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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-24-07 05:06 AM
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SICKO - breakfast with republics
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Saturday afternoon we watched SICKO. At first my partner rolled her eyes and sighed "not another political movie..." Within 10 minutes she was glued to it. By the time the movie ended, she said she's going to start researching immigration/jobs/housing etc in Canada.

She called her cousin in CA - told her to go out and rent SICKO. She went on line and ordered a copy of SICKO to send to her brother (brother has been through the ringer with a medical problem for the past 4 years). We gave it to our neighbor to watch.

yesterday, the local volunteer fire department had their monthly fund-raising breakfast. We met up with our neighbor and went there for breakfast. Over breakfast we talked about SICKO.

A guy sitting at the other end of the table started with the standard republic kook-aid rhetoric. "Can't pick your own doctor....bureacrats managing your health...socialized medicine...doctors would get out of medicine...yadda yadda yadda"

I started asking him a few questions - his answers are in bold

Who pays for your health insurance now? "employer, with an employee co-pay"

If for what ever reason you no longer have a job, would the employer continue to provide health insurance? "no"

What would you do, could you afford health insurance for yourself and family? "uhh..uhhh..."

Any medical problems that would be considered pre-existing? High blood pressure, cholesterol, diabetes? "Yeah, but.."

Assuming you could afford an individual plan - you would be denied coverage because of those pre-existing conditions. In a Universal healthcare type coverage - you would still have health coverage. Now about picking your own doctor - let's say you want Dr. Jones, but Dr. Jones is not within your current healthplan's network - can you still go to Dr. Jones without paying 'out of network' fees or needing a referral or pre-approval? "no"

then you really can't pick your own doctor can you? With Universal healthcare, all doctors are included. Now, let's say you have a particular medical problem, your doctor wants to send you to a specialist or for a special test - either you or your doctor has to contact the insurance company for pre-approval and it could be denied because either they won't cover the cost of the test or because the particular specialist is not 'in-network'. So you still can't PICK YOUR OWN DOCTOR.

he snorts the quality of healthcare will go down - me: the united states is ranked 37th in the world, just above Slovania in terms of healthcare services for it's citizens.

there won't be any doctors, they'll stop practicing because they can't make any money - me: well, let me ask you this do you want to be treated by a doctor whose motivation for being a doctor is to make money, or to provide the best he/she can in keeping you healthy? right now, they get bonuses from insurance companies by NOT recommending certain treatments/drugs/procedures - or on the flipside get bonuses from drug companies by prescribing stuff you don't need. Don't know about you, but when I see a doctor I would want to see one that is concerned about the health of his/her patients, not one that is concerned about the health of his/her bank account.

I don't want some bureaucrat making my medical decisions me: who makes them now? some bureaucrat at the insurance company - they decide which doctors you can or cannot see, which procedures you can or cannot have, which medications you can or cannot have, which medical conditions they will cover or not cover. these bureaucrats at the insurance companies get bonuses and promotions by DENYING YOU SERVICES or COVERAGE, and they come out and tell you their first responsibility and obligation is to the STOCKHOLDERS. Our healthcare system is based on concern for profits, not people.


I may not have changed his mind, but I did see alot of people around us nodding their heads. I did tell the guy to go rent/buy SICKO, watch it, do some research on his own and then make up his own mind.

As we were leaving, one woman came up to us, asked for the name of the movie again, said she wanted to watch it, then told us how her husband lost his job a could of years back and they had no health insurance until he found another job, she was scared out of her wits that during the interim time that she, her husband or kids would need medical attention and how would they pay for it.

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  -SICKO - breakfast with republics radfringe  Dec-24-07 05:06 AM   #0 
  - K&R! Even if you didn't convince him, you probably made him think about it  Pushed To The Left   Dec-24-07 05:16 AM   #1 
  - probably not  radfringe   Dec-24-07 05:22 AM   #2 
     - My family is just as brainwashed  Joe Bacon   Dec-31-07 02:43 PM   #56 
        - Should your health go into the questionable category, you will also  truedelphi   Jan-01-08 03:08 PM   #57 
  - It doesn't really take a lot of convincing if you're talking to someone  annabanana   Dec-24-07 05:23 AM   #3 
  - This is a great post. K & R and keep speaking out!  tom_paine   Dec-24-07 05:42 AM   #4 
  - thanks!  radfringe   Dec-24-07 05:54 AM   #5 
  - "scared out of her wits"  lostnfound   Dec-24-07 06:28 AM   #6 
  - Exactly ...  Progressive Radical   Dec-24-07 10:04 AM   #14 
     - Corporations are the biggest problem America has. No government  loudsue   Dec-24-07 11:12 AM   #16 
        - Agreed. n/t  Progressive Radical   Dec-24-07 12:04 PM   #18 
  - Health care is something  mac2   Dec-24-07 07:18 AM   #7 
  - President Ronnie "Raygun" started attacking health care  radfringe   Dec-24-07 09:09 AM   #8 
  - national health care is a pipedream...  Javaman   Dec-24-07 09:17 AM   #9 
  - Dare to dream, Dare to dream  lame54   Dec-24-07 09:57 AM   #13 
  - only if we let remain a dream  radfringe   Dec-24-07 03:25 PM   #33 
     - As Bush would say  dflprincess   Dec-24-07 10:44 PM   #43 
  - thank you for speaking out on this issue  cynthia   Dec-24-07 09:31 AM   #10 
  - The next time you see him, give him a copy of this:  Progressive Radical   Dec-24-07 09:54 AM   #11 
  - Link doesn't work for me. Can you try reposting or just send me the name...  warren pease   Dec-24-07 12:32 PM   #21 
     - My apologies:  Progressive Radical   Dec-24-07 12:50 PM   #23 
        - Thanks a lot...  warren pease   Dec-24-07 01:02 PM   #24 
           - Thank you and I will!  Progressive Radical   Dec-24-07 01:37 PM   #25 
           - Are you referring to the statistical annex?  Progressive Radical   Dec-24-07 02:13 PM   #27 
              - Yeah, sorry, I meant "annex" ...  warren pease   Dec-24-07 02:20 PM   #29 
                 - LOL ...  Progressive Radical   Dec-24-07 02:54 PM   #30 
                    - Watch out for the seven deadly DU sins...  warren pease   Dec-24-07 03:48 PM   #36 
                       - I very much appreciate it ...  Progressive Radical   Dec-24-07 05:35 PM   #39 
  - Great job telling the facts rad.  B Calm   Dec-24-07 09:56 AM   #12 
  - K&R. You made a argument here, and it is clear you won the debate.  MN Against Bush   Dec-24-07 11:07 AM   #15 
  - One more K & R for a good list of "talking points"  tom_paine   Dec-24-07 12:02 PM   #17 
  - my core ideal is that people should analyze and think for themselves  radfringe   Dec-24-07 03:53 PM   #37 
  - GOOD ON YA! I need to see it. I haven't yet.  helderheid   Dec-24-07 12:15 PM   #19 
  - when you do see it  radfringe   Dec-24-07 03:39 PM   #34 
  - Great job! You may not have changed his mind... yet  walldude   Dec-24-07 12:23 PM   #20 
  - OUCH! In One Post You Destroyed the Right's Talking Points  fascisthunter   Dec-24-07 12:41 PM   #22 
  - Well may have made him think.....but it's the others  MadMaddie   Dec-24-07 02:09 PM   #26 
  - good for you  Blarch   Dec-24-07 02:14 PM   #28 
  - There really is no argument against it  rockymountaindem   Dec-24-07 03:18 PM   #31 
  - Kudos, and good work ! :-) n/t  K Gardner   Dec-24-07 03:22 PM   #32 
  - Error: You've already recommended that thread.  CrispyQGirl   Dec-24-07 03:41 PM   #35 
  - This is quite elegant, thank you.  diane in sf   Dec-24-07 04:19 PM   #38 
  - I sent the OP to all my e-mail contacts, hope you don't mind!  B Calm   Dec-24-07 07:29 PM   #40 
  - K&R - watching it now!  shanti   Dec-24-07 10:39 PM   #41 
  - We need to be prepared to address a key point  MindMatter   Dec-24-07 10:39 PM   #42 
  - One word response for this:  dodger501   Dec-24-07 11:47 PM   #45 
     - OK, but let's take it one step further  MindMatter   Dec-25-07 09:06 AM   #52 
  - As far as the "doctors not making money" arguement goes.  dflprincess   Dec-24-07 10:48 PM   #44 
  - that did cross my mind  radfringe   Dec-25-07 03:47 AM   #48 
  - EXCELLENT retort!!  Roland99   Dec-25-07 12:34 AM   #46 
  - great post--breakfast with republiks (what a drag)  orleans   Dec-25-07 03:37 AM   #47 
  - This is a conversation we need engage  cyclezealot   Dec-25-07 04:36 AM   #49 
  - this thread in GP also brings up another point  radfringe   Dec-25-07 04:44 AM   #50 
  - Thank you for that piece of advice.  truedelphi   Jan-01-08 03:15 PM   #58 
  - You made an excellent argument. Every time I encounter a  Vinca   Dec-25-07 08:41 AM   #51 
  - we're in that boat with my partner  radfringe   Dec-25-07 04:48 PM   #53 
  - neighbors watched SICKO  radfringe   Dec-27-07 04:53 AM   #54 
  - I am downloading your responses. Wow!  truedelphi   Dec-31-07 02:40 PM   #55 
  - Kick + Happy New Year! n/t  CorpGovActivist   Jan-01-08 03:16 PM   #59 

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