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Reply #160: One can hold libertarian viewpoints without ascribing to the full belief set [View All]

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Firespirit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #159
160. One can hold libertarian viewpoints without ascribing to the full belief set
That aside, I think that if you set up prostitution as a regulated industry, you're opening the door for abuses. I hear the calls for forced STD testing in particular; this bothers me deeply. No other group of people is forced to undergo periodic testing for STDs, and there are plenty of people who have sex with a lot of different partners. That comes very close to the right wing calls for mandatory HIV testing of gay men. I just think government should stay away from people's crotches. It shouldn't be made illegal to do anything, but it shouldn't be a regulated industry.

Incidentally, there is no such thing as absolute objectivity. One's beliefs do color one's choices. And you can call me a misandrist if you want. It doesn't offend me. I own it fully. If you don't like my opinion, go right ahead and attribute it to that if you want.
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  -It's easy for us men to say "legalize prostitution." What do you women think about this issue? Mike03  Mar-11-08 08:03 PM   #0 
  - Yes. Why not?  emilyg   Mar-11-08 08:05 PM   #1 
  - this woman says  eShirl   Mar-11-08 08:05 PM   #2 
  - legalize prostitution, make adultery illegal  NYCALIZ   Mar-11-08 08:06 PM   #3 
  - hehe good one :) n/t  canadian_is_cold   Mar-11-08 09:45 PM   #36 
  - I agree,  goddess40   Mar-12-08 07:10 AM   #73 
  - Legalize it. It's the only way to reduce the victimization inherent in criminal control.  mcscajun   Mar-11-08 08:08 PM   #4 
  - Legalize, regulate, unionize and tax the income  aphopkin   Mar-12-08 05:39 AM   #61 
  - Spot on post  LostinVA   Mar-12-08 09:29 AM   #85 
  - That's the only reason that I see to legalize it...  Dorian Gray   Mar-12-08 07:50 PM   #140 
  - I think in Nevada safe sex is pretty standard in the brothels  XemaSab   Mar-12-08 08:54 PM   #149 
  - Not true. It can and has increased victimization.  CTyankee   Mar-13-08 12:09 PM   #184 
     - Thank you for this excellent article.  Big Blue Marble   Mar-13-08 01:22 PM   #189 
  - Absolutely. Legal, regulated for health and safety, taxed, and  grannylib   Mar-11-08 08:08 PM   #5 
  - Wife. Still say legalize prostitution. Not to say I wouldn't be furious if my hubby looked for fun  peacebird   Mar-11-08 08:08 PM   #6 
  - Agree with others here: Legalize it. Regulate it. Hell, Unionize it!  PeaceNikki   Mar-11-08 08:12 PM   #7 
  - If my husband ever went to one, I'd kill myself  sleebarker   Mar-11-08 08:13 PM   #8 
  - You'd first have to recognize that he would be the one at fault  Horse with no Name   Mar-11-08 09:46 PM   #38 
  - Well said Horse  goddess40   Mar-12-08 07:11 AM   #74 
  - "Empty his bank accounts and dump his sorry ass" for VIEWING PORN?  The Stranger   Mar-12-08 09:25 AM   #84 
     - no - for going to a prostitute nt  goddess40   Mar-12-08 10:14 AM   #89 
  - Amen to that! n/t  Lorien   Mar-12-08 09:04 PM   #151 
  - I think your response lack compassion.  Big Blue Marble   Mar-13-08 12:50 PM   #187 
  - Uh... why not kick the shit out of him instead?  Breeze54   Mar-12-08 05:26 PM   #112 
  - Absolutely legalize it  melody   Mar-11-08 08:14 PM   #9 
  - it takes two to make a sex for money transaction.  KG   Mar-11-08 08:19 PM   #10 
  - legalize it  angrycarpenter   Mar-11-08 08:20 PM   #11 
  - That would just push users into illegal prostitution  Jed Dilligan   Mar-12-08 01:30 AM   #57 
  - Legalize it? Sure, with some conditions, but please remember...  varelse   Mar-11-08 08:24 PM   #12 
  - I don't think it would change much.  LeftyMom   Mar-11-08 08:28 PM   #13 
  - "The men who don't fuck around still wouldn't fuck around. "  TheFriendlyAnarchist   Mar-12-08 06:12 AM   #69 
  - Not even a question.  sendero   Mar-11-08 08:28 PM   #14 
  - I know, men would be dating women for love not for sx n/t  AlphaCentauri   Mar-11-08 11:37 PM   #55 
  - The problem is...  sendero   Mar-12-08 07:24 AM   #76 
     - So do women  dropkickpa   Mar-12-08 10:39 AM   #91 
        - Yeah..  sendero   Mar-12-08 04:37 PM   #104 
  - i agree too.  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 06:09 PM   #122 
  - So, you take a woman on a date, buy her dinner  eilen   Mar-13-08 08:42 AM   #178 
  - Legalize it, regulate it, and let everybody make up their own mind.  davsand   Mar-11-08 08:30 PM   #15 
  - Absolutely not!  vankuria   Mar-11-08 08:32 PM   #16 
  - You can only speak for yourself  azygous   Mar-11-08 08:53 PM   #22 
  - pay me enough and I will suck your dick  Skittles   Mar-11-08 09:21 PM   #28 
     - Who is being degraded?  Behind the Aegis   Mar-11-08 09:29 PM   #29 
     - BOTH are being degraded  Skittles   Mar-11-08 09:34 PM   #30 
        - Argue with the employees of the Moonlight Bunny Ranch.  TheWraith   Mar-12-08 06:01 PM   #119 
     - I agree  Mojorabbit   Mar-11-08 09:42 PM   #34 
     - Why do you think it is degrading?  Behind the Aegis   Mar-11-08 09:47 PM   #39 
     - It is just my opinion  Mojorabbit   Mar-11-08 10:21 PM   #45 
     - a human being being treated as a semen receptacle  Skittles   Mar-11-08 10:34 PM   #47 
        - Anything can be degrading if you feel degraded by it.  mondo joe   Mar-11-08 11:10 PM   #49 
           - well if you like it that's fine  Skittles   Mar-11-08 11:14 PM   #50 
              - I'm gay. A lot of people find me very disgusting.  mondo joe   Mar-11-08 11:17 PM   #51 
                 - I absolutely do NOT find gay folk disgusting  Skittles   Mar-11-08 11:19 PM   #52 
                 - I didn't think you found gay people disgusting.  mondo joe   Mar-11-08 11:23 PM   #54 
                 - NOT my business  Skittles   Mar-12-08 01:13 AM   #56 
                    - Well, you clearly think it IS your business since you have such a strong opiion about it.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:29 AM   #77 
                 - Woah -- someone just called you a homophobe?  LostinVA   Mar-12-08 09:30 AM   #87 
                 - In the case of prostitution, there are many reasons for concern . . .  defendandprotect   Mar-13-08 03:22 AM   #170 
                    - Intimidatin and oppression thrive in the dark - that's why it should be legal and exposed.  mondo joe   Mar-13-08 08:39 AM   #176 
                       - What's happened in countries where prostitution is legal?  gollygee   Mar-13-08 02:34 PM   #198 
                       - I don't think $5k is the standard either. But the point should be (IMO) to ensure that  mondo joe   Mar-13-08 07:31 PM   #207 
                       - We're making the same argument about that . . ..  defendandprotect   Mar-13-08 03:37 PM   #202 
     - I hate to say this  XemaSab   Mar-13-08 01:48 AM   #165 
        - I think it would  Mojorabbit   Mar-13-08 02:11 PM   #194 
     - That's your own hangups and cultural bias talking  Jed Dilligan   Mar-12-08 01:33 AM   #58 
        - So you would rather..  girl gone mad   Mar-12-08 06:05 AM   #68 
        - I found applying to work at McDonalds more demeaning than any blow job I've ever given.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:31 AM   #78 
        - I would rob the rich or deal drugs before doing either  Jed Dilligan   Mar-12-08 10:56 AM   #94 
           - well.... after i hit explosion from you other post, and reading this..  seabeyond   Mar-13-08 04:13 PM   #204 
        - sucking dick more degrading working at McDonald's? are you stupid  seabeyond   Mar-13-08 04:08 PM   #203 
  - I'm not a prostitute, but I do sell my body, in a sense.  lildreamer316   Mar-12-08 05:44 AM   #62 
  - I Once Saw A Legal Secretary Called The "C-Word" In Front of Her Co-Workers  Yavin4   Mar-12-08 05:27 PM   #113 
  - Actually, some governments do hire brothel inspectors. Including right here in the States.  TheWraith   Mar-12-08 05:58 PM   #117 
  - how can you state what is demoralizing for other adult women?  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 07:48 PM   #139 
  - Why would that make a difference?  BanzaiBonnie   Mar-11-08 08:36 PM   #17 
  - This old married lady says legalize it, "sin tax" it, unionize it, regulate it, and ...  Hekate   Mar-11-08 08:41 PM   #18 
  - Selling is legal. Fucking is legal.  Mojambo   Mar-11-08 08:43 PM   #19 
  - I've always been in favor of legalization  Warpy   Mar-11-08 08:47 PM   #20 
  - Women are exploited from it far more because it is illegal...  Hippo_Tron   Mar-11-08 08:50 PM   #21 
  - NAIL on head!! (no pun intended!!)  lildreamer316   Mar-12-08 05:47 AM   #63 
  - Legalize it and tax the Hell out of that $5000 an hour job. Should  spenbax   Mar-11-08 08:56 PM   #23 
  - Yes.  enlightenment   Mar-11-08 09:04 PM   #24 
  - Please note, not all men and women are heterosexual, nor is all prostitution. NT  mondo joe   Mar-11-08 09:10 PM   #25 
  - As a woman, my view is legalize it,  LibertyLover   Mar-11-08 09:17 PM   #26 
  - it should be legal  Skittles   Mar-11-08 09:19 PM   #27 
  - I'd actively support legalization, if it was accompanied by aggressive crack downs  galledgoblin   Mar-11-08 09:38 PM   #31 
  - I do think that making it legal  lildreamer316   Mar-12-08 05:49 AM   #64 
  - you are right. also as soon as things are legal they are far easier to regulate  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 05:56 PM   #116 
  - I don't want them available to me, but I don't care if they are legal.  MrsGrumpy   Mar-11-08 09:39 PM   #32 
  - legalization won't work  provis99   Mar-11-08 09:40 PM   #33 
  - I say legalize and regulate it. It would be safer for the women involved in the trade. n/t  canadian_is_cold   Mar-11-08 09:44 PM   #35 
  - No..  Princess Turandot   Mar-11-08 09:45 PM   #37 
  - You nailed it!  vankuria   Mar-14-08 07:19 AM   #209 
  - Legalize and regulate it,  Lydia Leftcoast   Mar-11-08 09:54 PM   #40 
  - It should be legal, regulated, and taxed.  AzDar   Mar-11-08 09:55 PM   #41 
  - Legalize it, licence it, regulate it  nadinbrzezinski   Mar-11-08 09:56 PM   #42 
  - I say yes, and regulate it.  Withywindle   Mar-11-08 10:01 PM   #43 
  - Legalize it, and gimme my gigolo voucher  Lilith Velkor   Mar-11-08 10:03 PM   #44 
  - agreed.  MATTMAN   Mar-11-08 10:29 PM   #46 
     - Interesting.  girl gone mad   Mar-12-08 06:02 AM   #67 
        - Yes  Mojorabbit   Mar-12-08 02:03 PM   #95 
        - It is legal, and controlled in places like the Netherlands  nadinbrzezinski   Mar-12-08 02:07 PM   #96 
        - Did you read the post below  Mojorabbit   Mar-12-08 05:16 PM   #108 
        - Actually, the Netherlands has..  girl gone mad   Mar-12-08 05:22 PM   #110 
           - Frankly, I have the same response often given to people who oppose abortion.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:30 PM   #133 
        - Because some people are assholes, it should illegal?  Chovexani   Mar-12-08 08:42 PM   #145 
  - As a married woman...  kimmylavin   Mar-11-08 10:56 PM   #48 
  - Absolutely not  alarimer   Mar-11-08 11:22 PM   #53 
  - I agree!  michaz   Mar-12-08 06:48 AM   #70 
  - They are abused without recourse when it is illegal.  whereismyparty   Mar-12-08 02:12 PM   #100 
  - Legalize it  Book Lover   Mar-12-08 01:38 AM   #59 
  - Being a stripper, I'm somewhat biased...sorta.  lildreamer316   Mar-12-08 05:29 AM   #60 
  - As a human rights advocate: No.  lwfern   Mar-12-08 05:54 AM   #65 
  - That's a very convincing argument.  GaYellowDawg   Mar-12-08 07:20 AM   #75 
  - Keeping abuse in the shadows doesn't mitigate abuse. n/t  sfexpat2000   Mar-12-08 02:11 PM   #99 
  - You are he first person on the other side of this argument from me who's managed to convince me you  baby_mouse   Mar-12-08 06:20 PM   #124 
  - I can't see how legalization would be any good.  girl gone mad   Mar-12-08 05:56 AM   #66 
  - There will be prostitution whether it's legal or illegal.  Vinca   Mar-12-08 06:53 AM   #71 
  - As long as it's male prostitutes  StopThePendulum   Mar-12-08 07:03 AM   #72 
  - No  eilen   Mar-12-08 07:54 AM   #79 
  - Do you believe women can consent to have sex at all?  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 08:24 AM   #80 
     - This thread is really blowing my mind  eilen   Mar-12-08 05:05 PM   #107 
        - I missed an answer to my question in there. Do you believe women can form consent to have sex  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:20 PM   #126 
        - yes  eilen   Mar-12-08 08:35 PM   #144 
        - Clarifying question: You believe in a patriarchal society women can form consent,  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 08:47 PM   #146 
        - As long as we have patriarchy, that will be a valid question . . .  defendandprotect   Mar-13-08 03:26 AM   #172 
           - Do you believe women can form consent at all? Can women be trusted with choice -  mondo joe   Mar-13-08 08:41 AM   #177 
              - In some countries ME--esp. Sharia communities, women are told to abort  eilen   Mar-13-08 09:30 AM   #179 
              - So to clarify: are you saying it is impossible for a woman (let's limit it to a woman in the  mondo joe   Mar-13-08 09:35 AM   #180 
                 - Obviously many women consent to this and many other self destructive behavior  eilen   Mar-13-08 01:32 PM   #191 
                 - My point is simply that if adults are free to form consent, it's their choice and  mondo joe   Mar-13-08 02:26 PM   #197 
                    - Do you allow for the consideration  eilen   Mar-15-08 12:07 PM   #211 
                 - A woman can "consent" . . . but we are questioning how freely in a patriarchy ---  defendandprotect   Mar-13-08 03:33 PM   #201 
                    - If a woman can't truly form consent how can she be treated as an equal adult who can  mondo joe   Mar-13-08 07:27 PM   #206 
              - I gave you my answer re "sex" --- we still live in a patriarchy . . .  defendandprotect   Mar-13-08 03:26 PM   #199 
        - A lot of intelligent questioning here . . .  defendandprotect   Mar-13-08 03:25 AM   #171 
  - It only becomes my business when people are exploited.  Orsino   Mar-12-08 08:37 AM   #81 
  - strongly seconded  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 09:31 AM   #88 
  - I think it should be decriminalized  AspieGrrl   Mar-12-08 09:00 AM   #82 
  - Married woman here...legallize it to protect the workers...  youthere   Mar-12-08 09:19 AM   #83 
  - prostitution should be legalized to protect women who are in sex work.  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 09:30 AM   #86 
  - I concurr. It doesn't seem ideal, but it is the wisest and most pragmatic humanitarian solution  Drachasor   Mar-12-08 04:41 PM   #106 
  - Yes, yes and yes.  Le Taz Hot   Mar-12-08 10:18 AM   #90 
  - It should be legal  aroach   Mar-12-08 10:43 AM   #92 
  - It should be leagailzed, and I am a married woman  Jennicut   Mar-12-08 10:43 AM   #93 
  - Of course it should be legalized. Keeping it illegal only puts women at risk  sfexpat2000   Mar-12-08 02:08 PM   #97 
  - YES!!! I've lived in countries where it is legal.  whereismyparty   Mar-12-08 02:10 PM   #98 
  - Legalize and regulate it  Lone_Star_Dem   Mar-12-08 02:31 PM   #101 
  - Oops  goodgd_yall   Mar-12-08 02:38 PM   #103 
  - Legalize and regulate it  goodgd_yall   Mar-12-08 02:36 PM   #102 
  - agreed, we need to protect the people in sex work.  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 06:08 PM   #121 
  - It is one of the immutable things about society, it may as well be  treestar   Mar-12-08 04:41 PM   #105 
  - Just putting in my two cents worth, don't forget to legalize Marijuana while you're at it. n/t  Uncle Joe   Mar-12-08 05:21 PM   #109 
  - if a woman is "pro-choice" regarding abortion- shouldn't she also be pro-choice re: prostitution?  QuestionAll   Mar-12-08 05:23 PM   #111 
  - Precisely. I support the right of women (and men) to do with their bodies as they choose.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:26 PM   #130 
  - you also rock!  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 07:41 PM   #136 
  - yep. pro athletes get to do as they choose with theirs, why not everyone else...?  QuestionAll   Mar-12-08 08:03 PM   #142 
  - yes,  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 07:39 PM   #135 
  - Definite no  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 05:27 PM   #114 
  - does anyone aspire to be a janitor? should we make that illegal as well?  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 05:46 PM   #115 
  - False logic  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 06:00 PM   #118 
     - prostitution does not take away ones rights to ones body unless its forced prostitition  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 06:07 PM   #120 
        - So you don't see it as a business transaction?  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 06:27 PM   #125 
           - Unless people are forced into prostitution - which NO ONE HERE would condone in any way -  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:24 PM   #128 
  - All work is trade in flesh. Whether you shoot baskets, mop floors or carry luggage, you  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:21 PM   #127 
  - You really see labor and sex as the same thing?  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 09:02 PM   #150 
     - I don't imbue sex with magical powers.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 09:07 PM   #152 
        - This is where we differ  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 09:18 PM   #154 
           - I'm pro-choice. I believe in the capacity of adult women to form consent.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 09:20 PM   #155 
              - Most women can consent  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 09:28 PM   #156 
                 - That's the same crap said by anti-choice people about abortion. They too want to protect  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 09:33 PM   #157 
                    - No, they don't  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 09:44 PM   #158 
                       - Incorrect. They certainly claim they are protecting the women who abort.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 09:53 PM   #159 
                          - One can hold libertarian viewpoints without ascribing to the full belief set  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 10:07 PM   #160 
                             - I guess that means being pro choice on abortion, and same sex marriage makes me libertarian.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 10:10 PM   #161 
                                - Pro choice IS libertarian  Firespirit   Mar-12-08 10:18 PM   #162 
                                   - But since I don't advocate "extreme libertarianism" that's not material to this discussion.  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 10:20 PM   #163 
  - Thank you.  eilen   Mar-13-08 08:37 AM   #175 
     - Then please go read a bit more.  enlightenment   Mar-13-08 02:02 PM   #192 
  - Female here. Legalize it and regulate it.  uppityperson   Mar-12-08 06:12 PM   #123 
  - I really wish people would respect other  femrap   Mar-12-08 07:25 PM   #129 
  - There are men who go into the same line of work, despite them being men with all the associated  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:27 PM   #131 
  - i wish people would respect people who make choices differently than them  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 07:38 PM   #134 
  - It's a matter of privacy, and choice. The same narrow arguments are used by anti-choice  mondo joe   Mar-12-08 07:42 PM   #137 
     - agreed, i have 2 prostitute friends over the years, one boy and one girl,  lionesspriyanka   Mar-12-08 07:44 PM   #138 
  - The sad thing is that some WANT to be prostitutes. I used to live with one  Lorien   Mar-12-08 09:17 PM   #153 
     - Her father  femrap   Mar-12-08 10:33 PM   #164 
        - The way she yelled at her father on the phone  Lorien   Mar-13-08 02:31 AM   #167 
        - It's a dangerous way to make a living  femrap   Mar-13-08 12:42 PM   #185 
        - Yeah, and if she doesn't remember being abused, she probably  antfarm   Mar-13-08 06:11 AM   #173 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Mar-13-08 12:44 PM   #186 
              - Was that outburst really necessary? -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Mar-13-08 02:19 PM   #195 
                 - In the words of  femrap   Mar-13-08 02:21 PM   #196 
                    - No, and you weren't talking to the mods either. Not that it made a difference. -nt  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Mar-13-08 04:22 PM   #205 
  - Legalize it. Period.  OmmmSweetOmmm   Mar-12-08 07:28 PM   #132 
  - It's legal in Nevada  Catchawave   Mar-12-08 08:00 PM   #141 
  - Yes.  LWolf   Mar-12-08 08:18 PM   #143 
  - I'm a woman and I say legalize it  XemaSab   Mar-12-08 08:50 PM   #147 
  - Legalize, tax and regulate the hell out of it.  Chovexani   Mar-12-08 08:51 PM   #148 
  - keep separate accounts....  pfitz59   Mar-13-08 01:50 AM   #166 
  - Criminalizing consensual acts is absurd.  alphafemale   Mar-13-08 02:53 AM   #168 
  - It would also help to control the rate of STD's...  zanne   Mar-13-08 06:53 AM   #174 
  - Generally, I'm for legalizing prostitution . . . .  defendandprotect   Mar-13-08 03:17 AM   #169 
  - I say: How many women would become prostitutes if they had similar-paying other job options?  WinkyDink   Mar-13-08 09:40 AM   #181 
  - i think the higher end of prostitution would still exist.  lionesspriyanka   Mar-13-08 09:43 AM   #182 
  - Yeah. We'd have teachers out the wazoo if it paid $5K an hour.  alphafemale   Mar-13-08 11:13 AM   #183 
  - There are male prostitutes as well, making a living primarily with gay male customers.  mondo joe   Mar-13-08 12:54 PM   #188 
     - Homsexuals had "all the male privileges" . . . and you're gay ---??? !!!  defendandprotect   Mar-13-08 07:32 PM   #208 
        - What makes you think male prostitutes with gay customers are necessarily  mondo joe   Mar-14-08 08:45 AM   #210 
  - there is already easy availability of prostitution  pitohui   Mar-13-08 01:25 PM   #190 
  - how do you know 'american whores' dont want it badly enough?  lionesspriyanka   Mar-13-08 02:09 PM   #193 
  - Compare these two professions...  lame54   Mar-13-08 03:28 PM   #200 
 

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