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Reply #93: Let's tell the thousands of future victims that maybe someday [View All]

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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-20-07 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #50
93. Let's tell the thousands of future victims that maybe someday
we'll get the Constitution recognized. And that we're sorry that they were sacrificial lambs to protect the "beliefs" of those who were taught to kill them because they merely existed. Then we'll tell them we're sorry that we couldn't protect THEIR beliefs as Americans because the "beliefs' of the perpetrators were always much more important.

The hate crime laws already exist. Perhaps your points would be more understandable if you expanded them to include examples of how they have been applied in the past to OTHER groups or why it is adamantly important to exclude US NOW but not repeal the existing law. Have you used any examples where the law has been effective or ineffective? Where it has chilled free speech? Or is it only a threat now that they want to add sexual orientation?

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  -Please consider helping pass the Hate Crimes legislation kevinbgoode  Jun-20-07 05:20 PM   #0 
  - Maybe we should think long and hard  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 05:23 PM   #1 
  - Well then it's a good thing we are NOT criminalizing thought.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 05:38 PM   #4 
  - Motivation? bs There  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 05:44 PM   #5 
  - We punish motivation all the time in other contexts  dsc   Jun-20-07 05:55 PM   #13 
  - Death penalty should go as well, Extra crime of  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 05:59 PM   #15 
  - Certainly these factors should  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:35 PM   #34 
     - How are the beliefs being criminalized?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:44 PM   #84 
  - many times have laws relating to conspiracies  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 06:14 PM   #22 
  - Who is this "they" of which you speak?  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:37 PM   #38 
     - THEY = judiciary. It is rather obvious in the sentence.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:11 PM   #75 
  - Why do you bring up conspiracies?  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 06:23 PM   #27 
     - No, the crime is the denial of civil rights.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:25 PM   #29 
        - Please explain to me an example of "denying civil rights" in the commission of a violent crime.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 06:44 PM   #46 
           - Take for instance  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:55 PM   #54 
              - Why wouldn't that be simple murder? And do you think gay bashing should be a federal crime?  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 08:55 PM   #89 
  - What if some one commits a crime because they  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 05:46 PM   #7 
  - Why don't we worry about fords and red hair when.......  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 06:17 PM   #23 
  - I'm with you on that one.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 06:33 PM   #33 
     - "we" ?? "they" ?? Maybe you need to reflect a bit.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:39 PM   #40 
     - I've reflected more than long enough  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 07:06 PM   #59 
        - I hope you are being sarcastic to  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 07:12 PM   #61 
           - "Straight panic"  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 07:33 PM   #69 
     - That bullshit argument is cut from the same cloth as the anti-gay marriage argument.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 06:42 PM   #43 
        - I don't follow your analogy.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:45 PM   #47 
        - Your red haired ford driver scenario serves to dilute what's REALLY happening to GLBT people....  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 08:40 PM   #83 
           - I noticed that too. . .  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:45 PM   #85 
              - "these people"  MNDemNY   Jun-21-07 08:27 AM   #171 
        - Really? How many women do you know who move freely  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 07:08 PM   #60 
           - Then let's effectively prosecute the laws we already have.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 07:15 PM   #62 
           - Also, if that is your point, what makes you  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 07:17 PM   #64 
           - How many laws are prosecuted that are NOT on the books?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 07:57 PM   #72 
           - I'm agreeing with you. I was expanding on my original point. I should have been moore clear.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 08:38 PM   #81 
              - Sorry. . .  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:47 PM   #86 
  - What if they started beating up white males at random?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 06:28 PM   #30 
     - They could be charged with murder.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:36 PM   #35 
        - Nope. . .it would be reduced to manslaughter.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 06:38 PM   #39 
           - Your use of "they" is quite alarming.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:41 PM   #41 
              - They is a plural reference to a "group"  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 07:58 PM   #73 
  - Easy, the "hate crime" is separate charge from the , and I hate  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 05:50 PM   #11 
  - WRONG.  CTD   Jun-20-07 06:46 PM   #49 
     - No you are treating different crimes differently  dsc   Jun-20-07 06:53 PM   #53 
     - No, actually it's not. Because we don't know what inspired the bar fight.  CTD   Jun-20-07 06:59 PM   #55 
     - What a bullshit argument.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 07:53 PM   #71 
     - Agreed, but that is a function of sentencing.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:59 PM   #57 
        - I can't fathom you would prefer to have one judge make that decision  dsc   Jun-20-07 07:15 PM   #63 
           - Why would you think jury would do that  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 07:21 PM   #66 
              - because no less than the Supreme Court has ruled about this  dsc   Jun-20-07 08:40 PM   #82 
     - But you didn't mind when it was perfectly fine for the dominant  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 06:59 PM   #56 
        - That, true as it is, must be addressed through education, or it will not stick.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 07:01 PM   #58 
           - That "education" does not save someone's life or protect their rights now  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 07:20 PM   #65 
              - I still don't see how new laws, that even you question  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 07:23 PM   #67 
                 - Right....let's just do nothing, shall we?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:10 PM   #74 
                 - and it ain't a new law.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 10:28 PM   #123 
  - Maybe you should think long and hard.  Bornaginhooligan   Jun-20-07 05:47 PM   #8 
  - ??? Go on......  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 05:48 PM   #10 
  - are you against current hate crime statutes  dsc   Jun-20-07 05:53 PM   #12 
  - Yes, criminalizing thoughts is wrong. I lobbied  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 05:57 PM   #14 
  - a hate crime is a civil right violation  dsc   Jun-20-07 06:08 PM   #19 
     - Correct, that's why we don't need more legislation.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:09 PM   #20 
        - except gays aren't covered under those laws  dsc   Jun-20-07 06:18 PM   #24 
        - Those laws are unnecessary as well.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:21 PM   #25 
        - Too bad most people don't think that  dsc   Jun-20-07 06:24 PM   #28 
        - What is to be gained by these laws?  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:31 PM   #31 
           - These laws have cut down on lynchings of African Americans  gollygee   Jun-20-07 06:32 PM   #32 
           - Lynchings stopped well before hate crime legistlation  Solo_in_MD   Jun-20-07 06:43 PM   #44 
           - But not incidents of being dragged behind a redneck pickup truck.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:15 PM   #77 
              - Thats quite a flaming non-sequiter you have there  Solo_in_MD   Jun-20-07 09:07 PM   #92 
                 - They have life imprisonment, and they have tried to get that changed already  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 09:32 PM   #97 
           - I think education has done more  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:44 PM   #45 
              - Well, let's just all wait until you educate the offending minority  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:17 PM   #78 
           - among other things it would send a message  dsc   Jun-20-07 06:37 PM   #37 
           - How would that be a different message  Solo_in_MD   Jun-20-07 06:45 PM   #48 
           - How many white men are murdered because they are white men?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:18 PM   #79 
              - There are no accurate statistics on hate crimes  Solo_in_MD   Jun-20-07 09:00 PM   #90 
                 - Isn't a hate crime itself rather capriciously applied?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 09:44 PM   #99 
           - If someone needs to hear that  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:52 PM   #52 
              - Nor will any pretense of education while hundreds of  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:53 PM   #87 
           - What specifically is going to be lost? The gay panic defense?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:54 PM   #88 
              - "gay panic defense" IS bullshit. But how does this  MNDemNY   Jun-21-07 08:31 AM   #172 
        - Really?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 06:36 PM   #36 
           - Then the fight should be taken there.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:48 PM   #50 
              - Let's tell the thousands of future victims that maybe someday  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 09:09 PM   #93 
        - On a side note...  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:23 PM   #26 
        - You sure seem real trusting of the status quo  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:12 PM   #76 
  - And also, I don't think those laws protect anything.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:00 PM   #16 
  - Concur  Solo_in_MD   Jun-20-07 06:42 PM   #42 
  - Yep  cgrindley   Jun-20-07 10:03 PM   #109 
     - What kind of "freedom of thought?"  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 10:13 PM   #115 
        - That's just ridiculous  cgrindley   Jun-20-07 10:23 PM   #120 
           - How, exactly, is the motive criminalized?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 10:42 PM   #128 
           - Ummm... my thoughts won't be criminalized  cgrindley   Jun-20-07 10:54 PM   #133 
              - Yes I do. Because I have not seen anything which indicates  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 11:33 PM   #150 
                 - I can totally respect your views and for the most part agree  cgrindley   Jun-21-07 08:26 AM   #170 
           - YES  MNDemNY   Jun-21-07 08:33 AM   #173 
  - K&R  gollygee   Jun-20-07 05:26 PM   #2 
  - The Right-Wing Hates Gays  ronhardy   Jun-20-07 05:34 PM   #3 
  - I don't doubt that, but what does that have to do with this?  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 06:03 PM   #17 
     - That's right. . .and we have to protect the Right's entitlement to hate  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 09:03 PM   #91 
  - We need to fix our justice system, not simply create bandaid laws.  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 05:45 PM   #6 
  - Right on.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 05:47 PM   #9 
  - One constitutional amendment  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 06:52 PM   #51 
  - Almost.  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 09:13 PM   #94 
     - We've tried that route in this country, and it hasn't worked.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 09:48 PM   #100 
        - We tried energy conservation, too. Should we not bother with it now?  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 10:17 PM   #117 
           - And doing NOTHING will not change the misapplication of the laws either.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 10:27 PM   #122 
              - I haven't suggested doing "NOTHING" yet. YOU are the one who keeps saying that.  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 10:59 PM   #137 
                 - Terrorism was suggested in a Florida court case by the prosecutor  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 11:37 PM   #151 
                 - The op seems blinded by rage. May he heal.  MNDemNY   Jun-21-07 08:35 AM   #174 
  - Hi, Year 3052! This is 2007! Can We Talk?  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 09:23 PM   #95 
     - Current laws aren't working so you think making more will?  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 09:26 PM   #96 
     - Got One, Thanks! Here's One for You:  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 09:35 PM   #98 
     - Apparently not to them. . .adding gay people is an outrage  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 10:01 PM   #106 
     - No, you didn't get it.  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 10:04 PM   #110 
        - When you get around to using the laws to protect all citizens,  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 10:22 PM   #119 
        - When did I tell "your people" to keep dying, or anything else for that matter?  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 10:40 PM   #127 
           - Do you have something to support that contention?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 10:52 PM   #132 
              - OK, when you want to stop distorting what I've said, maybe we'll talk.  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 11:06 PM   #142 
        - Couldn't Hurt  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 10:24 PM   #121 
           - How can you be more equal than "all citizens?"  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 10:48 PM   #131 
           - Hate to Cut Things Short  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 11:06 PM   #143 
           - "All citizens" doesn't include the ones who one group claims is  kevinbgoode   Jun-21-07 12:36 AM   #165 
           - I suspect some of the passion on the other side is  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 11:12 PM   #144 
     - And why aren't those current laws working?  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 09:59 PM   #105 
        - That wasn't my assertion, it the person I was responding to who said that.  porphyrian   Jun-20-07 10:12 PM   #114 
     - hahaha...but...but we have to protect their right to BELIEVE  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 09:58 PM   #103 
        - STILL, you're problem is with the JUSTICE SYSTEM, not the laws as written.  Atman   Jun-20-07 11:49 PM   #154 
  - Another video link warning graphic language and very moving  dsc   Jun-20-07 06:07 PM   #18 
  - Just in case anyone needs a reminder why hate crimes legislation should be passed  terrya   Jun-20-07 06:12 PM   #21 
  - I hate to run, but I've got things to do.  MNDemNY   Jun-20-07 07:26 PM   #68 
  - If You're Against This Legislation, You're Against Equal Rights for Gays. PERIOD.  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 07:48 PM   #70 
  - Exactly.  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 08:22 PM   #80 
  - Sure is.  Atman   Jun-20-07 09:55 PM   #102 
  - BULL FUCKING SHIT  Atman   Jun-20-07 09:54 PM   #101 
     - That's For Sure  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 09:59 PM   #104 
     - How do you know I'm not gay, black or Jewish?  Atman   Jun-20-07 10:01 PM   #107 
        - Oh, My Sweet Lamb  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 10:06 PM   #111 
           - Oh. I get it. So, you HATE white male Christians because they beat gays?  Atman   Jun-20-07 10:09 PM   #112 
              - I Don't Hate Groups. I Hate Individuals. And Carrot Cake.  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 10:31 PM   #125 
              - It's not okay to kill ANY men. That's not unreasonable. And it's already LAW!  Atman   Jun-20-07 10:47 PM   #130 
                 - Maybe that's so?  kevinbgoode   Jun-21-07 03:01 AM   #168 
              - You already have that special protection. It's in the law now.  kevinbgoode   Jun-21-07 02:53 AM   #167 
     - When you start being targeted simply because you are a man  kevinbgoode   Jun-20-07 10:11 PM   #113 
     - You can make the same argument about ANY "class" of people.  Atman   Jun-20-07 10:29 PM   #124 
        - I think I'm perfectly capable of expressing myself, thank you.  kevinbgoode   Jun-21-07 02:40 AM   #166 
     - Now that I've let it go for a couple of posts...  Atman   Jun-20-07 10:18 PM   #118 
        - But the proposed laws DON'T create a special class of citizen.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 10:35 PM   #126 
           - That is total nonsense.  Atman   Jun-20-07 10:43 PM   #129 
              - Sexual Orientation Covers Heterosexuality, Too.  Toasterlad   Jun-20-07 10:54 PM   #134 
              - If you're out walking in West Hollywood and ANYONE scratches you silly...  Atman   Jun-20-07 10:57 PM   #136 
                 - Please address the point of your erroneous assertion of some "super gay-citizen"  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 11:00 PM   #138 
                    - No can do.  Atman   Jun-20-07 11:02 PM   #140 
                    - The other poster pointed out, by example, your misconception that straight people wouldn't...  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 11:24 PM   #147 
                       - Just the the name of intellectual honesty, I am 100% right about the law.  Atman   Jun-20-07 11:33 PM   #149 
                    - BTW, is your world populated only by 97 pound twinks?  Atman   Jun-20-07 11:06 PM   #141 
                       - WTF are you talking about? And WTF does that have to do with protection under the law?  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 11:20 PM   #146 
                          - So then, answer my question.  Atman   Jun-20-07 11:38 PM   #152 
                             - I never said any such thing and this line of discussion is bizarre.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 11:56 PM   #156 
                                - AS MUCH AS I HATE TO ADMIT IT?! That's ALL I've been saying!  Atman   Jun-21-07 12:00 AM   #157 
                                   - Ha! Nice try. Under the hate crimes laws too.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-21-07 12:05 AM   #160 
                                      - Okay, you've officially lost me.  Atman   Jun-21-07 12:11 AM   #163 
              - Beside your name calling, can you address the point that the laws don't ....  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 10:56 PM   #135 
                 - Name calling?  Atman   Jun-20-07 11:01 PM   #139 
                    - LOL. Maybe they should take an equal amount of the money spent on anti-gay crime and burn it?  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 11:12 PM   #145 
                       - Jesus H. Christ!  Atman   Jun-20-07 11:26 PM   #148 
                          - Sorry. Like the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion....  Kingshakabobo   Jun-20-07 11:38 PM   #153 
                          - You're just full of shit now, King.  Atman   Jun-20-07 11:55 PM   #155 
                             - Spare me the feigned indignation.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-21-07 12:03 AM   #158 
                                - No, you have just refused to acknowledge that I showed you.  Atman   Jun-21-07 12:10 AM   #162 
                                   - I didn't call you a fundie parrot. Stop waisting my time with that bullshit.  Kingshakabobo   Jun-21-07 12:31 AM   #164 
                          - have to be kidding.  kevinbgoode   Jun-21-07 03:24 AM   #169 
  - Kick  sfexpat2000   Jun-20-07 10:02 PM   #108 
  - Hate crimes are the equivalent to community terrorism  GeneCosta   Jun-20-07 10:14 PM   #116 
  - As someone who works in the criminal justice field, I am completely opposed  peacebaby3   Jun-21-07 12:04 AM   #159 
     - Do you want to post a reason or should we guess? n/t  Kingshakabobo   Jun-21-07 12:06 AM   #161 

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