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Reply #60: The difference between industry regulation and "saving people from themselves": [View All]

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-27-07 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. The difference between industry regulation and "saving people from themselves":
Edited on Fri Jul-27-07 06:50 PM by impeachdubya
Making sure that the gin you buy from the liquor store is actually gin, and not turpentine-

and...

Making the gin you buy from the liquor store against the law.

Seems to me, you're the one who can't see the difference. And, because of what I can only assume is a total inability to respond to the arguments *I* have put forth, you continue to make up a bunch of shit, try to put it in my mouth, and then argue against it. That may work with this guy-



But I'm not going to play along.

For example, you throw this out:

"I should be free to do whatever I want, so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else!"
and
"People should take responsibility for harm they cause to themselves"


I didn't say that. For instance, I support a SPHC system. And unlike some who would pick and choose which "sins" they think everyone's public health dollars should cover, I understand that just about everyone has done something potentially stupid and/or detrimental to their health that could rack up health costs. The person bitching about smokers may have had numerous sex partners. The person griping about druggies may eat a lot of trans fats. The person complaining about alcoholism may ride their motorcycle like an idiot. And so on. Either we get into this never-ending game about "who costs what and why", or we accept that everyone makes bad choices sometimes, and the price we pay in society is covering everyone's health, regardless. (Which actually ends up being cheaper, because under the current system we pay for those things anyway.) Beyond that, fund treatment on demand and make help available for people who have problems when they're ready to deal with them.

Which does not change the fact that consenting adults need to be free to make their own decisions about their own bodies. Get it? Do I need to say it in a different language? MY body doesn't belong to any church, or any state, it belongs to ME. Maybe that's a "teenagerish" philosophy. I don't give a fuck. I haven't been a "teenager" for quite a long time, and if anything, I'm MORE fed up with the busybodies and control freaks on this planet who seemingly have nothing better to do than try to run everyone else's life.

Now, in answer to your questions, which really don't have anything to do with the arguments I've put forth:

Do you believe in there being such a thing as a civilized society? Yes, like I also believe in the square root of -1. It's an abstraction, as well as a conglomeration of terms that are even harder to nail down than "libertarian". What's a civilized society? I believe in societies, I think we live in one. "Civilized"? I don't think it's civilized to lock people up because they choose to smoke a plant that other people don't want them to smoke. I don't think it's civilized to wage war on other countries based on lies. But, on the other hand, we have a civilization, so by definition we're "civilized". We're also a lot more civilized (using what I consider the moral definition) than many other societies have been throughout history, probably most.

Do you realize that taxes are not a violent institution robbing you of your livelihood? Yes.

Do you believe that people have a right to stay alive? Yes. I do NOT believe that other people have the right to tell those people what they can or cannot do, no matter how much they insist it is "well-meaning" control to keep those people alive. For instance, if a terminally ill person wants to die, I think they should have that right, TOO.

Okay, I answered your questions. Here are a few for you:

1) Do you think marijuana should be against the law?

2) Do you think alcohol should be against the law?

3) Do you think tobacco should be against the law?

4) Do you think that processed sugar should be against the law?

5) Do you think it should be against the law for two consenting adults of the same sex to have sex with each other in the privacy of their own home?

6) Do you think it should be legal for those two consenting gay adults to make a film of themselves having sex with each other?

7) Do you think it should be legal for the two consenting gay adults to give that film to another consenting adult to watch for their enjoyment?

8) Do you think it should be legal for the two consenting gay adults to sell that film to another consenting adult to watch for his or her enjoyment?

9) Now, repeat questions 5-8, but with consenting adult heterosexuals.

10) Do you think people should have the right to use birth control?

11) Do you think individual women, and not politicians and tv preachers, should be the ones in charge of their bodies when they're pregnant?

12) Do you think that the "right to stay alive" includes the right to use government and laws to tell other people what to do, when you don't like the choices they're making for themselves?

13) If an individual doesn't own his or her own body, and shouldn't be the final arbiter of all decisions pertaining to his or her own body, who does, and who should? (What other individual, individuals, or institution?)
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