| -Can someone explain the sick relationship that Southern confederate types have |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:17 AM |
#0 |
 -
The confederates had quite a good relationship with |
SharkSquid |
Nov-17-07 09:22 AM |
#1 |
  -
I never knew this. How interesting. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:23 AM |
#2 |
| -
Many members of the "five civilized tribes" were slave owners |
Wiregrass Willie |
Nov-17-07 03:15 PM |
#115 |
| -
Cherokee Sided With The Confederates, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:28 AM |
#3 |
| -
Where were the black hawks in all this? |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:34 AM |
#5 |
| -
No Idea, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:37 AM |
#6 |
| -
Thank you so much! |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:46 AM |
#12 |
| -
Black Hawk = Iowa |
SharonAnn |
Nov-17-07 04:05 PM |
#128 |
| -
Black Hawk |
H2O Man |
Nov-17-07 05:04 PM |
#139 |
| -
Wow. Thanks. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 05:09 PM |
#142 |
| -
Thank You, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:46 PM |
#169 |
| -
Small wonder |
pscot |
Nov-17-07 10:01 AM |
#19 |
| -
Yes, Sherman was a mean s.o.b. The war was nearly over |
DemBones DemBones |
Nov-17-07 10:12 AM |
#29 |
| -
Yes.. note this quote from Sherman on the Indian.. |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 12:00 PM |
#71 |
| -
"a species of pauper." |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 12:07 PM |
#77 |
| -
Just change "Indians" with "Iraqis" and he could be GWB! |
WakeMeUp |
Nov-17-07 02:26 PM |
#110 |
| -
that particular grammatical error comes from a Confederate nostalgia site... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 04:35 PM |
#130 |
| -
It refers to Native Americans... Where, did I state otherwise?.. |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 07:04 PM |
#157 |
| -
you were unaware that the poster you were replying to had gotten his facts wrong... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 11:23 PM |
#192 |
| -
not at all |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 11:38 PM |
#194 |
| -
that link just says "Congratulations to the 2006-2007 EILR candidates"... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 11:49 PM |
#195 |
| -
Archived articles, |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 11:55 PM |
#196 |
| -
Open a damn history book! It was Gen. Winfield Scott, not Sherman! |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 03:16 PM |
#116 |
| -
Cherokee removal happened during the 1830s. Sherman was a teenager then |
NoPasaran |
Nov-17-07 06:20 PM |
#154 |
| -
didn't they also own black slaves? |
alfredo |
Nov-17-07 10:10 AM |
#26 |
| -
yes. |
ulysses |
Nov-17-07 10:32 AM |
#45 |
| -
Have you ever heard Sarah Vowell's essay on the trail of tears? |
alfredo |
Nov-17-07 11:12 AM |
#56 |
| -
Only if you'll explain the sick relationship people on this |
Clark2008 |
Nov-17-07 09:32 AM |
#4 |
| -
Foolish me, I judge people by the way they crap on their neighbors. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:39 AM |
#9 |
| -
Amen. I saw the header and thought, "Here we go again, |
DemBones DemBones |
Nov-17-07 09:54 AM |
#15 |
| -
The South gets off easy compared to Texas, too. nt |
ThruTheLookingGlass |
Nov-17-07 02:31 PM |
#112 |
| -
Total misconception |
DangerDave921 |
Nov-17-07 10:11 AM |
#28 |
| -
Not sure what you're expecting. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:15 AM |
#32 |
| -
What? |
DangerDave921 |
Nov-17-07 10:24 AM |
#42 |
| -
And I am saying that just because someone labels themselves as |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:33 AM |
#47 |
| -
What about extreme Boston lifestyles? |
hack89 |
Nov-17-07 12:01 PM |
#72 |
| -
Oh, I believe you. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 12:08 PM |
#80 |
| -
Try being from Texas |
tammywammy |
Nov-17-07 10:26 AM |
#43 |
| -
West Virginia is decidedly not "Southern" for goodness' sake. The |
coalition_unwilling |
Nov-17-07 02:02 PM |
#101 |
| -
Thought it was Scotch-Irish |
Taverner |
Nov-17-07 11:52 AM |
#66 |
| -
Hmmm.. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 11:59 AM |
#69 |
| -
Confederates and Native Americans know how it feels... |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 09:37 AM |
#7 |
| -
In The Case Of The Confederacy, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:38 AM |
#8 |
| -
You think the U. S. was too soft on the Confederacy?... |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 09:47 AM |
#13 |
| -
I'll settle for putting down their good ole boy networks. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:51 AM |
#14 |
| -
Do you mean you would outlaw freedom of association? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 09:54 AM |
#16 |
| -
I mean I would expose their conspiracies which have harmed members of |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:00 AM |
#18 |
| -
I think that's what the courts are for. n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 10:04 AM |
#21 |
| -
Unless they own the courts too. Good ole boy networks are extensive. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:06 AM |
#23 |
| -
You're talking about cronyism, which isn't just a Southern or Republican phenomenon. n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 10:14 AM |
#31 |
| -
I'm talking about good ole boy networks, which have their roots |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:16 AM |
#35 |
| -
Like I said, it's called "cronyism", and it's widespread. n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 10:19 AM |
#37 |
| -
We will agree, to disagree. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:20 AM |
#39 |
| -
If you have enough first-hand experience to write a book , then write it! |
Nuntius_Barbari |
Nov-17-07 05:08 PM |
#141 |
| -
Well... |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 10:24 AM |
#41 |
| -
Definitely out of step with the Republicans of this era. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:36 AM |
#49 |
| -
Also odd that conservative GOP southerners hate Lincoln |
OzarkDem |
Nov-17-07 04:03 PM |
#127 |
| -
Who would you hang in your "High Treason" mass hangings?... |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 10:37 AM |
#50 |
| -
Response: |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 11:02 AM |
#54 |
| -
I wonder how many thousands of DU posters would hang if the U. S. wanted to press it? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 11:53 AM |
#67 |
| -
Don't be stupid. |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 12:04 PM |
#73 |
| -
But who defines what "aid and comfort to the enemy" is? Somebody like Dick Cheney? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 03:07 PM |
#113 |
| -
It requires adherence first! None of us would pass that. n/t |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 05:02 PM |
#138 |
| -
You mean if present day Republicans succeeded with their coup? |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 12:04 PM |
#75 |
| -
I also was pointing out the legal definition of Treason. |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 12:07 PM |
#78 |
| -
Cheney/Bush don't care about having the "authority" to do something... |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 03:14 PM |
#114 |
| -
President Davis and General Lee were both indicted for treason |
Yupster |
Nov-17-07 09:53 PM |
#171 |
| -
Kind of makes you wonder if this whole State's Rights bullshit the |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:23 PM |
#183 |
| -
All of the above! |
JVS |
Nov-17-07 12:00 PM |
#70 |
| -
Army Officers Above Captain's Rank, And Government Officials About County Commisioner Level, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 01:53 PM |
#98 |
| -
What a sad statement. So bloodthirsty and vengeful. n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 03:19 PM |
#117 |
| -
You Say That Like These Were Bad Things, Sir.... |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:29 PM |
#164 |
| -
To Answer Your Question, Mr. Federfer |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 01:50 PM |
#96 |
| -
So there should have been a thorough "cleansing" of the South? Chilling. n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 03:21 PM |
#118 |
| -
The Normal Processes Of Suppressing Rebellion, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:33 PM |
#166 |
| -
What group survived the civil war that might be a feeder group |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 04:40 PM |
#132 |
| -
The Confederacy was the beneficiary of the most generous surrender terms in history. |
Aristus |
Nov-17-07 01:52 PM |
#97 |
| -
So the U. S. should have executed more White people? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 03:22 PM |
#119 |
| -
just the traitorous ones... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 03:46 PM |
#124 |
| -
What "groups" survived the confederate defeat that might be a |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 04:40 PM |
#131 |
| -
It's okay for the goverment to kill people, as long as you don't like them? |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 05:10 PM |
#143 |
| -
There must be a few screws loose in your head. |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 05:16 PM |
#147 |
| -
The Founding Fathers were also "traitors", weren't they? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 05:26 PM |
#149 |
| -
Yes, if you're a Tory lover. But most of them left the States and moved to the Abacos |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 05:46 PM |
#151 |
| -
lame argument. n/t |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 07:04 PM |
#158 |
| -
And Would Have Been Hanged Had They Lost, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:30 PM |
#165 |
| -
You see, sometimes a little treason is what we need... |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 10:17 PM |
#180 |
| -
Are you suggesting that the confederacy should rise again? |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:29 PM |
#184 |
| -
Do you have a government job? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-18-07 12:28 AM |
#199 |
| -
My Murderous Masters, Mr. Federfer? |
The Magistrate |
Nov-18-07 12:45 AM |
#200 |
| -
and, had they lost, would have received exponentially harsher treatment than did the confederacy |
fishwax |
Nov-18-07 01:27 AM |
#201 |
| -
"Ethnic cleansing"? How are Confederates different than any other American |
Lorien |
Nov-17-07 02:18 PM |
#107 |
| -
they're not -- he's just trying to wallow in victimhood... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 03:47 PM |
#125 |
| -
HELL YEAH! SHERMAN WAS TOO KIND! |
JVS |
Nov-17-07 11:52 AM |
#65 |
| -
Extreme circumstances call for extreme measures |
Taverner |
Nov-17-07 12:04 PM |
#76 |
| -
Yup! |
JVS |
Nov-17-07 12:07 PM |
#79 |
| -
Do you say this re: our current troops in Iraq, Blackwater, |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 12:47 PM |
#84 |
| -
Nope - those are not extreme circumstances |
Taverner |
Nov-17-07 06:09 PM |
#153 |
| -
Would you say this of the current day attrocities against civilians? |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 12:43 PM |
#83 |
| -
Sherman did the right thing in the South, end of story. |
JVS |
Nov-17-07 12:49 PM |
#85 |
| -
You share his disregard for innocent civilians then.. your own people |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 12:55 PM |
#87 |
| -
What do you mean my own people? People who waged war against my country, they sucked! |
JVS |
Nov-17-07 01:10 PM |
#88 |
| -
and raped? |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 01:40 PM |
#91 |
| -
What does his stance on Native Americans have to do with being right about burning the South? |
JVS |
Nov-17-07 01:43 PM |
#92 |
| -
he's your "hero..." |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 01:46 PM |
#93 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-17-07 01:48 PM |
#95 |
| -
There is always a constant whine about the final act to end a war. |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 02:16 PM |
#106 |
| -
because I am not a moral relativist |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 05:00 PM |
#137 |
| -
Gee. Missed the whole history of WWII there. |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 05:06 PM |
#140 |
| -
on balance... we were.. |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 05:18 PM |
#148 |
| -
nice, very nice |
hlthe2b |
Nov-17-07 04:57 PM |
#136 |
| -
The General Was Quite Mild By Historical Standards, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 01:56 PM |
#99 |
| -
I was not being sarcastic. |
JVS |
Nov-17-07 02:04 PM |
#102 |
| -
Please Accept My Apologies, Sir, For My Misunderstanding |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:42 PM |
#168 |
| -
Sherman understood better than most in the North what a |
coalition_unwilling |
Nov-17-07 02:27 PM |
#111 |
| -
The U. S. Government Uber Alles, right pal? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 05:15 PM |
#145 |
| -
Honestly, Mr. Federfer.... |
The Magistrate |
Nov-17-07 09:40 PM |
#167 |
| -
We now have the biggest U. S. Government in history. Do you like it? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 10:15 PM |
#179 |
| -
The Republicans version of big government, is far different than the |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:33 PM |
#185 |
| -
After Hillary's been in office for a while, you won't be able to tell them apart. n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-18-07 12:13 AM |
#198 |
| -
Good post. Right on the money. And yes... |
Joe Fields |
Nov-17-07 06:34 PM |
#155 |
| -
? |
Tuesday Afternoon |
Nov-17-07 09:18 PM |
#163 |
| -
Thank you. We've had our disagreements (over Israeli policy |
coalition_unwilling |
Nov-17-07 02:06 PM |
#104 |
| -
Well, if they understand what it means to be subjugated, they should |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:41 AM |
#10 |
| -
I would suspect that |
SharkSquid |
Nov-17-07 09:45 AM |
#11 |
| -
I suspect that, had the Confederacy would have survived, Hitler would have won WWII. |
tom_paine |
Nov-17-07 10:09 AM |
#24 |
| -
Dude, chill out. n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 10:16 AM |
#34 |
| -
No. Too many people in this country spend too much time with their fingers in their |
tom_paine |
Nov-17-07 10:26 AM |
#44 |
| -
I enjoy reading your posts. They have a great deal of courage in them. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:38 AM |
#51 |
| -
Also, perceptiveness, and your throw-away line, to chill out, didn't exactly |
KCabotDullesMarxIII |
Nov-17-07 12:23 PM |
#82 |
| -
Just one point: |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 12:52 PM |
#86 |
| -
Sorry. And thank you. |
KCabotDullesMarxIII |
Nov-17-07 02:22 PM |
#108 |
| -
Man I wish we could nominate individual posts in a thread |
Chovexani |
Nov-17-07 11:13 AM |
#57 |
| -
If the Confederacy had survived, perhaps |
Yupster |
Nov-17-07 09:56 PM |
#172 |
| -
Have you ever seen "CSA: Confederate States of America"? |
Taverner |
Nov-17-07 12:11 PM |
#81 |
| -
The movie theorised that the Confederacy |
Yupster |
Nov-17-07 09:58 PM |
#173 |
| -
The South had a formidable military |
Taverner |
Nov-17-07 10:01 PM |
#175 |
| -
That's a good one |
Yupster |
Nov-17-07 10:12 PM |
#177 |
| -
Ah, but you see, pre-1960, most white Southerners did not consider |
coalition_unwilling |
Nov-17-07 02:14 PM |
#105 |
| -
Johnny Reb deserved every ounce of jackboot he got |
Taverner |
Nov-17-07 12:04 PM |
#74 |
| -
I hope you don't find yourself under that same boot, my friend. n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 05:29 PM |
#150 |
| -
The average Southerner wasn't hurt by reconstruction one bit |
Taverner |
Nov-17-07 06:08 PM |
#152 |
| -
It was the war that got the average southerner |
Yupster |
Nov-17-07 10:01 PM |
#174 |
| -
Well, they shouldn't have taken arms up against their country |
Taverner |
Nov-17-07 10:07 PM |
#176 |
| -
Should one never take up arms against their country (i.e., government)? n/t |
Al Federfer |
Nov-17-07 10:13 PM |
#178 |
| -
The Government is the Constitution. |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 10:54 PM |
#189 |
| -
They left the Union by formal vote |
Yupster |
Nov-17-07 10:22 PM |
#181 |
| -
Nope. |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 10:50 PM |
#188 |
| -
Well that's what the Supreme Court would have had to decide |
Yupster |
Nov-17-07 10:55 PM |
#190 |
| -
Became a moot point when the south attacked. n/t |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-18-07 12:11 AM |
#197 |
| -
Fort Sumter was the first act of agression. n/t |
NutmegYankee |
Nov-17-07 10:47 PM |
#187 |
| -
African Americans know how it feels to have the white Southern |
coalition_unwilling |
Nov-17-07 02:04 PM |
#103 |
| -
The Cherokee were the largest tribe in the SE |
supernova |
Nov-17-07 09:56 AM |
#17 |
| -
That would explain it. Thank you. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:03 AM |
#20 |
| -
Southerners are not all racist, anyway. I'm reading |
DemBones DemBones |
Nov-17-07 10:06 AM |
#22 |
| -
No, they're not all racist, but, quite frankly, few people have survived |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:10 AM |
#25 |
| -
Thanks for the tip |
supernova |
Nov-17-07 10:11 AM |
#27 |
| -
Exactly |
DangerDave921 |
Nov-17-07 10:18 AM |
#36 |
| -
Innit, though? |
supernova |
Nov-17-07 10:33 AM |
#48 |
| -
Isn't that the truth? |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:40 AM |
#52 |
| -
Me neither. |
supernova |
Nov-17-07 10:57 AM |
#53 |
| -
Oh, I'll look for that book |
tammywammy |
Nov-17-07 10:16 AM |
#33 |
| -
Cherokee Nations declaration of support............. |
BlackVelvet04 |
Nov-17-07 10:13 AM |
#30 |
| -
Thank you! |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:20 AM |
#38 |
| -
Isn't it nice to have |
BlackVelvet04 |
Nov-17-07 10:23 AM |
#40 |
| -
It's part of the human condition. We ALL seek it out in one way or another. |
tom_paine |
Nov-17-07 10:33 AM |
#46 |
| -
Exactly.... |
BlackVelvet04 |
Nov-17-07 11:22 AM |
#59 |
| -
Cherokee is the only tribe they know |
Chovexani |
Nov-17-07 11:09 AM |
#55 |
| -
Did you ever |
Orangeone |
Nov-17-07 11:21 AM |
#58 |
| -
Where do you get your information? n/t |
BlackVelvet04 |
Nov-17-07 11:29 AM |
#61 |
| -
Just my experience |
Orangeone |
Nov-17-07 01:26 PM |
#89 |
| -
not only female, but quite often a princess |
fishwax |
Nov-17-07 01:58 PM |
#100 |
| -
ah yes, the whole "Cherokee Princess" nonsense... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 03:30 PM |
#121 |
| -
That's because Cherokee brides were more "affordable" than "white" brides... |
mitchum |
Nov-17-07 06:36 PM |
#156 |
| -
No, it's not..... |
BlackVelvet04 |
Nov-17-07 11:28 AM |
#60 |
| -
The Eastern Band Cherokee were settled throughout the Southeast |
Lorien |
Nov-17-07 02:22 PM |
#109 |
| -
ironically, their ancestors were the ones who wanted the Cherokee gone... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 03:35 PM |
#122 |
| -
*cough* Pequod *cough* |
Shakespeare |
Nov-17-07 05:16 PM |
#146 |
| -
I know all about it and will never deny it... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 11:36 PM |
#193 |
| -
What a completely ignorant post. |
Shakespeare |
Nov-17-07 05:15 PM |
#144 |
| -
And maybe some of them drive Jeeps.. My guess |
SoCalDem |
Nov-17-07 09:51 PM |
#170 |
| -
First, the "idealization" of a minority within what may be viewed as a successor that minority is |
nealmhughes |
Nov-17-07 11:37 AM |
#62 |
| -
Thanks for the info. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 11:49 AM |
#64 |
| -
Yes |
recovering democrat |
Nov-17-07 01:36 PM |
#90 |
| -
Do you have any more history on McIntosh? |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 04:55 PM |
#135 |
| -
McIntosh |
recovering democrat |
Nov-17-07 07:59 PM |
#159 |
| -
How incredible that land deals show up this early for this family. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:00 PM |
#161 |
| -
McIntoshes and land |
recovering democrat |
Nov-17-07 10:57 PM |
#191 |
| -
I'm reminded of northerners who deny being racists but who are deeply so |
eleny |
Nov-17-07 11:48 AM |
#63 |
| -
They use to say, |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 11:57 AM |
#68 |
| -
you tell me. i cant figure it. my brother INSISTS we are, ... yup... cherokee |
seabeyond |
Nov-17-07 01:46 PM |
#94 |
| -
precisely. n/t |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 04:33 PM |
#129 |
| -
Fake Indians wallowing in other people's victimhood... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 03:26 PM |
#120 |
| -
Actually, Cherokee removal was done under Van Buren, not Jackson! |
nealmhughes |
Nov-17-07 03:41 PM |
#123 |
| -
yeah, I know... |
NorthernSpy |
Nov-17-07 03:59 PM |
#126 |
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love the broad stroke re: "southern confederate types" |
book_worm |
Nov-17-07 04:47 PM |
#133 |
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But, but, I don't live in Chicago or Boston or in the Midwest. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 04:54 PM |
#134 |
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The Irish were horribly discreminated against in the North to name just one other group |
Mutineer |
Nov-17-07 10:22 PM |
#182 |
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How about the Scot-Irish? Don't you think they've overcome their |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 10:38 PM |
#186 |
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They favor the Cherokee |
Ella |
Nov-17-07 08:01 PM |
#160 |
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Keeping secrets does seem to be part of the southern experience. |
The Backlash Cometh |
Nov-17-07 09:02 PM |
#162 |
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Quite true, Ella. |
NOLALady |
Nov-18-07 02:14 AM |
#202 |
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Locking. |
Moderator |
Nov-18-07 05:29 AM |
#203 |
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