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Reply #19: Yes and no.. [View All]

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GTurck Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-28-08 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Yes and no..
The Founders were very suspicious of empire but knowing the Roman model so well they saw the dangers there too. Their idea was to not have a class of men who were expected to be senators with revolving tribunes, etc as leaders but for there to be a way for the best of all Americans no matter where they started from to have a chance to be in offices of power. That is a stand out difference from Rome. In Rome to become a senator you had to be a member of the Senatorial Class which was a sub-set of the Patricians. That was maybe 5% of 20% of all Romans. Over time it became possible to buy your seat in the Senate by being super-rich but there were never any elections by the people for this office. It would have been unthinkable to have judgment passed on those Senators-to-be by having plebeians vote for them. Now translate that all into today's terms and it will be easier to understand what a profound difference the founders of our nation intended.
But I am sorry for not having provided more of the quotes from "The Anti-Federalist Papers". I was trying to be brief.
p.6:"This republicanism of the 1780's was not in principle different from what in Britain and America by mid-nineteenth century was generally called representative democracy. The founders would not have been opposed to the modern connotation of the word "democracy," nor would they have used the word "republic" to mark out a distinction from those connotations. In scorning "democracy," eighteenth century theorists had in mind Aristotle's picture of a heedless, emotional, manipulated populace that would still be denigrated by most modern democratic theorists."
Thanks for the comments. It think it is essential that this sort of conversation is engaged.
Thanks to Ralph Ketcham who wrote the quote above for helping me understand our founding better too.
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  -Why do some Republicans get so worked up when people call America a democracy? NewJeffCT  Feb-26-08 08:11 AM   #0 
  - Hmmm... I thought it was the GOP who have been lying about the US being a democracy for years  glenhappy   Feb-26-08 08:17 AM   #1 
  - For starters, America is not and never has been a democracy  TechBear_Seattle   Feb-26-08 08:17 AM   #2 
  - True, it is a Republic  NewJeffCT   Feb-26-08 08:22 AM   #5 
  - The distinction I learned in AP government class is...  TechBear_Seattle   Feb-26-08 08:48 AM   #11 
     - IIFCC a famous quote from Ben Franklin  nels25   Feb-26-08 09:10 AM   #17 
  - By the mid-1800's  GTurck   Feb-26-08 08:33 AM   #10 
     - The Founders were also suspicious of "empires."  CTyankee   Feb-26-08 08:54 AM   #14 
     - In a "democratic republic," democracy is an adjective and not the form of government  TechBear_Seattle   Feb-26-08 09:09 AM   #15 
        - Yes and no..  GTurck   Feb-28-08 08:35 AM   #19 
  - Maybe because it really is a republic. nt  iconoclastic cat   Feb-26-08 08:18 AM   #3 
  - the gist of it is this:  stahbrett   Feb-26-08 08:21 AM   #4 
  - I think they get worked up because Obama is a Democrat  bryant69   Feb-26-08 08:25 AM   #6 
  - Beware a Republican who leads with "Well if you study history..."  underpants   Feb-26-08 08:26 AM   #7 
  - Dupe  higher class   Feb-26-08 08:33 AM   #8 
  - Since our number one export is democracy - delivered with lectures,  higher class   Feb-26-08 08:33 AM   #9 
  - It is instructive to learn from the example of Athens, the world's first democracy.  CTyankee   Feb-26-08 09:10 AM   #16 
  - In Republic , the Representativesof the people can and do  OHdem10   Feb-26-08 08:52 AM   #12 
  - They've Been Trained By (Neo)Fascist Propaganda Meme (As Have Many Non-Repubs)  Senator   Feb-26-08 08:53 AM   #13 
  - Does Bush* know this?  Winterblues   Feb-26-08 10:14 AM   #18 
  - The USA is both. It's a democratic republic!  B Calm   Feb-28-08 09:07 AM   #20 
 

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