Truth2Tell
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Fri May-02-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
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"The end of dropping the bomb seems, from the evidence, to have been not winning the war, which was already assured, not saving lives, for it was highly probable no American invasion would be necessary, but the aggrandisement of American national power at the moment and in the postwar period... For the idea that any means - mass murder, the misuse of science, the corruption of professionalism - are acceptable to achieve the end of national power, the ultimate example of our time is Hiroshima."
-Howard Zinn
I'd post a bunch of links to the truth about this garbage American mythology but this is one occasion where I'd rather simply suggest you use the fucking Google.
As long as we make up bullshit lies to obscure the crimes of our past we will just repeat the same crimes over and over again.
Obliterate my ass.
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| -Obliterate -never-before-published photographs Hiroshima- Graphic warning. |
Ichingcarpenter |
May-02-08 04:39 PM |
#0 |
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Too bad images like that weren't available for our leaders BEFORE they made the decision |
slackmaster |
May-02-08 04:40 PM |
#1 |
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May Hillary have the guts, no the balls, to look at these images every day before deciding to |
indepat |
May-02-08 05:17 PM |
#22 |
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As long as that nation |
MonkeyFunk |
May-03-08 07:59 AM |
#52 |
| -
Doesn't Israel have some 400 nuclear warheads? |
wuushew |
May-05-08 02:03 PM |
#123 |
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They had pictures of equal carnage elsewhere |
hack89 |
May-03-08 04:33 PM |
#91 |
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Wow....n/t |
Lady-Damai |
May-02-08 04:42 PM |
#2 |
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k&r. Tragic. |
uppityperson |
May-02-08 04:43 PM |
#3 |
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Were Heroshima & Nagasaki MIlitary Targets? |
Disturbed |
May-02-08 04:46 PM |
#5 |
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Didn't all the people just incinerate into dust? |
uppityperson |
May-02-08 04:49 PM |
#7 |
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Many did but thousand jumped into water to escape the flames ... |
Botany |
May-02-08 04:54 PM |
#10 |
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I know. I was asking sarcastically, since I have heard this from people. |
uppityperson |
May-02-08 05:01 PM |
#17 |
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Only people who were pretty close to the mushroom cloud were killed instantly |
Lydia Leftcoast |
May-02-08 05:43 PM |
#29 |
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I know. I read Hiroshima as a middle schooler, and it has affected me for life. |
uppityperson |
May-02-08 11:12 PM |
#33 |
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Me too. |
emmadoggy |
May-03-08 04:23 PM |
#88 |
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Read Hersey's book in high school 1947. One of the best |
lumpy |
May-03-08 04:30 PM |
#90 |
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It was one of the first books I got out when I was allowed into the adult sections |
uppityperson |
May-03-08 04:39 PM |
#93 |
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read it in middle school too |
caraher |
May-04-08 12:59 AM |
#106 |
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At Ground Zero, people did incinerate and become ash |
truedelphi |
May-02-08 05:46 PM |
#30 |
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Another oddity about the Hiroshima blast |
Lydia Leftcoast |
May-03-08 12:39 AM |
#34 |
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OH Lydia, it might be a wonderful thing for you to recount all your |
truedelphi |
May-03-08 03:32 PM |
#83 |
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Hiroshima was deliberately left unbombed before August 1945 |
Lydia Leftcoast |
May-02-08 05:37 PM |
#27 |
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Actually, Nagasaki also was cloudy |
Angleae |
May-03-08 03:24 AM |
#37 |
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They were industrial centers |
krispos42 |
May-04-08 12:10 AM |
#103 |
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And bush wants a new generation of nuclear weapons. |
alfredo |
May-02-08 04:44 PM |
#4 |
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Doc film on Hiroshima/Nagasaki/current state of nukes, Original Child Bomb |
Echo In Light |
May-04-08 07:04 AM |
#109 |
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I've lived my life under the threat of total annihilation from the bomb. |
alfredo |
May-04-08 08:27 AM |
#110 |
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obliteration is more than just a puffing |
Supersedeas |
May-05-08 03:33 PM |
#127 |
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This is why all humanity should work toward peace. |
Uncle Joe |
May-02-08 04:47 PM |
#6 |
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Sen Clinton said that she would Obliterate Iran if Iran |
Disturbed |
May-02-08 04:54 PM |
#11 |
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I already knew that and it didn't take 30 seconds |
Uncle Joe |
May-02-08 05:02 PM |
#19 |
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Awful images but the bomb saved millions ..... |
Botany |
May-02-08 04:52 PM |
#8 |
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I know several people whose fathers were on deck to invade Japan |
slackmaster |
May-02-08 05:19 PM |
#23 |
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I had a neighbor in the 1980's .... he was a P.O.W. in Japan |
Botany |
May-02-08 05:30 PM |
#26 |
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Not neccessarily so. |
MadHound |
May-03-08 05:41 AM |
#39 |
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That is completely not true. I don't have the book in front of me, but here we go: |
Zynx |
May-03-08 10:49 AM |
#59 |
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Geesh I love YouTube |
Rosemary2205 |
May-04-08 11:10 AM |
#113 |
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Yes, |
verges |
May-03-08 11:24 AM |
#74 |
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That was propaganda to justify the act - it's been largely debunked. |
bean fidhleir |
May-03-08 07:01 AM |
#41 |
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That's a theory some historians support. Others no. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 10:50 AM |
#60 |
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Oh sure, TRUMAN thought so, or said he did, but that doesn't mean |
bean fidhleir |
May-03-08 11:30 AM |
#76 |
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Yet Zynx is correct. It's merely a theory at this point. |
LanternWaste |
May-05-08 03:49 PM |
#128 |
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Agree, Truman would not have done that |
OzarkDem |
May-03-08 11:32 AM |
#77 |
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My grandfather, too |
OzarkDem |
May-03-08 11:30 AM |
#75 |
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That's how my dad feels about it |
ginbarn |
May-05-08 03:03 PM |
#126 |
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That's horrible and so was the "Rape of Nanking", the Japanese slaughtered over 200,000 civilians.nt |
jody |
May-02-08 04:53 PM |
#9 |
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What's one got to do with the other? |
Bornaginhooligan |
May-02-08 04:54 PM |
#12 |
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Both deal with the horrors of war. Truman used atomic bombs because intelligence showed Japan was |
jody |
May-02-08 04:59 PM |
#16 |
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Intelligence showed Japan was defeated, and ready to surrender. |
Bornaginhooligan |
May-02-08 05:01 PM |
#18 |
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You and I are not going to agree on this issue so we end up disagreeing. Have a nice evening. n/t |
jody |
May-02-08 05:03 PM |
#20 |
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You should probably check your facts rather than "agreeing to disagree". This is a factual issue, |
bean fidhleir |
May-03-08 07:16 AM |
#44 |
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Perhaps it is you who should check your facts. Apparently you rely upon sanitized, revisionist |
jody |
May-03-08 07:32 AM |
#46 |
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Your father was a soldier. Look at those corpses in that picture. I see the bodies of children. |
AP |
May-03-08 07:43 AM |
#48 |
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Why ignore the question, was Truman right in using the atomic bomb given the information he had? |
jody |
May-03-08 07:57 AM |
#51 |
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Talk about ignoring the question! |
AP |
May-03-08 10:31 AM |
#55 |
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Your question has no relevance to Truman's decision to use the atomic bomb. n/t |
jody |
May-03-08 10:36 AM |
#57 |
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¿Truman shouldn't have been considering deaths of over 100,000 innocent civilians, many of whom |
AP |
May-03-08 10:40 AM |
#58 |
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Yes! Truman's job as commander in chief was to end the war as quickly as possible with minimum |
jody |
May-03-08 10:51 AM |
#61 |
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Emperors sure don't care about people! |
AP |
May-03-08 10:41 PM |
#99 |
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Sorry but that's the way wars are conducted, only the head of a nation may surrender. That's why |
jody |
May-04-08 10:06 AM |
#111 |
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There were children killed by the Japanese in every territory they invaded |
truedelphi |
May-03-08 01:56 PM |
#81 |
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Who do you punish? Other children? Or their government? |
AP |
May-03-08 10:41 PM |
# |
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How do you punish a government? |
krispos42 |
May-04-08 12:26 AM |
#104 |
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I consider myself a pacifist on account of the fact that |
truedelphi |
May-04-08 08:10 PM |
#120 |
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Who do you punish? Other children? Or their government? |
AP |
May-03-08 10:41 PM |
#98 |
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That's an ad hominem. |
girl gone mad |
May-04-08 12:47 AM |
#105 |
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No more "ad hominem" than those pictures... |
AP |
May-04-08 01:13 AM |
#107 |
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No, no it did not. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 10:52 AM |
#62 |
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The point is this: The Japanese had nothing preventing them from surrendering |
truedelphi |
May-03-08 03:26 PM |
#82 |
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The real question is who had what intelligence. I'm not sure if |
hedgehog |
May-03-08 03:36 PM |
#85 |
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Eight months earlier, intelligence showed the precise same thing concerning Germany |
LanternWaste |
May-05-08 03:55 PM |
#131 |
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Both are examples of Total War |
slackmaster |
May-02-08 05:19 PM |
#24 |
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And those who died instantly were the lucky ones |
MindPilot |
May-02-08 04:54 PM |
#13 |
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I don't know and why has it taken 63 years ? |
Ichingcarpenter |
May-02-08 04:59 PM |
#15 |
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I need to go throw up now... |
housewolf |
May-02-08 04:58 PM |
#14 |
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These photos, like the signature photos of Nam and the graphic images |
nosmokes |
May-02-08 05:05 PM |
#21 |
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It will have to compete with propaganda crap like Rambo; whose weapon |
Uncle Joe |
May-02-08 05:42 PM |
#28 |
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While some of our actions were not, our involvement in WWII was a net positive. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 11:04 AM |
#70 |
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Why just Americans? |
OzarkDem |
May-03-08 11:34 AM |
#78 |
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We were good , the Japanese and Germans were evil ! |
UndertheOcean |
May-02-08 05:21 PM |
#25 |
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Actually, I have a hard time not saying that. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 11:06 AM |
#71 |
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The Nazi's were evil |
hack89 |
May-03-08 04:39 PM |
#94 |
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Harry Truman knew what he was doing. |
Preston120 |
May-02-08 06:38 PM |
#31 |
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Horseshit. |
Truth2Tell |
May-02-08 10:58 PM |
#32 |
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One day we'll see the real pictures |
malaise |
May-03-08 07:04 AM |
#42 |
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yea, a country that did not do anything to us. |
alyce douglas |
May-05-08 01:59 PM |
#122 |
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That's one interpretation, hardly the final truth. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 10:53 AM |
#63 |
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"Forced to invade" |
tsdraegeth |
May-03-08 12:45 AM |
#35 |
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Truman's decision was made very soberly. If you read "Truman" by David McCullough |
Zynx |
May-03-08 10:56 AM |
#65 |
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"Revisionist history" re Truman is offensive |
OzarkDem |
May-03-08 11:39 AM |
#79 |
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No, the invasion estimate was 250K US lives, and Truman knew that |
bean fidhleir |
May-03-08 07:14 AM |
#43 |
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2 million could well have been a total casualty estimate. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 10:55 AM |
#64 |
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It's easy to second guess Truman |
OmahaBlueDog |
May-03-08 11:15 AM |
#72 |
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For an account of the aftermath I highly recommend Masuji Ibuse's novel "Black Rain"... |
Hekate |
May-03-08 01:30 AM |
#36 |
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But this was OK....right? |
edwardsguy |
May-03-08 04:06 AM |
#38 |
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Who said that? |
JNelson6563 |
May-03-08 06:55 AM |
#40 |
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Japan would have attacked civilians if they had the chance just as they killed 20 million in China. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 11:02 AM |
#69 |
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and yet my point remains standing |
JNelson6563 |
May-03-08 11:17 AM |
#73 |
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It was a despicable attack, but only 2400 died, almost all military. Compare that with |
bean fidhleir |
May-03-08 07:23 AM |
#45 |
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Japan killed 20 million people in China. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 11:00 AM |
#67 |
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Got a cite for that claim? The worst I can find is 300K victims at Nanjing |
bean fidhleir |
May-03-08 11:40 AM |
#80 |
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You're woefully uninformed |
rockymountaindem |
May-03-08 04:24 PM |
#89 |
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I suspect racism is the reason those aren't pictures of a German city and German corpses |
AP |
May-03-08 07:39 AM |
#47 |
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No shortage of those either |
rockymountaindem |
May-03-08 07:48 AM |
#50 |
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You know what's sick about that... |
AP |
May-03-08 10:35 AM |
#56 |
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I'd like to see those studies you're talking about |
rockymountaindem |
May-03-08 04:21 PM |
#87 |
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That is so much BULLSHIT. |
Zynx |
May-03-08 10:57 AM |
#66 |
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Shame because it sickens me to see those pictures and I wonder how the minds work of the people |
AP |
May-03-08 10:46 PM |
#100 |
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War is hell. |
Squatch |
May-03-08 07:48 AM |
#49 |
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Yes war is hell |
Retired AF Dem |
May-03-08 09:17 AM |
#54 |
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Those civilians, those children, were victims. Please don't confuse Gvt with People. |
uppityperson |
May-03-08 04:44 PM |
#95 |
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And most always unnecessary. |
Owl |
May-03-08 03:40 PM |
#86 |
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omg. |
Bonobo |
May-03-08 09:15 AM |
#53 |
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Send it to Hillary. Title it "Obliterated." n/t |
Xap |
May-03-08 11:01 AM |
#68 |
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Agreed. |
Fox Mulder |
May-03-08 03:36 PM |
#84 |
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Even if you accept that this definitely saved millions of lives, |
slowry |
May-03-08 04:36 PM |
#92 |
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Bombing civilian targets on purpose simply cannot be justified. |
dbmk |
May-03-08 05:15 PM |
#96 |
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Kick. n/t |
Cerridwen |
May-03-08 08:37 PM |
#97 |
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Historically speaking, the decision to drop the bombs were |
rasputin1952 |
May-03-08 10:52 PM |
#101 |
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Well written. Looks like you and I have read the same books & perhaps grew up in the same times. n/t |
jody |
May-04-08 10:55 AM |
#112 |
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Thanks...as a history loving person, I love to get as many |
rasputin1952 |
May-04-08 11:23 AM |
#115 |
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Strategically and tactically...but not morally correct. |
LeftHander |
May-05-08 02:58 PM |
#125 |
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The indiscriminate killing of civilians including women and |
rasputin1952 |
May-05-08 05:01 PM |
#137 |
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IKE was ready, willing and able to do that to the Soviet Union. |
Octafish |
May-03-08 11:44 PM |
#102 |
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We visited Hiroshima last year |
spinbaby |
May-04-08 06:33 AM |
#108 |
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Sorry... Unjustifiable |
fascisthunter |
May-04-08 11:17 AM |
#114 |
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Were you alive at the time? All things w/the decision have |
rasputin1952 |
May-04-08 11:31 AM |
#116 |
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Sorry... I'm Not Convinced |
fascisthunter |
May-05-08 03:51 PM |
#130 |
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It is not the only scenario during those times when there was |
rasputin1952 |
May-05-08 04:43 PM |
#132 |
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You are Trying to Justify a Horrific Act |
fascisthunter |
May-05-08 04:50 PM |
#134 |
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In the times, it was justifiable... |
rasputin1952 |
May-05-08 04:53 PM |
#135 |
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No... It's Your Opinion |
fascisthunter |
May-05-08 04:57 PM |
#136 |
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Were you alive at the time? All things w/the decision have |
rasputin1952 |
May-04-08 11:31 AM |
#117 |
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We can't say that the war would of been worse.... |
LeftHander |
May-05-08 02:52 PM |
#124 |
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Unless you were alive in 1945 and a potential casualty if the U.S. invaded Japan, then you have no |
jody |
May-04-08 05:35 PM |
#119 |
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The US had the war won; Japan couldn't have "forced" it to invade |
Shatov |
May-05-08 01:51 PM |
#121 |
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Sorry but Japan was given a chance to surrender but it refused. I've read the quotes you cite plus |
jody |
May-06-08 07:59 AM |
#139 |
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If My Opinion was so Easily Dismissed |
fascisthunter |
May-05-08 03:49 PM |
#129 |
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Sorry but we are talking about using atomic bombs to end a war that had already cost millions of |
jody |
May-06-08 07:51 AM |
#138 |
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unpublished? |
iamthebandfanman |
May-04-08 11:32 AM |
#118 |
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I think this is that thread. It's been going for days. |
uppityperson |
May-05-08 04:45 PM |
#133 |
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