Cerridwen   May-04-08 02:15 PM   #33 
  - As long as the death penalty is carried out in my name, I will forever condemn it!  Nutmegger   May-04-08 02:18 PM   #34 
  - The answer to violence isn't more violence.  zanne   May-04-08 02:27 PM   #37 
  - Bumper sticker wisdom  Cerridwen   May-04-08 02:29 PM   #39 
  - against  Bill McBlueState   May-04-08 02:34 PM   #40 
  - I'm against it but  notfullofit   May-04-08 02:35 PM   #41 
  - no...  Gilligan   May-04-08 02:44 PM   #43 
     - OK you got me! nt  notfullofit   May-04-08 04:09 PM   #58 
  - Killing people is always a bad idea. n/t  sfexpat2000   May-04-08 02:46 PM   #44 
  - I'm against it. nm  dicksteele   May-04-08 02:48 PM   #45 
  - Against  TransitJohn   May-04-08 02:57 PM   #49 
  - I certainly understand the reason why so many approve of it, but I'm firmly against it. n/t  greyhound1966   May-04-08 03:25 PM   #53 
  - Against. Reason: I quit vacillating between the two choices.  ThomWV   May-04-08 03:38 PM   #55 
  - Well put.  Gilligan   May-04-08 07:51 PM   #83 
  - I oppose it for practical reasons.  Pushed To The Left   May-04-08 03:39 PM   #56 
  - Against.  Jesuswasntafascist   May-04-08 04:08 PM   #57 
  - Robespierre was a liberal who opposed the death penalty  MATTMAN   May-04-08 04:19 PM   #59 
  - Actually, it's a matter of being rational vs. being emotional  depakid   May-04-08 05:50 PM   #72 
     - I think your argument  Gilligan   May-05-08 08:19 PM   #236 
  - I vacillate between the two.  Wizard777   May-04-08 05:02 PM   #61 
  - Against, against, against.  blondeatlast   May-04-08 05:08 PM   #62 
  - Pro-DP: Because some people don't deserve to live after what they did; No Justice, No Peace.  aikoaiko   May-04-08 05:12 PM   #64 
  - Who are the "some people?" And who are YOU to judge them? nt  blondeatlast   May-04-08 05:20 PM   #67 
  - Some people include those who cause tremendous suffering and cruelty  aikoaiko   May-04-08 05:47 PM   #71 
     - Why should we be wanting to inflict more suffering and cruelty...  varkam   May-04-08 09:03 PM   #97 
        - Depends on how you look at it.  aikoaiko   May-04-08 09:12 PM   #99 
        - Whether or not there is a slight majority, that is irrelevant as to how...  varkam   May-04-08 09:13 PM   #101 
           - Its really pretty simple. Some people's anguish ends when a heinous person ceases to exist.  aikoaiko   May-04-08 09:18 PM   #105 
              - But one of the reasons we have a criminal justice system is to move away...  varkam   May-04-08 09:21 PM   #107 
                 - Society anguishes, not just the direct victims or family and friends of vicitms.  aikoaiko   May-04-08 09:28 PM   #109 
                    - Retribution has always been one of the justifications for punishment...  varkam   May-05-08 01:39 AM   #163 
        - How is executing somebody "more" suffering and cruelty?  krispos42   May-04-08 11:15 PM   #146 
           - My question was referring to the underlying motivation of the conclusion.  varkam   May-05-08 01:43 AM   #166 
              - Ah, okay  krispos42   May-06-08 12:36 AM   #237 
  - Know justice, know peace.  baldguy   May-04-08 08:42 PM   #88 
  - Exactly.  aikoaiko   May-04-08 09:13 PM   #100 
     - Murder is not justice - even when its committed by the state.  baldguy   May-04-08 10:11 PM   #121 
        - except when its punishment after due process.  aikoaiko   May-04-08 10:40 PM   #135 
           - Due process is shit. How many innocents have been subject to death due to "due process"?  baldguy   May-04-08 11:05 PM   #144 
              - If you see no difference between American dp and holocausts then there is no point in discussing  aikoaiko   May-04-08 11:40 PM   #148 
                 - When innocents are murdered, there is no difference.  baldguy   May-05-08 08:44 AM   #183 
  - Justice = Violence = Peace? nt  Sparkly   May-04-08 09:03 PM   #96 
     - Sometimes. nt  aikoaiko   May-04-08 09:14 PM   #102 
  - I'm in favor of the death penalty.  MrSlayer   May-04-08 05:41 PM   #69 
  - So you're in favor of murder  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:16 PM   #122 
     - No, I'm in favor of justice.  MrSlayer   May-04-08 10:31 PM   #134 
     - Do you know what differentiates revenge from justice?  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:49 PM   #141 
        - One man's justice is another man's revenge.  MrSlayer   May-05-08 12:59 AM   #159 
           - What error rate are you comfortable with?  RedCappedBandit   May-05-08 07:37 AM   #179 
     - So that means you must agree with the anti-choicers who insist that abortion...  mitchum   May-04-08 10:41 PM   #137 
        - Not at all, my friend.  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:48 PM   #140 
           - Then why are you playing fast and loose with the very precisely defined...  mitchum   May-05-08 07:06 AM   #175 
              - I do not see abortion and murder as one in the same  RedCappedBandit   May-05-08 12:37 PM   #213 
  - Why are we having this conversation?  micraphone   May-04-08 05:45 PM   #70 
  - Against.  Balbus   May-04-08 05:52 PM   #73 
  - my feelings go back and forth  logosoco   May-04-08 06:04 PM   #76 
  - completely against.  ulysses   May-04-08 06:06 PM   #77 
  - I go back and forth, but much more against than for these days  MiniMe   May-04-08 06:18 PM   #78 
  - Against  LeftishBrit   May-04-08 06:29 PM   #79 
  - against it because Corporate Criminals get away with killing people and just....  BlueJazz   May-04-08 06:41 PM   #80 
  - Roll on one... roll on two.  D__S   May-04-08 08:07 PM   #85 
  - Governments are instituted among men to stop people from getting killed  baldguy   May-04-08 08:38 PM   #87 
  - Other: only for crimes of office.  Jed Dilligan   May-04-08 08:54 PM   #90 
  - Don't you think that the death penalty for crimes of office...  LeftishBrit   May-05-08 02:16 AM   #170 
     - For the moment our courts are a little cleaner than most dictatorships,  Jed Dilligan   May-05-08 11:50 AM   #208 
  - Against.  Sparkly   May-04-08 09:00 PM   #92 
  - State-sanctioned murder is just WRONG.....period. ......  marmar   May-04-08 09:01 PM   #94 
  - For  socordsx   May-04-08 09:01 PM   #95 
  - I am for the death penalty.  Wcross   May-04-08 09:16 PM   #103 
  - What's the official source for this data? Until you provide one, I'm calling bullshit. -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-04-08 09:35 PM   #113 
  - That graph is bullshit:  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:26 PM   #129 
  - *ahem*  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:18 PM   #124 
  - Source? Link? Hey, I've got MS Excel and Photoshop. I can prove that eliminating the DP makes murder  blondeatlast   May-05-08 11:05 AM   #194 
  - It's like this joke Jeff Foxworthy (I think) told:  Herdin_Cats   May-04-08 09:18 PM   #106 
  - Against.  lumberjack_jeff   May-04-08 09:30 PM   #110 
  - Everyone is against the death penalty until someone they love is murdered.  goldcanyonaz   May-04-08 09:33 PM   #111 
  - bullshit and speak for yourself.  chimpsrsmarter   May-04-08 09:34 PM   #112 
  - And you have suffered that loss?  goldcanyonaz   May-04-08 09:36 PM   #114 
     - yes.  chimpsrsmarter   May-04-08 09:36 PM   #115 
        - And the killer admitted to it in graphic detail?  goldcanyonaz   May-04-08 09:38 PM   #117 
           - i gave you my answer already and i don't feel the need to go in to detail about either  chimpsrsmarter   May-04-08 09:40 PM   #119 
              - No disrespect meant. Sorry for you loss.  goldcanyonaz   May-04-08 09:42 PM   #120 
  - Wrong on both counts. See post 104.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   May-04-08 09:37 PM   #116 
  - Everyone is for the death penalty until they're the innocent being convicted.  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:19 PM   #125 
  - Not true.  SeattleGirl   May-05-08 12:31 AM   #154 
  - Not true!  Gilligan   May-05-08 09:03 AM   #184 
  - Not so. A dear friend was raped and murdered. I spoke against the offender receiving the death penal  blondeatlast   May-05-08 11:06 AM   #195 
  - That's about the worst argument I've ever heard for the DP.  varkam   May-05-08 07:55 PM   #233 
  - I vacillate  Husb2Sparkly   May-04-08 09:39 PM   #118 
  - opposed  BlueCollar   May-04-08 10:17 PM   #123 
  - Death Penalty = Murder  RedCappedBandit   May-04-08 10:20 PM   #126 
  - Against the death penalty except in two cases, and not due to the fact that it will discourage otehr  nadinbrzezinski   May-04-08 10:22 PM   #127 
  - I am against it 100%.  Fox Mulder   May-04-08 10:23 PM   #128 
  - I said I vacilate because I think the death penalty is overused.  napi21   May-04-08 10:40 PM   #136 
  - It should be extended to corruption and other white collar crimes  mitchum   May-04-08 10:43 PM   #138 
  - Killing people is revenge, plain and simple...  SidDithers   May-04-08 10:47 PM   #139 
  - Absolutely against.  Laurier   May-04-08 10:55 PM   #142 
  - For  frogcycle   May-04-08 11:01 PM   #143 
  - Against the death penalty  Iwillnevergiveup   May-05-08 12:23 AM   #152 
  - I'm against the death penalty.  SeattleGirl   May-05-08 12:29 AM   #153 
  - Some people do not deserve to live but no one is wise or  csziggy   May-05-08 12:33 AM   #155 
  - Adamantly opposed  proud2Blib   May-05-08 12:37 AM   #157 
  - I voted other so I will explain  drmeow   May-05-08 01:14 AM   #160 
  - It is a form of unnecessary killing. If the person is incarcerated and secured, he is no threat.  Selatius   May-05-08 01:22 AM   #161 
  - I'm against the death penalty as a practical matter.  TheWraith   May-05-08 01:26 AM   #162 
  - I am against it because  StarryNite   May-05-08 01:41 AM   #165 
  - Those who support the death penalty are no different than those who murder for other reasons.  ConsAreLiars   May-05-08 01:55 AM   #168 
  - It's barbaric. Societies that practise it are barbarous. People who promote it are barbarians.  IntravenousDemilo   May-05-08 02:12 AM   #169 
  - We can't Kill our way out of violent crime......  Mercracer   May-05-08 02:30 AM   #171 
  - Against - Biased and used for revenge, not deterrence  hokies4ever   May-05-08 02:32 AM   #172 
  - I'm against the death penalty for several reasons  Bettie   May-05-08 07:14 AM   #177 
  - Against  Echo In Light   May-05-08 07:18 AM   #178 
  - Yes and no.  mainegreen   May-05-08 08:31 AM   #180 
  - Against, mainly due to the inevitability that innocent people will be executed. /nt  dorkulon   May-05-08 08:35 AM   #181 
  - Against! In every situation! Against!  lonestarnot   May-05-08 08:42 AM   #182 
  - I went "other"  Prophet 451   May-05-08 09:21 AM   #185 
  - History Channel  dwebb210   May-05-08 09:36 AM   #186 
  - Couldn't disagree more. And I wouldn't base my views around History Channel propaganda  Echo In Light   May-05-08 09:39 AM   #187 
  - deterrent  dwebb210   May-05-08 09:42 AM   #188 
     - Nope  Echo In Light   May-05-08 09:43 AM   #189 
     - law  dwebb210   May-05-08 09:50 AM   #190 
        - America uses phony war$ as an extension of state power, which I'm against 110%  Echo In Light   May-05-08 09:57 AM   #191 
        - Did you sneak in?  Gilligan   May-05-08 09:59 AM   #192 
        - Speak for yourself!  Raksha   May-05-08 08:18 PM   #235 
     - It doesn't matter what you *think*  RedCappedBandit   May-05-08 11:17 AM   #199 
  - How very typical of a neocon  RedCappedBandit   May-05-08 11:16 AM   #197 
  - Actually, our punishments aren't that light.  varkam   May-05-08 03:37 PM   #218 
  - Way too many statistics that contradict this basic assumption  nadinbrzezinski   May-05-08 04:19 PM   #222 
  - I am against it (nt)  bigwillq   May-05-08 10:02 AM   #193 
  - For it  Indenturedebtor   May-05-08 11:14 AM   #196 
  - On average, DP costs $2million MORE than life in prison.  RedCappedBandit   May-05-08 11:18 AM   #200 
  - Does it have to though?  Indenturedebtor   May-05-08 11:49 AM   #207 
     - Lets assume that it doesn't have to.  RedCappedBandit   May-05-08 12:34 PM   #212 
  - That's progressive  Gilligan   May-05-08 11:34 AM   #203 
  - If the Chinese are actually doing that, they aren't keeping that kid alive for long, anyway.  blondeatlast   May-05-08 11:36 AM   #205 
  - Harvest the organs? Where did you get THAT? A death penalty donor would be  blondeatlast   May-05-08 11:35 AM   #204 
  - If everyone could see the "justice" system from both sides, as I have, they would oppose the DP too.  blondeatlast   May-05-08 11:19 AM   #201 
  - for treason only  madokie   May-05-08 11:39 AM   #206 
  - You got it. I'm against, about 99.99 percent of the time...  warren pease   May-05-08 12:09 PM   #210 
     - Just to note: the International Criminal Court doesn't use the death penalty  LeftishBrit   May-06-08 02:38 AM   #239 
  - Against, because while it may be justified people aren't smart enough to be absolutely sure  slackmaster   May-05-08 11:51 AM   #209 
  - for the death penalty  Sees Clearly   May-05-08 12:22 PM   #211 
  - I'm against it and see no logical reason to have a death penalty, however  Uncle Joe   May-05-08 03:07 PM   #216 
  - Against it because,  FORREST GRUMP   May-05-08 03:55 PM   #220 
  - Whack 'em all  Contradistinction   May-05-08 04:09 PM   #221 
  - quick, edit in the sarcasm emoticon...  aquarius dawning   May-05-08 04:34 PM   #224 
  - I'm completely forgainst it.  aquarius dawning   May-05-08 04:32 PM   #223 
  - Killing is wrong.  Orsino   May-05-08 04:48 PM   #225 
  - Opposed on general principles. It's giving the state too much power.  Raksha   May-05-08 08:05 PM   #234 
  - Other  Asgaya Dihi   May-06-08 01:12 AM   #238 
  - I'm for it but only under extreme circumstances. NT  Snarkturian Clone   May-06-08 07:24 AM   #240 
 

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