The Traveler
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Tue Dec-04-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #70 |
| 75. My general relativity prof |
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Would have been amused by the above, methinks.
A theory is not a scientific law. It is a relational collection of axioms that facilitates the generation of hypothesis. For example, Newton's three laws of motion are axiomatic expressions ... definitions or assumptions. These axioms allow one to make a hypothesis ... projectile fired out of a cannon in a vacuum will describe a parabolic trajectory, for example. We can test that and to a high degree of accuracy the results match predictions. The more good predictions that can be generated from the theoretical base, and the fewer the axioms, the better the theory.
The equation for gravitational force is the mathematical expression of a similar fundamental axiom ... Newton DEFINES a force proportional to the product of the masses divided by the square of the distance seperating them. From this one can generate a whole range of testable hypotheses. The results of these tests give one confidence that the "law" is a pretty good one.
Then someone screws things up with a couple of off the wall observations and the whole elegant structure no longer satisfies. Light bends, it turns out. Its speed appears constant regardless of motion relative to the source of light. Now to proceed further we need new axioms ...
My advisor used to hammer this into me ... there is no way to PROVE a theory correct. One can boost confidence in the value and accuracy of its predictions. But all it takes is one observation or experiment to disprove it as being "true".
As application of Newtonian mechanics gave us the means to observe and consider phenomena explained later by relativistic mechanics, so also we may expect newer theories to eventually lead us the phenomena which they cannot satisfactorily describe, and the cycle starts over again. All of which is what makes science fun.
|
| -My girlfriend just finished her EN101 report / pro-intelligent design in school |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:04 PM |
#0 |
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There is a point to which the human mind can comprehend reality |
Squatch |
Dec-04-07 04:08 PM |
#1 |
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nice touch my friend |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:12 PM |
#3 |
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It doesn't belong in SCIENCE class, Jack. nt |
impeachdubya |
Dec-04-07 04:15 PM |
#8 |
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That's like saying holocaust denial helps folks think outside the box. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 04:16 PM |
#9 |
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No, the Holocaust happened |
bamalib |
Dec-04-07 04:28 PM |
#17 |
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It's only a "theory" because it hasn't been proven yet. |
pabsungenis |
Dec-04-07 04:32 PM |
#21 |
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Uh, a theory is never proved |
The Traveler |
Dec-04-07 04:41 PM |
#26 |
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Is this true? A Theory can never be proved? |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 04:52 PM |
#34 |
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I think it's misleading to say a scientific theory can't be proved |
magellan |
Dec-04-07 10:35 PM |
#70 |
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My general relativity prof |
The Traveler |
Dec-04-07 11:02 PM |
#75 |
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Yes, it's nuanced |
magellan |
Dec-04-07 11:23 PM |
#76 |
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What is the theory of an automobile? |
The Traveler |
Dec-04-07 11:52 PM |
#80 |
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thank you for your reply |
mdmc |
Dec-06-07 08:38 AM |
#104 |
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Define "proof" |
The Traveler |
Dec-04-07 10:35 PM |
#71 |
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You can never prove something 100% |
IAmJacksSmirkingRevenge |
Dec-05-07 08:33 AM |
#98 |
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How about the shape of our planet |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 04:59 PM |
#38 |
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Good counter example |
The Traveler |
Dec-04-07 05:39 PM |
#51 |
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Reductio ad absurdum. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 05:44 PM |
#54 |
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Not at all |
The Traveler |
Dec-04-07 10:41 PM |
#72 |
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The Earth is not round!! |
Swamp Rat |
Dec-04-07 11:56 PM |
#81 |
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You left out gnomic projections, buddy! |
The Traveler |
Dec-05-07 12:31 AM |
#83 |
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"It is more like a wrapped tube like thingy." |
Swamp Rat |
Dec-05-07 12:49 AM |
#85 |
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Curse you! |
The Traveler |
Dec-05-07 01:01 AM |
#87 |
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I see you are a Carlin fan. |
Swamp Rat |
Dec-05-07 01:18 AM |
#89 |
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You are correct, sir |
The Traveler |
Dec-05-07 01:45 AM |
#91 |
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I'm watching "Seven Words" right now: |
Swamp Rat |
Dec-05-07 01:52 AM |
#93 |
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I gotta get some rack |
The Traveler |
Dec-05-07 01:58 AM |
#94 |
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Later alligator |
Swamp Rat |
Dec-05-07 02:10 AM |
#95 |
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'"Roundness" in the conventional sense presumes a 3-D geometry' |
Vickers |
Dec-04-07 06:48 PM |
#65 |
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Insults rarely illuminate |
The Traveler |
Dec-04-07 10:43 PM |
#73 |
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Thanks, Traveler |
Blecht |
Dec-05-07 12:49 AM |
#84 |
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Not sure I explained it very well |
The Traveler |
Dec-05-07 01:06 AM |
#88 |
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Oh, I apologize...where in my post did I mention "scientific method" |
Vickers |
Dec-05-07 06:42 AM |
#96 |
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I thought it had more to do with testing and reproducibility |
dotcosm |
Dec-05-07 12:54 AM |
#86 |
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We almost agree |
The Traveler |
Dec-05-07 01:52 AM |
#92 |
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Sorry, evolution happened. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 04:49 PM |
#30 |
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Wrong! Evolution is a proven, verifiable fact. |
RC |
Dec-04-07 05:48 PM |
#56 |
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There hasn't been any new science |
Blue_In_AK |
Dec-04-07 10:45 PM |
#74 |
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That has to be one of the dumbest statements I have seen in a long time. |
EstimatedProphet |
Dec-05-07 09:21 AM |
#101 |
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bamalib |
RainDog |
Dec-05-07 09:27 AM |
#102 |
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I hope she's at least really attractive. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 04:10 PM |
#2 |
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yes she is |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:14 PM |
#6 |
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Wow. That's quite the dynamic progress. |
quantessd |
Dec-04-07 05:24 PM |
#44 |
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Why does there HAVE to be anything before? |
greiner3 |
Dec-04-07 04:13 PM |
#4 |
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Speculation is the realm of religion and philosophy, not science. |
porphyrian |
Dec-04-07 04:13 PM |
#5 |
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Agreed, my friend |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:18 PM |
#11 |
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I don't think a lot of the ID people get it, though. |
porphyrian |
Dec-04-07 04:23 PM |
#16 |
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I try to get it across to them via Buddhist creation myth |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:28 PM |
#18 |
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I bet that makes some ears smoke. -n/t |
porphyrian |
Dec-04-07 04:31 PM |
#20 |
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Thanksgiving dinner was interesting |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:35 PM |
#23 |
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Aw, fat happy Buddha and baby Jesus would love each other... -n/t |
porphyrian |
Dec-04-07 04:47 PM |
#28 |
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Strange. I'm a Buddhist, and that is not what I learned. NT |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:41 PM |
#52 |
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I am sure that there are many different myths |
mdmc |
Dec-05-07 01:50 PM |
#103 |
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Before the big bang, there was no stuff, as such |
Warpy |
Dec-04-07 04:14 PM |
#7 |
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If she actually believes that stuff, I'd find a new girlfriend before you reproduce. n/t |
IanDB1 |
Dec-04-07 04:17 PM |
#10 |
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Who can afford to reproduce? |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:19 PM |
#12 |
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The so-called "debate" about evolution doesn't have anything to do with the Big Bang. |
impeachdubya |
Dec-04-07 04:20 PM |
#13 |
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agreed. |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:22 PM |
#14 |
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Why do they call evolution a theory? |
bamalib |
Dec-04-07 04:30 PM |
#19 |
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Because that's what it is. |
porphyrian |
Dec-04-07 04:46 PM |
#27 |
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Hell, why do they call it the "theory of gravity" ??? I want scientific proof that it really exists! |
tandot |
Dec-04-07 04:48 PM |
#29 |
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Same reason they call gravity, germs, color, etc. "theory" |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 04:50 PM |
#31 |
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Oh, Jeez, Not this shit again. |
impeachdubya |
Dec-04-07 05:49 PM |
#57 |
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Same reason they call gravity a theory |
MN Against Bush |
Dec-04-07 06:45 PM |
#63 |
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You Misunderstand the Term |
fascisthunter |
Dec-04-07 07:06 PM |
#68 |
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Yes, The Big Bang has everything to do with the ID debate |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 04:36 PM |
#25 |
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It's got nothing to do with Evolution. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 04:51 PM |
#32 |
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Your posts are rather flatulent |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:14 PM |
#42 |
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fact: Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 05:34 PM |
#47 |
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Nevermind. You just don't get the obvious implications. NT |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 06:47 PM |
#64 |
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There is no "ID Debate". There are people who are trying to shoehorn shit for which there is no |
impeachdubya |
Dec-04-07 05:52 PM |
#59 |
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Yes, among educated people, there is no debate. |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 06:49 PM |
#66 |
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Why is there something rather than nothing? |
Jim__ |
Dec-04-07 04:23 PM |
#15 |
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I empathize with your question about what came before the Big Bang |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 04:34 PM |
#22 |
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Thank you for your post my friend |
mdmc |
Dec-04-07 04:36 PM |
#24 |
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The Anthropic Principle's going to destroy science? |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 04:52 PM |
#33 |
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Your post is not all that helpful in ascertaining your |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:11 PM |
#41 |
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"It has already divided the community of theoretical physicists, badly." |
Bornaginhooligan |
Dec-04-07 05:38 PM |
#49 |
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You're making no sense. |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 06:27 PM |
#61 |
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Dear Bornaginhooligan, |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 06:53 PM |
#67 |
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From what I understand, there are theories |
Katherine Brengle |
Dec-04-07 04:57 PM |
#35 |
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I sure agree with your third point |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:18 PM |
#43 |
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Maybe you could expound upon the hypothesis used to develop the multiple universe theory |
Toots |
Dec-05-07 08:05 AM |
#97 |
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Science is the study of the natural world. |
mmonk |
Dec-04-07 04:58 PM |
#36 |
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Nature tells us we are able to REASON but collectively...WE DON'T |
opihimoimoi |
Dec-04-07 04:59 PM |
#37 |
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Anyone who believes in creationism, please answer this question: |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:02 PM |
#39 |
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You ask what is to be gleaned from the questions of a Creationist? |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:07 PM |
#40 |
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Yes everyone looks for answers to things |
mmonk |
Dec-04-07 05:28 PM |
#46 |
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Yes, thank you. |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:39 PM |
#50 |
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Rec by the way--fascinating discussion. |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:24 PM |
#45 |
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It also lends itself to thought processes |
mmonk |
Dec-04-07 05:41 PM |
#53 |
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You are a great thinker: I always read your posts |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 05:45 PM |
#55 |
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Wow. Thanks, I wasn't expecting that. |
mmonk |
Dec-04-07 06:21 PM |
#60 |
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Sorry for blurting that out like that, but it's true. |
Mike03 |
Dec-04-07 06:32 PM |
#62 |
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"Intelligent Design" is not science or scientific |
BuffyTheFundieSlayer |
Dec-04-07 05:38 PM |
#48 |
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We can create, no one else can.... |
The Straight Story |
Dec-04-07 05:50 PM |
#58 |
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matter: neither created nor destroyed |
kineneb |
Dec-04-07 07:11 PM |
#69 |
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Before the big bang there was a vengeful, jealous, wise old God in flowing white robes. Whenever you |
Stop Cornyn |
Dec-04-07 11:31 PM |
#77 |
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Intelligent Design is positive proof |
MetaTrope |
Dec-04-07 11:42 PM |
#78 |
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ID IS NOT SCIENCE! |
SallyMander |
Dec-04-07 11:42 PM |
#79 |
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That's pretty much what I think, as well |
Dorian Gray |
Dec-05-07 08:45 AM |
#99 |
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here's a question |
Skittles |
Dec-05-07 12:05 AM |
#82 |
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Intelligent Design? Where? |
hunter |
Dec-05-07 01:19 AM |
#90 |
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No. there is NOTHING to be gained from the creationist pov in science |
RainDog |
Dec-05-07 09:15 AM |
#100 |
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god shouldnt be a default reason because one is not smart enought to find the real reason |
lionesspriyanka |
Dec-06-07 08:41 AM |
#105 |
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This debate is like Pi.... |
pink-o |
Dec-06-07 09:27 AM |
#106 |