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Reply #82: The big problem isn't that its secret, but that it isn't a secret at all... [View All]

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #74
82. The big problem isn't that its secret, but that it isn't a secret at all...
I'm not saying the information is presented in a Prentice Hall history textbook, generally it isn't, and even that isn't much of a secret. One of the reasons for "standardization" of textbooks, especially in history, civics, etc. is to "foster national unity and pride". This has nothing to do with the truth, but rather with lies by omission.

In addition to this, we have cultural traditions that lead to myths of the United States always being on the side of "good" however that's defined. Military intervention is generally regarded as a good in and of itself, outside of motives of those who order the intervention in the first place. We learned about wars such as the Texan war of Independence, and the Mexican-American war, yet we aren't taught that one of the big reason why the white Texans fought against Mexico was because they refused to release the slaves they imported into Mexico, which had already outlawed slavery.

We learn about the Spanish-American war, even are told it was a "mistake", but that it was justified because we freed the Cuban people. The facts, of course, don't bear this out, the United States, at the time, was literally itching for a war, and a weakened Spain was the perfect punching bag. The United States also wanted an overseas Empire, extending across the Pacific, the Sandwich Isles(Hawaii) weren't enough, they needed the Philippines as well. The Cubans, in this war, weren't that better off than before the war, they traded one imperial power with another, that happened to be close, and eventually practically appointed their own dictators for the Isle's government. The Philippines was less enthusiastic about their new imperial masters, and after the killing of hundreds of thousands of Filipinos, that island colony finally was subdued.

Not to mention the numerous interventions into Latin America by the U.S. military during the first 30 years of the 20th century, even China wasn't immune. All of them at the behest of private U.S. owned corporations, killing thousands more people. WWI and WWII would more properly be called the "long war" or the "big fuckup" whichever you prefer.

WWI, of course, started due to tensions in Europe and a single gunshot, technically you can't really lay blame on any single nation or government, much less the United States, which maintained neutrality through much of it. However, after WWI ended, that was the big fuckup, the end of WWI set the stage for WWII and everything that followed from that. Some historians almost treat both wars as the same conflict, with a long truce in between.

After WWII, there were numerous fuckups and deliberate malfeasance involved in U.S. foreign policy. This mostly coincides with the rise of the Military-Industrial complex and the rise of The Company. This was the time of covert operations, rather than overt, but ignored, of the past. This was the time of overthrowing democracies to create U.S. or U.K. friendly business environments, using right wing dictatorships. Of course, many of these ended up biting us in the ass(Iran, Iraq, much of Latin America, etc.), again this killed thousands, if not millions of people.

The interesting thing is, when the average American is confronted with this information, even when well grounded in fact, they don't believe it. Its almost as if the citizens of this country are under the delusion that the nation is noble in and of itself. Call it a cult of Nationalism. I use nationalism instead of patriotism, which I feel are interchangeable in and of themselves, because of the negative connotation. Most Americans are belligerent assholes when it comes to people from other nations, yet another cultural tradition of ours, in fact, for many, all the atrocities committed by the United States could be justified on the sole premise that the people affected(killed) weren't American.

This isn't Unique to America, obviously, many European countries, during the heights of their empires, justified them in similar terms, usually called "White Man's burden" or "civilizing the savages". Probably more uncouth, but pretty much the same justifications as the United States uses today, we just call it "Spreading Democracy". We seem to forget that these are but genteel lies, made so that Americans won't mind being thrown into the meatgrinder every now and then. We could blast the truth through every television station in the United States, 24/7, 365 days a year, and it wouldn't affect shit, Americans would just turn off the TV.

Call it institutional ignorance, or a cultural blind spot, if you will, but Americans seem to be extremely stubborn about facts that contradict accepted wisdom.
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  -Unmentionable Things in U.S. Politics Time for change  Aug-17-07 10:06 PM   #0 
  - Wow! But there are more examples  EndlessMaze   Aug-18-07 01:10 AM   #1 
  - For those to whom much has been given, little will be asked.  CrispyQGirl   Aug-18-07 06:23 AM   #7 
  - good points, let me add something else  MissWaverly   Aug-18-07 08:25 AM   #16 
  - Yes, all those things are taboo to one degree or another  Time for change   Aug-18-07 03:50 PM   #48 
  - I was just reflecting this morning on the same subject in relation to the UK  KCabotDullesMarxIII   Aug-19-07 03:18 PM   #89 
     - The issues *are* discussed but not by politicians with real power at the moment  LeftishBrit   Aug-21-07 09:06 AM   #99 
  - Certain things, if mentioned, would bring this nation to it's knees.  Philosoraptor   Aug-18-07 02:53 AM   #2 
  - In the way that you envision that  Time for change   Aug-18-07 11:14 AM   #24 
  - Poignant post...  Solon   Aug-18-07 03:26 AM   #3 
  - esp. when super patriots keep jingling keys to the nukes  MissWaverly   Aug-18-07 09:29 AM   #20 
  - Yes -- the jingoism is a good part of it  Time for change   Aug-18-07 09:16 PM   #74 
     - The big problem isn't that its secret, but that it isn't a secret at all...  Solon   Aug-19-07 02:52 AM   #82 
        - I agree with a great deal of what you say here  Time for change   Aug-19-07 08:36 AM   #84 
  - to this list I would add "Questioning what happened on 9/11" . . . n/t  OneBlueSky   Aug-18-07 03:56 AM   #4 
  - sssshhhhh  Philosoraptor   Aug-18-07 04:10 AM   #5 
  - I just can't believe it took over 5 hours for the loonies to come flocking from the basement.  Balbus   Aug-18-07 01:42 PM   #32 
  - There was never an investigation of what happened. Never.  TankLV   Aug-18-07 03:04 PM   #43 
     - It happened cuz the terraist hate us for our freedumb  drking81   Aug-18-07 09:45 PM   #78 
  - Absolutely  Time for change   Aug-18-07 02:58 PM   #42 
  - I disagree about 9/11. The 9/11 conspiracy theories have been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked.  Perry Logan   Aug-18-07 06:00 AM   #6 
  - If there had been a real investigation, there would be no questions.  baldguy   Aug-18-07 07:06 AM   #8 
  - Gee perry logan....I guess you are right....fer sher!  ooglymoogly   Aug-18-07 07:56 AM   #11 
  - self delete wrong place.  ooglymoogly   Aug-18-07 08:03 AM   #12 
  - Just one question...  The Vinyl Ripper   Aug-18-07 08:25 AM   #17 
  - Logical  Summer93   Aug-18-07 10:19 AM   #23 
  - In cases of security threats though..  The Vinyl Ripper   Aug-18-07 01:02 PM   #28 
  - Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.  raccoon   Aug-21-07 08:39 AM   #97 
  - Why should we listen to them?  Time for change   Aug-18-07 09:09 AM   #19 
  - yes sir...and yes indeed....  ooglymoogly   Aug-18-07 12:52 PM   #27 
  - "I don't have an engineering bacfkground" - that is WHY YOU will never  TankLV   Aug-18-07 03:12 PM   #44 
     - My belief in MIHOP is not based on what caused the towers to fall  Time for change   Aug-18-07 03:45 PM   #47 
     - Quite a few engineers believe otherwise.  irislake   Aug-19-07 08:52 AM   #86 
     - Sorry To Prick Your Certitude, See "Architects And Engineers For Truth" At...  Fainter   Aug-19-07 04:38 PM   #92 
  - enlighten yourself with David Ray Griffin's "Debunking 9/11 Debunking"  bbgrunt   Aug-18-07 01:38 PM   #31 
  - No. Enlighten yourself on the subject here:  KCabotDullesMarxIII   Aug-19-07 03:28 PM   #91 
  - The official story can't be correct. There's hard proof that they at least KNEW 9/11 was going to  DutchLiberal   Aug-18-07 02:15 PM   #37 
  - Now - THAT part of the truth is also a FACT.  TankLV   Aug-18-07 03:13 PM   #45 
  - After 6 years? I don't think so.  undeterred   Aug-18-07 02:44 PM   #40 
  - Neither can the White House Officials  irislake   Aug-19-07 08:37 AM   #85 
  - K&R  Senator   Aug-18-07 07:32 AM   #9 
  - Excellent post. And it's not just politicians....  Junkdrawer   Aug-18-07 07:43 AM   #10 
  - Thank you -- Yes, it certainly is not just the politicians  Time for change   Aug-18-07 04:30 PM   #49 
  - Malloy...Rosie...Jim Fetzer....  Junkdrawer   Aug-18-07 07:19 PM   #62 
  - Not forgetting to mention that so called secret plan  nolabels   Aug-19-07 07:32 AM   #83 
  - Another winner TFC-thanks. I am surprised at the reluctance even in the blogosphere  mod mom   Aug-18-07 08:05 AM   #13 
  - I believe there's a strong element of denial there  Time for change   Aug-18-07 12:37 PM   #25 
  - Its great to see someone put what most of us are thinking  ooglymoogly   Aug-18-07 08:06 AM   #14 
  - code words: remaining vital national security interests in Iraq  leftchick   Aug-18-07 08:22 AM   #15 
  - Yeah, code words, good point  Time for change   Aug-18-07 06:38 PM   #59 
  - Great post!  loudsue   Aug-18-07 09:09 AM   #18 
  - Thank you -- yes, that's a real shame  Time for change   Aug-18-07 09:22 PM   #75 
  - Wonderful K&R n/t  slipslidingaway   Aug-18-07 09:46 AM   #21 
  - excellent post!  G_j   Aug-18-07 09:46 AM   #22 
  - That's the whole point.  LWolf   Aug-18-07 12:50 PM   #26 
  - I most certainly hope that they are up for a big change  Time for change   Aug-18-07 07:03 PM   #60 
     - I'm with you on that one.  LWolf   Aug-18-07 07:13 PM   #61 
  - This dynamic is like that of a dysfunctional family  bleever   Aug-18-07 01:17 PM   #29 
  - I believe that the dysfunctional family parallel is a good part of the picture  Time for change   Aug-18-07 05:09 PM   #52 
  - I think JFK left a response too your OP.  Larry Ogg   Aug-18-07 01:26 PM   #30 
  - Wow, what a great speech!  Time for change   Aug-18-07 06:14 PM   #58 
  - ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##  DU GrovelBot   Aug-18-07 01:42 PM   #33 
  - great post. Let's also not forget that  bbgrunt   Aug-18-07 02:00 PM   #34 
  - Thank you -- wasn't aware that some of those people had "debunked" the 9-11 Truth Movement  Time for change   Aug-18-07 08:16 PM   #65 
     - well they are all certainly wary of being lambasted like  bbgrunt   Aug-18-07 08:42 PM   #67 
        - Take Chomsky and Corn for example  Time for change   Aug-18-07 08:51 PM   #69 
           - I know. But then it seems impossible that John Conyers would  bbgrunt   Aug-18-07 09:16 PM   #73 
  - Recommended! Best OP I've read in a long time. More:  DutchLiberal   Aug-18-07 02:02 PM   #35 
  - Thank you -- Yes, the cruel things that some of our troops do to the inhabitants of other countries  Time for change   Aug-18-07 07:34 PM   #63 
     - But whenever somebody speaks out about such crimes, the MSM destroys them.  DutchLiberal   Aug-19-07 01:55 PM   #87 
  - Failing to speak with forthrightness about the coming impacts of peak oil  IDemo   Aug-18-07 02:14 PM   #36 
  - K&R+ a cross-post from an interesting parent thread that does discuss "unmentionables"  bobthedrummer   Aug-18-07 02:24 PM   #38 
  - "An election that could be cancelled by decree"  Time for change   Aug-18-07 09:06 PM   #70 
  - Not to nitpick, but didn't Lyndon Johnson lie first about Vietnam?  undeterred   Aug-18-07 02:38 PM   #39 
  - I debated myself on whether it would be more accurate to say that  Time for change   Aug-18-07 02:52 PM   #41 
     - Fantastic post.  undeterred   Aug-18-07 03:20 PM   #46 
     - Make it FOUR Presidents  TheOtherMaven   Aug-18-07 07:44 PM   #64 
        - Even worse  Time for change   Aug-18-07 08:20 PM   #66 
  - If you had a free press everything would be mentionable.  irislake   Aug-18-07 04:33 PM   #50 
  - Yes, it would  Time for change   Aug-18-07 09:13 PM   #72 
  - k+r  Progs Rock   Aug-18-07 04:59 PM   #51 
  - 10 Zen Monkies has a similar list  intaglio   Aug-18-07 05:18 PM   #53 
  - That's a great list -- I didn't know that existed  Time for change   Aug-18-07 09:10 PM   #71 
  - This goes into the "Perception Management" file. K&R!  BornagainDUer   Aug-18-07 05:25 PM   #54 
  - 9/11 attack was  krj44   Aug-18-07 05:26 PM   #55 
  - K&R  bonito   Aug-18-07 05:38 PM   #56 
  - Holy Mackerel!  nathan hale   Aug-18-07 05:44 PM   #57 
  - My heresies  Lydia Leftcoast   Aug-18-07 08:48 PM   #68 
  - Great post. nt  raccoon   Aug-21-07 08:44 AM   #98 
  - Here is the most glaring omission to me  Melissa G   Aug-18-07 09:22 PM   #76 
  - Those are big ones -- and shamelessly hidden from the American people  Time for change   Aug-18-07 09:35 PM   #77 
  - Class  Romulox   Aug-18-07 09:47 PM   #79 
  - Thank you  bob_weaver   Aug-18-07 09:54 PM   #80 
  - No critiques of Israel allowed either.  Hardrada   Aug-19-07 12:55 AM   #81 
  - Yes, you are very right!  DutchLiberal   Aug-19-07 02:11 PM   #88 
  - Your best ever. Bookmarked!!  understandinglife   Aug-19-07 03:20 PM   #90 
  - Kickin' for TFC!  Melissa G   Aug-19-07 06:45 PM   #93 
  - You can talk about conditions in our prisons  Lilith Velkor   Aug-19-07 07:39 PM   #94 
  - We are all guilty of murder because we are paying these people...  L0oniX   Aug-19-07 08:01 PM   #95 
  - thank you, thank you- time for change  blondie58   Aug-21-07 08:15 AM   #96 
 

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