kevinbgoode
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Wed Jun-20-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #81 |
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My bad.
I am just appalled at how ridiculous some of these arguments are on this issue.
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| -Please consider helping pass the Hate Crimes legislation |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 05:20 PM |
#0 |
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Maybe we should think long and hard |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 05:23 PM |
#1 |
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Well then it's a good thing we are NOT criminalizing thought. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 05:38 PM |
#4 |
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Motivation? bs There |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 05:44 PM |
#5 |
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We punish motivation all the time in other contexts |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 05:55 PM |
#13 |
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Death penalty should go as well, Extra crime of |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 05:59 PM |
#15 |
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Certainly these factors should |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:35 PM |
#34 |
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How are the beliefs being criminalized? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:44 PM |
#84 |
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Really...how many times have laws relating to conspiracies |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 06:14 PM |
#22 |
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Who is this "they" of which you speak? |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:37 PM |
#38 |
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THEY = judiciary. It is rather obvious in the sentence. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:11 PM |
#75 |
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Why do you bring up conspiracies? |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 06:23 PM |
#27 |
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No, the crime is the denial of civil rights. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:25 PM |
#29 |
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Please explain to me an example of "denying civil rights" in the commission of a violent crime. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 06:44 PM |
#46 |
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Take for instance |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:55 PM |
#54 |
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Why wouldn't that be simple murder? And do you think gay bashing should be a federal crime? |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 08:55 PM |
#89 |
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What if some one commits a crime because they |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 05:46 PM |
#7 |
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Why don't we worry about fords and red hair when....... |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 06:17 PM |
#23 |
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I'm with you on that one. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 06:33 PM |
#33 |
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"we" ?? "they" ?? Maybe you need to reflect a bit. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:39 PM |
#40 |
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I've reflected more than long enough |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 07:06 PM |
#59 |
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I hope you are being sarcastic to |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 07:12 PM |
#61 |
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"Straight panic" |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 07:33 PM |
#69 |
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That bullshit argument is cut from the same cloth as the anti-gay marriage argument. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 06:42 PM |
#43 |
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I don't follow your analogy. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:45 PM |
#47 |
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Your red haired ford driver scenario serves to dilute what's REALLY happening to GLBT people.... |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 08:40 PM |
#83 |
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I noticed that too. . . |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:45 PM |
#85 |
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"these people" |
MNDemNY |
Jun-21-07 08:27 AM |
#171 |
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Really? How many women do you know who move freely |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 07:08 PM |
#60 |
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Then let's effectively prosecute the laws we already have. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 07:15 PM |
#62 |
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Also, if that is your point, what makes you |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 07:17 PM |
#64 |
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How many laws are prosecuted that are NOT on the books? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 07:57 PM |
#72 |
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I'm agreeing with you. I was expanding on my original point. I should have been moore clear. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 08:38 PM |
#81 |
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Sorry. . . |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:47 PM |
#86 |
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What if they started beating up white males at random? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 06:28 PM |
#30 |
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They could be charged with murder. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:36 PM |
#35 |
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Nope. . .it would be reduced to manslaughter. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 06:38 PM |
#39 |
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Your use of "they" is quite alarming. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:41 PM |
#41 |
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They is a plural reference to a "group" |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 07:58 PM |
#73 |
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Easy, the "hate crime" is separate charge from the , and I hate |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 05:50 PM |
#11 |
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WRONG. |
CTD |
Jun-20-07 06:46 PM |
#49 |
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No you are treating different crimes differently |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 06:53 PM |
#53 |
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No, actually it's not. Because we don't know what inspired the bar fight. |
CTD |
Jun-20-07 06:59 PM |
#55 |
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What a bullshit argument. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 07:53 PM |
#71 |
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Agreed, but that is a function of sentencing. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:59 PM |
#57 |
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I can't fathom you would prefer to have one judge make that decision |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 07:15 PM |
#63 |
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Why would you think jury would do that |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 07:21 PM |
#66 |
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because no less than the Supreme Court has ruled about this |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 08:40 PM |
#82 |
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But you didn't mind when it was perfectly fine for the dominant |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 06:59 PM |
#56 |
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That, true as it is, must be addressed through education, or it will not stick. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 07:01 PM |
#58 |
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That "education" does not save someone's life or protect their rights now |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 07:20 PM |
#65 |
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I still don't see how new laws, that even you question |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 07:23 PM |
#67 |
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Right....let's just do nothing, shall we? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:10 PM |
#74 |
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and it ain't a new law. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 10:28 PM |
#123 |
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Maybe you should think long and hard. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Jun-20-07 05:47 PM |
#8 |
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??? Go on...... |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 05:48 PM |
#10 |
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are you against current hate crime statutes |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 05:53 PM |
#12 |
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Yes, criminalizing thoughts is wrong. I lobbied |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 05:57 PM |
#14 |
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a hate crime is a civil right violation |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 06:08 PM |
#19 |
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Correct, that's why we don't need more legislation. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:09 PM |
#20 |
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except gays aren't covered under those laws |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 06:18 PM |
#24 |
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Those laws are unnecessary as well. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:21 PM |
#25 |
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Too bad most people don't think that |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 06:24 PM |
#28 |
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What is to be gained by these laws? |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:31 PM |
#31 |
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These laws have cut down on lynchings of African Americans |
gollygee |
Jun-20-07 06:32 PM |
#32 |
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Lynchings stopped well before hate crime legistlation |
Solo_in_MD |
Jun-20-07 06:43 PM |
#44 |
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But not incidents of being dragged behind a redneck pickup truck. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:15 PM |
#77 |
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Thats quite a flaming non-sequiter you have there |
Solo_in_MD |
Jun-20-07 09:07 PM |
#92 |
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They have life imprisonment, and they have tried to get that changed already |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 09:32 PM |
#97 |
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I think education has done more |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:44 PM |
#45 |
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Well, let's just all wait until you educate the offending minority |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:17 PM |
#78 |
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among other things it would send a message |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 06:37 PM |
#37 |
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How would that be a different message |
Solo_in_MD |
Jun-20-07 06:45 PM |
#48 |
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How many white men are murdered because they are white men? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:18 PM |
#79 |
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There are no accurate statistics on hate crimes |
Solo_in_MD |
Jun-20-07 09:00 PM |
#90 |
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Isn't a hate crime itself rather capriciously applied? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 09:44 PM |
#99 |
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If someone needs to hear that |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:52 PM |
#52 |
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Nor will any pretense of education while hundreds of |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:53 PM |
#87 |
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What specifically is going to be lost? The gay panic defense? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:54 PM |
#88 |
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"gay panic defense" IS bullshit. But how does this |
MNDemNY |
Jun-21-07 08:31 AM |
#172 |
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Really? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 06:36 PM |
#36 |
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Then the fight should be taken there. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:48 PM |
#50 |
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Let's tell the thousands of future victims that maybe someday |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 09:09 PM |
#93 |
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On a side note... |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:23 PM |
#26 |
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You sure seem real trusting of the status quo |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:12 PM |
#76 |
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And also, I don't think those laws protect anything. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:00 PM |
#16 |
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Concur |
Solo_in_MD |
Jun-20-07 06:42 PM |
#42 |
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Yep |
cgrindley |
Jun-20-07 10:03 PM |
#109 |
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What kind of "freedom of thought?" |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 10:13 PM |
#115 |
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That's just ridiculous |
cgrindley |
Jun-20-07 10:23 PM |
#120 |
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How, exactly, is the motive criminalized? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 10:42 PM |
#128 |
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Ummm... my thoughts won't be criminalized |
cgrindley |
Jun-20-07 10:54 PM |
#133 |
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Yes I do. Because I have not seen anything which indicates |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 11:33 PM |
#150 |
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I can totally respect your views and for the most part agree |
cgrindley |
Jun-21-07 08:26 AM |
#170 |
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YES |
MNDemNY |
Jun-21-07 08:33 AM |
#173 |
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K&R |
gollygee |
Jun-20-07 05:26 PM |
#2 |
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The Right-Wing Hates Gays |
ronhardy |
Jun-20-07 05:34 PM |
#3 |
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I don't doubt that, but what does that have to do with this? |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 06:03 PM |
#17 |
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That's right. . .and we have to protect the Right's entitlement to hate |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 09:03 PM |
#91 |
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We need to fix our justice system, not simply create bandaid laws. |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 05:45 PM |
#6 |
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Right on. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 05:47 PM |
#9 |
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One constitutional amendment |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 06:52 PM |
#51 |
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Almost. |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 09:13 PM |
#94 |
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We've tried that route in this country, and it hasn't worked. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 09:48 PM |
#100 |
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We tried energy conservation, too. Should we not bother with it now? |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 10:17 PM |
#117 |
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And doing NOTHING will not change the misapplication of the laws either. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 10:27 PM |
#122 |
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I haven't suggested doing "NOTHING" yet. YOU are the one who keeps saying that. |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 10:59 PM |
#137 |
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Terrorism was suggested in a Florida court case by the prosecutor |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 11:37 PM |
#151 |
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The op seems blinded by rage. May he heal. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-21-07 08:35 AM |
#174 |
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Hi, Year 3052! This is 2007! Can We Talk? |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 09:23 PM |
#95 |
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Current laws aren't working so you think making more will? |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 09:26 PM |
#96 |
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Got One, Thanks! Here's One for You: |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 09:35 PM |
#98 |
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Apparently not to them. . .adding gay people is an outrage |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 10:01 PM |
#106 |
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No, you didn't get it. |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 10:04 PM |
#110 |
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When you get around to using the laws to protect all citizens, |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 10:22 PM |
#119 |
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When did I tell "your people" to keep dying, or anything else for that matter? |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 10:40 PM |
#127 |
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Do you have something to support that contention? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 10:52 PM |
#132 |
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OK, when you want to stop distorting what I've said, maybe we'll talk. |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 11:06 PM |
#142 |
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Couldn't Hurt |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 10:24 PM |
#121 |
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How can you be more equal than "all citizens?" |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 10:48 PM |
#131 |
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Hate to Cut Things Short |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 11:06 PM |
#143 |
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"All citizens" doesn't include the ones who one group claims is |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-21-07 12:36 AM |
#165 |
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I suspect some of the passion on the other side is |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 11:12 PM |
#144 |
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And why aren't those current laws working? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 09:59 PM |
#105 |
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That wasn't my assertion, it the person I was responding to who said that. |
porphyrian |
Jun-20-07 10:12 PM |
#114 |
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hahaha...but...but we have to protect their right to BELIEVE |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 09:58 PM |
#103 |
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STILL, you're problem is with the JUSTICE SYSTEM, not the laws as written. |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 11:49 PM |
#154 |
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Another video link warning graphic language and very moving |
dsc |
Jun-20-07 06:07 PM |
#18 |
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Just in case anyone needs a reminder why hate crimes legislation should be passed |
terrya |
Jun-20-07 06:12 PM |
#21 |
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I hate to run, but I've got things to do. |
MNDemNY |
Jun-20-07 07:26 PM |
#68 |
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If You're Against This Legislation, You're Against Equal Rights for Gays. PERIOD. |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 07:48 PM |
#70 |
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Exactly. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 08:22 PM |
#80 |
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Sure is. |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 09:55 PM |
#102 |
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BULL FUCKING SHIT |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 09:54 PM |
#101 |
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That's For Sure |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 09:59 PM |
#104 |
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How do you know I'm not gay, black or Jewish? |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 10:01 PM |
#107 |
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Oh, My Sweet Lamb |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 10:06 PM |
#111 |
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Oh. I get it. So, you HATE white male Christians because they beat gays? |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 10:09 PM |
#112 |
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I Don't Hate Groups. I Hate Individuals. And Carrot Cake. |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 10:31 PM |
#125 |
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It's not okay to kill ANY men. That's not unreasonable. And it's already LAW! |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 10:47 PM |
#130 |
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Maybe that's so? |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-21-07 03:01 AM |
#168 |
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You already have that special protection. It's in the law now. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-21-07 02:53 AM |
#167 |
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When you start being targeted simply because you are a man |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-20-07 10:11 PM |
#113 |
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You can make the same argument about ANY "class" of people. |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 10:29 PM |
#124 |
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I think I'm perfectly capable of expressing myself, thank you. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-21-07 02:40 AM |
#166 |
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Now that I've let it go for a couple of posts... |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 10:18 PM |
#118 |
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But the proposed laws DON'T create a special class of citizen. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 10:35 PM |
#126 |
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That is total nonsense. |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 10:43 PM |
#129 |
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Sexual Orientation Covers Heterosexuality, Too. |
Toasterlad |
Jun-20-07 10:54 PM |
#134 |
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If you're out walking in West Hollywood and ANYONE scratches you silly... |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 10:57 PM |
#136 |
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Please address the point of your erroneous assertion of some "super gay-citizen" |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 11:00 PM |
#138 |
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No can do. |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 11:02 PM |
#140 |
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The other poster pointed out, by example, your misconception that straight people wouldn't... |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 11:24 PM |
#147 |
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Just the opposite...in the name of intellectual honesty, I am 100% right about the law. |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 11:33 PM |
#149 |
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BTW, is your world populated only by 97 pound twinks? |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 11:06 PM |
#141 |
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WTF are you talking about? And WTF does that have to do with protection under the law? |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 11:20 PM |
#146 |
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So then, answer my question. |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 11:38 PM |
#152 |
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I never said any such thing and this line of discussion is bizarre. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 11:56 PM |
#156 |
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AS MUCH AS I HATE TO ADMIT IT?! That's ALL I've been saying! |
Atman |
Jun-21-07 12:00 AM |
#157 |
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Ha! Nice try. Under the hate crimes laws too. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-21-07 12:05 AM |
#160 |
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Okay, you've officially lost me. |
Atman |
Jun-21-07 12:11 AM |
#163 |
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Beside your name calling, can you address the point that the laws don't .... |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 10:56 PM |
#135 |
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Name calling? |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 11:01 PM |
#139 |
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LOL. Maybe they should take an equal amount of the money spent on anti-gay crime and burn it? |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 11:12 PM |
#145 |
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Jesus H. Christ! |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 11:26 PM |
#148 |
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Sorry. Like the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion.... |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-20-07 11:38 PM |
#153 |
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You're just full of shit now, King. |
Atman |
Jun-20-07 11:55 PM |
#155 |
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Spare me the feigned indignation. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-21-07 12:03 AM |
#158 |
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No, you have just refused to acknowledge that I showed you. |
Atman |
Jun-21-07 12:10 AM |
#162 |
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I didn't call you a fundie parrot. Stop waisting my time with that bullshit. |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-21-07 12:31 AM |
#164 |
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Uh....you have to be kidding. |
kevinbgoode |
Jun-21-07 03:24 AM |
#169 |
| -
Kick |
sfexpat2000 |
Jun-20-07 10:02 PM |
#108 |
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Hate crimes are the equivalent to community terrorism |
GeneCosta |
Jun-20-07 10:14 PM |
#116 |
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As someone who works in the criminal justice field, I am completely opposed |
peacebaby3 |
Jun-21-07 12:04 AM |
#159 |
| -
Do you want to post a reason or should we guess? n/t |
Kingshakabobo |
Jun-21-07 12:06 AM |
#161 |
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