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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
Jonathan50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-01-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. My reply
The government has not made constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Name them if you disagree. Flags are seen everywhere, but they're put there by private citizens. The government flags you see have always been there.

Where in the description does it say that government puts all the flags and symbols out?


You can argue this point, but I think that it's significant to Americans that this isn't happening to Americans, but to foreign fighters. One or two exceptions does not a trend make. Also, note the lack of summary executions and assassinations.

The incarceration rate in the USA is six times that of Canada on a per capita basis. America has five percent of the world's population and twenty five percent of the world's prisoners.


The only foe that could fall into this category is "terrorists." Like the ones who took down the twin towers, bombed the Madrid trains, and the London underground and buses. Otherwise, the government has been very careful, regardless of the members' private feelings, to not blame any racial, ethnic, or religious minority, or liberals, communists, or socialists, etc...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,982270...

""I tell people don't kill all the liberals, leave enough around so we can have two on every campus; living fossils, so we will never forget what these people stood for." --Rush Limbaugh

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_I...

"President Bush expressed personal concern about Limbaugh's condition with senior staff.

"The president noted Rush Limbaugh is a national treasure," one senior White House staffer told the Drudge Report. "


4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

I don't think anyone can argue against this point.

This is entirely untrue. There are very powerful women in the government right now, and don't give me that "window-dressing" shit. Tell that to Rice, Hughes, Meyers, etc... Gender roles have not been made "more rigid." And divorce, abortion, and homosexuality have all INCREASED since this government took power.

Roe v Wade is in increasing danger of being overturned all it will take is one more conservative SCOTUS judge, "defense of marriage" initiatives and laws are common and directly aimed at homosexuals, attacks on homosexuals are still common and possibly even increasing. Moves to limit divorce are under way.

The media is neither directly nor indirectly controlled by the government, unless you include the ban on curse words on broadcast networks. Censorship is nowhere to be seen.

The censorship is indirect but there. Several of the large conglomerates are in danger of being forced to divest some subsidiaries by the FCC, which is controlled by political appointees. They fear to strongly oppose the administration since then the FCC may decide to move on divestiture. Not to mention that control over virtually all media in the US is handled by just a few major corporations all of which are conservatively biased.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

This one is unarguable.

This one is arguable because of the power of the religious right, but there hasn't been any more religious rhetoric coming out of this government than there was in the last government.

What country have you been living in for the last six years? Ever heard of the "faith based initiatives" program?

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

Conceded.

Labor power has been neither "eliminated entirely" nor "severely suppressed." Show me otherwise.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-01-21-union-me...

"WASHINGTON (AP) Long-declining union membership leveled off last year at 12.5% of the workforce, the Labor Department said Friday in a report labor leaders called encouraging.

Union membership was about a third of the workforce a half-century ago, and was one in five, 20%, in 1983, when the Labor Department started keeping such data."

I'll further point out that the nation's largest employer, Wal Mart, is virulently anti union.


The government has not promoted any hostility to higher education or academia. Professors and academics have been neither censored nor arrested. Free expression remains inviolable.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/02/19/ariz

"$500 Fines for Political Profs

To date, 2007 hasnt seen much legislative progress for measures inspired by the Academic Bill of Rights, the brainchild of David Horowitz that he says promotes diversity of thought on campuses, but that many faculty leaders believe is designed to squelch them. Bills have been introduced in nine states, according to Free Exchange on Campus, which opposes them. But with one exception, those bills havent been moving.
Related stories

The exception is Arizona, where a Senate committee on Thursday approved a bill that would go much further than the Academic Bill of Rights, and which has infuriated faculty and student leaders. The bill, whose chief sponsor is the Republican majority leader in the Senate, would ban professors at public colleges and universities, while working, from:"

The movement is nascent but there.

There is no national police force, save the FBI, which does not have "almost limitless power to enforce laws."

Black bag jobs, warrantless wiretapping, no knock raids, elimination of Habeus Corpus, repeal of Posse Comitatus, random body searches, asset forfeiture without conviction, militarization of the police. And I'll point out again that the USA has an incarceration rate six times that of Canada which is culturally and demographically not all that different from us.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

Conceded.

This is arguable, and I would argue against it if I thought it would do any good. But the fact remains that national elections are generally run by county governments, Democrats and Republicans, in each state. I do not believe that there is national coordination. Needless to say, there have been no assassinations.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010205/bugliosi

None Dare Call it Treason by Vincent Bugliosi

"In the December 12 ruling by the US Supreme Court handing the election to George Bush, the Court committed the unpardonable sin of being a knowing surrogate for the Republican Party instead of being an impartial arbiter of the law. If you doubt this, try to imagine Al Gore's and George Bush's roles being reversed and ask yourself if you can conceive of Justice Antonin Scalia and his four conservative brethren issuing an emergency order on December 9 stopping the counting of ballots (at a time when Gore's lead had shrunk to 154 votes) on the grounds that if it continued, Gore could suffer "irreparable harm," and then subsequently, on December 12, bequeathing the election to Gore on equal protection grounds. If you can, then I suppose you can also imagine seeing a man jumping away from his own shadow, Frenchmen no longer drinking wine."

By my count, that's 4 out of 14. Please respond with your thoughts.
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