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Reply #46: I'm "active" (-as in GOTV) base and I refuse to support her and her corporatism. [View All]

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-17-07 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
46. I'm "active" (-as in GOTV) base and I refuse to support her and her corporatism.
Edited on Mon Sep-17-07 10:03 AM by mod mom
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  -I think it is the 'base' of the Democratic party who is now supporting Hillary Clinton bigtree  Sep-17-07 08:51 AM   #0 
  - I can not support Hillary since she supports shipping my job to India  Larkspur   Sep-17-07 08:55 AM   #1 
  - Okay, vote for Giuliani or Romney. nt  MookieWilson   Sep-17-07 08:57 AM   #2 
  - Non sequitur. n/t  antigop   Sep-17-07 08:58 AM   #3 
  - I'll vote Socialist or Green Party  Larkspur   Sep-17-07 09:16 AM   #20 
  - then don't complain to us if the GOP win another term  Netbeavis   Sep-17-07 09:23 AM   #24 
  - Touche.  Beelzebud   Sep-17-07 09:48 AM   #39 
  - I don't know how to credit folks for sitting on their hands if we lose the general  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:57 AM   #42 
  - Hillary as nominee makes it a lose-lose situation for me  Larkspur   Sep-17-07 09:58 AM   #45 
  - I liked Bill Clinton, but the most common refrain that I heard  JDPriestly   Sep-17-07 10:49 AM   #63 
  - I don't think we can underestimate the effect of the Democrats  bigtree   Sep-17-07 10:54 AM   #66 
  - No, but we can certainly overestimate the effect. n/t  Truth2Tell   Sep-18-07 11:41 AM   #154 
  - Edwards voted like a Republican on many issues when he was a senator. n/t  Clark2008   Sep-17-07 11:08 AM   #71 
  - Shh! People don't like to be reminded of his real record!  TornadoTN   Sep-17-07 01:21 PM   #94 
  - Clark WAS a republican  mitchtv   Sep-18-07 02:26 PM   #161 
  - Vote Kucinich in the primaries for a positive change for the people!  superkia   Sep-17-07 02:03 PM   #104 
  - Right on, JDPriestly.  CANDO   Sep-17-07 04:56 PM   #130 
     - In all honesty  leftynyc   Sep-19-07 01:42 PM   #195 
  - I totally agree.....  liberalnurse   Sep-17-07 02:21 PM   #114 
  - She has not beaten the Repuke attacks all her life  Larkspur   Sep-17-07 04:48 PM   #128 
  - Hillary is a Republican.  vssmith   Sep-17-07 02:46 PM   #119 
  - You have never heard of coalition breaking?  tabasco   Sep-17-07 11:14 AM   #75 
  - Give people a viable choice, and you won't have to worry about that.  Beelzebud   Sep-17-07 11:28 AM   #79 
  - If we on the left are truly the tiny splinter  Hydra   Sep-17-07 02:07 PM   #106 
  - what should happen....and I put that in quotes  Netbeavis   Sep-17-07 12:14 PM   #83 
  - I live in CT. If Hillary can't win CT in the GE then she is doomed in the rest of the states  Larkspur   Sep-17-07 09:58 AM   #44 
  - You also can't claim that you're candidate is the best one, then blame  Marr   Sep-17-07 10:25 AM   #54 
  - Yes, you can  Echos Myron   Sep-19-07 10:44 AM   #186 
     - just as convoluted as it can be  bigtree   Sep-19-07 10:58 AM   #187 
        - Look  Echos Myron   Sep-19-07 03:44 PM   #196 
           - what good does that support do if it just sits by in the general election  bigtree   Sep-19-07 04:20 PM   #197 
              - I appreciate your civility  Echos Myron   Sep-19-07 09:31 PM   #198 
  - Oh now, no you won't.  liberalnurse   Sep-17-07 02:18 PM   #113 
  - You'd Really Do Something That Monumentally Stupid?  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Sep-18-07 11:51 AM   #156 
  - Greens:  mitchtv   Sep-18-07 02:24 PM   #160 
  - If Giuliani or Romney ran as Democrats would you vote for them?  Radical Activist   Sep-19-07 11:40 AM   #190 
  - The base I know is voting for Edwards. It's an easy choice. A no brainer.  King Coal   Sep-17-07 11:05 AM   #70 
     - I think he also has a sizable amount of support from the folks I'm talking about  bigtree   Sep-17-07 11:09 AM   #72 
     - Seems like she is the media's choice. I don't think the Dem base  The Wielding Truth   Sep-17-07 11:16 AM   #76 
  - I Think It's People Who Either Don't Have The Time Or Those Who  ChiciB1   Sep-17-07 09:02 AM   #4 
  - I agree that our group here is much more ambitious about advancing their concerns  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:08 AM   #11 
  - You are supposed to be doing due-diligence to get the appropriate nominee elected  TheBorealAvenger   Sep-17-07 09:12 AM   #17 
     - That's why I took pains to stress the general election  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:19 AM   #21 
  - I think the opposite.  jobycom   Sep-17-07 09:36 AM   #33 
  - that was a very well fleshed-out perspective  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:42 AM   #36 
  - I think some are misguided  sandnsea   Sep-17-07 10:28 AM   #57 
     - The reasons I hear associated with support for Sen. Clinton's candidacy  bigtree   Sep-17-07 10:41 AM   #61 
     - the party isn't mired in the past  sandnsea   Sep-17-07 11:12 AM   #73 
        - of course, that isn't my view  bigtree   Sep-17-07 11:17 AM   #77 
           - Democrats are better than Republicans  sandnsea   Sep-17-07 11:27 AM   #78 
     - Of course some are misguided! The debate is over which ones!  jobycom   Sep-17-07 11:36 AM   #80 
        - lol, that's funny  sandnsea   Sep-17-07 04:14 PM   #127 
  - I think more people are  waiting for hope   Sep-17-07 03:08 PM   #125 
  - Keep your powder dry!!  pocoloco   Sep-17-07 09:02 AM   #5 
  - You are confusing the Base with Sheep.  Le Taz Hot   Sep-17-07 09:03 AM   #6 
  - Also, Clinton with the party. n/t  sfexpat2000   Sep-17-07 09:07 AM   #10 
  - substitute 'the eventual nominee' for Clinton  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:10 AM   #14 
  - I can remember years ago,  H2O Man   Sep-17-07 10:52 AM   #65 
     - I did (deliberately) set up Sen. Clinton as the prime example of my belief  bigtree   Sep-17-07 11:00 AM   #67 
  - The DLC ARE sheep.  Double T   Sep-17-07 09:09 AM   #12 
  - perhaps, in an extremely biased and subjective view  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:14 AM   #19 
  - Not at all.  Le Taz Hot   Sep-17-07 09:32 AM   #30 
     - that 'dogma' would only apply if one actually didn't believe the Democratic party stood for them  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:47 AM   #37 
        - Are your concerns compatible with those of DLC?  notsodumbhillbilly   Sep-17-07 10:27 AM   #56 
           - no. not from what folks here present as the philosophy and intentions of the DLC  bigtree   Sep-17-07 10:48 AM   #62 
              - ...from what folks *here* present...?  notsodumbhillbilly   Sep-17-07 11:58 AM   #82 
                 - right. just like that.  bigtree   Sep-17-07 12:24 PM   #84 
                    - Oh, Gee  Hydra   Sep-17-07 02:15 PM   #111 
                       - I love how you put that comment in quotes as if I those were my words  bigtree   Sep-17-07 07:14 PM   #132 
  - "The Base" translates to "Al Qaeda"  TahitiNut   Sep-18-07 02:31 PM   #163 
  - Considering the polls, somebody is obviously supporting her.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 09:05 AM   #7 
  - "DU is not representative of reality"?? Speak for yourself  TheBorealAvenger   Sep-17-07 09:09 AM   #13 
  - DU is representative of reality? Yes, and Dennis Kucinich is president.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 09:13 AM   #18 
     - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-17-07 10:19 AM   #50 
        - Ah, name-calling. Feel better about yourself?  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 10:31 AM   #59 
  - Again, poll numbers do not necessarily equal support.  Dawgs   Sep-17-07 09:20 AM   #22 
  - Sorry, but "name recognition" isn't a valid excuse.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 09:27 AM   #27 
  - Wrong.  Dawgs   Sep-17-07 12:51 PM   #91 
     - If that's what you want to believe.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 01:15 PM   #92 
        - So, you choose to ignore what I said because it doesn't fit your opinion.  Dawgs   Sep-17-07 03:01 PM   #123 
  - true.  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:28 AM   #28 
  - Wow! Someone who understands how polls, etc. work. That felt GOOD! nt  MookieWilson   Sep-17-07 10:13 AM   #48 
  - If You Mean By Base Rank And File Dems And Not Activists I Tend To Agree  DemocratSinceBirth   Sep-17-07 09:05 AM   #8 
  - My loathing for Hillary has nothing to do with "threatening to abandon our nominee"  TheBorealAvenger   Sep-17-07 09:06 AM   #9 
  - that's why I led the post with 'I think'  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:10 AM   #15 
  - Voters Will Speak Soon  KharmaTrain   Sep-17-07 09:11 AM   #16 
  - They don't deserve it and they are not the base. nt.  IndianaJones   Sep-17-07 09:22 AM   #23 
  - I table for Edwards about once a week, and the Hillary supporters  JDPriestly   Sep-17-07 09:23 AM   #25 
  - that has to be an anomaly. Hillary supporters are republicans?  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:25 AM   #26 
  - Yes. Those are the people I have heard talk about Hillary.  JDPriestly   Sep-17-07 10:23 AM   #51 
     - complete opposite, in my experience  bigtree   Sep-17-07 10:28 AM   #58 
        - There seems to be a regional difference.  JDPriestly   Sep-17-07 01:18 PM   #93 
           - The west would be a monster  bigtree   Sep-17-07 01:47 PM   #97 
           - Oregon has a liberal west and a conservative east.  JDPriestly   Sep-17-07 08:05 PM   #144 
           - I completely agree about the regional thing.  Hell Hath No Fury   Sep-17-07 02:28 PM   #116 
  - a list of apolitical dems and/or repubs for Clinton  onenote   Sep-17-07 09:37 AM   #34 
  - Alot of people want Hillary  PDenton   Sep-18-07 02:20 PM   #159 
  - "I'm thinking of voters who can be counted on voting for our Democratic nominee  Totally Committed   Sep-17-07 09:29 AM   #29 
  - the system does corral us into the two choices  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:36 AM   #32 
  - Party "purists" willing to accept anyone the bosses select.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Sep-17-07 09:33 AM   #31 
  - the 'deciding' by the 'bosses' may influence voters  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:39 AM   #35 
     - Which is one reason there should be a national primary and limited campaigns.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Sep-17-07 09:58 AM   #43 
  - Trying to divide the base only hurts the party in the end.HRC  OHdem10   Sep-17-07 09:47 AM   #38 
  - I'm referring to support for the eventual nominee  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:51 AM   #40 
  - Where I am, the most fervent Clinton supporters tend to be older women  thecatburgler   Sep-17-07 09:56 AM   #41 
  - That would explain a lot. I mostly meet young people with  JDPriestly   Sep-17-07 10:24 AM   #52 
  - I'm "active" (-as in GOTV) base and I refuse to support her and her corporatism.  mod mom   Sep-17-07 10:03 AM   #46 
  - right. I really didn't mean to characterize all of the party base as Clinton supporters  bigtree   Sep-17-07 10:13 AM   #47 
  - I have voted for Democrats 100% of the time in 100% of the elections since 1976  leftofthedial   Sep-17-07 10:14 AM   #49 
  - but they will have a base  bigtree   Sep-17-07 10:25 AM   #53 
  - Pragamatism has sunk my country into an abyss of hell.  mmonk   Sep-17-07 10:26 AM   #55 
  - I don't view myself as akin to republicans in ANY way  bigtree   Sep-17-07 11:03 AM   #69 
     - No you're certainly not. You're a dedicated democrat.  mmonk   Sep-17-07 07:19 PM   #135 
  - My wife is what you would consider the Democratic base.  Larry Ogg   Sep-17-07 10:38 AM   #60 
  - I really don't believe that 'uninformed' best describes the 'base' I'm talking about  bigtree   Sep-17-07 10:51 AM   #64 
     - You gave very little descriptive of a democratic base that would support your view other than,  Larry Ogg   Sep-17-07 01:52 PM   #98 
        - well, let me break my impression of a base down for you  bigtree   Sep-17-07 07:17 PM   #133 
  - The base is a lot more ideologically varied than many would like to admit.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 11:02 AM   #68 
  - agreed  bigtree   Sep-17-07 11:13 AM   #74 
     - When presented with a choice between a real Republican..  The Vinyl Ripper   Sep-17-07 11:49 AM   #81 
     - Yes, just like in '06, when voters picked all those Republicans.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 12:45 PM   #89 
        - What makes me think their voting patterns will change?  The Vinyl Ripper   Sep-17-07 01:34 PM   #95 
           - You're giving the voting public too much credit.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 01:38 PM   #96 
           - The swing in sheer numbers of voters wasn't really all *that* large..  The Vinyl Ripper   Sep-17-07 01:54 PM   #99 
              - See #101  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 01:55 PM   #102 
           - Generic Dem is up 16 points on Generic Rep.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 01:55 PM   #101 
              - It is the *motivated* who will come out to vote..  The Vinyl Ripper   Sep-17-07 02:04 PM   #105 
                 - Gee, I guess anecdotal evidence trumps all.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 02:08 PM   #107 
                 - So you disagree that it is the motivated who vote? n/t  The Vinyl Ripper   Sep-17-07 02:09 PM   #108 
                    - Democrats were plenty motivated in '06. Nothing has changed.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 02:13 PM   #110 
                       - Inexplicable?  The Vinyl Ripper   Sep-17-07 02:24 PM   #115 
                          - Yes, that explains why Hillary is doing so well in head-to-head polls and why we did so well in '06.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 02:31 PM   #117 
                 - Hillary WILL motivate many Dems....  bvar22   Sep-17-07 04:13 PM   #126 
     - I agree, and I think that '06 was an example.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 12:46 PM   #90 
  - Correct. Sadly, these fairweather friends of the Dem party  Truth Hurts A Lot   Sep-17-07 12:30 PM   #85 
  - I'm about as far as it's possible to be...  The Vinyl Ripper   Sep-17-07 12:32 PM   #86 
  - The Clintons are well off, not me  Larkspur   Sep-17-07 04:50 PM   #129 
  - These are the same people who said Gore was the same as Bush  LeftCoast   Sep-17-07 12:34 PM   #87 
  - Agreed. I'm sure President Gore would have nominated John Roberts to the SC.  TwilightZone   Sep-17-07 12:41 PM   #88 
  - Who are the same? The people who don't support Hillary in the Primaries?  impeachdubya   Sep-17-07 03:01 PM   #122 
  - I think you are very wrong.  robinlynne   Sep-17-07 01:55 PM   #100 
  - Your premise is faulty  Hydra   Sep-17-07 02:02 PM   #103 
  - make my day.  bigtree   Sep-17-07 07:18 PM   #134 
  - She's not my first choice, but I'll vote for her.  smiley_glad_hands   Sep-17-07 02:12 PM   #109 
  - my hubby was a Repub until Clinton's 2nd term, he is now an avowed Indie and won't vote in any  AZDemDist6   Sep-17-07 02:17 PM   #112 
  - I'm The Base And I Don't Support Hillary - Never Would She Voted For Bush's War  lostnotforgotten   Sep-17-07 02:36 PM   #118 
  - I think if you end up not supporting the nominee you can't really be considered a 'base' of support  bigtree   Sep-17-07 07:20 PM   #136 
     - Maybe But I Am A Progressive Independent These Days  lostnotforgotten   Sep-17-07 07:58 PM   #143 
  - What a silly little post.  The Stranger   Sep-17-07 02:58 PM   #120 
  - do what you want. refuse to vote for the Democratic nominee  bigtree   Sep-17-07 07:23 PM   #138 
     - Maybe you need to spend a little time in politics.  The Stranger   Sep-18-07 09:11 AM   #151 
        - maybe you need to be less condescending about someone you know absolutely NOTHING about  bigtree   Sep-18-07 09:26 AM   #152 
           - Instead of trying to change who is actually the base of the party because they won't vote for your  The Stranger   Sep-18-07 04:44 PM   #164 
  - How DARE YOU tell us who we need to support in the Primaries to be "real" democrats.  impeachdubya   Sep-17-07 02:59 PM   #121 
  - I frickin said 'general' about a dozen times  bigtree   Sep-17-07 07:22 PM   #137 
     - Absolutely. And since we don't have a nominee, yet...  impeachdubya   Sep-17-07 08:48 PM   #146 
        - I really haven't begun to support the Clinton campaign  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:27 PM   #147 
           - I will enthusiastically support our nominee, too. Actually, I'm reconciling myself more with the  impeachdubya   Sep-18-07 02:09 PM   #157 
  - At this point it's all about name recognition, nothing more.  greyhound1966   Sep-17-07 03:03 PM   #124 
  - Party First  Everybody   Sep-17-07 05:50 PM   #131 
  - in the general election, it does matter whether we support the Democratic candidate  bigtree   Sep-17-07 07:25 PM   #139 
  - Myself, I'm a little sick of the party telling me who I have to vote for!  B Calm   Sep-17-07 07:26 PM   #140 
  - Well, excuuuuuuuuse me! I'm 57 years old and I have voted for nothing but Democrats my whole voting  scarletwoman   Sep-17-07 07:36 PM   #141 
  - I'm sorry to hear that a nomination of Sen. Clinton will cause you to abandon the party  bigtree   Sep-17-07 07:54 PM   #142 
  - Well, of course I will be voting for Kucinich in the Primary. I'm not abandoning the Democratic  scarletwoman   Sep-17-07 08:24 PM   #145 
     - yet,  bigtree   Sep-17-07 09:30 PM   #148 
        - I recognize that. Since it's going to happen no matter which way I vote, the only way I can  scarletwoman   Sep-17-07 10:00 PM   #149 
           - don't forget  bigtree   Sep-18-07 06:51 AM   #150 
  - Thank you  mycritters2   Sep-18-07 11:48 AM   #155 
  - I "actually vote and support Democrats consistently enough to be called the party's base" and  RubyDuby in GA   Sep-18-07 11:30 AM   #153 
  - If you abandon the party nominee this time around  bigtree   Sep-18-07 06:54 PM   #165 
     - Nowhere ever did I say that I wouldn't vote for the eventual nominee. I simply stated that you shou  RubyDuby in GA   Sep-19-07 11:36 AM   #188 
  - I might consider voting for hillary...  PDenton   Sep-18-07 02:16 PM   #158 
  - Don't forget the legions of Democrats who get swept into power and authority  bigtree   Sep-18-07 06:56 PM   #166 
     - suppose that doesn't happen, though  PDenton   Sep-19-07 01:24 AM   #170 
        - I'm referring to judgeships, Cabinet positions and their employ, agency appointments  bigtree   Sep-19-07 07:43 AM   #174 
  - I think she's winning the Reagan democrat vote.  XemaSab   Sep-18-07 02:28 PM   #162 
  - that's a good thing  bigtree   Sep-18-07 07:14 PM   #167 
     - Notsomuch, no.  XemaSab   Sep-19-07 12:08 AM   #168 
        - I've never been so vain as to take my ball home because I haven't been represented enough  bigtree   Sep-19-07 07:24 AM   #172 
  - I think you are wrong.  losthills   Sep-19-07 12:15 AM   #169 
  - From what I'm seeing of her healthcare plan  Mythsaje   Sep-19-07 01:26 AM   #171 
  - she will have support from Democrats  bigtree   Sep-19-07 07:30 AM   #173 
  - Without yet reading the thread, let me say bullshit  lastliberalintexas   Sep-19-07 07:57 AM   #175 
  - "without reading the thread"  bigtree   Sep-19-07 08:01 AM   #176 
     - Which means I read your OP but not the replies  lastliberalintexas   Sep-19-07 08:54 AM   #180 
     - you do realize that there are two days of questions, responses, and my own answers on this thread?  bigtree   Sep-19-07 08:59 AM   #182 
        - Yes, that I am reading now  lastliberalintexas   Sep-19-07 09:11 AM   #183 
           - "I think" I believe" has preceded almost all of my comments. That's not "presenting as fact"  bigtree   Sep-19-07 09:24 AM   #184 
     - I have slogged through the whole thread...  clixtox   Sep-19-07 10:02 AM   #185 
  - I have consistently, always voted D for 43 years but would never vote for HRC  ima_sinnic   Sep-19-07 08:03 AM   #177 
  - If we don't get your vote in the general, you will be a 'former' base member  bigtree   Sep-19-07 08:24 AM   #178 
     - she is not a "Democrat," she is a corporacrat  ima_sinnic   Sep-19-07 08:51 AM   #179 
        - I think party loyalty is important in elevating our coalition of concerns and opposition  bigtree   Sep-19-07 08:57 AM   #181 
  - So she has the support of those with undue respect for authority and the establishment.  Radical Activist   Sep-19-07 11:38 AM   #189 
  - I don't agree with that.  bigtree   Sep-19-07 12:12 PM   #192 
     - If the establishment doesn't exist then who is running the party?  Radical Activist   Sep-19-07 12:42 PM   #193 
        - of course it 'exists'  bigtree   Sep-19-07 01:30 PM   #194 
  - ANY democrat should win the general election  iamthebandfanman   Sep-19-07 11:42 AM   #191 
 

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