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Reply #348: You fail basic logic, (insert your favorite patronizing term of endearment). [View All]

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cureautismnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-10-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #347
348. You fail basic logic, (insert your favorite patronizing term of endearment).
Edited on Thu Apr-10-08 03:42 PM by dubyadubya3
Sure it's the job of the CDC and the FDA to ensure that various medicines are safe, but that's not on point. Anti-vaxxers make the claim that thimerosal causes autism - but they haven't been able to satisfy the burden of proof, especially not since research on the subject doesn't turn up anything. FYI, according to WebMD there have been 14 studies on the topic involving millions of children - all of them came up nil for the anti-vaxxers. So far as studies that support the anti-vaxxer claim, you have Wakefield and Geier. Wakefield's study was retracted from Lancet, and he is now probably going to have his medical license revoked. Geier's studies included numerous critical flaws (see here), an ignorance of how to analyze the data, not to mention his own conflicts of interest. So far, it's not looking too good.

Again, the CDC made the claim that there was no link and THEY couldn't prove it. It's their job to back up their 2004 assertion. They didn't. Their point man, Dr. V. even said more study is needed. Yet, they closed the door because of the repercussions. 14 studies? Do you just randomly pull numbers out of a hat? First, there were "dozens," then "several," and now we are back up to 14. Amazing. Well, just maybe, your third time will be a charm. I'll leave space below for you to list all 14.
















Oh, so now it's flawed because of people moving to California for autism treatment? And, again, thimerosal was only present in trace amounts in the flu vaccine - which is not a required vaccination. There actually is new research, as I've mentioned multiple times to you now, due out this year that is a companion study to Thompson et al that looks at asd and vaccines. Want to bet what they're going to find? There are also other studies underway, but the issue is fast approaching being done to death.

Again, you are wrong. As of March 14, 2008, there are several vaccines with not-so-just traces of mercury in them. Look at the chart in Table 3. DT has 25 g/0.5 mL dose. TD has 8.3 g/0.5 mL dose. TT has 25 g/0.5 mL dose. 3 flu shots have 25 g/0.5 mL dose.

http://www.fda.gov/Cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1

You still haven't answered the question - why is mercury still in vaccines in 2008?

Thompson et al had better look at asd kids THIS TIME around if they have any hope of regaining a semblance of credibility. I'm sure they could receive pointers from Dr. V about how to cherry-pick their data to reach their predetermined conclusion. Naturally, they'll have to manipulate the data much harder though to get beyond the neutral result.

Yes, those stupid pediatricians with all their fancy book learning and silly white coats. What do they know about medicine? Perhaps you should educate them with your Google-fu.

Yes, I hope they do receive a common sense epiphany that shooting a poison into a child is NOT a good idea.

Oh, teh poison!!1! As I'm sure you know (or perhaps you don't), the dose makes the poison. You would think that if thimerosal has been removed (or is only present in trace amounts) that autism rates would decrease. Have autism rates been declining?

The "trace amounts" argument is nonsense. Poison is poison. Why put it into kids if it's not necessary. WHY, WHY, WHY...?

"When you get the reporters and vaccine manufacturers to admit that theyre using mercury, they will often use the term trace amounts. How much thimerosal in a vaccine is a trace amount? "A common myth is that thimerosal is added to vaccines in 'trace' amounts," says Mike Wagnitz, a senior chemist at the University of Wisconsin, "The concentration of mercury in a multi-dose flu vaccine vial is 50,000 parts per billion. To put this in perspective, drinking water cannot exceed 2 parts per billion of mercury, and waste is considered hazardous if it has only 200 parts per billion. Is it really safe then to inject pregnant women, newborns, and infants with levels of mercury 250 times higher than what is legally classified as hazardous waste?"

There is also no mention of the quick and devastating counter to this report put out by the The National Autism Association (NAA), which is pointing out flaws in the study in a press release, and believes the authors used data too narrowly to make such sweeping conclusions. The authors are overlooking a number of confounding factors.

"To make such sweeping conclusions regarding thimerosal, all mercury and aluminum would have to have been removed from vaccines and recalled immediately, including pre- and post-natal flu shots," says NAA board chair Claire Bothwell. The NAA press release goes on to state, ..Increasing pressure upon pregnant women and young children to receive annual flu shots has further muddied the waters in determining vaccine mercury exposure levels in recent years. Most flu shots still contain 25 micrograms of mercury, an amount the Environmental Protection Agency considers safe only for adults weighing over 550 lbs.


http://nationalwriterssyndicate.com/content/view/341/2/
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  -Autism, vaccines, recovery from autism, lies of the media truedelphi  Apr-02-08 12:10 PM   #0 
  - Oh, for cripes sake.  Warpy   Apr-02-08 12:16 PM   #1 
  - Heh heh heh  progressoid   Apr-02-08 03:08 PM   #11 
  - I agree  Johonny   Apr-02-08 04:43 PM   #19 
  - We have a pandemic of children with brain disorders. 1 in 6 are so afflicted  AikidoSoul   Apr-04-08 05:38 PM   #228 
     - i am really tired of mindless self righteous arrogance assholes like the first 3 to reply, i am  sam sarrha   Apr-05-08 06:08 PM   #291 
     - RIGHT ON RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  FitzmasAgain   Apr-08-08 04:53 PM   #341 
  - The flu kills more children than all other "diseases" we vax against combined  mzmolly   Apr-02-08 06:08 PM   #29 
  - Yeah, we tend not to see certain fatal childhood illnesses anymore because we vaccinate against them  varkam   Apr-02-08 10:26 PM   #46 
  - Sorry Varkam, I've gone back decades and looked at the stats.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 12:15 AM   #51 
  - Do those fingers feel good in your ears?  varkam   Apr-03-08 12:36 AM   #53 
     - You'd have to look in the mirror  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 12:52 AM   #57 
        - Well I'm rubber and you're glue.  varkam   Apr-03-08 01:05 AM   #58 
           - I haven't checked into the health forum as of late.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 01:14 AM   #61 
  - But we see a tremendous increase in brain illnesses  AikidoSoul   Apr-04-08 05:48 PM   #231 
  - No we don't.  varkam   Apr-05-08 05:39 PM   #282 
  - Trading those diseases and replacing them with brain diseases  AikidoSoul   Apr-04-08 05:58 PM   #232 
  - As far as I am aware...  varkam   Apr-05-08 05:41 PM   #283 
  - And if you live in the U.S. your kid has a much better chance of getting autism  AikidoSoul   Apr-04-08 06:08 PM   #234 
  - I don't see vaccines mentioned there  lizerdbits   Apr-04-08 09:31 PM   #240 
  - Mercury is a neurotoxin. Ethylmercury is a neurotoxin. So is aluminum  AikidoSoul   Apr-05-08 12:05 PM   #255 
     - Just about anything will be toxic in a high enough dose  lizerdbits   Apr-05-08 05:30 PM   # 
     - Yes. We're talking micrograms, here.  varkam   Apr-05-08 05:46 PM   #284 
        - its different in a developing brain, naysayer, the toxins are "Incorporated" into the neurological  sam sarrha   Apr-07-08 07:49 AM   #332 
     - tons of Uranium/mercury.. are dumped by the coal fire power plants.>>Link>>  sam sarrha   Apr-05-08 06:28 PM   #293 
  - On the contrary  ovidsen   Apr-05-08 05:29 PM   #278 
     - Autism has increased dramatically  AikidoSoul   Apr-05-08 09:07 PM   #307 
        - EXACTLY!! We're controlled by corporations!  FitzmasAgain   Apr-08-08 05:02 PM   #343 
  - Well, look up the origins of "Polio"  FitzmasAgain   Apr-08-08 04:56 PM   #342 
  - More clever wording,.,.  sendero   Apr-12-08 06:47 AM   #360 
  - Were vaccines "wonderful" for these families?  dubyadubya3   Apr-02-08 08:26 PM   #40 
  - Want to guess how many deaths we'd have without vaccines? eom  varkam   Apr-05-08 05:47 PM   #285 
     - You don't need to guess the children ALREADY dead from vaccines.  dubyadubya3   Apr-05-08 07:22 PM   #300 
  - I think the whole anti-immunizations started  DadOf2LittleAngels   Apr-03-08 12:33 AM   #52 
  - It's no fun sticking babies  Warpy   Apr-03-08 08:30 AM   #77 
  - Is it already time for the next round of this anti-vaccine bullshit?  Tesha   Apr-03-08 07:15 AM   #72 
  - It's always time for antivax bullshit  Warpy   Apr-03-08 08:21 AM   #73 
     - Indeed.  Tesha   Apr-03-08 08:29 AM   #76 
     - My Great Grandmother had 11 siblings  SteelPenguin   Apr-04-08 12:30 PM   #207 
     - this is what gets me. what was out there. yes i have memory. today, i am realizing what IS out  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 11:05 PM   #246 
     - You have no clue the number of brain injured children  AikidoSoul   Apr-04-08 06:01 PM   #233 
  - Vaccines may be much more dangerous for some genetically susceptible people.  pnwmom   Apr-03-08 09:40 PM   #173 
  - With our dysfunctional FDA and medical system, I don't know how ANYONE can trust even a flu shot.  Bonobo   Apr-02-08 12:16 PM   #2 
  - I've never gotten a flu shot - no way! "maybe" when I am 80  katty   Apr-02-08 03:19 PM   #13 
  - I get them every year. I am a transplant and have no choice.  JeanGrey   Apr-03-08 05:31 PM   #132 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-02-08 04:48 PM   #21 
  - Idiot?  mzmolly   Apr-02-08 06:12 PM   #30 
     - Someone called me an idiot for not injecting an unknown substance into my kid's bodies?  Bonobo   Apr-02-08 08:43 PM   #41 
        - 46, never had flu. two kids 13 and 10 never had flu.  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 12:24 PM   #205 
  - The one time in my life I had a flu shot I was sicker than EVER before  Cronus Protagonist   Apr-03-08 12:42 PM   #94 
  - Thank you for this. It's a good article. nt/  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-02-08 12:18 PM   #3 
  - This story shows what can be done when parents have resources  proud2Blib   Apr-02-08 12:24 PM   #4 
  - One of my beliefs abt national single payer  truedelphi   Apr-02-08 12:37 PM   #6 
  - cosmetics are regulated  Lance_Boyle   Apr-02-08 02:39 PM   #10 
     - When you go to that page and look up the substances that are prohibited  truedelphi   Apr-02-08 07:21 PM   #35 
  - Insurance typically won't cover the conventional therapies, either, like  Ilsa   Apr-03-08 03:48 PM   #121 
  - Glad to see Evan recovered. Gladder to see Evan has parents with a voice...  Junkdrawer   Apr-02-08 12:26 PM   #5 
  - Argh.  Feron   Apr-02-08 01:47 PM   #7 
  - Way'at Feron!  KamaAina   Apr-02-08 02:12 PM   #9 
  - Did you read the article?  mzmolly   Apr-02-08 06:16 PM   #31 
  - very inspiring  itsjustme   Apr-02-08 01:57 PM   #8 
  - Wow! 1 in 58 in England/Ireland?!!! That is insane!  TheGoldenRule   Apr-02-08 03:11 PM   #12 
  - IF...repeat...IF..thimeresol were proven to be the cause...  Junkdrawer   Apr-02-08 03:33 PM   #15 
  - It's been proven over and over again ---  defendandprotect   Apr-03-08 01:10 AM   #59 
  - And it's been proved over and over again...  LeftishBrit   Apr-03-08 02:39 AM   #63 
     - Thermerisol was put into the vaccines simply as a PERSERVATIVE . . .  defendandprotect   Apr-03-08 12:26 PM   #88 
     - And nowadays they don't put the mercury in most vaccines in most places...  LeftishBrit   Apr-03-08 03:11 PM   #111 
        - i bet you will also note the increase in mercury in fish and our other foods.  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 12:27 PM   #206 
           - Actually, I suspect that mercury and other pollutants in food...  LeftishBrit   Apr-04-08 03:17 PM   #220 
              - still at that you pit one child against another. still because it benefits another  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 03:55 PM   #221 
                 - I know we are all important..  LeftishBrit   Apr-05-08 02:28 AM   #249 
     - that is no excuse not to fix the problem.. just because it may cost more  sam sarrha   Apr-07-08 07:51 AM   #333 
        - No, but it's a reason not to reject vaccines as such  LeftishBrit   Apr-08-08 05:18 PM   #344 
  - Thimerosal isn't used in most vaccines in the UK...  LeftishBrit   Apr-03-08 02:49 AM   #65 
     - I bet it's something else in the modern environment:  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-03-08 08:56 AM   #79 
        - Everybody discourages trying to find environmental patterns  dmesg   Apr-07-08 07:57 AM   #334 
  - Yes, that figure caught my eye, too.  KamaAina   Apr-02-08 03:36 PM   #16 
  - That quote represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what autism is.  varkam   Apr-02-08 05:45 PM   #26 
  - Tell that to the millions of families with ADULTS still suffering from autism. n/t  pnwmom   Apr-03-08 11:12 PM   #181 
  - Untrue. This was a false statement in the media.  LeftishBrit   Apr-03-08 02:45 AM   #64 
     - YES! That's what I said in my post below  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-03-08 09:05 AM   #80 
     - Simon Baron-Cohen...  SidDithers   Apr-03-08 11:16 AM   #86 
        - Yes, he is his brother (n/t)  mitchum   Apr-03-08 01:33 PM   #103 
        - Actually Simon Baron-Cohen is Sacha's cousin  KamaAina   Apr-03-08 01:34 PM   #104 
        - Yes, they are cousins.  LeftishBrit   Apr-03-08 02:55 PM   #108 
  - While I greatly admire McCarthy's devotion to her child's situation.  Midlodemocrat   Apr-02-08 03:29 PM   #14 
  - McCarthy avoided the word "Cured" - she used the word "Recovery"  truedelphi   Apr-02-08 07:00 PM   #33 
  - Only one thing to say  GoneOffShore   Apr-02-08 03:55 PM   #17 
  - Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey gave my kids autism.  Bornaginhooligan   Apr-02-08 04:08 PM   #18 
  - There's no link between thimerosal and autism.  varkam   Apr-02-08 04:46 PM   #20 
  - Not everyone would agree...  Junkdrawer   Apr-02-08 05:06 PM   #23 
  - 1. RFK is not a scientist  varkam   Apr-02-08 05:23 PM   #24 
     - "There have been no epidemiological studies that have found any connection between thimerosal and  mzmolly   Apr-02-08 07:55 PM   #36 
        - Show me.  varkam   Apr-02-08 08:24 PM   #38 
           - You said there were NO studies. Then you moved the goal posts.  mzmolly   Apr-02-08 09:02 PM   #42 
              - Oh, so studies with significant flaws meet your rigorous standards for data?  varkam   Apr-02-08 09:18 PM   #44 
                 - Again, not what you said. Every study can be picked apart by those with an agenda.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 12:12 AM   #50 
                    - You haven't shown me anything.  varkam   Apr-03-08 12:39 AM   #56 
                       - Sure there are.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 01:13 AM   #60 
                          - Being that I don't have time...  varkam   Apr-03-08 01:40 AM   #62 
                             - You keep mentioning the Geier study and asserting it does not exist at the same time.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 08:24 AM   #74 
                                - Just glancing through it quickly...  varkam   Apr-03-08 04:05 PM   #127 
                                   - Quickly - Here is where you said there were no such studies.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 05:24 PM   #130 
                                      - Hoo boy...  varkam   Apr-03-08 09:25 PM   #169 
                                         - You said there were no epi. studies demonstrating a connection.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 11:08 PM   #178 
                                            - Are you defending the Geier's work in this area?  varkam   Apr-04-08 10:15 AM   #199 
                                               - Yes, I'm defending Geier.  mzmolly   Apr-04-08 12:47 PM   #208 
                                                  - Feds study the issue...  varkam   Apr-04-08 09:03 PM   #238 
                                                  - The epi evidence again is a he said she said.  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 02:02 PM   #259 
                                                  - It's not a he said she said when it comes to the science.  varkam   Apr-05-08 05:16 PM   #274 
                                                  - So I hear!  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 05:34 PM   #280 
                                                  - I would've edited, but I was too late: it also appears that there is a major conflict of interest...  varkam   Apr-05-08 01:27 AM   #248 
                                                  - Will you defend the IOM's Fineberg, Dr. McCormick, and Dr. Stratton?  dubyadubya3   Apr-05-08 09:35 AM   #251 
                                                  - Tu quoque.  varkam   Apr-05-08 04:52 PM   #268 
                                                  - Thanks, Pot. Kettle will put you down for a No.  dubyadubya3   Apr-05-08 05:56 PM   #287 
                                                  - Unfortunately,  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 01:59 PM   #258 
                                                  - And you don't think the enormous conflict of interest that the Geiers have...  varkam   Apr-05-08 04:56 PM   #269 
                                                  - No,  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 05:18 PM   #275 
                                                  - Improper appeal to authority.  varkam   Apr-05-08 05:25 PM   #277 
                                                  - Conflicts of interest surrounding the issue of vaccination are not limited to Geier,  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 05:30 PM   #279 
                                                  - Tu quoque.  varkam   Apr-05-08 05:37 PM   #281 
                                                  - I'm sorry that you take issue with Mr. Geier. As I've said, the NIH found him credible  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 05:53 PM   #286 
                                                  - And, yet again, improper appeal to authority.  varkam   Apr-05-08 05:59 PM   #288 
                                                  - He's testified in over 100 cases,  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 06:06 PM   #290 
                                                  - Noooo, that's not what they ruled.  varkam   Apr-05-08 06:17 PM   #292 
                                                  - No vaccines, no autism  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 06:29 PM   #294 
                                                  - That MtD only occurs in a small subset...  varkam   Apr-05-08 06:36 PM   #296 
                                                  - That doesn't mean that this MtD is the only DNA issue that may  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 06:47 PM   #297 
                                                  - You do love those appeals to authority, don't you?  varkam   Apr-05-08 07:14 PM   #298 
                                                  - You merely regurgitated what the "authorities" on the court claimed.  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 07:40 PM   #301 
                                                  - I wasn't appealing to authority.  varkam   Apr-05-08 10:09 PM   #312 
                                                  - Who are YOU appealing to? Yourself? What are your credentials?  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 10:41 PM   #314 
                                                  - I was just going on the court transcript and what I know about VICP.  varkam   Apr-05-08 10:56 PM   #315 
                                                  - You clarified after I showed you that your  mzmolly   Apr-06-08 12:14 PM   #323 
                                                  - I assumed that it would be understood I was talking about real science.  varkam   Apr-06-08 12:27 PM   #324 
                                                  - Geier is a "real" scientist. Must be why the NIH hired him as well as John's Hopkins?  mzmolly   Apr-06-08 02:15 PM   #326 
                                                  - You keep talking..  sendero   Apr-12-08 07:05 AM   #361 
                                                  - innuendo -- won't do. Support the statement or don't say it  AikidoSoul   Apr-05-08 09:32 PM   #308 
  - Remember Varkam, our federal vaccine court just conceeded that there is a link.  mzmolly   Apr-02-08 06:26 PM   #32 
  - You can twist it all you want to, but it still doesn't mean you're telling the truth.  varkam   Apr-02-08 08:23 PM   #37 
  - There is no "further" in vaccine court Varkam.  mzmolly   Apr-02-08 09:04 PM   #43 
  - "...Parse words and get into semantics on behalf of big pharma all you like..."  varkam   Apr-02-08 09:23 PM   #45 
  - That's who you are advocating for, so as I've also said  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 12:10 AM   #49 
     - I just happen to care about science.  varkam   Apr-03-08 12:38 AM   #54 
        - If you cared about science I would not be offended.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 08:26 AM   #75 
           - That's disingenious.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 03:08 PM   #110 
              - I'm glad he  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 03:42 PM   #118 
                 - Awwww, whassa matter?  varkam   Apr-03-08 04:07 PM   #128 
                 - Sure,  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 04:56 PM   #129 
                 - Just a fan of the truth.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 05:35 PM   #133 
                    - Well then, stop reading the thread.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 05:37 PM   #135 
                    - How about I just stop reading the people who don't back their assertions with valid studies?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 05:43 PM   #138 
                       - How bout you suspend critical thinking  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 06:08 PM   #140 
                          - Nice link in that post, did you actually try it or just make it up?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 06:18 PM   #141 
                             - Not sure what you mean.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 06:20 PM   #143 
                                - You didn't write post #127 and your link to the studies in your post #130 doesn't work.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 06:35 PM   #146 
                                   - Excuse me my reply to post 127 which is post #130 and I just clicked the link again.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 06:45 PM   #147 
                                      - This is what happens when you click your link in several different browsers.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 06:57 PM   #149 
                                      - There's an extra space in her aforementioned link.  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 07:24 PM   #154 
                                      - Some Interesting Stuff There  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 11:20 PM   #183 
                                      - What's more interesting is how that "study" came about.  dubyadubya3   Apr-04-08 12:17 AM   #186 
                                      - Ok so the only reliable studies are the ones the support your argument.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-04-08 12:23 AM   #187 
                                      - Did you even read the particular article that Molly referenced?  dubyadubya3   Apr-04-08 06:38 AM   #196 
                                      - Dr. Simpson could play the CDC role of Dick Cheney.  dubyadubya3   Apr-04-08 08:59 AM   #198 
                                      - Eli Lilly's take on Thimerosal.  dubyadubya3   Apr-04-08 10:23 AM   #203 
                                      - You do realize that you're posing stuff from '99, right?  varkam   Apr-04-08 09:39 PM   #241 
                                      - Of course. You have evidence that Eli Lilly's Position has changed?  dubyadubya3   Apr-04-08 10:01 PM   #243 
                                      - I don't know. I'm not an Eli Lilly spokesperson, despite what you may think.  varkam   Apr-04-08 10:22 PM   #244 
                                      - It's a Material Safety Data Sheet.  dubyadubya3   Apr-04-08 11:04 PM   #245 
                                      - And again, it's ten years old.  varkam   Apr-04-08 11:22 PM   #247 
                                      - Lots of more recent MSDS's at the links below.  dubyadubya3   Apr-05-08 07:28 AM   #250 
                                      - You offer testimonials as scientific evidence?  varkam   Apr-05-08 04:49 PM   #267 
                                      - Reports of lung cancer after smoking were anecdotal at first, too.  dubyadubya3   Apr-05-08 06:30 PM   #295 
                                      - Yeah? Lung cancer has nothing to with this.  varkam   Apr-05-08 07:18 PM   #299 
                                      - It's analogous to a road once traveled.  dubyadubya3   Apr-05-08 08:05 PM   #302 
                                      - Ug.  varkam   Apr-05-08 10:04 PM   #311 
                                      - Dozens? You have more than 12 studies disproving a link since 2004?  dubyadubya3   Apr-06-08 01:13 AM   #321 
                                      - Yup. Sure are.  varkam   Apr-06-08 01:57 PM   #325 
                                      - Where? I read one. And it was a REVIEW. That's not "proof."  dubyadubya3   Apr-06-08 02:42 PM   #328 
                                      - I really find it amusing that...  varkam   Apr-06-08 09:51 PM   #329 
                                      - Ha, I knew you couldn't. eom  dubyadubya3   Apr-07-08 04:06 AM   #331 
                                      - They're all there in the references of the study I pointed you to.  varkam   Apr-07-08 12:38 PM   #335 
                                      - No they're not and they only reviewed up to 2004.  dubyadubya3   Apr-07-08 03:33 PM   #336 
                                      - They didn't toss the Geier studies because they disagreed.  varkam   Apr-07-08 07:47 PM   #337 
                                      - Geier forced a corrigendum from these lying hacks.  dubyadubya3   Apr-07-08 08:02 PM   #338 
                                      - That's a fairly minor point. It has nothing to do with this:  varkam   Apr-07-08 08:16 PM   #339 
                                      - I see. Your hyperbole of "dozens" is now downsized to "several."  dubyadubya3   Apr-08-08 04:32 PM   #340 
                                      - And you have cited zero credible studies, period.  varkam   Apr-08-08 10:38 PM   #345 
                                      - The burden falls on the CDC to prove their case.  dubyadubya3   Apr-09-08 04:20 PM   #346 
                                      - It's basic logic, bud.  varkam   Apr-09-08 09:58 PM   #347 
                                      - You fail basic logic, (insert your favorite patronizing term of endearment).  dubyadubya3   Apr-10-08 03:41 PM   #348 
                                      - .  varkam   Apr-10-08 04:14 PM   #349 
                                      - "." Is that your response as to why Mercury is STILL in Shots for Children?  dubyadubya3   Apr-10-08 05:24 PM   #350 
                                      - My, the hysterics!  varkam   Apr-10-08 05:38 PM   #351 
                                      - I'll ask again then, why is ANY mercury still in vaccines?  dubyadubya3   Apr-10-08 06:59 PM   #352 
                                      - Oy...  varkam   Apr-10-08 11:34 PM   #353 
                                      - Egad. We actually agree on something.  dubyadubya3   Apr-11-08 03:34 PM   #355 
                                      - There's a mighty big difference between mercury poisioning and autism  varkam   Apr-11-08 05:49 PM   #356 
                                      - There are similarities.  dubyadubya3   Apr-11-08 06:46 PM   #357 
                                      - It never ends with you.  varkam   Apr-11-08 09:22 PM   #358 
                                      - Nor apparently you.  dubyadubya3   Apr-12-08 06:44 AM   #359 
                                      - Again, do you have a citation?  varkam   Apr-12-08 11:06 PM   #362 
                                      - See below.  dubyadubya3   Apr-13-08 09:23 AM   #363 
                                      - Again,  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 07:51 PM   #158 
                                      - Link didn't work for me, either.  varkam   Apr-03-08 09:25 PM   #170 
                    - And you're seeking THAT from the Bush Administration's CDC?!!!!  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 06:31 PM   #144 
  - The shoe most definitely fits.  TheGoldenRule   Apr-04-08 02:32 PM   #215 
  - That case is incredibly important. No one has been arguing that thimerosal  pnwmom   Apr-03-08 11:18 PM   #182 
  - but wasn't that due to immune response, not thimerosol? nt  JoeIsOneOfUs   Apr-03-08 03:51 PM   #122 
  - The concession was that vaccination triggered autism. The parents, a neurolgist and an RN  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 06:33 PM   #145 
     - Wrong again.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 07:00 PM   #151 
     - YOU'RE wrong  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 07:58 PM   #159 
     - Yes, where is the "Could Not Rule Out" part?  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 08:15 PM   #163 
     - Ya got me!  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 08:20 PM   #165 
        - You betcha. I wish they'd go ahead and lay their cards on the table.  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 09:08 PM   #168 
           - Thanks DD.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 11:09 PM   #179 
           - Sorry I was playing soccer.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 11:40 PM   #184 
           - Thanks, Molly.  dubyadubya3   Apr-04-08 07:02 AM   #197 
           - Agree with you 100%  TheGoldenRule   Apr-04-08 02:35 PM   #216 
           - The legal system has failed to prevent subcliinical developmental toxicity  AikidoSoul   Apr-05-08 02:33 PM   #261 
     - But that doesn't exactly say that vaccines cause autism, now does it?  varkam   Apr-03-08 09:26 PM   #171 
        - It says that vaccines contributed  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 10:32 PM   #176 
        - It said...  varkam   Apr-04-08 10:18 AM   #200 
           - No one has claimed that vaccines are solely responsible for autism.  mzmolly   Apr-04-08 01:18 PM   #213 
        - Sure it does. Vaccines were the spark that lit the ASD fuse.  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 11:03 PM   #177 
        - "BTW, Varkam, enlighten us please. Who's YOUR sugar daddy?"  varkam   Apr-04-08 10:19 AM   #201 
           - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Apr-04-08 10:43 AM   #204 
        - Right. Just like cigarettes don't cause cancer.  pnwmom   Apr-04-08 01:29 AM   #195 
           - See post above. eom  varkam   Apr-04-08 10:19 AM   #202 
     - If the vaccine "aggravated" another stressor, then it was itself an additional  pnwmom   Apr-04-08 01:25 AM   #194 
     - then that's belief, not science. nt  JoeIsOneOfUs   Apr-03-08 07:39 PM   #155 
        - It's not a belief,  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 08:00 PM   #160 
  - That's not what the court said.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 06:53 PM   #148 
     - that's right  JoeIsOneOfUs   Apr-03-08 07:47 PM   #157 
     - Exactly.  varkam   Apr-03-08 09:29 PM   #172 
     - Nope! Once again -  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 11:11 PM   #180 
  - Correct. And saying there is won't make it so.  Midlodemocrat   Apr-03-08 08:48 AM   #78 
  - That's a debatable assertion.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 09:11 AM   #81 
     - It's been proven over and over.  Midlodemocrat   Apr-03-08 09:20 AM   #82 
        - No it hasn't. It was recently proven in "vaccine court" that vaccines  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 02:09 PM   #105 
        - but again it's the immune response, not the preservative  JoeIsOneOfUs   Apr-03-08 03:52 PM   #123 
        - The immune system also responds to mercury and some feel cases are declining.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 05:28 PM   #131 
           - Who had the vaccine the mother or the child?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 07:15 PM   #152 
           - You have to ask?  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 08:10 PM   #162 
              - This is what your link says, so yes I have to ask.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 11:45 PM   #185 
           - Mercury's primary risk is neurotoxicity.  JoeIsOneOfUs   Apr-03-08 07:44 PM   #156 
              - Primary risk, perhaps.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 08:09 PM   #161 
                 - and this post has nothing to do with autism  JoeIsOneOfUs   Apr-03-08 08:28 PM   #166 
                 - Of course it does.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 08:30 PM   #167 
                 - Thimerosal also has a half life of about 1/10 of Methyl Mercury.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-04-08 12:36 AM   #189 
                    - In the blood,  mzmolly   Apr-04-08 12:50 PM   #209 
                       - Got it.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-05-08 04:30 PM   #263 
                          - Not to compare methyl and ethyl mercury  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 04:36 PM   #266 
                             - Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-05-08 04:59 PM   #270 
                                - Yes, it's always good to take better care of our monkeys  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 05:04 PM   #271 
                                   - You were the one that compared the two, not me.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-05-08 05:12 PM   #273 
                                      - A leading scientist  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 05:18 PM   #276 
                                         - Thimerosal was removed from routine childhood vaccines in 2001.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-05-08 08:06 PM   #303 
                                            - No it wasn't.  mzmolly   Apr-05-08 08:12 PM   #304 
                                            - All routine pediatric vaccines.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-05-08 08:36 PM   #305 
                                            - False. My child received thimerosal in 2003 AND 2004.  dubyadubya3   Apr-06-08 07:12 AM   #322 
        - That's a little better but still not quite correct.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 07:21 PM   #153 
        - Enzyme deficiency? Everyone is different in this  AikidoSoul   Apr-04-08 06:26 PM   #236 
        - Further, consider the unbelievably huge spectrum of autism-  BullGooseLoony   Apr-06-08 12:37 AM   #320 
  - The vaccine court awarded damages because they acknowledged that  pnwmom   Apr-03-08 09:50 PM   #174 
     - Thanks for your voice of reason.  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 10:22 PM   #175 
     - I agree with you.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-04-08 12:33 AM   #188 
        - But vaccines might TRIGGER autism symptoms in people  pnwmom   Apr-04-08 01:11 AM   #190 
           - Just like SIDS, hypertension and a ton of other things.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-05-08 04:34 PM   #265 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Apr-02-08 04:50 PM   #22 
  - That gambit grows old...  Junkdrawer   Apr-02-08 05:45 PM   #27 
  - There is no link between vaccines and autism  alarimer   Apr-02-08 05:34 PM   #25 
  - I think you need to read the responses in this thread.  mzmolly   Apr-04-08 12:57 PM   #211 
  - Right TD some still contain trace amounts of thimerosal and the MMR vaccine may provide a different  mzmolly   Apr-02-08 06:06 PM   #28 
  - Interesting that when someone like Dan Olmstead goes and  truedelphi   Apr-02-08 07:18 PM   #34 
  - Not exactly correct  lizerdbits   Apr-02-08 08:26 PM   #39 
  - Thanks for that dissection  truedelphi   Apr-03-08 12:30 PM   #90 
  - There were no LIVING children with Autism  comtec   Apr-03-08 03:35 AM   #66 
     - autism is not mental retardation  RainDog   Apr-03-08 07:06 AM   #71 
     - I understand there are many levels of autism  comtec   Apr-03-08 10:17 AM   #84 
        - Also, there isn't any way to determine if a child  truedelphi   Apr-03-08 12:23 PM   #87 
        - The problem is, we don't know HOW oblivious an extremely  Ilsa   Apr-04-08 05:27 PM   #227 
     - Woefully misinformed.  Midlodemocrat   Apr-03-08 09:32 AM   #83 
     - Are you fucking kidding me? Yours is the most ignorant post I've seen to date on this subject.  TheGoldenRule   Apr-04-08 01:18 AM   #192 
  - CNN isn't the media?...nt  SidDithers   Apr-02-08 10:30 PM   #47 
  - Rockefeller's Megapharms have operatives everywhere  crankychatter   Apr-02-08 11:14 PM   #48 
  - Ya think?  Junkdrawer   Apr-03-08 05:55 AM   #67 
  - I'm sorry, but your whole post is garbage.  BullGooseLoony   Apr-03-08 12:39 AM   #55 
  - I see...a sudden shift in the genetic makeup of humans...  Junkdrawer   Apr-03-08 06:05 AM   #68 
  - Read my posts above about the changes in diagnostic categories  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-03-08 11:12 AM   #85 
     - Again, if it was purely a genetic response, then in a case of one identical twin having it,  truedelphi   Apr-03-08 12:31 PM   #92 
        - The Congressional Record from 2003 states...  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 01:15 PM   #97 
        - Thank you very much for that citation!! n/t  truedelphi   Apr-03-08 01:30 PM   #101 
        - So testimony before Congress is always true???  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 03:14 PM   #112 
           - Pssst....  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 03:45 PM   #119 
              - When the Powers that Be report junk science as scientific fact  truedelphi   Apr-04-08 01:13 PM   #212 
        - That's not a response to my posts, and is Sen. Dan Burton  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-03-08 02:52 PM   #107 
        - If an identical twin has autism...  LeftishBrit   Apr-03-08 03:08 PM   #109 
  - Now autism definitely has a genetic factor but there is also  truedelphi   Apr-03-08 12:27 PM   #89 
  - Because that's the only difference right.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 03:19 PM   #113 
  - Many genetic conditions exist only as a potential disease, until  pnwmom   Apr-04-08 01:18 AM   #193 
  - Great googly moogly, we are taking medical advice from Jenny McCarthy?  AngryAmish   Apr-03-08 06:07 AM   #69 
  - Red alert....Autism Parent with a Voice...  Junkdrawer   Apr-03-08 06:53 AM   #70 
  - Or a member of the Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage  GoneOffShore   Apr-03-08 12:30 PM   #91 
     - The term "Junk science" is a Rovian technique to discredit  truedelphi   Apr-03-08 12:39 PM   #93 
        - I prefer the term pseudoscience. nt  uppityperson   Apr-03-08 12:50 PM   #95 
        - So years of use of vaccines going back to Jenner and Pasteur are thrown out  GoneOffShore   Apr-03-08 01:08 PM   #96 
        - Have you noticed that nowhere in this discussion  truedelphi   Apr-03-08 01:16 PM   #98 
        - As the saying goes - Whatever  GoneOffShore   Apr-03-08 01:19 PM   #99 
        - If you knew who Michael Belkin is, you  truedelphi   Apr-03-08 01:24 PM   #100 
           - Back to the smoke signals for you.  GoneOffShore   Apr-03-08 01:32 PM   #102 
        - Nice qualifier.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 03:27 PM   #115 
        - Vaccines date back to 200 B.C.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 02:15 PM   #106 
           - Jenny McCarthy is a snake oil saleman...  Bornaginhooligan   Apr-03-08 03:28 PM   #116 
              - I think you have her confused with Big Pharma. McCarthy is not selling anything.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 03:40 PM   #117 
                 - She's selling her miracle cures.  Bornaginhooligan   Apr-03-08 03:58 PM   #125 
                    - She wrote a book.  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 05:35 PM   #134 
                       - For some, I am sure, her book pages will reek of snake oil  truedelphi   Apr-04-08 01:16 AM   #191 
        - Nothing like dying children to shut down an argument.  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 03:22 PM   #114 
           - Much like the CDC does when they wish to sell vaccines on the backs of the  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 05:39 PM   #136 
           - How much vaccine does the CDC sell?  Fire_Medic_Dave   Apr-03-08 05:48 PM   #139 
              - They sell available vaccines  mzmolly   Apr-03-08 06:19 PM   #142 
           - Children with autism are not dying!  KamaAina   Apr-04-08 05:46 PM   #230 
              - i like your attitude  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 09:09 PM   #239 
  - I like how people spout off judgements without reading the article carefully.  Progs Rock   Apr-03-08 03:47 PM   #120 
  - Friends, please keep in mind that autism kills also.  Ilsa   Apr-03-08 03:57 PM   #124 
  - Ah, yes, fear Autism.  otherlander   Apr-03-08 04:01 PM   #126 
  - That reminds me. I forgot to flap my arms today.  KamaAina   Apr-03-08 08:16 PM   #164 
     - *snort*  otherlander   Apr-04-08 03:09 PM   #218 
        - Autistic people rock!  Lilith Velkor   Apr-04-08 05:20 PM   #226 
        - Took me a second...  KamaAina   Apr-04-08 05:42 PM   #229 
        - I rock to anything  Lilith Velkor   Apr-05-08 10:15 AM   #252 
        - Hey, aren't you that anarcha-feminist person?  otherlander   Apr-04-08 09:52 PM   #242 
           - Taht's me  Lilith Velkor   Apr-05-08 10:16 AM   #253 
        - You should research autism more, despite your diagnosis.  BullGooseLoony   Apr-05-08 11:07 PM   #316 
           - yes. the spectrum is very wide. the study of autism i did in 70's is not the autism  seabeyond   Apr-06-08 12:01 AM   #318 
           - Right, but I mean...  otherlander   Apr-06-08 10:10 PM   #330 
  - Did Jim Carrey adopt her child? He only has one child, a  JeanGrey   Apr-03-08 05:42 PM   #137 
  - Another Excellent ARTICLE to upset the MERCURY-PUSHERS.  dubyadubya3   Apr-03-08 06:59 PM   #150 
  - i watched my son on his two year old shots be effected and go  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 12:56 PM   #210 
  - About eighteen months ago, Reader's Digest had an article  truedelphi   Apr-04-08 01:22 PM   #214 
  - My father had Guilliume Barre  conscious evolution   Apr-05-08 11:14 AM   #254 
     - Was he able to take the swine flu vacine people to court?  truedelphi   Apr-05-08 12:39 PM   #256 
        - No he did not  conscious evolution   Apr-05-08 12:55 PM   #257 
  - Yes, the parents have had to become the warriors in this fight because no one gives a damn. nt  TheGoldenRule   Apr-04-08 02:37 PM   #217 
     - again this afternoon dealing with son about the same shit we have been dealing with for years  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 03:59 PM   #222 
        - I get so mad at those who are covering for big pharma. They are vile.  TheGoldenRule   Apr-04-08 05:10 PM   #224 
           - bush says pharma co cant be sued. BIG clue-in folks  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 06:34 PM   #237 
  - A question...  HanoverFist   Apr-04-08 03:13 PM   #219 
  - to at least know would be a huge step forward that would allow resolution  seabeyond   Apr-04-08 05:05 PM   #223 
  - I think you have an amazing attitude for all you have been through  MartyL   Apr-05-08 06:01 PM   #289 
     - a parent  seabeyond   Apr-06-08 12:02 AM   #319 
  - The Health policies of the US have answered that question, even if  Ilsa   Apr-04-08 05:19 PM   #225 
  - Welcome to DU!  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-05-08 09:46 PM   #310 
  - I'm sorry, I thought I was on Democratic Underground.  yibbehobba   Apr-04-08 06:25 PM   #235 
  - Kick this baby  AikidoSoul   Apr-05-08 02:09 PM   #260 
  - The positive in this article is...  axollot   Apr-05-08 02:40 PM   #262 
  - that is what i would do. i would have ALL the control over whta vaccinations and when  seabeyond   Apr-05-08 04:33 PM   #264 
  - I really think that it's time that this crap got moved to the 9/11 forum.  Finnfan   Apr-05-08 05:06 PM   #272 
  - Jenny McCarthy turned me into a newt  Robb   Apr-05-08 08:38 PM   #306 
  - My cell phone gave me hemorrhoids  GoneOffShore   Apr-05-08 10:15 PM   #313 
  - Are you suggesting you have more expertise on the topic of Autism?  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-05-08 09:39 PM   #309 
  - I did not realize CNN could post such shit.  MATTMAN   Apr-05-08 11:09 PM   #317 
  - CNN is a great fan of hysteria and pseudo science  GoneOffShore   Apr-06-08 02:38 PM   #327 
     - CNN? Check out their breathless, fawning piece on phrenology.  antfarm   Apr-13-08 09:35 AM   #364 
  - kEEP THIS BABY OU  w8liftinglady   Apr-11-08 01:03 AM   #354 
  - yeah whatever  pitohui   Apr-13-08 10:24 AM   #365 
 

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