Warren DeMontague
(1000+ posts)
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Tue Oct-02-07 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 21. "If they wish to organize prayer in school then that is their prerogative" |
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Edited on Tue Oct-02-07 12:07 AM by impeachdubya
No, it's not. It's extremely upsetting how frequently I come across people who are deluded- seriously deluded on this. It does NOT MATTER if EVERY SINGLE PERSON in a town WANTS PRAYERS TO JESUS in their public school. (or says they do, at least) It is NOT CONSTITUTIONAL. It's not a matter of "everyone in the town loves Jesus, so why can't we turn the public school into a religious indoctrination center". It doesn't fucking work that way. Sorry.
Organized, School-Led prayer is unconstitutional. Kids CAN pray in schools, but the school can't endorse it. Obviously, you don't understand why.
Here's one question the pro-prayer in schools crowd never seems to want to answer: Is there a church shortage in this country I haven't heard of, where people need religious affirmation endorsed by their public school?
Teach tolerance towards people of all faiths, first by expressly understanding that the proper place for official religious expression is NOT in a public school.
What if the sign said "In Allah We Trust"? "In Buddha We Trust"? "In Krishna We Trust"? "In Zeus We Trust"? Would you have a problem with it then? How about "In Satan We Trust"?
Bear in mind, that would be the ONLY sign. There wouldn't be a sign for everyone's deity or deities, or a sign for those of us who don't have one at all.
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 Posting “In God We Trust” in classrooms proposed (Kern County CA) |
The Straight Story |
Oct-01-07 06:48 PM |
#0 |
 
How many times does this have to be settled? |
VLC |
Oct-01-07 06:49 PM |
#1 |
 
An infinite number of times. |
Kutjara |
Oct-01-07 06:58 PM |
#4 |
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How many times can a County Attorney make some money? |
ShaneGR |
Oct-04-07 02:43 AM |
#102 |
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I'm not a lawyer but . . . |
MrModerate |
Oct-01-07 06:54 PM |
#2 |
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Actually, thats not entirely accurate. |
CT_Progressive |
Oct-01-07 07:25 PM |
#9 |
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So, to stay within the FOIA, they couldn't announce ahead of time . . . |
MrModerate |
Oct-03-07 04:58 PM |
#96 |
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Just what the hell does "In God We Trust" mean? |
baldguy |
Oct-01-07 06:57 PM |
#3 |
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I am ok with the 10 C's for a really simple reason (outside of religion) |
The Straight Story |
Oct-01-07 07:01 PM |
#5 |
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The idea that the 10 Commandments are some kind of groundbreaking basis of law is a lie. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-01-07 08:52 PM |
#15 |
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you're ok with the 10 commandments going where? if you mean a court house |
chimpsrsmarter |
Oct-01-07 09:03 PM |
#19 |
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First off, there's no extra-biblical evidence of the Exodus. Sorry. |
Zhade |
Oct-02-07 12:16 AM |
#23 |
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I sort of agree the 10 commandments aren't too outrageous, as separation of church and state goes, |
quantessd |
Oct-02-07 01:48 AM |
#64 |
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The 10 commandments are religious, period |
BuffyTheFundieSlayer |
Oct-02-07 07:55 AM |
#78 |
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Don't you realize? |
BuffyTheFundieSlayer |
Oct-01-07 07:05 PM |
#7 |
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Yes, and God would answer the prayers of Homosexshuls, |
quantessd |
Oct-02-07 01:00 AM |
#50 |
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If God loved homosexshuls so much |
BuffyTheFundieSlayer |
Oct-02-07 07:36 AM |
#76 |
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I propose the death penalty for anyone who tries to undo the First Amendment |
FiveGoodMen |
Oct-01-07 07:03 PM |
#6 |
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I wonder if these "educators" know that the motto of the United States in NOT |
1monster |
Oct-01-07 07:21 PM |
#8 |
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What harm does posting "In God We Trust" do? |
mikelewis |
Oct-01-07 07:28 PM |
#10 |
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You're right, it should not be on the dollar either. |
VLC |
Oct-01-07 08:45 PM |
#12 |
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Mine would say: "We want you to Abstain Until Marriage. Even if you get married at 35. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-01-07 08:59 PM |
#18 |
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No, it shouldn't. |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 12:43 AM |
#42 |
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It makes sense on the money. Unfortunately... |
ManiacJoe |
Oct-02-07 08:51 PM |
#94 |
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Other than the first amendment |
Goblinmonger |
Oct-01-07 08:54 PM |
#16 |
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What is the purpose of posting it in a public school? |
impeachdubya |
Oct-01-07 08:56 PM |
#17 |
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What danger does it pose? Is there some secret and insidious plot that I'm not aware of? |
mikelewis |
Oct-01-07 11:49 PM |
#20 |
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"If they wish to organize prayer in school then that is their prerogative" |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 12:00 AM |
#21 |
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I am not afraid of a sign that says any of those things... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:22 AM |
#26 |
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You should start your own school |
DefenseLawyer |
Oct-02-07 12:28 AM |
#30 |
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Blah, Blah, Blah. You still don't get it. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 12:31 AM |
#32 |
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Maybe that is their reason for erecting the sign but it does not mean they don't have the... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:50 AM |
#47 |
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We'll see, won't we. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 02:49 AM |
#70 |
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Wow, it must be nice not to need any proof of claim to back up anything you've said.... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 08:47 AM |
#81 |
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Right. Any time a minority stands up against obvious bigotry and small-minded discrimination they |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 02:37 PM |
#87 |
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Are you high or did you just eat too many paint chips as a child? |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 08:38 PM |
#92 |
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You're also operating under the delusion that if a town "wants" prayer in their public school |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 09:35 PM |
#95 |
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Still... not one law or article supporting your position... |
mikelewis |
Oct-03-07 08:44 PM |
#97 |
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I think the onus is on you to prove that somehow "In God We Trust" is different than all the other |
impeachdubya |
Oct-03-07 09:58 PM |
#98 |
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As long as you see my point... |
mikelewis |
Oct-04-07 12:52 AM |
#99 |
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Now you're just talking gibberish. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-04-07 01:16 AM |
#100 |
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Actually, that argument is not relevent to the topic however... |
mikelewis |
Oct-04-07 02:37 AM |
#101 |
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The operative words, being, "mandatory or sponsored by in any part by the schools". |
impeachdubya |
Oct-04-07 03:15 AM |
#103 |
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You just make shit up as you go along, don't you? |
mikelewis |
Oct-04-07 08:54 AM |
#104 |
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You're really flailing, now. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-04-07 11:17 PM |
#105 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Oct-06-07 08:43 AM |
#107 |
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Mmmm Hmmm. Whatever you say. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-06-07 06:01 PM |
#108 |
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LOL, I must admit I enjoyed your post. |
quantessd |
Oct-02-07 03:16 AM |
#72 |
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Atheism's not a fucking ideology. I wish you people would get that through your skulls. |
Zhade |
Oct-02-07 12:21 AM |
#25 |
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Yes it is... It's a firm belief that there is no God... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:26 AM |
#29 |
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What? Say that to me, if you dare. |
quantessd |
Oct-02-07 04:23 AM |
#74 |
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Bullshit! |
mr blur |
Oct-02-07 07:53 AM |
#77 |
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Atheism is an ideology- and thus is protected in just the same |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 01:14 AM |
#59 |
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Endorsing any religion, or atheism, in school is not a good way to "start |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 01:02 AM |
#52 |
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Which religion is it endorsing? |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 01:04 AM |
#54 |
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Any that believes in God. |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 01:07 AM |
#56 |
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How is it "denouncing atheism"? It makes no mention of atheism... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 01:36 AM |
#61 |
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I'm not an atheist. I'm quite the Deist, in fact. Which |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 01:45 AM |
#63 |
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If there is no God... how can it be evident what the meaning is? |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 02:04 AM |
#65 |
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"To an atheist...this slogan is meaningless." |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 02:33 AM |
#66 |
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It is the National Motto... Like it or not... the school can post the National Motto without... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 02:39 AM |
#67 |
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Try this one. |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 02:46 AM |
#69 |
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Until it is ruled illegal... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 08:34 AM |
#79 |
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It says that there is a God |
gollygee |
Oct-02-07 09:02 AM |
#84 |
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You are more than welcome to try and have that sign erected... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 08:45 PM |
#93 |
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'If they wish to organize prayer in school then that is their prerogative' |
Bluebear |
Oct-02-07 02:54 AM |
#71 |
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"Fuck all athiests till they get AIDS and die. " would be a better banner as |
angstlessk |
Oct-02-07 09:44 AM |
#86 |
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It's a violation of the separation of church and state. THAT'S the harm. |
Zhade |
Oct-02-07 12:19 AM |
#24 |
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Which history book? Or better yet... which law book? |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:31 AM |
#31 |
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How would "In Satan We Trust" grab you? |
DefenseLawyer |
Oct-02-07 12:24 AM |
#28 |
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If that town votes to erect a sign that reads "In Satan We Trust" I would... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:32 AM |
#33 |
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The First Amendment does NOT Permit GOVERNMENT ENDORSEMENT OF RELIGION. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 12:35 AM |
#37 |
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Have you seen an American dollar? |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:39 AM |
#39 |
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No. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 12:44 AM |
#44 |
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I don't know if you are yanking chains |
DefenseLawyer |
Oct-02-07 12:43 AM |
#41 |
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Which religion is it endorsing? Other than this one? |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:51 AM |
#48 |
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I get your point. It's just not a very good point. |
DefenseLawyer |
Oct-02-07 01:05 AM |
#55 |
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Then this is perfect time for you to jump in and get those terrible words off our holy money... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 01:31 AM |
#60 |
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Your problem is that you view this as a free speech issue, when it really isn't that at all. |
Solon |
Oct-02-07 04:09 AM |
#73 |
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Don't bother. The important thing is the "right" of fundies to use government to tell atheists to |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 02:48 PM |
#89 |
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Very well put. |
liberalsoldier5 |
Oct-02-07 04:29 AM |
#75 |
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If it didn't do anything, people wouldn't work so hard to put those words up, would they? |
gollygee |
Oct-02-07 08:41 AM |
#80 |
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Would you feel the same if they posted "In Allah We Trust"? |
Ino |
Oct-02-07 08:58 AM |
#83 |
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Or "There Is No God" |
gollygee |
Oct-02-07 09:04 AM |
#85 |
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So waste of space |
Johonny |
Oct-01-07 07:30 PM |
#11 |
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If God wants to advertise in our schools |
VLC |
Oct-01-07 08:46 PM |
#13 |
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Well, it's on our money. That IS different from making the children recite it. nt |
indie_ana_500 |
Oct-01-07 08:52 PM |
#14 |
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It's wrong that's it's on our money, too. |
Zhade |
Oct-02-07 12:23 AM |
#27 |
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My guess is because.... |
quantessd |
Oct-02-07 12:48 AM |
#46 |
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FUCKING ILLEGAL. |
Zhade |
Oct-02-07 12:15 AM |
#22 |
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Dude! |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 12:33 AM |
#35 |
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Can you show the law that they are violating? |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:33 AM |
#36 |
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Let's see. Try Abington v. Schempp/Murray v. Curlett (1963) |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 12:39 AM |
#38 |
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That case hardly applies in this case and you know it... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 12:42 AM |
#40 |
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So, the bar for prayer being constitutional in schools is whether it's printed on money, first? |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 12:45 AM |
#45 |
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This is not school endorsed prayer... this is not forcing children to read a book... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 01:01 AM |
#51 |
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Is there a qualitative difference between a school-endorsed slogan |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 01:10 AM |
#58 |
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It's an American Government endorsed slogan... take it up with the Federal Government... |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 01:44 AM |
#62 |
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An exercise of free speech? |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 02:40 AM |
#68 |
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Yup. nt |
BullGooseLoony |
Oct-02-07 12:44 AM |
#43 |
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Only if they allow "In Allah We Trust" too. |
Swamp Rat |
Oct-02-07 12:32 AM |
#34 |
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DAMN RED STATES!!1!!1!1 n/t |
QC |
Oct-02-07 12:58 AM |
#49 |
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LOL |
mikelewis |
Oct-02-07 01:03 AM |
#53 |
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Chad Vegas is an outright fruitcake. Did I forget to warn you @ the local |
djmaddox1 |
Oct-02-07 01:08 AM |
#57 |
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Apparently, we've got some folks on DU very eager to stand up for him. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-02-07 02:47 PM |
#88 |
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Vegas has political aspirations - big aspirations - & is a fundy wet dream. |
djmaddox1 |
Oct-02-07 06:22 PM |
#91 |
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They day this goes up at my daughter's school is the day I start homeschooling |
gollygee |
Oct-02-07 08:49 AM |
#82 |
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Why don't they just put up a giant dollar bill? |
rucky |
Oct-02-07 02:51 PM |
#90 |
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and say the pledge to it |
Neo |
Oct-04-07 11:21 PM |
#106 |
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