mema42
(67 posts)
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Sat Jun-16-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #44 |
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Umm, that biometrics will most probably be on the card that anyone that wants a job has. The RealID.
That would be you and me. You should read the bill. Its quite frightening really.
I wish they would just kill it.
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| -New Immigration Bill has provisions to grant legal status to the 12 million |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 01:49 PM |
#0 |
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The Dems should be fighting for complete amnesty. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Jun-15-07 01:52 PM |
#1 |
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I support Complete Amnesty also |
Madspirit |
Jun-15-07 04:00 PM |
#15 |
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If they are not allowed to work illegally, they will go somewhere else, not? |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 05:08 PM |
#24 |
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blabity blabity blah |
Madspirit |
Jun-15-07 05:11 PM |
#25 |
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Hello. It is a crime to enter the United States without a visa. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 11:29 PM |
#30 |
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Nearly half of the population of the U.S. has knowingly violated marijuana laws |
Telly Savalas |
Jun-16-07 12:03 AM |
#32 |
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So if I follow that logic |
Jim Warren |
Jun-16-07 01:41 AM |
#36 |
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Do I hear crickets? nt |
mycritters2 |
Jun-16-07 08:12 PM |
#89 |
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You're moving the goalposts. |
Telly Savalas |
Jun-17-07 10:26 AM |
#120 |
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Of course it.s bullshit |
Jim Warren |
Jun-18-07 01:01 AM |
#136 |
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U: "and you Nativists know it." Isn't name calling is the last resort of failed argumentation. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-20-07 12:00 AM |
#150 |
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blabity blabity blah |
Jim Warren |
Jun-16-07 01:32 AM |
#35 |
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It's a civil offense |
proud2Blib |
Jun-16-07 01:46 AM |
#37 |
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As is treason........nt |
Jim Warren |
Jun-16-07 01:55 AM |
#38 |
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It's more than a stretch to compare treeason |
proud2Blib |
Jun-16-07 02:59 AM |
#39 |
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I don't think so. |
mycritters2 |
Jun-16-07 08:13 PM |
#90 |
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You're right! |
LanternWaste |
Jun-18-07 01:35 PM |
#144 |
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Actually, it is not a crime |
Freddie Stubbs |
Jun-19-07 08:40 AM |
#149 |
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Harboring criminals is illegal also. I guess a little jail time won't hurt you. |
dkofos |
Jun-16-07 03:48 PM |
#67 |
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Yea, but Madspirit won't go to hell for not helping the least as you will... |
pingzing58 |
Jun-17-07 01:55 AM |
#107 |
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What? Oh...... that's right |
Jim Warren |
Jun-17-07 02:42 AM |
#110 |
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lol |
pingzing58 |
Jun-17-07 02:43 AM |
#111 |
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Don't believe in hell. |
dkofos |
Jun-17-07 08:31 AM |
#114 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jun-17-07 02:34 AM |
#109 |
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undercriminalization too |
mema42 |
Jun-17-07 09:28 AM |
#115 |
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You raise an important question and issue. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 08:28 PM |
#134 |
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read the post |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 05:28 PM |
#73 |
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So because you've got some illegal buddies, |
Anaxamander |
Jun-16-07 06:28 PM |
#78 |
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Then what??? What is to be done with the NEXT TWELVE MILLION? |
TahitiNut |
Jun-16-07 12:45 PM |
#50 |
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Keep out the Irish! Keep out the Chinese! Keep out the Mexicans! |
pampango |
Jun-16-07 12:48 PM |
#51 |
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Got nothing, huh? |
TahitiNut |
Jun-16-07 12:58 PM |
#52 |
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Didn't know the Irish and Chinese came over on slave ships, too. |
pampango |
Jun-16-07 02:44 PM |
#57 |
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I guess you don't give a shit about the Irish-Americans, Chinese-Americans, ... |
TahitiNut |
Jun-16-07 03:06 PM |
#59 |
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focus? And remember, the "illegal migrants" came here over 10,000 years ago!! |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 03:13 PM |
#60 |
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My point was not that you were a racist. |
pampango |
Jun-16-07 03:20 PM |
#64 |
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I support LEGAL immigration. |
TahitiNut |
Jun-16-07 06:18 PM |
#75 |
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good points there |
Blue_Tires |
Jun-16-07 08:41 PM |
#95 |
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Thanks. Appreciate it. |
TahitiNut |
Jun-16-07 09:56 PM |
#96 |
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Kudos |
Jim Warren |
Jun-16-07 11:22 PM |
#100 |
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I really appreciate your generosity. Even when I reread 'em I still feel I'm falling short. |
TahitiNut |
Jun-17-07 12:10 AM |
#101 |
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U: "EVERY citizen should take part in forming our laws and complying with them." |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 12:23 AM |
#102 |
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The economy should serve the people, NOT vice versa. |
TahitiNut |
Jun-17-07 12:43 AM |
#103 |
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I see we criticize the same side of the contradiction. Where is your response to |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 01:16 AM |
#104 |
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As I've tried to make clear (and apparently failed), we must ENFORCE and COMPLY with |
TahitiNut |
Jun-17-07 11:02 AM |
#122 |
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ABSOLUTELY, nd very well-stated. And, yes, let's get evidence on the employers |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 03:43 PM |
#131 |
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Again........IMHO........spot on. |
Jim Warren |
Jun-17-07 01:31 AM |
#105 |
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Perhaps the one thing that you and I could agree on would be |
pampango |
Jun-17-07 10:16 AM |
#119 |
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wonderfully put |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 10:20 PM |
#97 |
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not racism or nativism |
mema42 |
Jun-17-07 10:03 AM |
#117 |
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Thank you. That's exactly how I view it. |
TahitiNut |
Jun-17-07 11:17 AM |
#123 |
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And, the solution is ? |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Jun-16-07 04:21 PM |
#69 |
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Profits |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 05:33 PM |
#74 |
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Well, it's profits for "owners" and a fraction of the value of their labor to workers. |
TahitiNut |
Jun-16-07 10:51 PM |
#98 |
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profits for the rich |
mema42 |
Jun-17-07 09:35 AM |
#116 |
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See my post #75 above ... |
TahitiNut |
Jun-16-07 06:24 PM |
#77 |
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Why not invite all 6 Billion + people in the world to become citizens?? |
dkofos |
Jun-16-07 03:44 PM |
#66 |
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Go ahead. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Jun-16-07 04:21 PM |
#70 |
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Just guessing, but did you read the OP at all? |
L. Coyote |
Jun-18-07 11:25 PM |
#146 |
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No. I don't understand where your 'new, non-voting class of workers' comes from. They're already |
sinkingfeeling |
Jun-15-07 01:57 PM |
#2 |
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The provisions to give current non-visa migrants legal status determines when and how |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 02:13 PM |
#4 |
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Nothing like creating a slave class... |
LostInAnomie |
Jun-15-07 02:03 PM |
#3 |
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There are efforts underway to create political traps with legislation |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 02:16 PM |
#5 |
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Well, anyone that votes for it deserves to be blown up in that minefield. |
LostInAnomie |
Jun-15-07 02:31 PM |
#6 |
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Indeed. Enforcement would have prevented the problem. Who benefitted? |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 02:38 PM |
#7 |
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Exactly Right |
NeedleCast |
Jun-17-07 10:35 AM |
#121 |
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Giving them legal status means that they can't be paid slave wages |
Hippo_Tron |
Jun-15-07 02:42 PM |
#8 |
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There's a lot of incentive to hire an immigrant willing to work construction... |
LostInAnomie |
Jun-15-07 02:50 PM |
#9 |
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So even legal immigrants are bad for the country? n/t |
pampango |
Jun-15-07 03:01 PM |
#10 |
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Depends on what you are talking about. |
LostInAnomie |
Jun-15-07 03:28 PM |
#11 |
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Hah, but to get the diversity and richness into our culture, |
pampango |
Jun-15-07 03:43 PM |
#12 |
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And we do accept immigrants. |
LostInAnomie |
Jun-15-07 03:58 PM |
#14 |
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They are ALREADY here. |
Madspirit |
Jun-15-07 04:01 PM |
#16 |
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And I support making it impossible for illegal immigrants to find work. |
LostInAnomie |
Jun-15-07 04:11 PM |
#18 |
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Well, we will have to step out back then |
Madspirit |
Jun-15-07 05:13 PM |
#26 |
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I guess so, because I support my family and friends... |
LostInAnomie |
Jun-15-07 05:43 PM |
#29 |
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You may be happy to hear that Tom Tancredo agrees with you |
pampango |
Jun-16-07 06:02 AM |
#41 |
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Construction work pay has been frozen for more than 20 years due to the underground economy. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 09:28 AM |
#43 |
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It's very similar to the way "scabs" were used to destroy organized labor. |
TahitiNut |
Jun-16-07 03:15 PM |
#61 |
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Thank you |
snailly |
Jun-18-07 11:31 PM |
#147 |
| -
ITIN |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 02:03 PM |
#54 |
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guest workers |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 02:01 PM |
#53 |
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You've noticed the strong anti-immigrant bias... |
Bridget Burke |
Jun-18-07 06:28 AM |
#140 |
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Anti-immigration isn't bias if it is a reasoned position, if it's just opposition. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-18-07 09:22 AM |
#142 |
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But 12 million minimum wage payed workers will still screw up the middle class, and others |
conspirator |
Jun-16-07 10:30 AM |
#45 |
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Consider who is lobbying for this and who will benefit. Business interests |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 03:51 PM |
#13 |
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My Friends |
Madspirit |
Jun-15-07 04:02 PM |
#17 |
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You and the US Chamber of Commerce |
mycritters2 |
Jun-15-07 04:18 PM |
#19 |
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FOLLOW THE MONEY Lobbyists & $$$ BILLIONS with a B, BBBillions!!! |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 04:28 PM |
#21 |
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Inane Babbling |
Madspirit |
Jun-15-07 05:15 PM |
#27 |
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Finally, the "corporate shill" accusation. |
pampango |
Jun-16-07 05:46 AM |
#40 |
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Congrats, Now you're on their "wing-nut shill" list too. Give yourself a metal. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 09:23 AM |
#42 |
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Of course, given the alternative. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 04:24 PM |
#20 |
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It's not "rewarding their crimininality"... |
High Plains |
Jun-17-07 12:14 PM |
#125 |
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What happens if illegal employment ends? Illegal workers will go away. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 03:49 PM |
#132 |
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As long as we're dealing in generalizations, I have a concern ... |
TahitiNut |
Jun-17-07 04:45 PM |
#133 |
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Bush is holding border security and ... |
Babel_17 |
Jun-15-07 04:49 PM |
#22 |
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Very good points. The struggle will be over the amendments, reshaping the bill. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-15-07 05:03 PM |
#23 |
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This is a horrible bill; effectively creates a non-ending, second-class, slave-labor |
AzDar |
Jun-15-07 05:25 PM |
#28 |
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Alot of people don't understand that making illegals legal without stopping the employers... |
Marrah_G |
Jun-15-07 11:47 PM |
#31 |
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Excellent Points. It all happened before, just as you say. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 12:16 AM |
#33 |
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yup, it has to be a multi pronged approach |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 02:09 PM |
#55 |
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U.S. Chamber of Commerce openly advocates amnesty for illegal aliens |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 12:59 AM |
#34 |
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What disturbs me are the provisions in the bill that aren't being aired in the open. |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Jun-16-07 09:29 AM |
#44 |
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RealID |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 02:11 PM |
#56 |
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And being a life-long Democrat, it freaks me out that the Democrats are backing this bill. I feel |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Jun-16-07 02:52 PM |
#58 |
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Watch the amendments debate. Did you see the reaction to Dorgan's amendment. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 03:17 PM |
#62 |
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And I feel like pinching my fingers here (like biting my tongue), Dorgan is right. |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Jun-16-07 03:54 PM |
#68 |
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I saw the debate. Dorgan nailed it like he does the big oil issue. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 08:18 PM |
#91 |
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I was looking for Dorgan on YouTube and found this clip discussing his |
OmmmSweetOmmm |
Jun-17-07 07:19 AM |
#113 |
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1. It's a step forward. 2.It's better than the alternative. 3.It's a NIXON-in-China opportunity. |
UTUSN |
Jun-16-07 10:48 AM |
#46 |
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Something has to be done. The OP poses the question of ramifications to democracy. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 11:58 AM |
#47 |
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As I said, the clear inequalities will have to be faced by SCOTUS |
UTUSN |
Jun-16-07 12:18 PM |
#48 |
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The amendments to the proposed legislation will be an interesting debate |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 12:34 PM |
#49 |
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not sure about this |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 03:40 PM |
#65 |
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Why are you not sure of "what is trying to be said?" It might even be over-simplified |
UTUSN |
Jun-16-07 04:28 PM |
#71 |
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part of what the OP mentioned was the right to vote |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 05:23 PM |
#72 |
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I think |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 03:19 PM |
#63 |
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Guest worker programs should include strong wage protections for U.S. workers |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 06:24 PM |
#76 |
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It seems demanding that employers pay everyone the same wage |
Cleita |
Jun-16-07 06:30 PM |
#81 |
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All Americans should be because even if they don't care about |
Cleita |
Jun-16-07 06:28 PM |
#79 |
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you mean the southern democrats? |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 06:46 PM |
#84 |
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Sunset provision on guest worker program passes |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 06:29 PM |
#80 |
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Sen. Dorgan: Unlabor Day - The immigration bill will hurt American workers |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 06:34 PM |
#82 |
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What do understand by "real border security?" |
pingzing58 |
Jun-17-07 12:45 PM |
#126 |
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You are right. Is the $4.4 BILLION in the current legislation pure cronyism |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 12:55 PM |
#127 |
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I've been searching for an argument against the funding for a fence and yours is excellent. |
pingzing58 |
Jun-17-07 01:11 PM |
#128 |
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good thing it is gone |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 06:47 PM |
#85 |
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The sunset provision passed, but the guest worker provision was not amended out. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 07:14 PM |
#87 |
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Bush defends immigration bill, guest worker program |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 06:45 PM |
#83 |
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Registration, temporary cards, "Z" visas, eight year waits, barriers to citizenship |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 06:54 PM |
#86 |
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touchback and more |
mema42 |
Jun-16-07 07:45 PM |
#88 |
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I have know idea what the Dems are thinking about on this |
lovuian |
Jun-16-07 08:22 PM |
#92 |
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Watch the Senate on C-SPAN when it goes back to the floor, and read the Congressional Record. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-16-07 08:30 PM |
#94 |
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It's about dealing with reality! It's about dealing with things as they are. |
pingzing58 |
Jun-17-07 02:01 AM |
#108 |
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ironically, Europe is having its own issues |
Blue_Tires |
Jun-16-07 08:25 PM |
#93 |
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I'm very conservative on illegal immigration. |
MrSlayer |
Jun-16-07 10:58 PM |
#99 |
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Why? |
pingzing58 |
Jun-17-07 01:52 AM |
#106 |
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I don't blame the Mexicans. |
Xap |
Jun-17-07 03:17 AM |
#112 |
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Blaming corporations is a simplificatioin. Lots of independent businessmen too. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 10:11 AM |
#118 |
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Fwiw, I work with many legal immigrants |
Babel_17 |
Jun-17-07 11:47 AM |
#124 |
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TEXT Senate Bill 1348 = MUST READ |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 02:01 PM |
#129 |
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A thread for those who have read the proposed language |
L. Coyote |
Jun-17-07 02:20 PM |
#130 |
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I read it this afternoon, all 628 pages, but why? |
Cleita |
Jun-18-07 01:16 AM |
#138 |
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It is going to the Senate Floor for debate, and amendments will be offered. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-18-07 09:14 AM |
#141 |
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I posted my thoughts to you someplace else, but here I'll do it again. |
Cleita |
Jun-18-07 12:50 PM |
#143 |
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The good and lenghty comments are apprecited. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-18-07 01:50 PM |
#145 |
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Pretty good thread here |
Lasher |
Jun-17-07 10:32 PM |
#135 |
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Provision: FAILURE TO OBEY LAWFUL ORDERS up to 5 years in prison. |
L. Coyote |
Jun-18-07 01:05 AM |
#137 |
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I also support complete amnesty and citizenship |
hogwyld |
Jun-18-07 02:39 AM |
#139 |
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The path to citizenship should not be delayed by the bill, but, should everyone |
L. Coyote |
Jun-19-07 08:38 AM |
#148 |
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