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Reply #182: It's already happening in Massachusetts and supposed to go into effect in California also. [View All]

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NotGivingUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-12-07 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #65
182. It's already happening in Massachusetts and supposed to go into effect in California also.
Forcing people to purchase a junk commercial product that screws you every chance they get. Sounds fair, doesn't it?!
:sarcasm:

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  -REQUIRING all Americans to BUY health insurance is NOT universal healthcare!!! NotGivingUp  Nov-12-07 09:03 AM   #0 
  - and who will we buy it from? I'm sure some insurance company that gave to the candidate...  NightWatcher   Nov-12-07 09:05 AM   #1 
  - "Medicare for all" model gets my vote too...  BrklynLiberal   Nov-12-07 09:07 AM   #3 
  - exactly. health insurance is the only weak spot in Edwards' platform. But 90%  robinlynne   Nov-12-07 12:19 PM   #33 
  - Exactly. nt  blondeatlast   Nov-12-07 09:16 AM   #10 
  - I Prefer Medicare for All, Too  ribofunk   Nov-12-07 09:37 AM   #18 
  - Right now the only candidate I am aware of backing Medicare for All is Kucinich  KamaAina   Nov-14-07 05:48 PM   #223 
  - Seems like it should be illegal to FORCE us to buy insurance, doesn't it?  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 01:02 PM   #48 
  - As a senior, I will be "fined" by being charged a higher monthly fee for Medicare Part B  CTyankee   Nov-12-07 04:34 PM   #153 
  - Unbelievable. I wasn't aware of the over 65 situation. That's really pitiful. n/t  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 08:10 PM   #183 
     - For me it isn't, thank god, but I don't know about other, poorer seniors.  CTyankee   Nov-13-07 07:59 AM   #197 
        - Yes, it's impossible for health care to be free.  NotGivingUp   Nov-13-07 12:23 PM   #204 
  - I'm forced to buy car insurance, most ppl are, and  Pahket   Nov-13-07 05:44 PM   #212 
  - if hospitals can be forced to treat your sorry ass  bpeale   Nov-13-07 05:52 PM   #213 
  - Forced health insurance = corporate welfare to insurance companies  havocmom   Nov-17-07 09:47 AM   #231 
  - I think all our Dems allow you to buy into Medicare if you want  IronLionZion   Nov-12-07 02:04 PM   #80 
  - except right now you can't just buy into Medicare, you just are able to get it  yellowdogintexas   Nov-13-07 09:31 PM   #216 
     - Expect significant changes when a Dem takes the white house nt  IronLionZion   Nov-14-07 10:55 AM   #221 
        - I should hope so. nt  yellowdogintexas   Nov-14-07 05:39 PM   #222 
  - sure smells like f*cking snake oil to me.  Whisp   Nov-13-07 06:03 PM   #214 
  - what's affordable when you don't even have 50 bucks to spare?  Maine-ah   Nov-12-07 09:07 AM   #2 
  - I think Clinton's plan talks about expansion of Medicaid upward.  CTyankee   Nov-12-07 04:42 PM   #157 
  - What about people who are currently "uninsurable" due to preexisting conditions? nt  thecatburgler   Nov-12-07 09:07 AM   #4 
  - A bonus.  HypnoToad   Nov-12-07 09:11 AM   #5 
  - ALL the candidates plans would eliminate the "pre-existing condition"  napi21   Nov-12-07 09:17 AM   #11 
  - Well that's good. But I hope ins. cos. won't be able to charge exhorbitant rates. nt  thecatburgler   Nov-12-07 09:46 AM   #21 
  - Clinton's plan limits premiums  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:03 PM   #49 
  - BFD.. limited premiums translates into "tiered" coverage & co-pays  SoCalDem   Nov-12-07 06:27 PM   #175 
  - See my response # 62 about COBRA  truedelphi   Nov-12-07 01:46 PM   #66 
  - that is the point of grouping everyone into the huge coverage pool  yellowdogintexas   Nov-13-07 09:34 PM   #217 
  - thank you for researching that and letting us know  GloriaSmith   Nov-12-07 02:53 PM   #133 
  - My pre-existing condition is being unemployed. No one wants to insure me. nt  MookieWilson   Nov-12-07 09:23 AM   #14 
  - Under Clinton's plan, you will have insurance  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:22 PM   #56 
     - If you have the money to pay for it.  OzarkDem   Nov-12-07 04:45 PM   #160 
  - They will go without coverage and care  OzarkDem   Nov-12-07 04:44 PM   #159 
  - I've seen Edwards speak about his plan and as he describes it,  Feeney2   Nov-12-07 09:11 AM   #6 
  - No kidding.  LWolf   Nov-12-07 09:12 AM   #7 
  - exactly to some people there is no affordable price, none whatsoever  madokie   Nov-12-07 09:12 AM   #8 
  - We must shake the profit motive off our health care!  librechik   Nov-12-07 09:15 AM   #9 
  - LOL!  Swamp Rat   Nov-12-07 09:29 AM   #17 
  - Thanks for throwing me under the bus  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:05 PM   #83 
  - They all make it sooooo damn complicated  jzodda   Nov-12-07 09:21 AM   #12 
  - Buying is fine so long as you don't do so as an individual or can be denied, as is the case now. nt  MookieWilson   Nov-12-07 09:22 AM   #13 
  - Characteristics of a single-payer, universal access health care system:  warren pease   Nov-12-07 09:23 AM   #15 
  - Great post! I agree with you 100%. And, yes, Kucinich is the ONLY one  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 12:38 PM   #36 
  - Excellent Post.  dubyadubya3   Nov-12-07 06:58 PM   #177 
  - That's correct.  mmonk   Nov-12-07 09:26 AM   #16 
  - Yep. And money that is those Insurance Co. bank acounts doesn't go to care. It goes to  John Q. Citizen   Nov-12-07 09:40 AM   # 
  - Don't forget Bidens plan  Froward69   Nov-12-07 12:43 PM   #39 
     - Naive maybe, but not necessarily wrong.  mmonk   Nov-12-07 04:40 PM   #155 
        - I agree  Froward69   Nov-12-07 04:49 PM   #161 
           - Of course, I know that isn't going to happen though.  mmonk   Nov-13-07 06:34 AM   #194 
  - Health Insurance doesn't actually insure you for anything  harun   Nov-12-07 09:40 AM   #19 
  - Is there a real difference between forcing to buy, and raising taxes to pay for a .gov-run system?  slackmaster   Nov-12-07 09:44 AM   #20 
  - yes  JVS   Nov-12-07 09:50 AM   #22 
  - Yes, because taxes are progressive, premiums are generally not n/t  frazzled   Nov-12-07 09:52 AM   #23 
  - The costs are "progressive" also.  cuke   Nov-12-07 12:50 PM   #42 
  - Only if the tax for health care is keyed to progressive taxation in the first place.  CTyankee   Nov-12-07 04:53 PM   #164 
  - Yes there is...  ljm2002   Nov-12-07 09:56 AM   #24 
  - You didn't answer the question  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:01 PM   #46 
     - I did not post to argue...  ljm2002   Nov-12-07 04:11 PM   #147 
        - Your demand for the whole enchilada as you put it can only work if our  CTyankee   Nov-13-07 01:46 PM   #206 
           - We're in primary season now...  ljm2002   Nov-13-07 03:17 PM   #207 
              - Sorry for my use of the word "demand." That was a bit harsh and I don't think you  CTyankee   Nov-13-07 04:09 PM   #210 
                 - No prob, I didn't really take it as harsh...  ljm2002   Nov-13-07 08:48 PM   #215 
                    - In all fairness to your opponents on this board, I think their desperation is what drives  CTyankee   Nov-14-07 08:17 AM   #220 
  - Yes. Public system = not for profit.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:11 PM   #53 
  - Even with single payer, there will still be profit in the health care system  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:38 PM   #110 
     - Yeah, for those providing care. Not for those being middle men.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:42 PM   #117 
  - Yes, a lot  OzarkDem   Nov-12-07 04:50 PM   #163 
     - Payroll taxes start at dollar one unlike a progressive income tax. You HAVE to pay payroll taxes.  CTyankee   Nov-12-07 04:58 PM   #167 
        - Cost control  OzarkDem   Nov-12-07 05:01 PM   #168 
           - Ihope you are not putting me in a category with Republicans! If so, I didn'tmean to imply that I was  CTyankee   Nov-12-07 07:42 PM   #179 
  - i bet 95% of the hospital and doctors business office personal  madrchsod   Nov-12-07 10:03 AM   #25 
  - But it is a boon to the Insurance Lobby and Reps with stocks in those companies  Supersedeas   Nov-12-07 10:33 AM   #26 
  - Americans need Health Care, not insurance  daa   Nov-12-07 12:08 PM   #27 
  - K&R Universal Health Insurance partially funded by tax credits  slipslidingaway   Nov-12-07 12:11 PM   #28 
  - yep...what a bunch of crap! n/t  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 12:43 PM   #38 
  - Well, it keeps the Health Insurance industry healthy.  Atman   Nov-12-07 12:13 PM   #29 
  - Certainly does seem that way! Good cartoon! n/t  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 12:54 PM   #44 
  - But does it put care intothe hands of the treating physician?  hootinholler   Nov-12-07 12:15 PM   #30 
  - K&R  gateley   Nov-12-07 12:17 PM   #31 
  - And if Congress does not approve MY plan I'll try and take away  slipslidingaway   Nov-12-07 12:18 PM   #32 
  - Either you accept health care as a RIGHT or you do not.  Milo_Bloom   Nov-12-07 12:20 PM   #34 
  - Yes, they'll be able to FORCE you to PURHCASE insurance that will only look for ways to SCREW you.  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 12:47 PM   #40 
     - You can buy insurance from the govt. The same plan Congress gets  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:02 PM   #47 
        - Which are still private plans.  Milo_Bloom   Nov-12-07 01:12 PM   #55 
           - So what?  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:26 PM   #57 
              - So EVERYTHING.  Milo_Bloom   Nov-12-07 02:07 PM   #85 
                 - You're still trying to change the subject  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:16 PM   #91 
                    - I did address the subject, EXACTLY ON POINT.  Milo_Bloom   Nov-12-07 02:20 PM   #95 
  - the insurance industry is a major part of the problem....  mike_c   Nov-12-07 12:33 PM   #35 
  - Industry: Health Care Plans... Market Cap 192.4B link...  slipslidingaway   Nov-12-07 12:40 PM   #37 
  - If we have to go with a mandatory insurance scheme, I have a non-negotiable demand.  backscatter712   Nov-12-07 12:49 PM   #41 
  - and i don't think they're gonna go for that one...too much risk!  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 12:59 PM   #45 
  - Clinton's plan includes EVERY thing you asked for  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:05 PM   #50 
  - i'm not going along with anything that doesn't include getting rid of the insurance companies. n/t  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 01:07 PM   #51 
     - No universal plan is acceptable as long as it includes PROFITS for leeches.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:11 PM   #54 
        - Thanks for throwing me under the bus  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:28 PM   #58 
           - It's not me, it's dems who won't risk pissing off the insurance industry. (nt)  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:39 PM   #61 
              - So throw me under the bus and blame the dems  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:01 PM   #78 
                 - What can *I* do about it now, praytell?  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:04 PM   #81 
                    - Support Universal Health Care  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:17 PM   #92 
                       - Never.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:22 PM   #98 
                       - So how will being forced to buy from a private insurance company help you  Lydia Leftcoast   Nov-12-07 05:15 PM   #171 
  - We can have it all by getting it from the smokers.  Beerboy   Nov-12-07 12:53 PM   #43 
  - Could you possibly  Pastiche423   Nov-12-07 06:48 PM   #176 
  - YAY corporatism!  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:09 PM   #52 
  - YAY killing poor people  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:32 PM   #59 
     - Wait? Why wait?  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:38 PM   #60 
     - The insured don't want govt provided insurance  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:44 PM   #63 
        - Who said anyone would be forced to switch?  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:49 PM   #67 
        - Under Single Payer, their current insurance companies won't exist  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:52 PM   #69 
           - Wrong wrong wrong...  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:53 PM   #72 
              - What do you think "single payer" means?  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:03 PM   #79 
                 - *sigh*  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:04 PM   #82 
                    - It's a simple question  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:18 PM   #93 
                       - I'll let you look that one up.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:22 PM   #99 
        - The majority are NOT satisfied with their coverage  Lydia Leftcoast   Nov-12-07 05:17 PM   #173 
        - They are only satified if they don't really have to USE it!  annabanana   Nov-14-07 05:55 PM   #226 
     - so, according to you..it is the progressives who want universal health care  angstlessk   Nov-14-07 05:54 PM   #225 
  - COBRA is the original CLINTON health care insurance nightmare  truedelphi   Nov-12-07 01:43 PM   #62 
  - Do you prefer no insurance at all when you get laid off?  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:45 PM   #64 
     - That's what happens *with* COBRA, too...  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:50 PM   #68 
     - Without COBRA it always happened  cuke   Nov-12-07 01:56 PM   #73 
     - COBRA doesn't pay your insurance.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:57 PM   #75 
     - Hello? COBRA isn't free.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:12 PM   #89 
        - Hello? COBRA reduces the cost by more than 50%  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:19 PM   #94 
           - You may be misguided if you can afford COBRA yet think you're poor.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:21 PM   #97 
           - I can't afford COBRA  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:23 PM   #100 
              - I see.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:23 PM   #101 
              - Have you ever heard of medical bankruptcy?  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:34 PM   #105 
                 - Yes, insurance. For a price.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:35 PM   #106 
                    - No, poor people get insurance for free  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:37 PM   #109 
                       - How does UHC magically mean everyone can afford it?  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:41 PM   #114 
                          - Tax credits, and subsidies  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:44 PM   #122 
                             - So you're in favor of handing tax money to insurance execs.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:45 PM   #125 
                                - Cuke wants to get "free" insurance for herself (if  bvar22   Nov-12-07 03:54 PM   #141 
                                   - You don't start out from a position of compromise.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 03:55 PM   #142 
              - Then why defend it?  supernova   Nov-12-07 02:27 PM   #103 
                 - It helps make health insurance affordable for some  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:36 PM   #108 
                    - The issue is we have the opportunity  supernova   Nov-12-07 02:45 PM   #124 
           - Not always  dflprincess   Nov-12-07 02:43 PM   #120 
              - That is true. Thanks for point that out  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:45 PM   #126 
                 - It really isn't.  Feron   Nov-12-07 08:12 PM   #184 
     - I am SO convinced that *most * Hillary Clinton Supporters  truedelphi   Nov-12-07 01:59 PM   #77 
        - It's made me decide to change my resgistration to Independent  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:05 PM   #84 
        - $750,000 . . . you're kidding, right?  Vinca   Nov-12-07 02:08 PM   #86 
        - Actually, I do live with my Mommy  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:21 PM   #96 
           - The role of Alzh. caregiver is a rough one. Try and get some  truedelphi   Nov-12-07 02:53 PM   #134 
     - COBRA is no longer affordable for many  OzarkDem   Nov-12-07 05:12 PM   #170 
  - What if I don't want health insurance?  DangerDave921   Nov-12-07 01:46 PM   #65 
  - Some candidates' plans will do exactly that.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 01:52 PM   #70 
  - If they enact what's on offer now  supernova   Nov-12-07 01:52 PM   #71 
  - Definitions  DangerDave921   Nov-12-07 01:57 PM   #74 
  - It's not free as in doctors don't get paid.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:10 PM   #87 
  - There will still be incentives to limit care with SP  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:39 PM   #112 
     - That's funny.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:41 PM   #115 
        - Yes, and they face pressures to limit services  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:45 PM   #123 
           - Sure, just like every other business. There's no PROFIT  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:46 PM   #127 
  - Definitions  supernova   Nov-12-07 02:12 PM   #88 
  - But the private insurance companies in Britain have not gone out  slipslidingaway   Nov-12-07 02:24 PM   #102 
     - But at least they  supernova   Nov-12-07 02:32 PM   #104 
        - Under the proposed plans, you can get your insurance from the govt  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:42 PM   #116 
           - Congress members get their insurance from for-profit, private insurers.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:43 PM   #118 
              - And it's paid for by the govt  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:46 PM   #128 
                 - You don't seem to have a problem with tax money going to profit insurance execs.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:47 PM   #129 
                 - In reality  supernova   Nov-12-07 02:49 PM   #132 
  - are you insane????  LSK   Nov-12-07 02:44 PM   #121 
  - There are lots of people who think like that  cuke   Nov-12-07 02:47 PM   #130 
  - There used to be lots more racists.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 02:48 PM   #131 
  - see this thread  LSK   Nov-12-07 03:00 PM   #136 
  - I don't trust banks  DangerDave921   Nov-12-07 02:56 PM   #135 
     - Actually health insurance protects 'the other guy', too.  redqueen   Nov-12-07 03:27 PM   #137 
     - its not about you, when you rack up $100,000 in bills that cant be paid  LSK   Nov-12-07 03:46 PM   #139 
        - So?  DangerDave921   Nov-12-07 04:00 PM   #143 
           - ah yes, the "me me me" attitude  LSK   Nov-12-07 04:02 PM   #144 
              - Excuse me  DangerDave921   Nov-12-07 04:20 PM   #150 
                 - the whole notion of universal healthcare is not "free"  LSK   Nov-12-07 04:28 PM   #151 
                 - Free  DangerDave921   Nov-12-07 04:33 PM   #152 
                    - in a democracy, the government is us  LSK   Nov-12-07 04:40 PM   #156 
                    - even with single-payer universal healthcare, i would expect some type of co-pay for office visits...  QuestionAll   Nov-13-07 08:08 AM   #198 
                       - overuse  DangerDave921   Nov-13-07 03:21 PM   #208 
                          - that's what the co-pay would hopefully accomplish...  QuestionAll   Nov-13-07 05:14 PM   #211 
                 - Health care, like food and water, is a staple of life.  Feron   Nov-12-07 08:34 PM   #188 
                    - OK  DangerDave921   Nov-13-07 06:52 AM   #195 
  - It's already happening in Massachusetts and supposed to go into effect in California also.  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 08:07 PM   #182 
  - It would be like auto insurance you get waht you can afford if  blues90   Nov-12-07 01:58 PM   #76 
  - It would reduce the burden on emergency rooms,  IronLionZion   Nov-12-07 02:13 PM   #90 
  - Don't several countries, like Switzerland, do similar?  NewJeffCT   Nov-12-07 02:35 PM   #107 
  - K&R!!  derby378   Nov-12-07 02:39 PM   #111 
  - What happened to selling Medicare on the open market to  Cleita   Nov-12-07 02:40 PM   #113 
  - NOTHING HAPPENED TO IT, THE OP FOR SOME REASON DIDNT INCLUDE IT  LSK   Nov-12-07 02:43 PM   #119 
     - I know that's what made Edward's plan brilliant so I was  Cleita   Nov-12-07 04:03 PM   #145 
     - that language is "soft"  OzarkDem   Nov-12-07 05:06 PM   #169 
        - ANY plan would have to go through Congress  LSK   Nov-12-07 05:16 PM   #172 
        - i'm betting you're right. n/t  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 08:29 PM   #187 
  - we HAVE universal single payer health care here  BelgianMadCow   Nov-12-07 03:38 PM   #138 
  - Thank you for providing some insight from a country  redqueen   Nov-12-07 03:46 PM   #140 
  - Your earlier attempts are what made me post  BelgianMadCow   Nov-12-07 04:16 PM   #149 
     - Hah!  redqueen   Nov-12-07 04:50 PM   #162 
  - We have resources right here to look at how other countries do  Cleita   Nov-12-07 04:05 PM   #146 
     - It is especially the "it can't be paid for" fear mongering that baffles me  BelgianMadCow   Nov-12-07 04:14 PM   #148 
        - Thanks for your sanity, BelgianMadCow  supernova   Nov-12-07 08:24 PM   #186 
  - Sorry, but that's what we're going to be stuck with  OzarkDem   Nov-12-07 04:39 PM   #154 
  - Just wondering if you had anyone from healthcare on your project  LeftCoast   Nov-13-07 12:27 PM   #205 
  - If the Edwards plan strictly regulated those Insurance companies  cyclezealot   Nov-12-07 04:43 PM   #158 
  - If, if, if...  OzarkDem   Nov-12-07 04:53 PM   #165 
  - agreed.  cyclezealot   Nov-12-07 06:25 PM   #174 
  - yep, silly or just saying whatever to get elected. n/t  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 09:07 PM   #191 
  - What I like about Clinton's plan could accomplish what you want and that's why I like it.  CTyankee   Nov-13-07 08:15 AM   #199 
  - That is the point I make constantly  onethatcares   Nov-12-07 04:53 PM   #166 
  - I want healthcare coverage (at a certain modest level) by mere virtue  kestrel91316   Nov-12-07 07:32 PM   #178 
  - what you talking  undercutter2006   Nov-12-07 07:57 PM   #180 
  - But ins. cos don't  supernova   Nov-12-07 07:59 PM   #181 
  - the insurance companies are the problem and need to be eliminated  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 08:21 PM   #185 
     - the fat cats do do something  undercutter2006   Nov-12-07 08:35 PM   #189 
     - ...  redqueen   Nov-13-07 09:11 AM   #201 
     - And?  DangerDave921   Nov-13-07 06:57 AM   #196 
        - There's no incentive to refuse care.  redqueen   Nov-13-07 09:11 AM   #202 
        - Medicare runs about 2-3% of expense in admin costs  supernova   Nov-13-07 03:23 PM   #209 
  - edwards should jusy bite the bullet...  rndmprsn   Nov-12-07 08:49 PM   #190 
  - it would be a very good move. nobody wants to do it except kucinich. n/t  NotGivingUp   Nov-12-07 11:15 PM   #192 
  - Health care market are absolutely ridiculous  eridani   Nov-13-07 04:18 AM   #193 
  - Boeing pays more per capita than the corner hardware store  nancyharris   Nov-13-07 08:27 AM   #200 
  - OK, they pay less per capita/per benefit, then  eridani   Nov-13-07 11:43 PM   #219 
  - Why make it more expensive? To benefit stockholders, of course. (nt)  redqueen   Nov-13-07 09:13 AM   #203 
  - heck, even if all they promised us was well child, mammograms,  yellowdogintexas   Nov-13-07 09:37 PM   #218 
  - Thank you  JFN1   Nov-14-07 05:50 PM   #224 
  - There is no such thing as "free health care"  Angela Shelley   Nov-17-07 08:44 AM   #227 
  - Well, well, well, here we go again  supernova   Nov-17-07 08:52 AM   #228 
  - even republicans like that last idea. I don't  yurbud   Nov-17-07 09:23 AM   #229 
  - instead of giving insurance companies checks, we should be writing warrants for their arrests  yurbud   Nov-17-07 09:25 AM   #230 
 

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