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Reply #177: Won't know until the trial whether the jury/judge believes that [View All]

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YankmeCrankme Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-17-07 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #143
177. Won't know until the trial whether the jury/judge believes that
they attempted to steal the bay of hay at gunpoint. One side seems to say no, the other yes. But, back to your assertion that shooting at fleeing felons is ok, they weren't fleeing felons so no reason to shoot at them for that and the fact that he scared them off prevented them from absconding with his property so no reason to shoot then, either.

Yes, they were attempting to make off with a bale of hay they didn't own, for whatever reason, and I'm sure if caught (maybe getting their license number would have helped instead of trying to hit the truck with a bullet) they would have gotten a more appropriate punishment then death. And if they didn't get caught, I would like to think they would have learned a valuable lesson most of us who end of doing stupid things when that age learn on our path to maturity.
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  -Teenager Shot And Killed After Allegedly Stealing Bale Of Hay The Straight Story  Oct-16-07 10:11 AM   #0 
  - Let me start this one  atreides1   Oct-16-07 10:16 AM   #1 
  - shoot first, think later...  hlthe2b   Oct-16-07 10:18 AM   #3 
  - Yep  TX-RAT   Oct-16-07 10:23 AM   #7 
  - I guess you missed the part were they say the guns were unloaded....  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 10:31 AM   #18 
  - Nope, i seen it  TX-RAT   Oct-16-07 10:42 AM   #23 
  - And of course because he says so makes it so.  tabasco   Oct-16-07 10:43 AM   #25 
  - At this point his story has just as much credibility as the other.  TX-RAT   Oct-16-07 10:52 AM   #26 
  - Lies of a criminal?  mvccd1000   Oct-16-07 11:06 AM   #32 
     - Uh, a kid swiping a hay bale to use in a Halloween scene set up  NCevilDUer   Oct-16-07 11:20 AM   #43 
     - I was referring to the post above me, where it was said that...  mvccd1000   Oct-16-07 11:35 AM   #47 
     - well, they were trying to get into a gun range  fishwax   Oct-16-07 02:50 PM   #97 
     - STEALING IS A CRIME  thebighart   Oct-16-07 11:48 AM   #49 
        - and we DON'T believe in the DEATH PENALTY for property theft....  Scout   Oct-16-07 12:52 PM   #52 
        - Are you okay with killing the kid?  Swede   Oct-16-07 12:54 PM   #53 
        - This is one sick post  malaise   Oct-16-07 01:29 PM   #56 
        - Murder is appropriate punishment for stealing a bale of hay?  wicket   Oct-16-07 01:34 PM   #57 
        - I never said the kid should have been shot or even shot at.  thebighart   Oct-16-07 01:43 PM   #61 
        - Well, while stealing is a crime, he was never convicted of stealing :)  The Straight Story   Oct-16-07 01:51 PM   #69 
        - my original comment was in response to comment #43:  thebighart   Oct-16-07 01:55 PM   #71 
        - I have myself  thebighart   Oct-16-07 02:02 PM   #74 
           - Yes, they were wrong for shooting at you  gollygee   Oct-16-07 02:04 PM   #75 
              - well, one thing my mom did do for me  thebighart   Oct-16-07 02:25 PM   #83 
                 - If they shoot at you and hit you, that is not an accident  gollygee   Oct-16-07 02:29 PM   #85 
                 - I guess I just see it differently.  thebighart   Oct-16-07 02:36 PM   #86 
                 - I would have waited an hour for the police  gollygee   Oct-16-07 02:41 PM   #89 
                 - So you advocate for vigilante justice and irresponsible use of firearms...  Solon   Oct-16-07 02:42 PM   #90 
                    - no I advocate that my actions were wrong  thebighart   Oct-16-07 02:45 PM   #92 
                    - Just because one person, or group of people, act irresponsibly, doesn't give yet another person or..  Solon   Oct-16-07 02:48 PM   #94 
                    - If you belive that sort of thing deserves deadly force,  Bassic   Oct-17-07 10:57 AM   #181 
                    - and by the way  thebighart   Oct-16-07 02:51 PM   #99 
                       - And now I know your malfunction, property, in your world, is worth more than human beings.  Solon   Oct-16-07 02:55 PM   #101 
                          - no, I would neve shot at someone unless  thebighart   Oct-16-07 03:01 PM   #103 
                             - And that is just as wrong...  Solon   Oct-16-07 03:07 PM   #105 
                             - You're all over the place buddy  wicket   Oct-16-07 04:31 PM   #120 
                                - maybe so,  thebighart   Oct-16-07 04:52 PM   #122 
                                - I don't either, but MURDER is a ton worse than what the young men may/may not have done  wicket   Oct-16-07 08:48 PM   #138 
                                - How do you define murder?  thebighart   Oct-17-07 07:11 AM   #146 
                                - Why do you keep trying to change the subject from the topic at hand?  wicket   Oct-17-07 08:25 AM   #147 
                                - I believe I do understand.  thebighart   Oct-17-07 08:55 AM   #148 
                                - Sounds an awful like blaming the victim  wicket   Oct-17-07 08:56 AM   #149 
                                - so are you saying the victim has no responsibility for the choice  thebighart   Oct-17-07 08:58 AM   #151 
                                - He was a kid, he did something stupid, but did not deserved to be killed over a bail of hay  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:00 AM   #152 
                                - I have been very clear on my view of the trigger-happy guy  thebighart   Oct-17-07 09:11 AM   #155 
                                - You made some knee jerk reactions in attempting to blame the victims  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:15 AM   #157 
                                - I don't think that I had a knee-jerk reaciton  thebighart   Oct-17-07 09:23 AM   #160 
                                - Seems both of you have forgot one little detail.  TX-RAT   Oct-17-07 09:02 AM   #153 
                                - That's what he, who has been charged with murder, says  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:06 AM   #154 
                                - The boy who survived the attack begs to differ.  TX-RAT   Oct-17-07 09:25 AM   #161 
                                - Why do you take the word of someone charged with murder?  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:26 AM   #162 
                                - Why do you take the word of someone charged with murder?  TX-RAT   Oct-17-07 09:49 AM   #167 
                                - Doesn't seem like he's lying about what he did. He admits it, in fact.  YankmeCrankme   Oct-17-07 10:21 AM   #172 
                                - I'm not to sure about that.  TX-RAT   Oct-17-07 10:36 AM   #174 
                                - Post 54 has video of truck and gun, which was scoped. NT  YankmeCrankme   Oct-17-07 10:52 AM   #180 
                                - Thank you, didn't see the video in that link.  TX-RAT   Oct-17-07 11:06 AM   #184 
                                - The Columbus Disppatch carried a story yesterday  Hangingon   Oct-17-07 08:24 PM   #195 
                                - that is an excellent point.  thebighart   Oct-17-07 09:14 AM   #156 
                                - The fatal shot came when they were 1/4 mile down the road in their truck with their backs to him  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:17 AM   #158 
                                - a quarter of a mile is not that far.  thebighart   Oct-17-07 09:27 AM   #163 
                                - It's far enough for them to not have been a threat to him  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:29 AM   #164 
                                - The fatal shot came when they were 1/4 mile down the road  TX-RAT   Oct-17-07 09:44 AM   #166 
                                - No worries  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:49 AM   #168 
                                - That's the way it is around here.  TX-RAT   Oct-17-07 09:55 AM   #169 
                                - Good to hear Vermont & Texas are alike like that  wicket   Oct-17-07 10:43 AM   #179 
                                - Whether or not their actions were wrong is irrelevant.  Bassic   Oct-17-07 11:02 AM   #182 
                                - so if someone walks out in front your car and you hit and kill them  thebighart   Oct-17-07 11:38 AM   #189 
                                - Apples and oranges buddy.  Bassic   Oct-17-07 12:25 PM   #190 
                 - Being a Shooting Victim Doesn't Absolve Anyone of Personal Responsibility for Thieving  Crisco   Oct-16-07 03:03 PM   #104 
                    - He is responsible for stealing hay, but not for being shot  gollygee   Oct-16-07 03:08 PM   #106 
                    - The caretaker had a choice, to shoot or not to shoot, he chose wrong.  Solon   Oct-16-07 03:16 PM   #109 
                 - If you accept responsibility for your own actions, you can't be a good DUer.  karlrschneider   Oct-16-07 02:40 PM   #88 
                 - Yes, that is EXACTLY it...  Solon   Oct-16-07 02:46 PM   #93 
                 - Apparently you do not know the definition of murder.  karlrschneider   Oct-16-07 06:07 PM   #127 
                    - It wasn't First Degree Murder, but Second Degree, sounds like it to me...  Solon   Oct-16-07 06:32 PM   #133 
                       - And you know the shooter's intentions how?  Oeditpus Rex   Oct-17-07 04:07 AM   #144 
                          - Um, 'cause he shot at them?  High Plains   Oct-17-07 10:16 AM   #170 
                 - The kids are responsible for their actions, and the guy who shot the kid is responsible for his  gollygee   Oct-16-07 02:48 PM   #95 
                    - I agree completely  thebighart   Oct-16-07 02:55 PM   #100 
                    - I don't believe he was trying to hurt let alone kill anyone.  karlrschneider   Oct-16-07 06:08 PM   #128 
                       - Is that why he aimed square in the kids back? With a scope?  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 06:16 PM   #129 
                       - What the fuck was he doing shooting at them then?  Solon   Oct-16-07 06:28 PM   #131 
                 - Sorry, what you and your friends did shouldn't warrant death.  YankmeCrankme   Oct-16-07 02:49 PM   #96 
                    - repukes think like that  Skittles   Oct-17-07 03:39 AM   #142 
                       - Yup  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:31 AM   #165 
        - So is shooting people.  Bornaginhooligan   Oct-16-07 05:54 PM   #125 
     - Last time I checked, murder/manslaughter is a crime.  tabasco   Oct-16-07 02:44 PM   #91 
     - To some people, life isn't worth much. n/t  Solon   Oct-16-07 02:56 PM   #102 
     - Amazing how people rush to the defense of a thief, too....  mvccd1000   Oct-17-07 02:43 AM   #141 
        - Christ Almighty. How dense are you?  tabasco   Oct-17-07 09:58 PM   #196 
           - Apparently not as dense as some....  mvccd1000   Oct-18-07 10:16 AM   #197 
     - Tennesee vs. Garner n/t  KeineAhnung   Oct-17-07 02:20 PM   #192 
  - Shooting the kid gor him a murder charge. Real bright.  rug   Oct-16-07 08:52 PM   #139 
  - This IS what passes for thinking ...  damntexdem   Oct-16-07 12:37 PM   #50 
  - Damn straight, lord only knows what that boy would have done to that hay  The Straight Story   Oct-16-07 10:18 AM   #4 
  - Musta been one slow bullet...  karlrschneider   Oct-16-07 10:17 AM   #2 
  - The shooter has been charged with murder & attempted murder  wicket   Oct-16-07 10:20 AM   #5 
  - Theft of property is not a defense to homicide.  Deep13   Oct-16-07 10:25 AM   #10 
     - Right on  wicket   Oct-16-07 10:28 AM   #17 
     - Not just my opinion. It's law in Ohio.  Deep13   Oct-16-07 10:33 AM   #19 
        - What is the law regarding fleeing felons?  krispos42   Oct-16-07 01:54 PM   #70 
           - You're assuming they are felons. Why?  YankmeCrankme   Oct-16-07 03:12 PM   #107 
           - Robbery is a felony.  Deep13   Oct-16-07 03:41 PM   #113 
           - Ah, there wasn't a trial or conviction and, anyway, I don't believe  YankmeCrankme   Oct-17-07 10:25 AM   #173 
              - Robbery (not merely theft) is always a felony.  Deep13   Oct-17-07 10:37 AM   #175 
           - Robbing at gunpoint  krispos42   Oct-17-07 03:55 AM   #143 
              - Won't know until the trial whether the jury/judge believes that  YankmeCrankme   Oct-17-07 10:41 AM   #177 
                 - It is not my "assertion" that shooting felons is okay  krispos42   Oct-17-07 11:04 AM   #183 
                    - Sorry for misinterpeting your earlier post :) NT  YankmeCrankme   Oct-17-07 11:17 AM   #185 
                       - No problem!  krispos42   Oct-17-07 11:36 AM   #187 
           - Deadly force may only be used to prevent an imminent, ...  Deep13   Oct-16-07 03:37 PM   #112 
     - At least not in Ohio  slackmaster   Oct-16-07 02:24 PM   #82 
        - I'm guessing that the law there assumes...  Deep13   Oct-16-07 03:42 PM   #114 
           - It's based on a presumption that a nocturnal intruder is a cattle rustler or horse thief  slackmaster   Oct-16-07 04:06 PM   #117 
  - How many arms did these kids have?  Chulanowa   Oct-16-07 10:23 AM   #6 
  - Darn right, what's a little stealing among friends?  karlrschneider   Oct-16-07 10:26 AM   #11 
  - And the "hard of reading" crowd comes out to play  Chulanowa   Oct-16-07 10:42 AM   #24 
     - The bottom line is pretty fucking simple: If they hadn't been stealing, they  karlrschneider   Oct-16-07 11:07 AM   #33 
     - And, of course, we only have his word for that too... There was no mention  1monster   Oct-16-07 11:16 AM   #38 
     - Since when is stealing a capital offense? nt  YankmeCrankme   Oct-16-07 01:45 PM   #64 
     - Damn Right!  DrunkenMaster   Oct-16-07 01:45 PM   #65 
        - I think KarlSchneider is just itching to use his popgun on someone.  Swede   Oct-16-07 01:49 PM   #67 
     - If they had firearms in their possession, it is a felony. n/t  Deep13   Oct-16-07 03:45 PM   #115 
        - IF they had. That's for a judge/jury to decide...not the caretaker. NT  YankmeCrankme   Oct-17-07 10:42 AM   #178 
           - You misunderstand the point.  Deep13   Oct-17-07 11:36 AM   #188 
              - Except in this case they were fleeing in a truck a quarter of a mile away  YankmeCrankme   Oct-17-07 05:31 PM   #193 
                 - Then he's guilty of murder.  Deep13   Oct-17-07 07:26 PM   #194 
                    - Fair enough  YankmeCrankme   Oct-18-07 11:33 AM   #198 
  - Ohio follows the retreat rule.  Deep13   Oct-16-07 10:28 AM   #16 
  - They had 4  Squatch   Oct-16-07 11:25 AM   #46 
     - Where did you get that info? It wasn't in the article which said only that  1monster   Oct-16-07 02:38 PM   #87 
        - I just had to rely on my rudimentary understanding of math and biology.  Squatch   Oct-16-07 06:31 PM   #132 
        - He's being cute. Two "arms" as in legs and arms. n/t  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 06:49 PM   #136 
           - Ahh... Okay. got it. maybe a little slow, but I'll blame that on the red tide and a cold. nt  1monster   Oct-16-07 09:05 PM   #140 
  - How much is one bale of hay worth, anyway? nt  Momgonepostal   Oct-16-07 10:23 AM   #8 
  - Apparently the life of one teenage boy.  Rabrrrrrr   Oct-16-07 10:27 AM   #12 
  - Four dollars - according to the kids mother.  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 10:27 AM   #13 
  - Around here, its about $2.50.  cornermouse   Oct-16-07 10:34 AM   #21 
  - Well, with the late frost & drought hay is worth a fortune just south of Ohio  tuckessee   Oct-16-07 10:53 AM   #27 
  - yup, gonna' be a tough winter her in VA, too  soothsayer   Oct-16-07 12:44 PM   #51 
  - Decent hay in Calif. is up to $15 a bale  doodadem   Oct-16-07 11:09 AM   #34 
     - Round bales in the Southeast- 65 bucks!!!!!!!!!  Wcross   Oct-16-07 11:20 AM   #44 
     - OT, but good luck with your case  renate   Oct-16-07 02:18 PM   #78 
  - Isn't this a gun masturbator's wet dream? To kill someone for stealing?...  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 10:25 AM   #9 
  - Um, no  krispos42   Oct-16-07 01:45 PM   #63 
     - LOL. Thanks for not reading the thread before you run your mouth.  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 02:13 PM   # 
     - I was just following your example  krispos42   Oct-16-07 02:22 PM   #80 
        - He can't talk. He has his hands full,  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 03:13 PM   #108 
     - Are You A Gun Masturbator?  ProfessorGAC   Oct-16-07 02:24 PM   #81 
  - Doh!  devilgrrl   Oct-16-07 10:27 AM   #14 
  - Did you read the whole story?????? n/t  Wcross   Oct-16-07 10:35 AM   #22 
     - Okay...  devilgrrl   Oct-16-07 11:01 AM   #31 
        - True. But I just wanted to point out there are conflicting stories.  Wcross   Oct-16-07 11:17 AM   #39 
  - Did it not occur to Whisman to simply shoot...  slor   Oct-16-07 10:27 AM   #15 
  - Seems like conflicting stories.  Wcross   Oct-16-07 10:34 AM   #20 
  - Serious contradiction in Whisman's story:  1monster   Oct-16-07 10:54 AM   #28 
  - As I said, I doubt his story but I also find this part odd.....  Wcross   Oct-16-07 10:57 AM   #29 
  - His story has the smell of someone who knows he f-cked up - big time.  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 11:09 AM   #35 
     - Yes, it does smell. n/t  Wcross   Oct-16-07 11:12 AM   #36 
  - The kid that got shot may have already been sitting.  TX-RAT   Oct-16-07 10:59 AM   #30 
  - Somebody call Arlen Specter STAT!  WilliamPitt   Oct-16-07 11:18 AM   #40 
  - You are forgetting there were two of them  bamalib   Oct-16-07 01:57 PM   #72 
  - Pretty hard to claim the kid was a mortal threat if he was driving away. nt  Deep13   Oct-16-07 11:12 AM   #37 
     - Where did i say he shot while they were driving away?  TX-RAT   Oct-16-07 11:20 AM   #41 
     - Not necessarily.  tuckessee   Oct-16-07 11:20 AM   #42 
     - Were both kids in the cab of the truck?  krispos42   Oct-16-07 01:58 PM   #73 
  - Shooting at a theif driving away -- bad; shooting at a thief pointing a gun at you -- justifiable  aikoaiko   Oct-16-07 11:21 AM   #45 
  - Agree 100%.  mvccd1000   Oct-16-07 11:42 AM   #48 
  - Here's an update.  Swede   Oct-16-07 01:06 PM   #54 
  - Sounds like murder to me...  Solon   Oct-16-07 01:11 PM   #55 
  - He probably thought he was just going to put a hole in the bed of their truck and scare them  aikoaiko   Oct-16-07 01:37 PM   #58 
     - You would think that someone who is familiar with guns would know that there are no...  Solon   Oct-16-07 01:39 PM   #59 
     - Totally agree with you.  aikoaiko   Oct-16-07 01:40 PM   #60 
     - You DO NOT "Shoot to Kill"  qdemn7   Oct-17-07 04:26 AM   #145 
     - If That ...  Crisco   Oct-16-07 03:28 PM   #110 
        - On the contrary, unless he was firing with a handgun, or a .22 rifle...  Solon   Oct-16-07 03:35 PM   #111 
        - Well, most center-fire rifle cartridges could go through both easily.  aikoaiko   Oct-16-07 04:01 PM   #116 
        - If you watch the video in the OP you will see the bullet struck....  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 05:56 PM   #126 
           - there was no mention of a scope. Why are you lying about this?  karlrschneider   Oct-16-07 06:21 PM   #130 
              - Hey, just because you are ignorant of the facts, that doesn't make other people liars.  Kingshakabobo   Oct-16-07 06:46 PM   #135 
                 - Great info, thanks for posting that  wicket   Oct-17-07 09:19 AM   #159 
                    - No problem. Do you hear those crickets chirping from that other poster? n/t  Kingshakabobo   Oct-17-07 11:22 AM   #186 
                       - I'm hearing A LOT of crickets on this thread  wicket   Oct-17-07 01:25 PM   #191 
  - The first shot was fine. The second was murder.  Xithras   Oct-16-07 01:44 PM   #62 
  - Nothing wrong with that?  Solon   Oct-16-07 01:51 PM   #68 
  - True enough  KurtNYC   Oct-16-07 02:13 PM   #76 
  - I just get pissed of at people that carry no respect for the lethality of firearms and...  Solon   Oct-16-07 02:19 PM   #79 
  - Read my post again, I live in the boonies.  Xithras   Oct-16-07 04:12 PM   #118 
     - Living in the boonies isn't a defense, using a shotgun might, as long as you don't...  Solon   Oct-16-07 05:46 PM   #123 
  - In addition to that, you commit a felony every time you use the gun as you described...  Solon   Oct-16-07 02:15 PM   #77 
     - Only illegal in urban areas. I don't live in an urban (or even suburban) area.  Xithras   Oct-16-07 04:22 PM   #119 
        - As far as I can tell, there is no exceptions for rural areas...  Solon   Oct-16-07 05:54 PM   #124 
           - Actually, there IS no specific law against it.  Xithras   Oct-16-07 06:41 PM   #134 
              - I stand corrected then(after an exhaustive search on Google)...  Solon   Oct-16-07 07:17 PM   #137 
  - Well, if that's true, it's some form of homicide  krispos42   Oct-16-07 01:46 PM   #66 
  - Sounds like an inappropriate use of deadly force  slackmaster   Oct-16-07 02:26 PM   #84 
  - Unless the kid threatened the shooter  TX-RAT   Oct-16-07 04:35 PM   #121 
  - How stupid must someone be to use deadly force over a lousy  Vinca   Oct-16-07 02:51 PM   #98 
  - Bizzaro world.  lonestarnot   Oct-17-07 08:57 AM   #150 
  - If the hay was so dear to the owner, why didn't he write down...  Zookeeper   Oct-17-07 10:20 AM   #171 
  - Sometime Bale Napping can have deadly consequences...poor kid...all he had to do was ask....  opihimoimoi   Oct-17-07 10:41 AM   #176 

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