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Reply #24: I disagree. It's not difficult to separate economic libertarianism from social libertarianism. [View All]

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I disagree. It's not difficult to separate economic libertarianism from social libertarianism.
It's very simple, but it requires the ability to separate small-l libertarianism the philosophy from the big-L Libertarian Party. And the recognition that NEITHER party is speaking effectively to people who want civil liberties restored, want the government out of citizens' bodies, bedrooms, and bloodstreams, want an end to the drug war, want prison space reserved for violent criminals and not pot smoking cancer grannies, don't think government should be in the business of censoring films or pictures of consenting adults having sex, think gays should have full equal rights, including marriage rights, etc.

And as for the economic libs being "worse"... Well, look at it this way- right now the GOP has embodied the absolute WORST of the WORST of the economic libertarian philosophy- frankly, business regulation and oversight has been stripped down as much as physically feasable. If you think there are folks out there who are MORE anti-regulation and oversight than the Bushies, give them their number, and the Bushies will hire them. But what the GOP has done is combined this with spending like a drunken sailor on shit like Iraq.

That's why I say we can reach ALL the libertarian types- even the economic ones- because they have to know that no matter who is in charge, SOME money is going to be spent by gov't. So should it be on a SPHC system, or on idiotic wars based on lies? Research into clean renewable fuels? Or the Military Industrial Complex?

I think the place for our party to start is to articulate a strong, across the board personal freedom agenda- equal rights for GLBT citizens (incl. marriage), unapologetic support for reproductive freedom, an end to the worst idiocies of the drug war, the right of terminally ill people to a pain-free, dignified exit of their own choosing, getting gov't out of the censorship/morals business where consenting adults are concerned, etc.

Then combine that with support for a SPHC system, a liveable minimum wage, investments in our infrastructure, etc. Explain to the econo-libs why these things make sense from a fiscal standpoint, and in the process we would bring on board disaffected greens as well.

The only people who it would piss off are the DLC conventional wisdom folks, who want the party to be nothing except GOP-lite.
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  -Kinsley: The party that reels in these voters will dominate the future of American politics. impeachdubya  Oct-28-07 07:48 PM   #0 
  - woot woot!!!  piedmont   Oct-28-07 07:50 PM   #1 
  - K&R  Drum   Oct-28-07 07:52 PM   #2 
  - When I try to decide...  sendero   Oct-28-07 08:03 PM   #3 
  - I think the distinction needs to be made amongst the various types of libertarian philosophies out  impeachdubya   Oct-28-07 10:36 PM   #11 
  - Na, the Libertarians are in general more dangerous than the Repubs  Az   Oct-29-07 05:19 AM   #20 
     - Exactly...  sendero   Oct-29-07 06:51 AM   #22 
  - It's not true that people are tending more libertarian on economic issues.  GOPBasher   Oct-28-07 08:11 PM   #4 
  - That's the logical flaw in these kinds of generalizations. I make a big distinction between  impeachdubya   Oct-28-07 09:50 PM   #7 
  - k&r  williesgirl   Oct-28-07 09:03 PM   #5 
  - michael kinsley lost me awhile back. i seem to remember something  orleans   Oct-28-07 09:20 PM   #6 
  - Ditto. He pooh-poohed biggest story of his time.  philly_bob   Oct-28-07 10:12 PM   #8 
  - Kinsley has Parkinsons, unless I'm mistaken. I suspect he's as pissed off as anyone that the fundy  impeachdubya   Oct-29-07 12:59 AM   #13 
     - The reason  ShadowLiberal   Oct-29-07 01:19 AM   #14 
        - I think it's a lie, frankly, perpetuated by the corporate media. And it's falling apart.  impeachdubya   Oct-29-07 01:31 AM   #15 
  - Ugh. I'd rather chase after values voters than libertarians  provis99   Oct-28-07 10:14 PM   #9 
  - I guess you didn't really want to read the article.  impeachdubya   Oct-28-07 10:38 PM   #12 
     - So true.  artemisia1   Oct-29-07 01:37 AM   #16 
     - This is where there is wiggle room  Az   Oct-29-07 05:21 AM   #21 
     - The problem is..  sendero   Oct-29-07 06:55 AM   #23 
        - I disagree. It's not difficult to separate economic libertarianism from social libertarianism.  impeachdubya   Oct-29-07 02:41 PM   #24 
  - I knew libertarians in Oregon  Lydia Leftcoast   Oct-28-07 10:25 PM   #10 
  - Here's the ever popular political compass test.  impeachdubya   Oct-29-07 01:58 AM   #17 
  - I really like this part  qdemn7   Oct-29-07 05:00 AM   #18 
  - Libertarians are fanatics  Az   Oct-29-07 05:16 AM   #19 
  - Big-L Libertarian Party members, maybe. People with small-l libertarian philosophical Points of View  impeachdubya   Oct-29-07 02:43 PM   #25 
  - I get really tired...  VelmaD   Oct-29-07 03:25 PM   #26 
     - For decades, the term "civil libertarians" was used for what ImpeachDubya terms "small-L"or left-lib  Bongo Prophet   Oct-29-07 04:40 PM   #27 
     - How many self-identified small-l libertarians have you come across on DU who are anti-choice?  impeachdubya   Oct-29-07 05:11 PM   #28 

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