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Reply #164: It doesn't escape me. But there is the human side, and the legislative side. [View All]

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Donate to DU! Tue Jun-12-07 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #154
164. It doesn't escape me. But there is the human side, and the legislative side.
I'm not just a pro-choice American with a decent understanding of the politics and science of reproduction. This issue is framed in a political and legislative context. The political questions around abortion invariably involve people either legislatively making that decision for others or not, and I fall on the side of people being able to make those decisions for themselves. Unapologetically.

But before you extrapolate who I am and what I do or don't understand on the basis of this thread, let me say that I'm also a parent. I, too, know what it is to be overjoyed at seeing the little line on the pregnancy test. I know what a rush it is. I know what it means. But I also understand that in my own case, that joy was always compounded by the fact that this was a deliberate move and a very wanted development. It didn't have any "oh, fuck" component to it. It didn't have any "Shit, we don't have health insurance and we're about to be evicted" component. It didn't have "What are we gonna tell your psycho-ass dad who beats you?"

There IS a human component to all of this, certainly, and if we really want to speak out about "life" and protecting it and valuing it, in my opinion some of the things to do would be to tirelessly support a Single Payer Health Care System and a Liveable Minimum Wage, so the idea of a poor single woman bringing an unplanned kid into this world wouldn't be such a cruel joke in this country. We (and our allegedly pro-life compatriots across the aisle, in particular) would be out there working to make sure contraception was covered by health plans. That sex ed in schools was reality, and not abstinence, based, and it included contraceptive availability. That the Birth Control Pill wasn't being held hostage by Jesus-drunk pharmacists, and instead was available OTC.

But I want to make one point exceptionally clear. First off, "We" don't "lose on this issue". That is a media-spun lie that goes along with this bullshit about the all-powerful "values voter". The American People are overwhelmingly pro-choice. That is a FACT. "We lose on this issue"? Who says? CNN? Fuck 'em. I was at the March for Women's lives in DC in April of 2004... 1.2 Million Americans Showed up, and it was the Largest Peaceable Gathering on The Mall In American History. CNN blew off the march and spent the day chasing around drunk Bush voters at a car race in a quest to profile the "Nascar Voter". The crap about how "we" "lose" because of the pro-choicers, or the gays, or the atheists is a lie. That's all it is- it's just a bald-faced LIE.

We WIN on this issue.

Not only that, but (as the Terri Schiavo fiasco proved to the GOP) the American People are far more socially libertarian than the conventional wisdom waterheads want to give them credit for. Where we fail, if at all, is not by being "too" stridently in favor of individual freedom and liberty, we fail by not being consistently and strongly enough in favor of them.

If anything, we "lose" on not standing up strongly enough for the very powerful mind-your-own-business keep-your-personal-views-out-of-my-shit streak in the American Electorate. In My Opinion.

Peace.
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  We Had Abortions Madspirit  Jun-09-07 08:16 PM   #0 
   Nice  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 08:22 PM   #1 
   Thanks for taking my suggestion & Thanks for posting the link.  IndyOp   Jun-09-07 08:24 PM   #2 
   Point Taken and Remedied..Thanks...  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 08:26 PM   #3 
   delete posted in wrong place  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jun-09-07 08:59 PM   #15 
   This is so true  FloridaJudy   Jun-10-07 02:46 AM   #83 
   No time to read this now... but a K&R  PeaceNikki   Jun-09-07 08:27 PM   #4 
   Kick!  loyalsister   Jun-09-07 08:35 PM   #5 
   k&r  xchrom   Jun-09-07 08:35 PM   #6 
   Flame away but I don't think its anything to brag or boast about.  Peregrine Took   Jun-09-07 08:39 PM   #7 
   That's why it's called CHOICE  Bjornsdotter   Jun-09-07 08:47 PM   #8 
   The point is not to brag or boast.  Left Is Write   Jun-09-07 08:49 PM   #10 
   Exactly n/t  Bjornsdotter   Jun-09-07 08:51 PM   #12 
   Nicely Put...n/t  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:06 PM   #20 
   Yes. Women's lives are  shimmergal   Jun-10-07 01:01 AM   #64 
   The "humanize" aspect works with any minority issue.....  avrdream   Jun-10-07 05:00 AM   #85 
   Very well put  gollygee   Jun-10-07 11:18 AM   #99 
   You're response makes no sense.  drm604   Jun-09-07 08:53 PM   #13 
   For non-violent people its the only way to live a truly principled life, in my  Peregrine Took   Jun-09-07 09:10 PM   #23 
      We Do Protect All Life  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:15 PM   #25 
      ...and actually  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:18 PM   #26 
      "Liberalism" that allows people the choice of a legal vs illegal abortion?  uppityperson   Jun-09-07 09:22 PM   #31 
      psst, if you don't want to be flamed, don't start post with "flame away"  uppityperson   Jun-09-07 09:24 PM   #32 
      Please realize that you are free to live your  femrap   Jun-09-07 10:51 PM   #47 
      Or maybe we should say that what people do with their own bodies isn't anyone else's  impeachdubya   Jun-10-07 12:44 AM   #60 
         Yep....those folks sure seem to have the  femrap   Jun-10-07 01:58 PM   #107 
            You just described my Mother perfectly.  DKRC   Jun-10-07 06:45 PM   #123 
               I'm sorry to hear that....  femrap   Jun-10-07 08:59 PM   #137 
                  Thanks, but having her made me an excellent Mom!  DKRC   Jun-10-07 10:47 PM   #139 
                     There is alot to said for  femrap   Jun-11-07 08:59 AM   #148 
      Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-10-07 12:27 AM   #53 
      but lord help us if we harm a stem cell............ HA! Welcome to DU!  Veganistan   Jun-10-07 01:12 AM   #68 
         k n/t  twenty4blackbirds   Jun-10-07 02:11 AM   #79 
      So, uh, I take it you think sperms and unfertilized eggs should have rights under the 14th amendment  impeachdubya   Jun-10-07 12:37 AM   #57 
      That's because anti-choice by its very nature is not inclusive.  grace0418   Jun-10-07 12:48 AM   #61 
      I don't think that he will ever need to get one anyway.  NCevilDUer   Jun-10-07 01:12 AM   #69 
      Well, since he or she said they wouldn't want that on their conscience I feel okay  grace0418   Jun-10-07 01:23 AM   #71 
      poster complained elsewhere of menopausal symptoms.  uppityperson   Jun-10-07 01:25 AM   #73 
      Yeah, I always shake my head  tofurkey   Jun-10-07 04:47 PM   #118 
      What, exactly, would a non-kneejerk reaction look like?  drm604   Jun-10-07 02:33 AM   #81 
      I like how that poster started with "flame away", then complains is getting flamed.  uppityperson   Jun-10-07 02:39 AM   #82 
      It's not "pro-life"  Le Taz Hot   Jun-10-07 11:17 AM   #98 
      Anti having the choice of getting a legal abortion rather than illegal one.  uppityperson   Jun-10-07 02:07 PM   #108 
      I prefer pro-birth, since the actual birth is all they care about. After that, you're on your own.  KerrytravelersDU Moderator   Jun-11-07 06:16 PM   #161 
      Or the Seamless Garment Theory makes it easier not to have to think and to more easily  Iris   Jun-10-07 01:39 PM   #104 
      Ah, so then you're the spokesperson for all non-violent people  gollygee   Jun-10-07 07:14 PM   #126 
      And how many so-called "pro-lifers" would protect already living women?  WritingIsMyReligion   Jun-10-07 08:38 PM   #135 
      Ahem.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Jun-11-07 01:16 PM   #151 
   You say "the 'pro choice' people" as if you're holding something between your thumb and index  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Jun-09-07 08:55 PM   #14 
   Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-09-07 09:02 PM   #17 
   I've Had An Abortion  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:04 PM   #18 
   Acknowledging is not bragging or boasting.  uppityperson   Jun-09-07 09:07 PM   #21 
   I won't flame, but I'll share.  LWolf   Jun-09-07 09:20 PM   #28 
   Exactly!  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:30 PM   #35 
   A girl I knew tried to do just that, shot the 'baby" with her fathers gun  Veganistan   Jun-10-07 01:24 AM   #72 
   If I could recommend a reply -  waiting for hope   Jun-09-07 09:38 PM   #40 
   Thank you  JNelson6563   Jun-10-07 07:31 AM   #88 
   Wow!  Le Taz Hot   Jun-10-07 11:21 AM   #100 
   Did you read anything posted? There is no bragging. Your comment makes no sense and is, in itself,  KerrytravelersDU Moderator   Jun-09-07 09:20 PM   #29 
   I had an abortion 29 years ago and I am glad.  roody   Jun-09-07 09:28 PM   #33 
   Yeah, (some of) what the newbie said  sampsonblk   Jun-09-07 09:28 PM   #34 
   I Cheer About Being Alive  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:32 PM   #36 
   And self-determination.  Lars39   Jun-09-07 09:34 PM   #38 
   *Always*?  Lars39   Jun-09-07 09:32 PM   #37 
   Choosing a legal vs an illegal abortion is unfortunate?  uppityperson   Jun-09-07 09:37 PM   #39 
   Never-nt  sampsonblk   Jun-10-07 02:36 PM   #111 
      abortion is a complicated issue, Choice is not.  uppityperson   Jun-10-07 03:07 PM   #114 
   Always Unfortunate?  Bjornsdotter   Jun-09-07 11:07 PM   #50 
   Do you have a uterus? If not, why is it any of your business AT ALL if someone else who DOES  impeachdubya   Jun-10-07 12:40 AM   #58 
   Agreed.  Umbram   Jun-10-07 04:16 PM   #117 
   I am hoping you forgot the sarcasm smiley.  uppityperson   Jun-10-07 04:59 PM   #119 
   Here's the thing.  Umbram   Jun-10-07 07:13 PM   #125 
      Gotcha and I agree  uppityperson   Jun-10-07 07:18 PM   #128 
      We are on the same page. What you say here is my view as well.  impeachdubya   Jun-11-07 12:10 AM   #142 
   Ha, Ha. Way to deliberately misconstrue what I said.  impeachdubya   Jun-11-07 12:09 AM   #141 
   All too easy - because I vote  sampsonblk   Jun-10-07 08:33 PM   #134 
      So, a woman exercising reproductive choice over her own body is like a bank robber...  impeachdubya   Jun-11-07 12:01 AM   #140 
         Not at all  sampsonblk   Jun-11-07 09:36 AM   #149 
            Maybe you'll ignore my questions about the bank robber because you can't answer them  impeachdubya   Jun-11-07 12:18 PM   #150 
               You win  sampsonblk   Jun-11-07 05:00 PM   #154 
                  It doesn't escape me. But there is the human side, and the legislative side.  impeachdubya   Jun-12-07 12:13 AM   #164 
   its always unfortunate  Scout   Jun-10-07 06:31 PM   #121 
   Would you also characterize it as unfortunate..  girl gone mad   Jun-10-07 08:41 PM   #136 
   I'll say it loud and proud!  bicentennial_baby   Jun-09-07 09:55 PM   #42 
   So share your opinion, rather than your disdain  WakeMeUp   Jun-09-07 11:05 PM   #49 
   Ignorance is bliss. It's so fun to look down your nose with such disdain.  PeaceNikki   Jun-09-07 11:07 PM   #51 
   BULLSHIT. MOST AMERICANS are PRO CHOICE.  impeachdubya   Jun-10-07 12:36 AM   #56 
   I have room for your opinion as long as you keep it the fu ^k away from my uterus.  Veganistan   Jun-10-07 01:06 AM   #65 
   Point that finger somewhere else  Ellen Forradalom   Jun-10-07 02:14 AM   #80 
   I think women sharing their story is not "bragging" and if anything  bleedingheart   Jun-10-07 08:21 AM   #89 
   Wow, you really don't fucking get it, do you?  Vickers   Jun-10-07 10:00 AM   #93 
   No one's bragging or boasting about having had an abortion. They are stating a fact of their  sinkingfeeling   Jun-10-07 10:05 AM   #94 
   Oh, there's room for opinions  dancingAlone   Jun-11-07 12:50 AM   #143 
   Here's An Opinion - Don't Have An Abortion  REP   Jun-11-07 05:51 AM   #147 
   The site whose name we dare not speak is up and running  dogdayDU Moderator   Jun-11-07 05:02 PM   #155 
   Kick and rec  Bjornsdotter   Jun-09-07 08:47 PM   #9 
   Thank you  ismnotwasm   Jun-09-07 08:50 PM   #11 
   It's an "issue" that should be a non-issue. Control of one's own body is a basic human right. K&R  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jun-09-07 09:00 PM   #16 
   I love ex-Catholics  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:05 PM   #19 
   Well, I'm an ex-Catholic too.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jun-09-07 09:08 PM   #22 
   My Favorite  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:13 PM   #24 
   Yes, indeed.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jun-09-07 09:20 PM   #27 
      Exactly!...n/t  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 09:21 PM   #30 
   Edit after the time limit. Should have been 63 not 73.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Jun-10-07 01:10 AM   #67 
   I don't think you can be an ex Catholic. A recoverig Catholic maybe  sfexpat2000   Jun-10-07 12:34 AM   #55 
      Formerly Catholic friend describes himself as  Tansy_Gold   Jun-10-07 10:59 AM   #95 
         Okay!  sfexpat2000   Jun-10-07 01:33 PM   #103 
   ex-catholics unite! me too -- we're a special breed  nashville_brook   Jun-09-07 09:53 PM   #41 
   Yes, every time my husband's VERY Catholic family talks about mass or some sacrament  grace0418   Jun-10-07 12:56 AM   #63 
   Couldn't agree more. It boggles the mind that we are even still discussing this  grace0418   Jun-10-07 12:51 AM   #62 
   K & R..for all of us who have had to make the difficult choice, but grateful it was there to make.  BrklynLiberal   Jun-09-07 10:08 PM   #43 
   Kick & rec.  Cabcere   Jun-09-07 10:16 PM   #44 
   Kicking on Principle...n/t  Madspirit   Jun-09-07 10:26 PM   #45 
   thanks for the link.  ellenfl   Jun-09-07 10:36 PM   #46 
   K & R..  femrap   Jun-09-07 10:59 PM   #48 
   "And I know  Le Taz Hot   Jun-10-07 11:27 AM   #101 
      BINGO!!!  Karenina   Jun-10-07 11:34 AM   #102 
      I believe Oprah discussed it once and there  femrap   Jun-10-07 01:54 PM   #106 
   I was barely making ends meet when I had mine...  fudge stripe cookays   Jun-10-07 12:08 AM   #52 
   If they're really worried about it, they can support a SPHC system and a liveable min. wage.  impeachdubya   Jun-10-07 12:42 AM   #59 
      It's always struck me as incredibly odd that right-wing GOP fundies don't want  grace0418   Jun-10-07 01:08 AM   #66 
         Not only do they not want birth control available, they'd like to outlaw it, as well.  impeachdubya   Jun-10-07 01:13 AM   #70 
         Outlawing all sex beyond marital/procreation is absolutely impossible. It would be  grace0418   Jun-10-07 01:27 AM   #74 
            All the more reason, it gives them something to "fight" that they can never stop.  impeachdubya   Jun-10-07 04:45 AM   #84 
         Yep. They are a bunch of sickos  Erika   Jun-10-07 01:35 AM   #77 
         EXACTLY.  fudge stripe cookays   Jun-10-07 11:13 AM   #96 
         ha! And I guess guaranteed, paid maternity leave is way out of the question!  Iris   Jun-10-07 01:45 PM   #105 
   Kicked and recommended.  Kool Kitty   Jun-10-07 12:34 AM   #54 
   K and R n/t  Erika   Jun-10-07 01:31 AM   #75 
   K&R  Morgana LaFey   Jun-10-07 01:32 AM   #76 
   Kicked  Heathen57   Jun-10-07 01:44 AM   #78 
   Done!  calimary   Jun-10-07 05:06 AM   #86 
   Keep it LEGAL  Duppers   Jun-10-07 05:31 AM   #87 
   I'm here, Duppers  dancingAlone   Jun-10-07 08:25 PM   #133 
      I remember reading about your mother's story  renate   Jun-11-07 05:13 PM   #157 
   Because of the right to choose, my daughter is here today  bleedingheart   Jun-10-07 08:27 AM   #90 
   In the 50s my grandmother killed herself because she was pregnant again at 45  LosinIt   Jun-10-07 09:48 AM   #91 
   Oh God, Los.  fudge stripe cookays   Jun-10-07 11:16 AM   #97 
   The Idea Of Sending One's Name (Signature) To The WH, Stating That They've Had An Abortion?  Dinger   Jun-10-07 09:54 AM   #92 
   This is an Important Point--This was a Really Brave Act; They Were Under Threat  Hidden Stillness   Jun-10-07 02:36 PM   #110 
   If You're Going to be THAT paranoid  Madspirit   Jun-10-07 03:03 PM   #113 
      Well, I Don't Want To Make It Any Easier For Them Than It Already Is (nt)  Dinger   Jun-10-07 10:16 PM   #138 
      Maybe the paranoia would be more reasonable if held against the "Army of God" types.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Jun-11-07 01:22 PM   #153 
   If white concervative males had abortions, we'd have clinics on every corner  shance   Jun-10-07 02:30 PM   #109 
   Great post. And:  BlueIris   Jun-10-07 02:55 PM   #112 
   Time For a Kick...  Madspirit   Jun-10-07 03:19 PM   #115 
   Signed the petition.  Luminous Animal   Jun-10-07 03:37 PM   #116 
   I had an Ectopic Pregnancy in a "christian" hospital in 1983  HockeyMom   Jun-10-07 06:25 PM   #120 
   I can't even imagine what a horrible experience that must have been, HockeyMom.  Cabcere   Jun-10-07 06:39 PM   #122 
   I too had an ectopic  dancingAlone   Jun-11-07 03:00 AM   #146 
   kick  FLDem5   Jun-10-07 06:48 PM   #124 
   Can I start one that says  undeterred   Jun-10-07 07:17 PM   #127 
   Yup  dancingAlone   Jun-11-07 02:00 AM   #144 
   K&R!  DKRC   Jun-10-07 07:18 PM   #129 
   Done + a Kick  northamericancitizen   Jun-10-07 07:25 PM   #130 
   Thank you to my mom...  silverlib   Jun-10-07 08:14 PM   #131 
   Thank you for telling us about her. My mom turned librul over Choice.  uppityperson   Jun-10-07 08:21 PM   #132 
   My SO and I support abortion...  Xenotime   Jun-11-07 02:45 AM   #145 
   kick  Elspeth   Jun-11-07 01:21 PM   #152 
   Nothing to be proud about at all n.t  StudentsMustUniteNow   Jun-11-07 05:04 PM   #156 
   Your insistence on trying to shame women is deplorable.  Lars39   Jun-11-07 05:18 PM   #158 
      Don't force your moral system on me  StudentsMustUniteNow   Jun-11-07 05:22 PM   #159 
         Yes, you are trying to shame women.  Lars39   Jun-11-07 05:42 PM   #160 
   kicking on principle  Madspirit   Jun-11-07 06:53 PM   #162 
      Is the surgical procedure  dancingAlone   Jun-11-07 11:27 PM   #163 
 

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