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Reply #154: Correct, my brother and I have been talking about it [View All]

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #152
154. Correct, my brother and I have been talking about it
and some of its problems

One of them is the two party system, which is by default the only possible result the way it is written... and those thwo will not let the needed reforms...

It has weakneses, but that is beucase it is a product of men, well intentioned men, but it has some problems
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  -Has the United States reached the point where break up nadinbrzezinski  Oct-26-07 12:31 PM   #0 
  - Divide and conquer?  redqueen   Oct-26-07 12:35 PM   #1 
  - For any student of how civil wars develop  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:38 PM   # 
  - I know things are potentially that bad.  redqueen   Oct-26-07 12:40 PM   #8 
  - If different regions became successor states  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:42 PM   #15 
     - That's just silly.  redqueen   Oct-26-07 12:43 PM   #18 
     - As a STUDENT of history  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:45 PM   #22 
        - Let's assume for a moment that...  LanternWaste   Oct-26-07 01:26 PM   #61 
        - That 281 million flags...  redqueen   Oct-26-07 02:21 PM   #96 
           - Yeah-- I wasn't thinking of that word...  LanternWaste   Oct-26-07 03:47 PM   #111 
              - Boiled sugar becomes syrup.  lonestarnot   Oct-27-07 08:22 AM   #182 
        - Think Byzantium in the 6th and 7th Centuries  depakid   Oct-26-07 01:58 PM   #87 
        - I think our national identidy is much stronger  Yupster   Oct-26-07 07:54 PM   #167 
           - Curiously, the same time period you mention,  SimpleTrend   Oct-27-07 03:12 PM   #198 
     - michigan wouldn't have to worry about "crazy californians"?? meaning WHAT, exactly?  niyad   Oct-26-07 01:03 PM   #41 
        - Look at the stereotypes perpetuated  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:04 PM   #42 
           - nice try--YOU are the one who started this discusssion, YOU TELL ME what you think is going  niyad   Oct-26-07 01:12 PM   #49 
              - Well my thesis is that this country is no longer a country  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:15 PM   #51 
                 - you know, capitalizing HISTORIANS and the other words does not make or prove  niyad   Oct-26-07 01:27 PM   #62 
                    - Go to GD and find posts by a fellow michiganer I am guessing  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:30 PM   #66 
                    - I see, you can't answer the questions posed on your own. and you didn't  niyad   Oct-26-07 01:38 PM   #75 
                       - You're opinion that is fine  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:40 PM   #77 
                    - Go to GD and find posts by a fellow michiganer I am guessing  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:30 PM   #67 
                       - I didn't advocate secession: I HUMBLY said I didn't understand.  Tyler Durden   Oct-26-07 01:41 PM   #79 
                          - And it is not only you that does not understand people  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:45 PM   #83 
  - I don't think the fault lines of disunion  leftofthedial   Oct-26-07 12:56 PM   #35 
  - THey are economic and even ethnic at this point  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:58 PM   #38 
     - Mexico has a far greater chance of breaking up than we do. So does Canada.  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 02:00 PM   #88 
        - I truly fear those divisions are actually increasing  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 02:06 PM   #91 
        - Mexico has far more division. Look at the indigenous areas like Oaxaca,  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 02:20 PM   #95 
           - Yes, they do  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 02:23 PM   #97 
              - But Deep Apalachia isn't talking about succesion. The inner city looks like another  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 02:33 PM   #99 
                 - I see the signs of a civil war in this country  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 03:52 PM   #112 
                 - At this point, I don't think so -- there's too much unanimity regarding President Sluggo  melody   Oct-27-07 02:56 AM   #178 
                    - How is the rest of the country dragging  sadiesworld   Oct-27-07 09:38 AM   #185 
                       - That was overstatement to make a point ... obviously I only mean very red states  melody   Oct-27-07 01:23 PM   #187 
                 - Deep Appalachia .. as in US southern Appalachia ... has always been more liberal  melody   Oct-26-07 03:59 PM   #120 
        - Here in Vermont, the idea is taken quite seriously  Oak2004   Oct-27-07 02:08 PM   #193 
  - Point by point, how you are wrong.  Bucky   Oct-26-07 01:17 PM   #52 
  - it is not only regional political differences, or cultural wars,  antifaschits   Oct-26-07 01:52 PM   #86 
     - As I said down thread  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 02:02 PM   #89 
  - Corporatists would probably hate the break up  in search of sanity   Oct-26-07 12:42 PM   #14 
     - It goes against the trend of a single norht american guv'ment  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:43 PM   #17 
     - No they don't.  redqueen   Oct-26-07 12:44 PM   #19 
     - They'd have greater results out of regions with which they are in concert though  melody   Oct-27-07 01:27 PM   #189 
  - I think it won't end in secession but rather simply dissolving the central government.  Selatius   Oct-26-07 12:37 PM   #2 
  - Apples and oranges, though.  SteppingRazor   Oct-26-07 12:39 PM   #6 
  - True, but any break-up would likely be due to economic factors. The Civil War is an example.  Selatius   Oct-26-07 12:49 PM   #30 
  - I'm thinking the Soviet scenario is mostly possible  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:39 PM   #7 
  - I agree  martymar64   Oct-26-07 05:53 PM   #153 
  - And there will come a time- perhaps not too long from now  depakid   Oct-26-07 02:12 PM   #93 
     - This is already happening.  Tesha   Oct-26-07 05:00 PM   #143 
        - I used to live in Massachusetts coincidentally, Salem to be exact.  Selatius   Oct-26-07 06:00 PM   #155 
  - I've spoken here often in favor of that breakup and I've often cited that book...  Tesha   Oct-26-07 12:37 PM   #3 
  - Oh that book has been used  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:40 PM   #9 
  - I don't see how you get to a peaceful breakup.  SteppingRazor   Oct-26-07 12:37 PM   #4 
  - That is where the shooting comes  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:41 PM   #11 
     - Even leaving aside natural resources, what about moneymaking economies?  SteppingRazor   Oct-26-07 12:44 PM   #21 
        - Do we have an identification as AMERICANS?  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:49 PM   #29 
        - I don't think Empty would want Vegas.  Xithras   Oct-26-07 01:04 PM   #43 
  - Washington DC should just separate. that would solve a lot of problems.  Xenotime   Oct-26-07 12:38 PM   #5 
  - I favor a break up.  Sentinel Chicken   Oct-26-07 12:40 PM   #10 
  - Problem with that is the Fundies  NeedleCast   Oct-26-07 01:13 PM   #50 
     - Religion is dying out. There are revivals, but each revival is smaller than the last.  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 02:06 PM   #90 
        - Lol, yeah keep telling yourself that  spoony   Oct-27-07 08:15 AM   #180 
  - I agree.  realpolitik   Oct-26-07 12:42 PM   #12 
  - of course not  madokie   Oct-26-07 12:42 PM   #13 
  - I fear it goes beyond the Bush Crime family  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:46 PM   #24 
  - yeah i dont see it  fenriswolf   Oct-26-07 12:43 PM   #16 
  - I'm all for it. It would be nice to live in a "2nd rate" power.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Oct-26-07 12:44 PM   #20 
  - A looser federation might work. Breaking up the mega states world wide seems to be trend.  terisan   Oct-26-07 12:46 PM   #23 
  - The water wars will be a driving force of this  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:47 PM   #27 
     - Yes the western water wars will be big; Georgia can get by on half its annual non-drought rainfall  terisan   Oct-26-07 01:19 PM   #57 
     - Cadillac Desert- rec. reading n/t  kineneb   Oct-26-07 02:15 PM   #94 
        - Critical readying actually  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 04:17 PM   #130 
  - Maybe, but leave Canada out of it...nt  SidDithers   Oct-26-07 12:47 PM   #25 
  - That book is an example  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:50 PM   #31 
  - Gotcha...  SidDithers   Oct-26-07 12:55 PM   #33 
     - If it comes to it  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:56 PM   #36 
  - Why would Canada even come "into it"? n/t  melody   Oct-26-07 01:18 PM   #54 
  - Well, for one, because New England has far more in common with the Atlantic Provinces...  Tesha   Oct-26-07 05:07 PM   #144 
  - All the US/Canadian border states have more in common with each other than their other regions  melody   Oct-27-07 03:13 PM   #199 
  - To accept seceding or orphan states into the Canada as provinces?  amandabeech   Oct-27-07 01:56 PM   #191 
  - I don't think Canada CAN stay out of it.  Xithras   Oct-26-07 01:24 PM   #59 
  - I think I would move the northern edge of "Ecotopia"  Blue_In_AK   Oct-26-07 12:47 PM   #26 
  - I'd hope we wouldn't break things down ethnically  shadowknows69   Oct-26-07 12:49 PM   #28 
  - Not unless we can afford to pay the 42 percent of us  Clark2008   Oct-26-07 12:53 PM   #32 
  - Well, ethnic cleansing is happening in Iraq,  amandabeech   Oct-27-07 01:58 PM   #192 
  - absolutely yes -- it will happen anyway  villager   Oct-26-07 12:55 PM   #34 
  - I think closer than mid century  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 12:59 PM   #40 
     - or as Michael Ventura sets it out in his column:  villager   Oct-26-07 01:32 PM   #68 
        - I'll have to read that later, thanks  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:34 PM   #71 
  - Ecotopia, ironically, would have the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons in the world--  paxmusa   Oct-26-07 12:56 PM   #37 
  - Think DC would let you KEEP them?  Tyler Durden   Oct-26-07 01:44 PM   #80 
  - Ummm, no, so don't get your panties in a wad.  paxmusa   Oct-26-07 06:53 PM   #163 
     - been a bad week.  Tyler Durden   Oct-26-07 10:25 PM   #170 
        - Seems like it's been a stressful week for a lot of people here on DU--  paxmusa   Oct-27-07 01:23 AM   #177 
  - The Mouse that Roared!  Mme. Defarge   Oct-26-07 06:29 PM   #159 
     - Yes! I forgot about "The Mouse"!  paxmusa   Oct-26-07 06:56 PM   #164 
  - Ecotopia, Ecotopia Uber Alles!  Oregonian   Oct-26-07 12:58 PM   #39 
  - Why stop at 9?  NoMoreMyths   Oct-26-07 01:06 PM   #44 
  - How do you think the nascent North American Union  CJCRANE   Oct-26-07 01:07 PM   #45 
  - The best laid plans of mice and men  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:09 PM   #47 
  - No  NeedleCast   Oct-26-07 01:08 PM   #46 
  - Expecting Americans to get involved in civil war now is delusional. Most don't even vote  Bucky   Oct-26-07 01:12 PM   #48 
  - Three to five economies  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:17 PM   #53 
  - But who is pissed off at who? For every post here trying to denegrate  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 02:26 PM   #98 
  - While these are valid principles, the specifics in the US don't match up to them  Bucky   Oct-26-07 02:53 PM   #102 
     - I'll point out neither could people in 1850  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 04:19 PM   #132 
     - With enough time  midlife_mo_Jo   Oct-27-07 08:17 AM   #181 
  - The majority never participates in border conflicts  melody   Oct-26-07 01:20 PM   #58 
     - Correct and thank you for getting it  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:26 PM   #60 
     - What is a "cold civil war"? And if it's "by design", who designed it?  Bucky   Oct-26-07 03:00 PM   #107 
        - Cold civil wars are the  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 03:54 PM   #114 
        - Perhaps you misunderstood what I meant by "Can you suggest any likely scenarios?"  Bucky   Oct-26-07 04:05 PM   #125 
           - Yes, here are some signs of this  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 04:13 PM   #128 
        - I live in what used to be a red town -- the divide is real  melody   Oct-26-07 03:57 PM   #118 
        - Who designed it?  realpolitik   Oct-26-07 04:10 PM   #126 
           - Nope, much older than that -- imho, this goes back easily fifty years  melody   Oct-27-07 02:58 AM   #179 
  - Nothing new--The regions have been different from the beginning  SujiwanKenobee   Oct-26-07 01:18 PM   #55 
  - Garreau refers to NOLA as an "aberration"  KamaAina   Oct-26-07 01:18 PM   #56 
  - California will break away in the relative near future  melody   Oct-26-07 01:27 PM   #63 
  - Don't know bout the conservative part  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:29 PM   #65 
  - The supposed "conservatives" are vastly outnumbered  melody   Oct-26-07 01:38 PM   #74 
  - Would work for me,  Q3JR4   Oct-26-07 01:37 PM   #73 
  - That would last right about until Colorado turned off the water.  tjwash   Oct-26-07 01:39 PM   #76 
  - And that is why Colorado is included in many of the maps  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:41 PM   #78 
  - Colorado needs our money more than we need their water  melody   Oct-26-07 01:49 PM   #85 
  - Can Alaska join you?  Blue_In_AK   Oct-26-07 02:08 PM   #92 
  - I'm with you on that!  martymar64   Oct-26-07 06:19 PM   #158 
     - I'm a great believer in Cascadia. I think we could do great good as a sovereign nation n/t  melody   Oct-27-07 01:25 PM   #188 
  - If there's a secession, I want to go where there's no freakin' fundies, no anti-global warming  in_cog_ni_to   Oct-26-07 01:29 PM   #64 
  - I always find this to be the "liberal" equivalent of right wing rapture wishful thinking...  mitchum   Oct-26-07 01:34 PM   #69 
  - I think it just makes some DU'ers feel smarter posting sentiments like this. Meanwhile,  cryingshame   Oct-26-07 01:34 PM   #70 
  - The book I cited is based on sociological research  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:35 PM   #72 
  - The 'book' you quoted was Wikipedia.  renie408   Oct-26-07 02:58 PM   #106 
     - that was the FIRST reference that came up  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 03:55 PM   #115 
  - Calling people "rubes" and "idiots" instead of presenting counter arguments is smart?  melody   Oct-26-07 01:45 PM   #82 
  - Best post of the thread. Thank you. nt  piedmont   Oct-26-07 04:14 PM   #129 
  - I think we're at a point where every 21 year old should be....  Zookeeper   Oct-26-07 01:44 PM   #81 
  - And that my friend is another marker of nations that  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 01:46 PM   #84 
  - I like you as a friend, please don't be mad. n/t  hiphopnation23   Oct-26-07 02:36 PM   #100 
  - Breaking the country up sounds better than the North American Union. nt  TheGoldenRule   Oct-26-07 02:36 PM   #101 
  - Perhaps, but if you look at the history of humans on the earth, grouping have  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 02:57 PM   #105 
     - The North American Union is evil. It will kill the Constitution & our way of life. NO thanks. nt  TheGoldenRule   Oct-26-07 03:45 PM   #110 
     - So will the break up of the country  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 03:57 PM   #117 
     - Many states have stronger constitutions than the Federal one  Oak2004   Oct-27-07 03:34 PM   #200 
     - I'm not arguing in favor of the NAU. I'm only pointing out that human groupings tend to  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 04:23 PM   #134 
     - Both trends go simultaneoously in different geographic locations  martymar64   Oct-26-07 06:32 PM   #160 
        - i'm not saying that decentraization never occurs. I'm saying that the overall  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 07:33 PM   #166 
           - Technology has facilitated centralization but . . .  martymar64   Oct-26-07 08:05 PM   #168 
              - Very true as to the environmental limits on centralization, as well as the technological  John Q. Citizen   Oct-26-07 08:22 PM   #169 
                 - At this point I am thinking of the Diamond's book  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-27-07 12:14 AM   #173 
                    - There's some classic examples, the Mayan in the Yucatan, the Cliff Dwellers  John Q. Citizen   Oct-27-07 10:51 AM   #186 
  - Is this an article from The Onion? n/t  renie408   Oct-26-07 02:54 PM   #103 
  - No, it is actually a very serious question  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 03:58 PM   #119 
     - Since when? 1981? Does anybody REALLY think that the US is going to  renie408   Oct-26-07 04:01 PM   #121 
        - That was the FIRST of a series of books that  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 04:23 PM   #135 
           - I will simply answer your question. No, I don't think the US is on the verge  renie408   Oct-26-07 05:32 PM   #147 
              - First used the book as an example of what is out there  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 06:36 PM   #162 
  - To me, the question is more like "is it inevitable", regardless of if it should or not.  Zhade   Oct-26-07 02:55 PM   #104 
  - I see secession a bit differently  End Of The Road   Oct-26-07 03:15 PM   #108 
  - No way is West Virginia part of Dixie.  tabasco   Oct-26-07 03:20 PM   #109 
  - Shit. I didn't even check that. We aren't taking Alabama, either. n/t  renie408   Oct-26-07 03:54 PM   #113 
     - I live in WV.  tabasco   Oct-26-07 04:02 PM   #122 
        - ROFL!! I live in Dixie. We don't mind. n/t  renie408   Oct-26-07 04:03 PM   #123 
           - On my property is a breastwork,  tabasco   Oct-26-07 04:22 PM   #133 
  - NO!  Breeze54   Oct-26-07 03:55 PM   #116 
  - This book was written in 1981 when...  TreasonousBastard   Oct-26-07 04:03 PM   #124 
  - Hell no.  piedmont   Oct-26-07 04:11 PM   #127 
  - No n/t  tammywammy   Oct-26-07 04:18 PM   #131 
  - It will happen eventually  Marrah_G   Oct-26-07 04:28 PM   #136 
  - that break-up would never work  hfojvt   Oct-26-07 04:29 PM   #137 
  - That was an early study  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 04:33 PM   #139 
  - Looks like it's time to  CrispyQGirl   Oct-26-07 04:32 PM   #138 
  - My man, Bob Seger!!!  amandabeech   Oct-27-07 02:16 PM   #194 
  - All we need is another attack  yasmina27   Oct-26-07 04:36 PM   #140 
  - Them are temporary  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 04:52 PM   #141 
  - No--this isn't the 1860's and the national govt. can more than keep us in line  book_worm   Oct-26-07 04:55 PM   #142 
  - After having looked at that map....  Zookeeper   Oct-26-07 05:27 PM   #145 
  - He did  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 05:31 PM   #146 
     - Well. He's wrong.  Zookeeper   Oct-26-07 05:35 PM   #149 
        - You know what concerns me is that he looked at trends back then  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 05:39 PM   #151 
  - you are an immigrant to the United States...  NorthernSpy   Oct-26-07 05:35 PM   #148 
  - and a HISTORIAN by training  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 05:36 PM   #150 
     - it's a reasonable question...  NorthernSpy   Oct-27-07 02:48 PM   #196 
     - How long have you lived here and where did you receive your training?  amandabeech   Oct-27-07 03:00 PM   #197 
  - We need a new constitution,  agincourt   Oct-26-07 05:46 PM   #152 
  - Correct, my brother and I have been talking about it  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 05:55 PM   #154 
     - Isn't that what amendments are for?  walldude   Oct-26-07 10:40 PM   #171 
        - yes the ammendments are suposed to be for  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-27-07 12:16 AM   #174 
  - It may be the only way to save the world. I for one am sick of American hegemony.  MasonJar   Oct-26-07 06:02 PM   #156 
  - You fail to consider  midlife_mo_Jo   Oct-26-07 06:07 PM   #157 
  - I pointed some of the trends  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-26-07 06:32 PM   #161 
  - Oh, fer gosh sakes, NO!!! The only "very hot" war happening is among the,...  sicksicksick_N_tired   Oct-26-07 07:06 PM   #165 
  - Umm - here in the supposed "Bible Belt"  sleebarker   Oct-26-07 11:03 PM   #172 
  - I am talking about the ideological divide actually  nadinbrzezinski   Oct-27-07 12:17 AM   #175 
  - Quick answer: No.  Truthiness Inspector   Oct-27-07 12:34 AM   #176 
  - This would never happen  Politicub   Oct-27-07 08:26 AM   #183 
  - more secular apocalyptism from a secular apocalyptist  cali   Oct-27-07 08:39 AM   #184 
  - No, she has a series of books to back her up.  renie408   Oct-27-07 01:29 PM   #190 
     - Do you write things that are deliberately rude?  Tesha   Oct-27-07 05:48 PM   #202 
  - No, I don't think it will break up this way  mvd   Oct-27-07 02:41 PM   #195 
  - On nations and states...  warren pease   Oct-27-07 04:58 PM   #201 
  - In order to trigger a Soviet style collapse, three things need to happen  Aya Reiko   Oct-27-07 06:11 PM   #203 

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