You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login

Reply #39: The conclusion I have reached is electrification, both personal and freight [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-24-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
39. The conclusion I have reached is electrification, both personal and freight
Electric cars, electric trains, electric trucks (trams). The part that cannot be electrified can be run on biofuel and a modest CTL program (< 1 Mbbl/dy total).

Electric cars (w/ regen braking) require 1/7th of the energy of an equivalent sized IC powered vehicle to get a payload from point A to B in typical driving conditions.

Parallel to transforming the transportation energy carrier, we need to transform society. In a general sense, re-localize. Much shorter commutes, essential goods and services produced locally as much as possible.

Problem is, we will still need personal transport to negotiate the sprawl built over generations during the transition that will take generations. The following class of vehicle is probably the future in this transition. Designed using bicycle concepts (the most efficient form of transportation), a small, lightweight EV.

People should probably not get their hopes up for anything bigger, as there are not the resources to build a fleet of EV's equal to the number of IC personal vehicles we have today.

Oh, and did you know that a conventional IC personal vehicle (say, a Ford Taurus) is more energy efficient than all forms of mass transit when the vehicle carries two or more passengers. From an energy conservation standpoint, small efficient EV's make much more sense than mass transit except for the most densely traveled routes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
  -Are electric vehicles the answer? GaYellowDawg  Apr-24-08 12:12 PM   #0 
  - It depends on the question  NoMoreMyths   Apr-24-08 12:27 PM   #1 
  - if the local grid is powered by hydroelectric dams or windpower, yes. However  Lerkfish   Apr-24-08 12:28 PM   #2 
  - Well, I will point something out...  GaYellowDawg   Apr-24-08 12:33 PM   #4 
     - valid point.  Lerkfish   Apr-24-08 12:44 PM   #16 
     - carbon capture technology for coal plants is still unproven  Radical Activist   Apr-24-08 12:48 PM   #18 
     - Also, a modern coal plant is still cleaner per energy produced than a car.  TheWraith   Apr-24-08 01:05 PM   #29 
     - Not only that...  sendero   Apr-24-08 05:27 PM   #59 
  - Mass transit is incomparably better.  mainegreen   Apr-24-08 12:31 PM   #3 
  - I'm sure it is.  GaYellowDawg   Apr-24-08 12:36 PM   #6 
  - Bus.  mainegreen   Apr-24-08 12:38 PM   #7 
  - *smacks forehead* Duh. nm  GaYellowDawg   Apr-24-08 12:41 PM   #12 
  - New infrastructure means new jobs.  Radical Activist   Apr-24-08 12:55 PM   #22 
  - While I agree with you, that only works in areas where there is mass transit.  Herdin_Cats   Apr-24-08 12:42 PM   #13 
     - I mean implementing it is a big part of the solution.  mainegreen   Apr-24-08 12:46 PM   #17 
        - it already exists where it's feasible.  QuestionAll   Apr-24-08 12:57 PM   #24 
           - Untrue.  mainegreen   Apr-24-08 01:07 PM   #32 
           - if there was enough demand to support it, it would be there.  QuestionAll   Apr-24-08 01:16 PM   #37 
           - As gas goes up,  mainegreen   Apr-24-08 03:06 PM   #48 
              - extremely doubtful.  QuestionAll   Apr-24-08 04:56 PM   #57 
           - My parents remember them in our t own.  Radical Activist   Apr-24-08 01:37 PM   #43 
           - Mass transit doesn't work in a rural setting.  TheWraith   Apr-24-08 01:42 PM   #46 
              - There's a world of difference between rural and wilderness.  mainegreen   Apr-24-08 03:05 PM   #47 
           - I think it would be feasible on a small scale where I live.  Herdin_Cats   Apr-24-08 01:35 PM   #42 
  - There Are Many Answers...Not Just One  KharmaTrain   Apr-24-08 12:36 PM   #5 
  - That makes plenty of sense.  GaYellowDawg   Apr-24-08 12:40 PM   #11 
  - Liquid hydrogen presents a number of difficulties  IAmJacksSmirkingRevenge   Apr-24-08 03:34 PM   #53 
     - Any Thoughts About Methane?  KharmaTrain   Apr-24-08 06:41 PM   #61 
  - I watched a "NOVA" program the other night on PBS. They were  napi21   Apr-24-08 12:39 PM   #8 
  - Carbon fiber will be an absolute must in an electric car  IAmJacksSmirkingRevenge   Apr-24-08 03:36 PM   #54 
     - tehy should try to find a way to make carbon fiber using sequestered co2.  QuestionAll   Apr-24-08 04:58 PM   #58 
     - Yes, they explained that on that show. They did say that the guy who invented  napi21   Apr-24-08 06:30 PM   #60 
  - Not if coal power plants are the fuel source. Or nuclear.  Herdin_Cats   Apr-24-08 12:40 PM   #9 
  - 200 mile electric vehicles would help  ItNerd4life   Apr-24-08 12:40 PM   #10 
  - I plan to do a combination of an electric car + grid-tied photovoltaic array on my house  slackmaster   Apr-24-08 12:43 PM   #14 
  - Even the power company will love you for that.  Radical Activist   Apr-24-08 12:57 PM   #23 
  - we looked into doing that as well- but the costs were/are just too high...  QuestionAll   Apr-24-08 12:59 PM   #25 
  - Yes that is what I'd like to do as well  Indenturedebtor   Apr-24-08 01:02 PM   #26 
  - the problem in this.. the POWER still has to come from somewhere  SoCalDem   Apr-24-08 12:43 PM   #15 
  - Electric cars powered by coal still have lower total emissions than  Radical Activist   Apr-24-08 12:54 PM   #21 
  - Also, you don't have to use coal. NT  baby_mouse   Apr-24-08 01:04 PM   #28 
  - solar cells? overnight excess capacity that is being unused?  LSK   Apr-24-08 01:08 PM   #33 
     - Why you ninny!!  SoCalDem   Apr-24-08 01:12 PM   #34 
        - and Reagan ripped solar cells off the White House roof  LSK   Apr-24-08 01:14 PM   #36 
           - and was PROUD of it too  SoCalDem   Apr-24-08 01:18 PM   #38 
  - Q: what cars are really expensive and not terribly useful?  endarkenment   Apr-24-08 12:51 PM   #19 
  - Plug-in hybrids can go more than 200 miles.  Radical Activist   Apr-24-08 12:52 PM   #20 
  - Yes, they are .  TheWraith   Apr-24-08 01:03 PM   #27 
  - They are not very efficient, and I don't see how they will completely replace internal combustion...  Solon   Apr-24-08 01:06 PM   #30 
  - Actually they are INCREDIBLY efficient.  TheWraith   Apr-24-08 01:39 PM   #45 
  - they can replace a lot of cars for commuters who drive less than 50 miles per day  LSK   Apr-24-08 01:07 PM   #31 
  - Thom Hartmann is talking about this right now  LSK   Apr-24-08 01:13 PM   #35 
  - The conclusion I have reached is electrification, both personal and freight  loindelrio   Apr-24-08 01:26 PM   #39 
  - Here's a do-it-yourself diesel/electric hybrid that gets over 200 miles per gallon  aint_no_life_nowhere   Apr-24-08 01:32 PM   #40 
  - Locomotives are diesel electric  madokie   Apr-24-08 01:35 PM   #41 
  - If I am not mistaken these are diesel electric  harun   Apr-24-08 03:12 PM   #49 
     - yep sure are  madokie   Apr-24-08 04:55 PM   #56 
  - PArt of the answer-- what is needed is energy diversity...  JCMach1   Apr-24-08 01:39 PM   #44 
  - What about  nathan hale   Apr-24-08 03:16 PM   #50 
  - I believe that all electric cars should be sold with an optional solar panel charging kit. nt  Javaman   Apr-24-08 03:22 PM   #51 
  - They can be for some people under some conditions..  Fumesucker   Apr-24-08 03:29 PM   #52 
  - Yes  jpljr77   Apr-24-08 03:55 PM   #55 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC