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Reply #188: How would I expect someone to take it? For starters, like a rational adult. [View All]

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-22-07 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #108
188. How would I expect someone to take it? For starters, like a rational adult.
"When someone asks you why you don't have children, do you not automaticly feel the need to defend your position?"

Heh -- not in the least. I usually just laugh. I certainly don't feel threatened or defensive.

"Saying that it is HARMFUL to this planet for people to have a child is a broad generic condemnation of those who not only have already made that decision, but an attempt to discourage others from the same 'mistake'."

Here you need to separate statements of fact from your own perceived judgment. If someone says that driving is harmful to the planet, do you feel condemned for all the cars you've owned in your life? Or are you able to evaluate that statement and discuss it independently of your own actions?

One that strikes a bit closer to home for me is the statement of fact about buying pets at pet stores. I was told how harmful this is only after I had purchased my conure, whom I love as much as I can imagine loving a child. I felt no need to defend my previous choices, I just took the opportunity to discuss the issue that had been raised.

"your reply to me only reinforces my feeling that there is indeed a "veiled accusation" implying those who have children are harming the planet and less concerned about the earth."

I certainly would never say that, anymore than I would say that people who buy pets in pet stores don't care about cruelty to animals. My point is that this issue should not be taboo, and people who bring it up for discussion should not be attacked in the way that the OP has been.

I won't even get into your orange tree analogy, other than to say I really hope you aren't juicing your kids. :P

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  -Wouldn't having a child be the worst thing a person can do for the environment? RGBolen  Jul-21-07 12:24 AM   #0 
  - What if that child is raised to fight for the environment  wtmusic   Jul-21-07 12:26 AM   #1 
  - Yes, there are too many people.  Lasher   Jul-21-07 12:26 AM   #2 
  - Too many people, quite probably. What would you do resolve that problem?  HypnoToad   Jul-21-07 09:08 AM   #36 
  - I don't know if the problem can be resolved  Lasher   Jul-21-07 10:44 AM   #55 
  - I think some Presidential leadership would help  aint_no_life_nowhere   Jul-21-07 12:33 PM   #92 
     - There are some things we could do if we think about it.  Lasher   Jul-21-07 02:11 PM   #119 
  - Making the public practice of religion something to be ridiculed  greyhound1966   Jul-21-07 01:56 PM   #116 
     - Yes, if it weren't for religion nobody would fuck each other.  spoony   Jul-21-07 04:26 PM   # 
        - Not at all, there would likely be a lot more fucking, just without all the guilt  greyhound1966   Jul-21-07 10:14 PM   #182 
  - It is the biggest problem  Yupster   Jul-21-07 03:47 PM   #147 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-07 12:27 AM   #3 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jul-21-07 12:51 AM   #14 
  - I think you're going to get some serious debate on this one.....  pepperbear   Jul-21-07 12:27 AM   #4 
  - If it's your child, the environment doesn't matter. Your child could  babylonsister   Jul-21-07 12:29 AM   #5 
  - Nope...  Contrary1   Jul-21-07 12:29 AM   #6 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jul-21-07 01:42 AM   #16 
  - With that logic, why not have 15 kids....  theHandpuppet   Jul-21-07 02:33 PM   #127 
  - Depends on who the child grows up to be.  Jed Dilligan   Jul-21-07 12:30 AM   #7 
  - No way.  emilyg   Jul-21-07 12:32 AM   #8 
  - For Barbara Bush maybe nt  wtmusic   Jul-21-07 12:36 AM   #9 
  - that's why I choose to be childless in the 70s n/t  AZDemDist6   Jul-21-07 12:38 AM   #10 
  - Unless you want a world made up entirely of old people, no  Lydia Leftcoast   Jul-21-07 12:39 AM   #11 
  - We are not replacing anyone, sorry  RGBolen   Jul-21-07 12:40 AM   #12 
     - I'm not either, but I don't condemn people who have one or two children  Lydia Leftcoast   Jul-21-07 08:15 AM   #28 
  - The 'environment' will survive - it's people that won't.  TahitiNut   Jul-21-07 12:50 AM   #13 
  - I keep thinking of the lesson of Easter Island  Lasher   Jul-21-07 10:56 AM   #61 
  - Have you read the book "Collapse?"  Yupster   Jul-21-07 03:50 PM   #149 
     - No, I'll have to check it out.  Lasher   Jul-22-07 03:20 AM   #197 
  - Good post. I fear that justice. There is no question that our species has wasted, a sin which Earth  glitch   Jul-21-07 11:39 AM   #73 
  - Yeah, the long-term survival of humanity. Which requires, among other things, what?  impeachdubya   Jul-22-07 01:15 AM   #192 
  - Yeah, that's what this planet needs -- More people.  RC   Jul-21-07 01:09 AM   #15 
  - Uh. No.  votesomemore   Jul-21-07 01:43 AM   #17 
  - Oh, for fuck's sake.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 01:50 AM   #18 
  - You noticed that, too, huh? n/t  kgfnally   Jul-21-07 02:02 AM   #20 
  - .  TheFriendlyAnarchist   Jul-21-07 03:08 PM   #142 
  - People can scoff but very few can raise a cogent argument against this  jgraz   Jul-21-07 02:00 AM   #19 
  - Yeah, I'll raise a cogent argument. RUN YOUR OWN GOD DAMN LIFE....  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 02:22 AM   #22 
  - hmm...sounds like somebody isn't all that happy with the life choices they've made  jgraz   Jul-21-07 03:05 AM   #23 
  - I thought it was funny as hell and I LOVE my life choices.  Clark2008   Jul-21-07 10:45 AM   #56 
  - Yep, those kids are damn cute  jgraz   Jul-21-07 10:54 AM   #60 
  - simple explanation  Bluerthanblue   Jul-21-07 12:27 PM   #88 
  - Maybe...  jgraz   Jul-21-07 01:00 PM   #101 
     - How else would you  Bluerthanblue   Jul-21-07 01:38 PM   #108 
        - How would I expect someone to take it? For starters, like a rational adult.  jgraz   Jul-22-07 12:19 AM   #188 
  - Touche  theHandpuppet   Jul-21-07 02:17 PM   #124 
     - Uh, you say "touche" when someone you disagree with makes a point that convinces you.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 02:45 PM   #134 
  - As are mine.  Midlodemocrat   Jul-21-07 12:35 PM   #95 
  - Yeah, Until They Get to be Teenagers.  Megahurtz   Jul-21-07 01:36 PM   #106 
  - Yeah, it was funny. If you find ignorant tirades funny, I guess.  Harper_is_Bush   Jul-21-07 04:33 PM   #164 
  - I didn't get that impression at all.  Blue in Portland   Jul-21-07 12:28 PM   #90 
  - Yeah, that's exactly it.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 02:42 PM   #132 
  - Projecting...heh. The adult version of the I'm Rubber/You're Glue argument  jgraz   Jul-21-07 10:04 PM   #179 
     - Why the bile? Hmmmmm, let's see. First off, in the past 10 days, these are some of the adjectives  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 11:00 PM   #185 
        - ok, maybe staying in the here and now is something you could work on  jgraz   Jul-22-07 12:04 AM   #187 
           - Sigh.  impeachdubya   Jul-22-07 01:06 AM   #191 
              - Then your argument is with the OP *on that other thread*  jgraz   Jul-22-07 01:27 AM   #193 
                 - Pfffffft.  impeachdubya   Jul-22-07 01:44 AM   #195 
  - Including your own? (nt)  The Straight Story   Jul-22-07 03:26 PM   #201 
     - haha -- I certainly have a few I'd like to get back  jgraz   Jul-22-07 03:58 PM   #204 
  - I would shoot off FIREWORKS for your post if I could! Fuckin' great!  Veganistan   Jul-21-07 03:50 AM   #24 
  - Interesting response given your name and avatar  jgraz   Jul-21-07 10:44 AM   #54 
     - Only if you'll give me back the taxes for the roads I don't  Clark2008   Jul-21-07 10:48 AM   #58 
     - Exactly my point  jgraz   Jul-21-07 10:51 AM   #59 
     - Normally, I wouldn't jump in here  chefgirl   Jul-21-07 01:55 PM   #115 
     - Is the instinct to reproduce a separate desire from sex ?  wuushew   Jul-21-07 02:13 PM   #121 
     - You've made my point, thanks  chefgirl   Jul-21-07 02:24 PM   #126 
        - Why not? Simply because of scale?  wuushew   Jul-21-07 02:40 PM   #131 
           - I'm well aware of the Easter Island story  chefgirl   Jul-21-07 02:49 PM   #136 
           - But isn't there some limit  Yupster   Jul-21-07 03:59 PM   #155 
           - Great book  Yupster   Jul-21-07 04:00 PM   #156 
           - The universe is likely infinite.  girl gone mad   Jul-21-07 04:26 PM   #160 
              - Another planet? OK, now this conversation has definitely gone round the bend  jgraz   Jul-21-07 10:11 PM   #180 
              - The Easter Island argument is  Yupster   Jul-22-07 12:45 PM   #198 
     - "I don't believe population, per se, or reproductive choices are truly the problem"  jgraz   Jul-21-07 10:00 PM   #177 
        - Oohh, don't I feel told??  chefgirl   Jul-22-07 03:05 PM   #200 
           - I'm gonna guess "no"  jgraz   Jul-22-07 04:03 PM   #205 
     - Don't gripe to us about it. Complain to your parents.  Telly Savalas   Jul-21-07 03:56 PM   #154 
     - It's stupid because schools make or break a community  AngryOldDem   Jul-21-07 03:55 PM   #152 
     - Who the fuck paid for your education?  Telly Savalas   Jul-21-07 03:55 PM   #153 
        - Missing the point  jgraz   Jul-21-07 10:02 PM   #178 
           - You'll wait?  Telly Savalas   Jul-21-07 11:08 PM   #186 
              - Yes, I'm being a prick. Me, that's who's the prick  jgraz   Jul-22-07 12:22 AM   #189 
  - >  Bunny   Jul-21-07 05:30 AM   #26 
  - Not. n/t  Megahurtz   Jul-21-07 01:40 PM   #110 
  - Overpopulation occurred in the US, Europe and Japan a long time ago  muriel_volestrangler   Jul-21-07 05:47 AM   #27 
  - The point is, the regions that have the population problems need contraception, education  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 03:07 PM   #141 
     - But you're assuming that because the American population only grows slowly  muriel_volestrangler   Jul-21-07 07:08 PM   #173 
        - You mean, while people are busy lecturing, they're not using resources?  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 08:04 PM   #174 
  - Thank you, thank you, thank you!  blondeatlast   Jul-21-07 08:56 AM   #32 
  - Your spot on!  Geek_Girl   Jul-21-07 09:12 AM   #38 
  - Thank you.  Blue_In_AK   Jul-21-07 10:14 AM   #47 
  - I always find it amusing  JulieRB   Jul-21-07 11:08 AM   #63 
  - Yep.  TahitiNut   Jul-21-07 11:17 AM   #64 
  - Yep. You nailed it.  jgraz   Jul-21-07 11:25 AM   #66 
  - Yep. Those Self-Centered People  Megahurtz   Jul-21-07 01:48 PM   #112 
  - Yes, being a parent is an incredibly selfish act.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 04:54 PM   #169 
  - No, not everyone who doesn't have kids is a self-righteous ass.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 02:43 PM   #133 
     - Oh. Gosh, I feel so much better now.  JulieRB   Jul-21-07 03:23 PM   #144 
        - No, you don't understand what I meant.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 04:16 PM   #157 
           - Nice personal attack!  JulieRB   Jul-21-07 08:20 PM   #176 
              - Cool.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 10:18 PM   #183 
  - Well said.  TheWraith   Jul-21-07 11:25 AM   #65 
  - I have no confidence that our country will be able to feed itself in 70 years  TheBorealAvenger   Jul-21-07 11:46 AM   #75 
  - "Here's a clove cigarette..."  Vektor   Jul-21-07 12:01 PM   #78 
  - lol -- bigotry is a hoot  jgraz   Jul-21-07 12:06 PM   #80 
     - I see bigotry and preconceived notions coming from ALL angles  Vektor   Jul-21-07 12:18 PM   #84 
     - Wow, talk about a false equivalency  jgraz   Jul-21-07 12:25 PM   #87 
        - You see it how you want to, and knock yourself out...  Vektor   Jul-21-07 12:33 PM   #91 
     - If you had any idea whatsoever about "my situation", you'd know what a joke that is.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 02:54 PM   #137 
        - Still waiting for rational debate instead of ranting and mindless chest-thumping  jgraz   Jul-22-07 01:52 AM   #196 
  - What???  Megahurtz   Jul-21-07 01:34 PM   #105 
  - The overpopulation is due to immigration, not birth rates.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 03:03 PM   #138 
  - That is true  wuushew   Jul-21-07 03:07 PM   #140 
  - Bangladesh has a population density of 2850/sq. mi. The US has 84.  cherokeeprogressive   Jul-21-07 05:27 PM   #172 
  - There's nothing wrong with making the point. Your rude reaction to it is the only  Harper_is_Bush   Jul-21-07 04:30 PM   #162 
  - Al Gore Still Might Run.  impeachdubya   Jul-21-07 04:35 PM   #165 
  - I just love your post here!  DemExpat   Jul-21-07 04:39 PM   #167 
  - Halle-freakin-lujah!  IA_Seth   Jul-22-07 03:31 PM   #203 
  - Yes, actually it does count.  skids   Jul-21-07 10:17 AM   #48 
  - OK  jgraz   Jul-21-07 10:30 AM   #50 
     - Completely unconvincing.  skids   Jul-21-07 11:43 AM   #74 
     - The reproductive arms race is kind of a scary argument  jgraz   Jul-21-07 11:52 AM   #77 
        - Fantasy land...  skids   Jul-21-07 03:53 PM   #150 
     - Well woudn't that be a good thing...  girl gone mad   Jul-21-07 03:50 PM   #148 
  - LOL. What crap. How about the argument that  Midlodemocrat   Jul-21-07 12:34 PM   #94 
  - Wouldn't suicide be the best thing a person can do for the environment?  Der Blaue Engel   Jul-21-07 02:17 AM   #21 
  - sorry, i didn't  Bluerthanblue   Jul-21-07 09:36 AM   #43 
  - That was dumb  TheBorealAvenger   Jul-21-07 11:47 AM   #76 
  - If you're dumb and you know it, clap your hands  Der Blaue Engel   Jul-21-07 03:06 PM   #139 
  - They are not mutually exclusive  wuushew   Jul-21-07 12:51 PM   #99 
  - well, this takes it even  Bluerthanblue   Jul-21-07 01:06 PM   #102 
     - what don't you understand about suicide?  wuushew   Jul-21-07 01:27 PM   #103 
        - - sorry-  Bluerthanblue   Jul-21-07 01:41 PM   #111 
  - Not only that, but Bush is the numero uno environmentalist  spoony   Jul-21-07 04:29 PM   #161 
  - It would be better for planet earth if there were no humans here at all.  cassiepriam   Jul-21-07 05:19 AM   #25 
  - To borrow the vegan argument...  cobalt1999   Jul-21-07 08:27 AM   #29 
  - Yes, the world would be better off if there weren't any people  gollygee   Jul-21-07 08:30 AM   #30 
  - No.  LWolf   Jul-21-07 08:31 AM   #31 
  - To quote Jerry Seinfeld;  zanne   Jul-21-07 08:58 AM   #33 
  - Are you thinking your parents made a mistake when they had you?  Telly Savalas   Jul-21-07 08:58 AM   #34 
  - The theory (and what Catholic clergymen say on TV) is, we need our next generation of scientists...  HypnoToad   Jul-21-07 09:00 AM   #35 
  - Yeah, I think I know why Catholic clergymen want us all to have kids.  Lex   Jul-21-07 09:08 AM   #37 
     - I was referring to a guy on the Catholic channel - I e-mailed him on his broadcast...  HypnoToad   Jul-21-07 09:13 AM   #39 
  - By the same logic, death would be the best.  rucky   Jul-21-07 09:14 AM   #40 
  - No that would be completely different logic  jgraz   Jul-21-07 12:04 PM   #79 
     - The same fallacy of the OP's premise.  rucky   Jul-21-07 01:50 PM   #113 
  - That's a BIT rhetorical, RGB!  baby_mouse   Jul-21-07 09:25 AM   #41 
  - why don't we promote suicide as being good for the environment?  Bluerthanblue   Jul-21-07 09:34 AM   #42 
  - It's the consumptive habits of the child and family  ikojo   Jul-21-07 09:49 AM   #44 
  - Thank you.  MrsMatt   Jul-21-07 10:48 AM   #57 
  - true, but unless we effect radical change in our way of life...  jgraz   Jul-21-07 12:11 PM   #82 
     - An this is an interesting problem  Yupster   Jul-21-07 04:17 PM   #158 
        - I gotta read that book  jgraz   Jul-22-07 01:01 AM   #190 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-07 09:55 AM   #45 
  - Only if you consider a depopulated world a proper environment.  rug   Jul-21-07 10:03 AM   #46 
  - I Support Reproductive Freedom  javadu   Jul-21-07 10:26 AM   #49 
  - I do too, I was just asking how high it ranks on the list  RGBolen   Jul-21-07 10:35 AM   #51 
  - Actually, having 3,4,5,6, or more children would be even worse for the environment  kenny blankenship   Jul-21-07 10:35 AM   #52 
  - Can we just agree that mothers should cooperate with flight attendants and not knock all children?  Nikki Stone1   Jul-21-07 10:38 AM   #53 
  - it is what the environment will do the child .  donsu   Jul-21-07 11:08 AM   #62 
  - The worst thing?  lwfern   Jul-21-07 11:30 AM   #67 
  - People with children should be ashamed of themselves...  SayWhatYo   Jul-21-07 11:33 AM   #68 
  - lol  Rhoads   Jul-21-07 11:35 AM   #70 
  - I have 3 children. I am sorry.  Rhoads   Jul-21-07 11:33 AM   #69 
  - That's ok -- I drive two hummers at once and eat roast dolphin for breakfast  jgraz   Jul-21-07 11:35 AM   #71 
     - actually,  Rhoads   Jul-21-07 11:38 AM   #72 
     - I eat Hummers for breakfast and ride two dolphins at once.  Vektor   Jul-21-07 12:09 PM   #81 
        - Just as long as you don't tell me how to live my life!!  jgraz   Jul-21-07 12:13 PM   #83 
           - Mine runs on bat guano.  Vektor   Jul-21-07 12:20 PM   #85 
              - I call bullshit on that one  jgraz   Jul-21-07 12:28 PM   #89 
                 - Ok, call all you want.  Vektor   Jul-21-07 12:35 PM   #96 
  - depends what that child does  ryanus   Jul-21-07 12:22 PM   #86 
  - What if Gandhi's mother had said that?  proud2Blib   Jul-21-07 12:34 PM   #93 
  - As long as Barbara Bush said it too  jgraz   Jul-21-07 12:54 PM   #100 
  - IMO - yes - tis why I never had any - one reason anyway (n/t)  Triana   Jul-21-07 12:38 PM   #97 
  - Starting a war is pretty bad.  Bosso 63   Jul-21-07 12:40 PM   #98 
  - Not if that child will grow up to invent a solution to it. - n/t  porphyrian   Jul-21-07 01:30 PM   #104 
  - If I were still young enough I would not bring a child into this world  blues90   Jul-21-07 01:37 PM   #107 
  - Chalk This Up As One Of The Most Idiotic Flame Baiting Premises I've Ever Seen Here.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jul-21-07 01:39 PM   #109 
  - Oh Come On.  Megahurtz   Jul-21-07 01:54 PM   #114 
     - No, I Posted My Real Thoughts.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jul-21-07 02:01 PM   #117 
     - Never stopped him before.  greyhound1966   Jul-21-07 02:02 PM   #118 
        - Oh Grow Up With Your Empty Personal Moronic Attacks Already.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jul-21-07 02:36 PM   #128 
           - If they did that, they'd have to stop posting.  spoony   Jul-21-07 04:32 PM   #163 
           - Oh No, I've Brought The Wrath And Pity Of The Omnipotent OCM Down On My Poor Self  greyhound1966   Jul-21-07 10:19 PM   #184 
  - If there were no more children  Madspirit   Jul-21-07 02:12 PM   #120 
  - We could always transfer our minds to android bodies  wuushew   Jul-21-07 02:23 PM   #125 
     - I like that idea!...n/t  Madspirit   Jul-21-07 03:53 PM   #151 
  - I think it's true that people in general are harmful to the Earth.  Lex   Jul-21-07 02:15 PM   #122 
  - Probably starting a war - ordering DU to be strewn around  salin   Jul-21-07 02:16 PM   #123 
  - I don't know, but Alice the Cook says,  sl8   Jul-21-07 02:37 PM   #129 
  - You're right...nobody should have kids...nt  SidDithers   Jul-21-07 02:39 PM   #130 
  - It would be nice if on this topic, as on many, we could have a discussion of a third way  nam78_two   Jul-21-07 02:48 PM   #135 
  - If...  Kazak   Jul-21-07 03:11 PM   #143 
  - Yes  Yupster   Jul-21-07 04:23 PM   #159 
     - As is ours.  Kazak   Jul-21-07 05:04 PM   #170 
  - Easy one. No.  gulliver   Jul-21-07 03:41 PM   #145 
  - Not as long as he is a sterile vegan who cleans up after himself.  undeterred   Jul-21-07 03:46 PM   #146 
  - I don't drink with you.  theNotoriousP.I.G.   Jul-21-07 04:36 PM   #166 
  - Apparently not--I alerted on this mess early this morning! nt  blondeatlast   Jul-21-07 10:13 PM   #181 
  - And by extension, suicide is the best thing to do.  SmokingJacket   Jul-21-07 04:40 PM   #168 
  - Depends on which child it is  treestar   Jul-21-07 05:05 PM   #171 
  - Perhaps we should reconsider the desire to end the war in Iraq?  JVS   Jul-21-07 08:18 PM   #175 
  - Yes, because deciding to not have children is exactly the same as killing someone  jgraz   Jul-22-07 01:31 AM   #194 
     - I knew that desire to not have any children was part of a killer instinct..........  nolabels   Jul-22-07 01:18 PM   #199 
  - Too bad ya can't go back in time and tell your parents before they screwed up the environment  The Straight Story   Jul-22-07 03:29 PM   #202 
     - Dude, if I could go back in time, I'd be paying a visit to Kennebunkport  jgraz   Jul-22-07 04:08 PM   #206 

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