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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. Very true
Recent studies which I don't have the time to cite right now demonstrate that the U.S. has grown into a more class-ridid society than Europe and the U.K. There's less chance here to improve upon the socio-economic strata you're born into than across the pond. Further, poverty here -- in fact the bottom 40 percentile of U.S. incomes -- is more grueling than in France, the Benelux countries, Germany, the U.K., and Scandinavia. (I not long ago returned from a trip to Brussels and Aachen Germany and felt like I was returning from civilization.) Bottom line, pick your parents well!
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  -A quick message for those that think the working poor should just "Get better jobs". redqueen  Aug-09-07 02:14 PM   #0 
  - Kick! n/t  snappyturtle   Aug-09-07 02:22 PM   #1 
  - Not to say this isn't so but I have observed something else too.  Sapere aude   Aug-09-07 02:23 PM   #2 
  - Accounting is one of the best fields to be in right now  Sadie4629   Aug-09-07 02:29 PM   #4 
  - When I graduated I had to do the "books" no computer.  Sapere aude   Aug-09-07 02:52 PM   #7 
  - An MBA is no substitute for real life on-the-job experience.  Selatius   Aug-09-07 07:46 PM   #64 
     - It sure as shit is if the job requires it  cgrindley   Aug-10-07 01:48 PM   #133 
        - Your last statements don't compute  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 01:59 PM   #136 
           - Experience from the 70s doesn't mean anything  cgrindley   Aug-10-07 02:19 PM   #144 
              - I'm not a boomer...  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 03:00 PM   #162 
                 - Yeah, I'm pure Gen X and the world can't be changed  cgrindley   Aug-10-07 07:46 PM   #179 
                    - ouch.  LiberalAndProud   Aug-10-07 08:04 PM   #181 
                    - yep, your pure gen X--look out for #1 and to hell with everybody else  book_worm   Aug-11-07 09:59 AM   #188 
                    - Well, that's one (bleak) view of the 60s  ProudDad   Aug-11-07 02:09 PM   #197 
  - The Dept of labor  speakclearly   Aug-10-07 10:33 AM   #102 
  - "poor people"  redqueen   Aug-10-07 12:21 PM   #110 
  - This is what we have been advising younger people to do  Hestia   Aug-10-07 01:42 PM   #130 
  - The "poor people"  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:03 PM   #137 
  - I did all sorts of shitty jobs before I got my current job  nxylas   Aug-10-07 11:07 AM   #103 
  - IBM is outsourcing everything but controllers and VPs to India now  Progressive_In_NC   Aug-10-07 02:05 PM   #138 
  - Could it be there is a bit of "ageism" going on?  zanne   Aug-10-07 09:15 AM   #95 
  - I ran into that same sort of thing  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 01:48 PM   #134 
  - It is age discrimination and it happens a lot in the computer biz  demobabe   Aug-10-07 08:29 PM   #183 
     - And high-caffeine cola  ProudDad   Aug-11-07 02:12 PM   #198 
  - Ageism is absolutely rampant in America today.  greyhound1966   Aug-10-07 02:51 PM   #159 
     - Or do what I did  ProudDad   Aug-11-07 02:14 PM   #199 
  - K&R. Love Barbara, love Bill. nt  eppur_se_muova   Aug-09-07 02:29 PM   #3 
  - I work in food service, and just about every coworker I've known  RandomKoolzip   Aug-09-07 02:33 PM   #5 
  - Fiscal conservatives might try entering the world of reality?  redqueen   Aug-09-07 02:46 PM   #6 
  - That's a big assumption--  Sadie4629   Aug-09-07 02:57 PM   #9 
  - Yeah, I know. People who go into engineering, science, etc. get ahead. Whoopty shit.  RandomKoolzip   Aug-09-07 03:17 PM   #15 
  - not sure about engineering  hfojvt   Aug-09-07 03:36 PM   #24 
  - I worked as a janitor for a while, too.  RandomKoolzip   Aug-09-07 03:48 PM   #33 
  - Been there, done that  Sadie4629   Aug-09-07 03:47 PM   #32 
     - You never had to think, organize your thoughts, and communicate with others in ANY of your jobs?  Iris   Aug-09-07 04:32 PM   #44 
     - You don't have to have a degree in English  Sadie4629   Aug-09-07 04:49 PM   #48 
        - Actually, my post was about writing and thinking, not English degress. And becoming literate.  Iris   Aug-09-07 05:01 PM   #51 
           - OK. I misunderstood.  Sadie4629   Aug-09-07 05:23 PM   #56 
           - Most positions don't really require a degree in anything.  Iris   Aug-09-07 07:59 PM   #68 
              - It's an HR disqualification criteria  Nobody   Aug-10-07 08:45 AM   #91 
                 - Check this out for HR disqualification efforts  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:10 PM   #141 
                 - Is your hint for people getting their first job out of college?  Iris   Aug-10-07 04:59 PM   #170 
           - That explains why  Nobody   Aug-10-07 08:32 AM   #86 
              - you forgot , "we have to solution this opportunity".....(translation -  ladywnch   Aug-10-07 12:57 PM   #121 
              - Exactly. And also shows the insecurity of the people in these positions.  Iris   Aug-10-07 05:01 PM   #171 
     - Spell check eliminated the need for proofreaders?  eridani   Aug-09-07 09:08 PM   #76 
        - Thank you! So many people think spellcheck catches everything.  raccoon   Aug-10-07 08:36 AM   #88 
        - Whenever there were rumors of layoffs  GMFORD   Aug-10-07 01:29 PM   #128 
        - Is 'proofreader' even a job?  redqueen   Aug-10-07 12:03 PM   #108 
           - Proofreader is a job at typesetters, printers ....  Scout   Aug-10-07 04:13 PM   #165 
           - I have seen ads for proof readers before  Nikia   Aug-11-07 12:35 PM   #190 
  - Ever see "The Corporation"?  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:07 PM   #139 
  - Hey, I think I saw you in Ratatouille. You're the man who killed a person with his thumb, right?  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Aug-09-07 04:42 PM   #47 
  - Guilty as charged!  RandomKoolzip   Aug-09-07 07:13 PM   #61 
     - I loved "Ratatouille". And here's an avatar for you:  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Aug-10-07 11:53 AM   #104 
  - ??  OldTymeDem   Aug-10-07 12:05 PM   #109 
  - A History degree is "baloney"?  redqueen   Aug-10-07 12:22 PM   #111 
  - Shit, you mean I just wasted 4 years of my life on "baloney"?  WildEyedLiberal   Aug-11-07 12:21 AM   #185 
     - History major wasn't useless to me  Yupster   Aug-11-07 01:01 PM   #193 
  - "Why get an education in an area that wont improve your standard of living?"  Bill McBlueState   Aug-10-07 12:43 PM   #114 
  - I know people who have degrees in computer science  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 12:53 PM   #119 
  - Ah, that old republican call  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:13 PM   #143 
  - Oh goodBYE.  HughBeaumont   Aug-10-07 02:42 PM   #155 
  - Take your hatred of the humanities and shove it!  ellisonz   Aug-10-07 08:50 PM   #184 
  - That's fine if you can accurately predict that a job is available in 4-6 years  Contrary1   Aug-11-07 09:53 AM   #187 
  - So You're Going to Support a System That Treats College as a Vocational School?  Crisco   Aug-12-07 07:45 AM   #202 
  - But, but, but  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 12:39 PM   #113 
     - You misheard.  redqueen   Aug-10-07 12:53 PM   #118 
  - Nominated.  H2O Man   Aug-09-07 02:53 PM   #8 
  - Thanks to you too.  redqueen   Aug-09-07 03:02 PM   #10 
     - Years ago,  H2O Man   Aug-09-07 04:28 PM   #42 
        - Nice one...  redqueen   Aug-09-07 05:00 PM   #50 
           - I think if you  H2O Man   Aug-09-07 07:35 PM   #63 
  - Don't even get me started. Buying an education is the most ridiculous  Katherine Brengle   Aug-09-07 03:04 PM   #11 
  - I like your passion!  redqueen   Aug-09-07 03:17 PM   #14 
  - Hmm...  Katherine Brengle   Aug-09-07 03:34 PM   #23 
  - BRAVO!  redqueen   Aug-09-07 03:39 PM   #26 
  - Any time :D  Katherine Brengle   Aug-09-07 03:41 PM   #28 
  - I went to college on grants, loans, and scholarships too...  AnotherGreenWorld   Aug-09-07 03:52 PM   #35 
  - And don't forget affirmative action - oops I meant legacy enrollment  Nobody   Aug-10-07 08:57 AM   #92 
  - like you said, it's not even information, it's certification  hfojvt   Aug-09-07 04:05 PM   #38 
  - Fantastic post.  redqueen   Aug-09-07 05:16 PM   #54 
  - Excellent post! It really saddens me to think of all that has been stolen from us.  NotGivingUp   Aug-09-07 08:17 PM   #70 
     - it seems these days what has most been stolen  hfojvt   Aug-09-07 08:46 PM   #75 
        - Years ago, when I was a waitress  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 01:23 PM   #126 
  - Higher education should be free  alarimer   Aug-09-07 07:31 PM   #62 
  - I think the idea of  Katherine Brengle   Aug-10-07 08:29 AM   #85 
  - Amen to that, Katherine!  raccoon   Aug-10-07 08:39 AM   #89 
  - My BIL went to trade school instead of high school, he's a plumber - he makes $40/hr.  Katherine Brengle   Aug-10-07 08:44 AM   #90 
  - There is something to be said for old fashioned apprenticeship  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 05:36 PM   #177 
  - Most of those jobs  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 01:29 PM   #127 
  - Well I believe in education for education's sake  alarimer   Aug-10-07 04:48 PM   #168 
  - Education isn't just about acquiring knowledge,  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 05:22 PM   #174 
  - That was my mindset as I set off for college.  Katherine Brengle   Aug-12-07 09:03 AM   #203 
  - True, most jobs don't require higher education, but the employers do.  notmyprez   Aug-10-07 05:07 PM   #173 
  - I remember those "old days"  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 05:29 PM   #175 
  - This is exactly the problem - we've created an atmosphere where  Katherine Brengle   Aug-12-07 09:06 AM   #204 
  - Great Post Again!  Megahurtz   Aug-10-07 08:05 PM   #182 
  - Progressives should be working harder on this issue  Bill McBlueState   Aug-10-07 01:20 PM   #123 
     - I think getting universal health care may be more important at the moment  alarimer   Aug-10-07 04:51 PM   #169 
        - And corporate welfare  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 05:33 PM   #176 
  - Well, guess what.  Perragrande   Aug-09-07 07:53 PM   #65 
  - Damn...  Katherine Brengle   Aug-10-07 08:17 AM   #81 
  - Like you, I'm over 50, and have several degrees.  raccoon   Aug-10-07 09:03 AM   #93 
  - That sucks!  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 01:46 PM   #132 
     - Yeah and some white males have the same problem I do.  Perragrande   Aug-10-07 03:59 PM   #164 
        - Well this discussion indicates that it is a widespread problem  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 05:03 PM   #172 
  - An added point  MountainLaurel   Aug-09-07 08:07 PM   #69 
  - Great point --  Katherine Brengle   Aug-10-07 08:18 AM   #82 
  - Your post has made my day.  Selatius   Aug-09-07 08:20 PM   #71 
  - It's absolutely criminal.  Katherine Brengle   Aug-10-07 08:21 AM   #83 
     - yep, employee mills  Bill McBlueState   Aug-10-07 01:23 PM   #125 
        - A new and unique form of Slave Labor  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 01:57 PM   #135 
  - It was much better 40 years ago  eridani   Aug-09-07 09:18 PM   #78 
  - Exactly - but people grow more and more apathetic.  Katherine Brengle   Aug-10-07 08:23 AM   #84 
  - What a fantastic post.  myrna minx   Aug-10-07 10:32 AM   #101 
  - You and me both buddy. n/t  Gonnabuymeagun   Aug-10-07 01:17 PM   #122 
  - Here! Here!  Megahurtz   Aug-10-07 08:00 PM   #180 
  - Yeah. With time and money anyone can get an MD, JD, PhD, or certainly an MBA  AnotherGreenWorld   Aug-09-07 03:42 PM   #29 
  - Exactly - it's ALL about money.  Katherine Brengle   Aug-10-07 08:32 AM   #87 
  - See MY post on the SENSIBLE American way of NON-subsidized health care and education.  HughBeaumont   Aug-09-07 03:46 PM   #31 
  - Great post...  redqueen   Aug-09-07 05:19 PM   #55 
  - So you'd actually say that to a kid? to your own child?  cgrindley   Aug-10-07 01:45 PM   #131 
     - I didn't say that.  Katherine Brengle   Aug-12-07 09:12 AM   #205 
  - Not everyone can get educated  sandnsea   Aug-09-07 03:07 PM   #12 
  - I don't even think it's so much that anyone is dumb...  redqueen   Aug-09-07 03:12 PM   #13 
  - What I don't like:  Jed Dilligan   Aug-09-07 04:10 PM   #40 
     - Very true  davekriss   Aug-09-07 05:29 PM   #57 
        - That's sad, considering how many Americans  redqueen   Aug-09-07 05:42 PM   #58 
  - No, education doesn't guarantee a good job, BUT  slackmaster   Aug-09-07 03:18 PM   #16 
  - A living wage shouldn't be dependent on a certain "type" of job. n/t  redqueen   Aug-09-07 03:22 PM   #18 
  - You're right. Everyone deserves to be paid a living wage and treated w/respect.  NotGivingUp   Aug-09-07 08:29 PM   #73 
  - A degree is NOT necessarily "education"  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:25 PM   #148 
  - Ivory tower syndrome  gollygee   Aug-09-07 03:19 PM   #17 
  - They'd say you picked the wrong field, of course.  redqueen   Aug-09-07 03:23 PM   #19 
     - Then either people should be paid a living wage  gollygee   Aug-09-07 03:24 PM   #20 
     - I. HATE the "wrong field" assholes!!!!  HughBeaumont   Aug-09-07 03:51 PM   #34 
  - I might break even with my education at best  djohnson   Aug-09-07 03:29 PM   #21 
  - Disagree completely. We CAN and SHOULD expect that...  redqueen   Aug-09-07 03:30 PM   #22 
  - Completely?  djohnson   Aug-09-07 03:40 PM   #27 
     - I wonder how it measures up...  redqueen   Aug-09-07 03:43 PM   #30 
     - I opted to work for a small business  djohnson   Aug-09-07 03:53 PM   #36 
     - Hate to burst people's bubbles, but health care is bigger than any employer could tackle.  Selatius   Aug-09-07 07:58 PM   #67 
        - Class before country, and even self-concern.  redqueen   Aug-10-07 10:09 AM   #98 
        - There IS a solution  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:34 PM   #153 
     - You're right  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:30 PM   #152 
  - This is a very sad statement  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:28 PM   #149 
  - Jobs  Parche   Aug-09-07 03:39 PM   #25 
  - it is a shame you felt the need to post this...  buddhamama   Aug-09-07 03:58 PM   #37 
  - Maybe it's the recent influx of "newcomers"...  redqueen   Aug-09-07 04:18 PM   #41 
     - the 'it won't happen to me' crowd  buddhamama   Aug-09-07 04:29 PM   #43 
  - and it is only getting worse  G_j   Aug-09-07 04:07 PM   #39 
  - K&R  sfexpat2000   Aug-09-07 04:33 PM   #45 
  - Thanks!  redqueen   Aug-09-07 04:40 PM   #46 
     - Thank you for your work, redqueen.  sfexpat2000   Aug-09-07 05:07 PM   #52 
  - As if the poor can AFFORD education....(nm)  lynyrd_skynyrd   Aug-09-07 04:52 PM   #49 
  - That's their own fault, too!  redqueen   Aug-09-07 05:11 PM   #53 
     - And history keeps repeating itself  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 02:19 PM   #145 
  - SHAMELESS kick.  redqueen   Aug-09-07 06:39 PM   #59 
  - Recent case in point:  Lydia Leftcoast   Aug-09-07 06:49 PM   #60 
  - Yep... he's lucky.  redqueen   Aug-10-07 12:44 PM   #115 
  - I was thinking the same thing?  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 02:21 PM   #146 
  - Ph.D.s are being outsourced, too  Timbuk3   Aug-09-07 07:54 PM   #66 
  - I didn't realize that was a point of contention here on DU.  LostInAnomie   Aug-09-07 08:23 PM   #72 
  - It's nice to see all this agreement for a change  gollygee   Aug-09-07 09:11 PM   #77 
  - I saw a few too many "they should get a better job" comments.  redqueen   Aug-10-07 10:13 AM   #99 
  - Not only doesn't education do it all, but... if EVERYONE had "a good job"  bobbolink   Aug-09-07 08:36 PM   #74 
  - Contempt for the poor  Nobody   Aug-10-07 09:26 AM   #96 
  - You're so right about denial to protect from fear! I saw that when my son was kidnapped,  bobbolink   Aug-11-07 04:20 PM   #200 
  - I don't think a "good job"  Giant Robot   Aug-10-07 10:27 AM   #100 
     - Agreed... there shouldn't be a stigma for necessary but unglamorous jobs.  redqueen   Aug-10-07 11:54 AM   #105 
        - Some of the finest people I've known  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 02:38 PM   #154 
        - LOVED the Razor's Edge.  redqueen   Aug-10-07 02:47 PM   #157 
           - Me too!  tsegat01   Aug-10-07 02:56 PM   #160 
        - The stigma is in what it cannot provide for your family  realpolitik   Aug-10-07 04:40 PM   #166 
  - Indeed. Education doesn't create opportunity.  lumberjack_jeff   Aug-10-07 12:45 AM   #79 
  - Thank you so much for this OP  WildEyedLiberal   Aug-10-07 04:48 AM   #80 
  - While I agree with the general mindset of this thread,  raccoon   Aug-10-07 09:09 AM   #94 
  - The major problem is that  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:43 PM   #156 
  - My pleasure!  redqueen   Aug-10-07 11:57 AM   #106 
  - I've Got To Credit You For One Thing  Crisco   Aug-10-07 12:02 PM   #107 
     - I ALWAYS get asked "what are you going to do with a history degree?"  WildEyedLiberal   Aug-11-07 12:27 AM   #186 
        - History major here too  Yupster   Aug-11-07 01:14 PM   #195 
        - Underhyped for Training Purposes, IMO  Crisco   Aug-12-07 07:42 AM   #201 
  - K&R  OhioChick   Aug-10-07 10:05 AM   #97 
  - A college degree today = a 1950s high school diploma  kskiska   Aug-10-07 12:25 PM   #112 
  - My message to the working poor of America  realpolitik   Aug-10-07 12:49 PM   #116 
  - Shhh.  Tyler Durden   Aug-10-07 01:21 PM   #124 
     - I love that song!  redqueen   Aug-10-07 02:23 PM   #147 
     - I'm sorry...  realpolitik   Aug-10-07 04:42 PM   #167 
  - Education + intelligence guarantees plenty in a stupid, stupid America.  BlooInBloo   Aug-10-07 12:50 PM   #117 
  - What?  redqueen   Aug-10-07 12:53 PM   #120 
  - You need to bury the competition's education  cgrindley   Aug-10-07 01:34 PM   #129 
  - Bullshit. Undergrad degrees are largely the same (ie bad). One good grad degree suffices.  BlooInBloo   Aug-10-07 02:07 PM   #140 
     - Not right now, not for boomers but for Gen X's children  cgrindley   Aug-10-07 02:11 PM   #142 
        - I'm glad I'll probably be dead by then  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 02:48 PM   #158 
           - Yeah, me too  cgrindley   Aug-10-07 02:59 PM   #161 
              - I may not sound like it all the time here  ProudDad   Aug-10-07 03:50 PM   #163 
                 - Humans are more likely to kill each other off than be finished off by global warming.  Selatius   Aug-10-07 07:10 PM   #178 
  - In California, one answer to the income disparity for home health care workers has  pinto   Aug-10-07 02:29 PM   #150 
  - is "Better" a euphemism for taking on a 3rd, possibly 4th job?  chimpsrsmarter   Aug-10-07 02:30 PM   #151 
  - Mayor Jim Naugle thinks so  BuffyTheFundieSlayer   Aug-11-07 12:43 PM   #191 
  - My uncle was a janitor -- he retired to St. Petes in a 500K condo  aikoaiko   Aug-11-07 10:14 AM   #189 
  - Ah, but he could trust investors and came from a generation that cared.  HypnoToad   Aug-11-07 01:08 PM   #194 
     - I'm not sure what you mean.  aikoaiko   Aug-11-07 01:28 PM   #196 
  - I would encourage individuals to get more education when practical  Nikia   Aug-11-07 12:59 PM   #192 
 

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