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Reply #154: So let me be sure I've got it all straight: [View All]

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-22-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #122
154. So let me be sure I've got it all straight:

should be considered by law to be the equivalent of this:

but this:

and particularly this:

do not get "rights".


And let's be absolutely fucking clear on this... as far as you're concerned, anyone who does NOT accept your axiomatic decree that THIS:


has, as you put it, an "absolute lack of respect for other humans".


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  -The men on c-span talking about abortion should STFU. rubberducky  Jun-21-07 05:34 PM   #0 
  - If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.  Kerrytravelers   Jun-21-07 05:35 PM   #1 
  - My sig line!  rubberducky   Jun-21-07 05:41 PM   #5 
  - I love Gloria!  Kerrytravelers   Jun-21-07 05:44 PM   #7 
  - Also, if men had babies  MotorCityMan   Jun-21-07 06:09 PM   #14 
  - I always say  Patsy Stone   Jun-21-07 06:48 PM   #21 
     - Bwwwwaaaaahhhhh !!!!!!!! **snort**  Kerrytravelers   Jun-21-07 09:12 PM   #58 
  - K & R  Nikki Stone1   Jun-21-07 05:37 PM   #2 
  - Thank you!  rubberducky   Jun-21-07 05:41 PM   #4 
     - No problem. I'm always good for a recommend when the cause is right.  Nikki Stone1   Jun-21-07 05:49 PM   #10 
  - I was listening to that. It's surreal how many religious fanatics  go west young man   Jun-21-07 05:39 PM   #3 
  - Thank you!  rubberducky   Jun-21-07 05:43 PM   # 
  - I agree with most that you say... but being pregnant is not giving up  glowing   Jun-21-07 05:43 PM   #6 
  - Oh! how I agree with you!  rubberducky   Jun-21-07 05:47 PM   #9 
     - Kicking your thread  Clark2008   Jun-22-07 04:05 PM   #133 
  - Yes ducky, I agree . I feel practically vomitous, when I see male politicos  durrrty libby   Jun-21-07 05:46 PM   #8 
  - I just strongly feel that they have NO right to decide what I do with my body.  rubberducky   Jun-21-07 05:50 PM   #11 
  - My mom always said  ayeshahaqqiqa   Jun-21-07 05:51 PM   #12 
  - Love to your mom!!  rubberducky   Jun-21-07 05:53 PM   #13 
  - your mom was wise.  FLDem5   Jun-21-07 06:15 PM   #16 
     - Thank you  ayeshahaqqiqa   Jun-21-07 07:46 PM   #24 
  - I made my choices  junofeb   Jun-21-07 06:12 PM   #15 
  - That's a superb argument I don't believe I've ever heard before  Morgana LaFey   Jun-21-07 08:25 PM   #38 
  - This was not meant as a men bashing thread.  rubberducky   Jun-21-07 06:19 PM   #17 
  - Oh Come On Now.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jun-21-07 08:30 PM   #42 
  - The majority of men who sue for custody get it. That's national, some localities differ.  LeftyMom   Jun-21-07 08:52 PM   #51 
  - That's Not Even Close To Being True.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jun-21-07 08:53 PM   #53 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jun-21-07 09:10 PM   #56 
  - Here is an article from St. John's Law review that refutes your statement.  GumboYaYa   Jun-22-07 04:27 PM   #134 
  - Great point.  MJDuncan1982   Jun-22-07 09:08 PM   #151 
  - My ex punished me for having a child he didn't want.  Perragrande   Jun-23-07 05:00 PM   #202 
  - Sexist...?  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 09:15 PM   #59 
  - He owes me an irony meter. Thank goodness he didn't call them homophobic too, or I'd be in a crater.  LeftyMom   Jun-21-07 09:20 PM   #62 
  - OMG....!  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 09:25 PM   #65 
  - In Matters Of Custody? Absolutely. That's A No Brainer.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jun-21-07 09:34 PM   #67 
     - No-brainer...?  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 09:44 PM   #71 
        - Instead Of Wasting Your Time Replying With Nonsense Attack, Maybe You Should Spend It Browsing The  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jun-21-07 10:00 PM   #77 
           - Ooooh....the big strong man is telling me how to spend my time...!  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 10:14 PM   #83 
           - Maybe he can also explain why women are still being paid LESS  kevinbgoode   Jun-22-07 03:28 AM   #109 
           - Look at you...  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 10:19 PM   #84 
  - Well, thank goodness that the MEN have always so historically  kevinbgoode   Jun-22-07 03:21 AM   #108 
     - And of course...  MJDuncan1982   Jun-22-07 09:14 PM   #152 
  - But it's turned into a male-bashing thread...  qdemn7   Jun-21-07 09:43 PM   #69 
     - Perhaps...  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 09:58 PM   #75 
        - Women defending their rights  OzarkDem   Jun-21-07 10:36 PM   #90 
           - Well said...!  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 12:50 AM   #98 
  - It's like a woman talking about the draft. It lacks something....nt  MookieWilson   Jun-21-07 06:41 PM   #18 
  - Considering that women are in combat and are included in the 2003 draft legislation  Nikki Stone1   Jun-21-07 06:43 PM   #19 
     - You go Nikki Stone1 !!  rubberducky   Jun-21-07 06:45 PM   #20 
     - Women have never been drafted and don't have to register. nt  MookieWilson   Jun-21-07 07:31 PM   #22 
        - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jun-21-07 07:35 PM   #23 
        - Neither do older men  kevinbgoode   Jun-22-07 03:43 AM   #111 
  - And infertile women... they should STFU too!  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 07:49 PM   #25 
  - Those men, like anyone else, need to STFU when it comes to someone  JerseygirlCT   Jun-21-07 07:55 PM   #26 
  - Talking is talking...  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 08:00 PM   #29 
  - Until the boys decide that they ought to do more than talk - they  JerseygirlCT   Jun-21-07 08:02 PM   #30 
     - So, do you also believe that...  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 08:09 PM   #32 
        - I know for a fact that infertility isn't always forever  JerseygirlCT   Jun-21-07 08:23 PM   #36 
        - Who's arguing for the right of men to actually impose a lack of choice on women?  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 08:28 PM   #40 
        - And I suppose the morans on CSpan were simply sharing their  JerseygirlCT   Jun-21-07 08:30 PM   #41 
        - What possible meaning does "freedom of speech" have...  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 08:34 PM   #44 
           - They're allowed to say it: we don't have to like it or support what they say  JerseygirlCT   Jun-21-07 08:40 PM   #46 
              - Sounds like we're in agreement then.  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 08:52 PM   #50 
        - It is fascinating that the members of the very minority which denied  kevinbgoode   Jun-22-07 04:03 AM   #112 
           - I don't understand a world...  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 04:18 AM   #115 
           - What exactly are you saying?  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-22-07 08:02 AM   #118 
        - This reminds me...  badgerpup   Jun-21-07 08:53 PM   #52 
           - Or more importantly, the way Padres give marital and sex advice.  originalpckelly   Jun-21-07 09:41 PM   #68 
              - Azackly!  badgerpup   Jun-21-07 10:39 PM   #91 
        - Not if it doesn't concern their own body, no  OzarkDem   Jun-21-07 10:46 PM   #93 
  - I think we live in a society in which men believe it is their inherent  kevinbgoode   Jun-22-07 03:41 AM   #110 
     - Wonder what they would have said...  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 04:10 AM   #113 
  - Sorry man, Not interested in your "interesting views"  durrrty libby   Jun-21-07 07:59 PM   #28 
  - It's a (relatively) free country (for who knows how much longer)...  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 08:06 PM   #31 
     - woop dee dooda  durrrty libby   Jun-21-07 08:12 PM   #33 
  - Abortion is a female specific human right. As a male I support that right.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jun-21-07 08:13 PM   #34 
  - Thank you, exactly. nt  JerseygirlCT   Jun-21-07 08:24 PM   #37 
  - I don't men have any right to tell women what to do with their bodies either...  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 08:26 PM   #39 
     - But here's the problem  Morgana LaFey   Jun-21-07 08:41 PM   #48 
        - Not inconsistent -- the attack on RTLers is question-begging  Jim Lane   Jun-22-07 02:39 AM   #106 
           - Oh, blah and blather  Morgana LaFey   Jun-22-07 02:58 PM   #128 
  - This Is A Very Good Post. I Totally Agree And Think You Did A Great Job Making Rational Points.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jun-21-07 08:33 PM   #43 
  - Gee...  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 08:35 PM   #45 
  - Not at all.  ismnotwasm   Jun-21-07 09:51 PM   #74 
  - I'm not saying it isn't a private decision between a woman...  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-21-07 09:58 PM   #76 
     - I see.  ismnotwasm   Jun-21-07 10:08 PM   #80 
        - I'll let the politicians...  Kerry4Kerry   Jun-22-07 07:50 AM   #117 
  - Expressing a view is one thing  OzarkDem   Jun-21-07 10:42 PM   #92 
  - Well, it's an extremely easy position to take -- you get to sound  JerseygirlCT   Jun-21-07 07:56 PM   #27 
  - They get all Ramboish and abusive if we don't think their opinion is important.  durrrty libby   Jun-21-07 08:17 PM   #35 
  - "all holy and sanctimonious, while it's never something you'd actually have to face yourself"  originalpckelly   Jun-21-07 09:47 PM   #73 
     - The *woman* is still the one facing possible death and/or maiming.  Lars39   Jun-21-07 10:08 PM   #81 
     - The guy's involvement in the decision is only at the woman's  JerseygirlCT   Jun-22-07 01:31 PM   #119 
        - It really isn't her or his decision. They both are talking about killing someone in existence.  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 02:12 PM   #122 
           - There is no "child" yet. There is an embryo, or perhaps a fetus.  JerseygirlCT   Jun-22-07 02:19 PM   #123 
           - Potential life?  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 02:33 PM   #124 
              - Yes, potential. Not something capable of living without  JerseygirlCT   Jun-22-07 02:53 PM   #126 
              - It's called "responsibility". You know that fetus didn't decide to create itself.  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 02:58 PM   #127 
                 - The woman is responsible for her own life.  Lars39   Jun-22-07 04:01 PM   #131 
                 - "The woman is responsible for her own life."  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 04:46 PM   #136 
                    - Women should not lose rights over their own body because they are pregnant.  Lars39   Jun-22-07 05:52 PM   #147 
                       - Have you ever compared the number of deaths per 100,000 for pregnancy complications...  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 11:25 PM   #157 
                          - So you think it's okay for women to get first trimester abortions - which, as I'm sure someone as  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 11:43 PM   #164 
                          - If Sally down the street wants to have an abortion because  Lars39   Jun-22-07 11:46 PM   # 
                             - No one has the right to force her to go through with her pregnancy.  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 11:50 PM   #169 
                                - Nope.  Lars39   Jun-22-07 11:55 PM   #173 
                 - And once again, it boils down to clenched fist, puritannical rage that women are "getting away with"  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 08:58 PM   #150 
                    - Oh yeah, yeah, I'm just against sex. It has nothing to do with not wanting our society...  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 11:37 PM   #162 
                       - If you think that a fertilized egg is a human being from the second of conception onward,  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 11:39 PM   #163 
                       - Conception includes IMPLANTATION.  Lars39   Jun-22-07 11:49 PM   #168 
                       - Oh that poor dear, that rabid embryo came out of nowhere crawled up into her...  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 11:53 PM   #172 
                          - Yeah. What "she did to cause it". You're not hung up on the sex & morality aspect, no.  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 11:57 PM   #174 
                          - You need to look up thread and see how this started for context.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:08 AM   #182 
                             - Oh, I know EXACTLY how this thread started.  impeachdubya   Jun-23-07 05:44 AM   #195 
                          - She fucked. Get over it.  Lars39   Jun-22-07 11:57 PM   #175 
                             - .  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 11:59 PM   #176 
                             - Yes, true, but she doesn't have the right to take another person out of existence.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:06 AM   #180 
                                - What person?  Lars39   Jun-23-07 12:08 AM   #183 
                                   - Oh I'm so sorry, I really, really am so profoundly sorry.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:10 AM   #184 
                                      - What's the matter? Tired?  Lars39   Jun-23-07 12:12 AM   #187 
                                         - Oh no, I'm just trying to stay within the words your highest of highness approved for me to use.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:14 AM   #189 
                                            - I can say my cat is a person.  impeachdubya   Jun-23-07 05:47 AM   #196 
                                            - Your cat is a member of different species.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 09:00 AM   #198 
                                            - And if states really wanted to be humane they would pass laws against murdering your sperm.  impeachdubya   Jun-23-07 03:56 PM   #201 
                       - One of these days I'd like to get an answer about the birth control pill, IUDs, and IVF clinics.  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 11:52 PM   #171 
              - And you feel the same way about your Sperm, I assume.  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 08:51 PM   #149 
           - So let me be sure I've got it all straight:  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 10:33 PM   #154 
              - Without this:  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 11:28 PM   #158 
                 - And that and four bucks will buy you a coffee at starbucks. What's your point?  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 11:37 PM   #160 
                    - These only have the DNA of the people who produced them:  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 11:45 PM   #165 
                       - 23 + 23 = 46. No DNA is magically manifested in the process of conception.  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 11:49 PM   #167 
                          - You need to go pull out your little biology book. No one's DNA is an exact match for their parents.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:03 AM   #178 
                             - Uh Huh. Genes recombine, but there's nothing there that isn't there to begin with.  impeachdubya   Jun-23-07 05:43 AM   #194 
                                - So, theoretically, if you're right and it's all a + b = a + b...  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 08:59 AM   #197 
                                   - Huh? No, 23 chromosomes come from the mother, 23 come from the father.  impeachdubya   Jun-23-07 03:53 PM   #200 
  - The problem is anyone who wants to make decisions about what OTHER people should be allowed to do  impeachdubya   Jun-21-07 08:40 PM   #47 
  - Maybe not on whether they should get one, but they can have plenty of input on how  The Straight Story   Jun-21-07 08:48 PM   #49 
  - I agree..  RedCappedBandit   Jun-21-07 08:56 PM   #54 
  - For pro-choice men: Why we get frustrated  gollygee   Jun-21-07 08:58 PM   #55 
  - Would you rather have a bunch of women deny you the choice?  mondo joe   Jun-21-07 09:18 PM   #60 
  - No, of course not  gollygee   Jun-21-07 09:23 PM   #63 
     - I'll add this. I flew 3,000 miles to be at the big pro-choice march in DC in April of '04  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 04:05 PM   #132 
  - Been a while since I've seen that pic. Still makes me think very mean  Lars39   Jun-21-07 09:18 PM   #61 
     - Whenever I think about this issue, I think of that photo  gollygee   Jun-21-07 09:29 PM   #66 
        - We really should have it copied  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 10:35 PM   #88 
  - Say it loud--I stand with you, sister...!  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 09:11 PM   #57 
  - Men have the choice to not ejaculate  ismnotwasm   Jun-21-07 09:24 PM   #64 
  - Yeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss!  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 10:23 PM   #85 
  - And what about the women who oppose abortion?  originalpckelly   Jun-21-07 09:44 PM   #70 
  - They weren't spouting off on cspan...  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 10:26 PM   #86 
  - As long as so much as a penny of my taxes finances abortion...  Rage for Order   Jun-21-07 09:47 PM   #72 
  - Do you have an opinion on tricare's reimbusement policy for appendectomy too?  LeftyMom   Jun-21-07 10:11 PM   #82 
  - Yes I do  Rage for Order   Jun-21-07 10:36 PM   #89 
     - I don't need your permission  LeftyMom   Jun-21-07 11:24 PM   #97 
  - There ARE private clinics...  bliss_eternal   Jun-21-07 10:28 PM   #87 
  - The government has no right to act on my body.  sfexpat2000   Jun-21-07 10:52 PM   #95 
     - Indeed, but what gives you the right to act on someone else's body?  originalpckelly   Jun-21-07 11:20 PM   #96 
        - Please, try not to be coy.  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 12:56 AM   #100 
           - You shouldn't have to even explain that - they know what you mean.  kevinbgoode   Jun-22-07 04:18 AM   #114 
              - I know....  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 04:21 AM   #116 
  - Regarding the adoption issue.. the man in Texas who has fertilized  Ilsa   Jun-21-07 10:05 PM   #78 
  - Right -- and who would listen to these idiots?  defendandprotect   Jun-21-07 10:07 PM   #79 
  - "M#therf#cker, when was the last time you were pregnant?"  sfexpat2000   Jun-21-07 10:51 PM   #94 
  - Right on, Whoopi...!  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 01:00 AM   #101 
  - should not express an opinion about abortion.  NaturalHigh   Jun-22-07 12:56 AM   #99 
  - ...and so is the idea  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 01:21 AM   #102 
  - Gee, thank Bliss.  NaturalHigh   Jun-22-07 01:29 AM   #103 
     - What do I care, how you vote...?  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 02:04 AM   #104 
        - You would wonder why I was here if I voted pro-life?  NaturalHigh   Jun-22-07 02:11 AM   #105 
           - No.  bliss_eternal   Jun-22-07 03:00 AM   #107 
  - Men are free to express an opinion on whatever they like  JerseygirlCT   Jun-22-07 01:33 PM   #120 
  - If that's true...  NaturalHigh   Jun-22-07 04:43 PM   #135 
  - Pretty much.  spoony   Jun-22-07 05:20 PM   #142 
  - This isn't a sex issue. What the original poster said is true for men and women.  GumboYaYa   Jun-22-07 02:06 PM   #121 
  - In anything that doesn't harm anyone else, everyone should have complete freedom.  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 02:35 PM   #125 
     - Yup.  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 03:53 PM   #129 
  - It's extremely simple: My Body, My Business. Your Body, Your Business. Here's a simple test:  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 03:58 PM   #130 
  - This leaves open a ton of different situations where people traditionally would intervene:  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 04:50 PM   #137 
     - You missed the part about "seeing a body do something you morally object to"  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 05:06 PM   #138 
     - So if someone's trying to commit suicide, I shouldn't call 911?  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 05:07 PM   #139 
        - Snarf.  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 05:14 PM   #140 
           - Of course, you assume that someone else wouldn't be harmed by a person committing suicide..  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 05:17 PM   #141 
              - No, it's called continuing to throw out bullshit red herrings.  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 05:21 PM   #143 
                 - The problem is that there is a larger principle and reality you don't seem to grasp...  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 05:22 PM   #144 
                    - And what would that be, O swami of projection? nt  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 08:42 PM   #148 
     - Meh...trying to express public policy axiomatically no  MJDuncan1982   Jun-22-07 09:16 PM   #153 
        - Ok, how's this for an axiom:  impeachdubya   Jun-22-07 11:08 PM   #156 
  - Then don 't ask men to pay for it, through tax dollars or otherwise.  Dave From Canada   Jun-22-07 05:45 PM   #145 
  - I honestly don't think people can belong to people, whether it's the mother or the father.  originalpckelly   Jun-22-07 05:48 PM   #146 
  - None of it belongs to the male after it is given to the female  RGBolen   Jun-22-07 10:44 PM   #155 
     - Does that include child support if she keeps it? (nt)  The Straight Story   Jun-22-07 11:28 PM   #159 
        - The laws regarding privacy and children can seem to conflict but they really don't  RGBolen   Jun-22-07 11:37 PM   #161 
           - It is a choice both make at the outset  The Straight Story   Jun-22-07 11:46 PM   #166 
              - I didn't use the term owns  RGBolen   Jun-22-07 11:51 PM   #170 
                 - You said:  The Straight Story   Jun-23-07 12:02 AM   #177 
                 - I noticed I used the word belongs. Was using the same term to answer the post I was responding to  RGBolen   Jun-23-07 12:08 AM   #181 
                    - Advocating only this:  The Straight Story   Jun-23-07 12:20 AM   #193 
                 - Well, excuse me, but to fulfill that financial obligation the father must use his BODY...  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:04 AM   #179 
                    - I don't think you are going to find a great concern for people who don't work  RGBolen   Jun-23-07 12:10 AM   #185 
                       - Oh no, because in your perfect world no one has to work hard to pay child support.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:12 AM   #186 
                          - Most people work. If they have child support to pay or not.  RGBolen   Jun-23-07 12:13 AM   #188 
                             - Yes, but unless they make more than they use, they have to work harder.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:15 AM   #190 
                                - Then they should have done a better job of protecting themselves  RGBolen   Jun-23-07 12:18 AM   #191 
                                   - Hey, I'm just sayin'.  originalpckelly   Jun-23-07 12:19 AM   #192 
  - I can't believe this thread is still circulating. . .  kevinbgoode   Jun-23-07 09:49 AM   #199 

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