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How women activists are silenced [View All]

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noamnety (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Wed May-30-07 10:42 AM
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How women activists are silenced
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Edited on Wed May-30-07 10:57 AM by lwfern

... Sierra had been receiving increasingly abusive comments on her website, Creating Passionate Users, over the previous year, but had not expected them to turn so violent - her attackers not only verbally assaulting her ("fuck off you boring slut . . . I hope someone slits your throat") but also posting photomontages of her on other sites: one with a noose next to her head and another depicting her screaming with a thong covering her face. Since she wrote about the abuse on her website, the harassment has increased. "People are posting all my private data online everywhere - social-security number, and home address - a retaliation for speaking out."

While no one could deny that men experience abuse online, the sheer vitriol directed at women has become impossible to ignore. Extreme instances of stalking, death threats and hate speech are now prevalent, as well as all the everyday harassment that women have traditionally faced in the outside world - cat-calls, for instance, or being "rated" on our looks. It's all very far from the utopian ideals that greeted the dawn of the web - the idea of it as a new, egalitarian public space, where men and women from all races, and of all sexualities, could mix without prejudice.

(snip)

Jill Filipovic, a 23-year-old law student who also writes on the popular blog, Feministe, recently had some photographs of her uploaded and subjected to abusive comments on an online forum for students in New York. "The people who were posting comments about me were speculating as to how many abortions I've had, and they talked about 'hate-fucking' me," says Filipovic. "I don't think a man would get that; the harassment of women is far more sexualised - men may be told that they're idiots, but they aren't called 'whores'."

(snip)

One website, run by law professor and occasional New York Times columnist Ann Althouse, devoted an entire article to how I was "posing" so as to "make breasts as obvious as possible". The post, titled "Let's take a closer look at those breasts," ended up with over 500 comments. Most were about my body, my perceived whorishness, and how I couldn't possibly be a good feminist because I had the gall to show up to a meeting with my breasts in tow. One commenter even created a limerick about me giving oral sex. Althouse herself said that I should have "worn a beret . . . a blue dress would have been good too". All this on the basis of a photograph of me in a crew-neck sweater from Gap.


http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2051580,...

The emails began, the countless pages of hate accrued beneath the mail slot. The death threats mounted, the graphic descriptions of what they would do to me when they found me continued to escalate. I tried to call for help but everyone kept telling me that the locks on the door were secure and that there was nothing to be done for me.

But the thing is that I didn’t feel secure and the locks didn’t feel safe and I knew that it would only take one of them to get through the door. Despite everyone telling me that the screaming men were harmless THEY were saying that they weren’t harmless. And who you gonna believe? The man who is holding the snarling dog at bay? Who is telling you that he’s actually a pussycat? Or the snarling dog who is snapping at your legs and threatening to rip your throat out if it gets loose?

I believed the dog.

It was only after the death threats reached a level that began to involve my children that I finally balked. I could no longer hear the gentle scratching of the other women writing in their own books, all I could hear was the screaming and violence outside this small space. The violence that I desperately wanted to shield the others from.


http://bitingbeaver.blogspot.com /

Both of these predate the recent issue with Cindy Sheehan.

I saw Ann Wright speak last night. She said Cindy was also getting these sorts of emails - the kind that are reminiscent in tone of lynchings - those that not only disagree with her position, but spew misogynistic hate speech and threats at her. Every day, her inbox was flooded with these. Her friends had convinced her to stop reading her mail.

There was a woman at the event last night passing out fliers to women, trying to get women to run for office. I handed mine back, with the "you must be ought of your mind" look that I suck at hiding.

There is a special kind of hatred reserved for women who speak out. It's ugly to witness on DU, and I witness it every day here - as I do on nearly every blog I visit, with a few notable exceptions - and it doesn't matter whether those blogs are political in nature, or tied to graphic design ... it just doesn't matter. It targets women who are republicans, who are democrats, who are spouses, and pundits and independents. It ties hatred to every aspect of their physical female bodies, from Laura Bush to Janet Reno to Chelsea Clinton to Ann Coulter. We hold up men who are long time civil rights leaders as heroes, persistent enduring never tiring heroes who are always at the forefront of the struggle, and we embrace them. I have seen threads here canonizing men who made their fortunes specifically from the degradation and exploitation of women. And when women speak out, they are allowed their 15 minutes of fame, MAYBE, or maybe not, maybe they hold a sign at a protest for 5 minutes, and then they are accused of being a whore - and their sexuality is attacked - and I am not even talking about Cindy Sheehan here.

What I'm getting at is that Cindy Sheehan is not unique. This is part of a system, and it's a system that encourages men AND women, on all sides of the political fences, to attack women AS women, to threaten them, to demean them AS women, in order to get them to shut the hell up.

The abuse that Cindy has put up with - and I'm going to call it abuse, because it goes beyond "criticism" into flat out vile sexist abuse and threats designed to terrorize women who speak out - is rampant, is consistent with women's experiences once their voice starts to be heard, and is tolerated as "normal" - as a normal part of political discourse. For every woman like Cindy who is silenced - even temporarily, as I hope it will be - there are a hundred other women, maybe more, who are silenced, who won't run for office, who will avoid the spotlight, because they don't want to hear the nonstop sexist bullshit hatred and threats that comes with the territory.
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  How women activists are silenced lwfern  May-30-07 10:42 AM   #0 
   Good post -- k&r  LostinVA   May-30-07 10:43 AM   #1 
   Yes. K&R  sfexpat2000   May-30-07 10:44 AM   #2 
   Very nice post.  Horse with no Name   May-30-07 10:44 AM   #3 
   I can't imagine letting stuff people say to me on the Internet getting to me.  MookieWilson   May-30-07 10:45 AM   #4 
   It's not anonymous when they personally attack you. n/t  sfexpat2000   May-30-07 10:48 AM   #6 
   Yep  tavalon   May-31-07 05:13 AM   #279 
      Andy was sick...  Cassandra   May-31-07 04:08 PM   #361 
         And they thought because I was a woman that I would cave somehow.  sfexpat2000   Jun-01-07 09:27 PM   #425 
   No, you don't understand it.  lwfern   May-30-07 10:53 AM   # 
   Threats of sexual violence and sexual aggression are scary  LostinVA   May-30-07 10:59 AM   #16 
   Yes, it is scary. nt  MookieWilson   May-30-07 11:25 AM   #36 
   apologies  lwfern   May-30-07 12:17 PM   #58 
      You just wrote something very significant  Le Taz Hot   May-31-07 08:52 AM   #299 
   holy crap, seriously?  GloriaSmith   May-30-07 11:29 AM   #41 
   Yup  LostinVA   May-30-07 11:33 AM   #44 
   ...  Starbucks Anarchist   May-30-07 04:12 PM   #126 
   I agree with you.  Autobot77   May-30-07 09:39 PM   #221 
   LostinVA, sorry to hear that  smtpgirl   May-30-07 10:02 PM   #225 
   that's terrible........  Darth_Kitten   May-30-07 10:31 PM   #238 
   The thing is that it doesn't stay anonymous.  China_cat   May-30-07 11:24 AM   #33 
   I don't use my real name on the Internet. nt  MookieWilson   May-30-07 11:27 AM   #39 
   if you're posting at home or work, it doesn't matter what name you use  GloriaSmith   May-30-07 11:31 AM   #43 
   Do you really believe that protects you?  China_cat   May-30-07 11:42 AM   #47 
   There's no such thing as being completely safe. But, despite vigorous...  MookieWilson   May-30-07 11:44 AM   #48 
   this why woman are verbally acosted, TOTAL anonymity  smtpgirl   May-30-07 10:14 PM   #229 
   Once I posted on someone's blog and a rightwinger somehow found  Lydia Leftcoast   May-31-07 09:41 AM   # 
   Try getting them as a public figure  WilliamPitt   May-30-07 12:12 PM   #55 
   Deleted message  Name removed   May-31-07 04:02 PM   #359 
   .  bobbolink   May-31-07 04:54 PM   #370 
      . . .  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 04:58 PM   #373 
         .  bobbolink   May-31-07 05:08 PM   #380 
   Double post- delete  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 04:02 PM   #360 
   Mook, if you had a picture of you photoshopped with a noose 'round *your* neck  Book Lover   May-30-07 01:06 PM   #86 
   I didn't say it wouldn't upset me.  MookieWilson   May-30-07 03:06 PM   #109 
      I apologize for my assumption  Book Lover   May-30-07 03:14 PM   #114 
      Problemma nyet.  MookieWilson   May-30-07 03:27 PM   #116 
      I think one point the OP and cited article are trying to make...  TygrBrightDU Moderator   May-30-07 10:27 PM   #234 
   It's TERRORISM - and when they threaten you, your family and post...  Triana   May-30-07 03:46 PM   #121 
   Agreed Triana  smtpgirl   May-30-07 10:30 PM   #237 
   You're a man, you can't get it. What you're saying is like  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 03:56 PM   #358 
      Not so confusing. It has to do with whom one is identified with.  bobbolink   May-31-07 04:57 PM   #371 
   Feminism needs to be revived on a national scale.  rosesaylavee   May-30-07 10:46 AM   #5 
   sig line stuff  lwfern   May-30-07 11:04 PM   #251 
      Why is Democratic Underground permitting these comments?  defendandprotect   May-31-07 08:33 PM   #397 
      According to the DU Rules  lwfern   May-31-07 09:07 PM   #398 
      The offending avatar is removed.  rosesaylavee   Jun-01-07 12:21 AM   #406 
         Thank You!  lwfern   Jun-01-07 01:21 AM   #410 
   Those in leadership positions set the tone,  Lars39   May-30-07 10:49 AM   #7 
   You're so right, but of course it won't be acknowledged.  bobbolink   May-30-07 05:18 PM   #141 
   Agree about DU leadership as well as the use of 'bitch'. Few female avatars. nt  MookieWilson   May-30-07 06:00 PM   #165 
   ...few female avatars....  sheeptramp   May-30-07 08:59 PM   #215 
   A lot of people have left DU because the  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 04:11 PM   #363 
      Then *I'll* say it.  bobbolink   May-31-07 05:00 PM   #375 
   I'd recommend this mulitiple times if I could  Warpy   May-30-07 10:50 AM   #8 
   Good post n/t  LostinVA   May-30-07 11:00 AM   #17 
   As the OP pointed out, women also engage in this behavior. I remember a thread  John Q. Citizen   May-31-07 12:50 PM   #341 
   A Favorite Put-Down: "She's Shrill"  vanlassie   May-30-07 10:53 AM   #9 
   Check out the way the dust up between O'Donnell and Hasel back was described.  MookieWilson   May-30-07 11:45 AM   #49 
   Yeah add Rosie to the list for sure  moonlady0623   May-30-07 05:17 PM   #140 
   hey they even called Howard Dean shrill  truedelphi   May-30-07 01:42 PM   #99 
   Yep, it makes sense to offer up truth for truth  tavalon   May-31-07 05:17 AM   #281 
   O'Leilly uses that one all the time.  Oregonian   May-30-07 05:06 PM   #137 
   That guy is the physical embodiment of "shrill".  Telly Savalas   Jun-01-07 09:52 PM   #429 
   Calling someone a whore, for one  AnnieBW   May-30-07 11:22 PM   #252 
   I have only enough time to recommend this post and kick it  Cerridwen   May-30-07 10:53 AM   #10 
   Women can be like Boudica (probably called an A. W. by the Romans in AD 60)  bambino   May-30-07 10:55 AM   #11 
   Boudica does rule!  LostinVA   May-30-07 11:01 AM   #19 
   K&R!! bravo!  unpossibles   May-30-07 10:55 AM   #12 
   Can we count on you standing up to other men here at DU when they  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 09:41 PM   #222 
      You can count on me, but...  Umbram   May-31-07 02:30 AM   #276 
         You know, you are probably right  Morgana LaFey   Jun-01-07 12:52 AM   #407 
            Ok, I think I'm clear.  Umbram   Jun-01-07 06:34 PM   #420 
               You don't believe in a "historical reality" of a movement --  Morgana LaFey   Jun-01-07 09:48 PM   #428 
                  I'm sorry.  Umbram   Jun-01-07 10:29 PM   #430 
                     You and Douglas Feith --  Morgana LaFey   Jun-02-07 10:16 PM   #432 
                        Yep, I agree  Umbram   Jun-02-07 11:37 PM   #433 
   Do You TRULY Believe The Recent Issues With Cindy Have Had ANYTHING To Do With Her Being Female?  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   May-30-07 10:56 AM   #13 
   Consistently invalidating, maligning and ridiculing women is abusive.  Lars39   May-30-07 11:02 AM   #21 
   So You TRULY Believe The Abuse Towards Her Was Because She Was A Woman? Really?  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   May-30-07 11:10 AM   #27 
   There is an entire Snopes page devoted to lies about her status as Casey's "Mother"  lwfern   May-30-07 11:21 AM   #32 
   No, Not By A Long Shot.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   May-30-07 11:27 AM   #38 
      The topic isn't WHY women are silenced...  Psyop Samurai   May-30-07 12:34 PM   #69 
      Hey - excellent response  lukasahero   May-30-07 04:08 PM   #125 
      I note with some sadness  hfojvt   Jun-01-07 02:54 PM   #419 
      you can only see motive, not opportunity? LOL. guys pick on who they can get away with it easiest.  bettyellen   May-30-07 07:06 PM   #179 
      Straining at gnats while swallowing camels.  urgk   May-30-07 07:10 PM   #182 
         excellent points  zippy890   May-30-07 07:21 PM   #184 
         I think you've hit the nail right on the head.  Cabcere   May-31-07 02:00 PM   #353 
   Women are considered easier targets. Here's an example.  MookieWilson   May-30-07 11:24 AM   #34 
   Yeah Right. Tell That To Kerry, Or Dean, Or Gore, Or The Slew Of Others. n/t  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   May-30-07 11:28 AM   #40 
   oh, i love the "men are victims" card.. those who play it cannot see the irony.  bettyellen   May-30-07 06:44 PM   #176 
   I wish you could be a woman for a few months.  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 04:31 PM   #365 
      that has been done in movies and TV  hfojvt   Jun-01-07 02:36 PM   #417 
   Cycling is a good analogy  eridani   May-30-07 05:20 PM   #142 
   walking down the street alone has become problematic, and the men i know don;t see it  bettyellen   May-30-07 07:01 PM   #178 
   I almost posted about that a few days ago.  lwfern   May-30-07 07:36 PM   #186 
   yeah, biking got real dangerous... to many cute little swerves toward me, startling honks  bettyellen   May-30-07 07:54 PM   #193 
   Yes, I got honked at on my bike by a guy "just being friendly." I read him the riot act about ...  MookieWilson   May-30-07 10:24 PM   #231 
      drivers do it to me all the time  hfojvt   Jun-01-07 01:56 PM   #414 
   Crap parenting is in the eye of the worried parent.  puebloknot   Jun-01-07 10:58 PM   #431 
   Something to try...  urgk   May-30-07 07:44 PM   #189 
   my next phone will have video becuase of you, LOL... and welcome to DU !  bettyellen   May-30-07 07:59 PM   #196 
   That's a wonderful idea, with the ADDED benefit that it might have  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 09:47 PM   #223 
   Men are like observers trying to document the behavior of nocturnal animals  eridani   May-30-07 11:32 PM   #255 
   How to educate men on this topic:  Lydia Leftcoast   May-31-07 10:00 AM   #318 
      Good idea.  bobbolink   May-31-07 05:02 PM   #377 
   Even driving is not safe. Many men think they have the right  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 04:41 PM   #366 
   This is true. Men are also, in general, more aggressive towards women than men  jpgray   May-30-07 08:01 PM   #198 
   i've noticed with guys at work they can be competative assholes with men and get over it- like it's  bettyellen   May-30-07 08:12 PM   #202 
      To be fair, men can also be terrified of women  jpgray   May-30-07 08:21 PM   #204 
         swag's a liar, i'm not that scary at all. hardly much at all.  bettyellen   May-30-07 08:27 PM   #207 
            Can't compete with that. Two drinks and I'm anybody's.  jpgray   May-30-07 08:32 PM   #210 
               that's handy information  bettyellen   May-30-07 09:22 PM   #219 
                  Remember as a man I think I'm socially obligated to compete  jpgray   May-31-07 01:11 AM   #271 
   And do men ever get told by total strangers to "Smile!" nt  raccoon   May-31-07 09:07 AM   #302 
   Yes. Although as best as I can gather, not as often as women do. On the  John Q. Citizen   May-31-07 01:28 PM   #347 
   That was my experience as a college professor, too  Lydia Leftcoast   May-31-07 09:56 AM   #316 
      It often depends on whose ox is being gored. Just as majority ethnic groups  John Q. Citizen   May-31-07 01:22 PM   #346 
   I think, being from an era when women were expected to be hard working but not heard  truedelphi   May-30-07 01:48 PM   #101 
   Yes, And You;d Be Blind To Miss It... she's menopausal, shrill, too emotional, a drama queen....  bettyellen   May-30-07 06:36 PM   #174 
   To put what others have said another way...  urgk   May-30-07 07:17 PM   #183 
   Of course the person you are responding to questions this...  bliss_eternal   May-30-07 05:39 PM   #155 
   Of course they do  LostinVA   May-30-07 11:03 AM   #22 
   Not the issues, but the attacks on her.  NCevilDUer   May-30-07 11:40 AM   #45 
   "whore"  WilliamPitt   May-30-07 12:13 PM   #56 
   I Believe There To Be A Difference Between The Root Of Anger And The Expression Of It.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   May-30-07 12:20 PM   #63 
      I believe you have no clue what it means to be an outspoken female  buddyhollysghost   May-30-07 01:37 PM   #97 
      Has no intention of trying, either.  Lars39   May-30-07 01:55 PM   #104 
         Oh, see, he's the voice of authority here on DU because he uses capital letters  Oregonian   May-30-07 05:08 PM   #138 
            LOLZOMC  Moochy   May-30-07 11:49 PM   #259 
      I hear ya  BoneDaddy   May-31-07 07:58 AM   #291 
         My comments are stupid?  buddyhollysghost   May-31-07 11:54 AM   #333 
   YES! same with Rosie, same with Code Pink, same with Jane Fonda  nashville_brook   May-30-07 12:20 PM   #62 
   The Issues, No, The Attacks, Yes  Crisco   May-30-07 12:44 PM   #74 
   Not just women, I noticed this on an open board  yurbud   May-30-07 10:59 AM   #14 
   You're right. It's not just women.  sfexpat2000   May-30-07 11:08 AM   #25 
   ideas targeted and shouted off the stage  yurbud   May-30-07 11:24 AM   #35 
   CASE IN POINT: check out some of the anti-Nader posters like this guy:  yurbud   May-30-07 12:38 PM   #70 
      and the same guy anti-Chavez:  yurbud   May-30-07 12:41 PM   #73 
      The anti-Chavez stuff isn't SEXUALIZED n/t  eridani   May-30-07 05:22 PM   #145 
      yeah, just the same level of venom. Also, the sexual angle is not as insulting to guys  yurbud   May-30-07 09:20 PM   #218 
         The reason it isn't as insulting--  eridani   May-30-07 11:47 PM   #258 
            that's why racist comments bother blacks but not really whites  yurbud   May-31-07 02:05 AM   #275 
      "Out of Context"  Moochy   May-31-07 01:29 AM   #272 
      The anti-Nader stuff isn't SEXUALIZED n/t  eridani   May-30-07 05:22 PM   #144 
      you mean Ralph "I would rather have George Bush than Al Gore" Nader?  northzax   May-31-07 10:39 AM   #327 
         Wrong. You cannot prove that Nader voters would have voted for Gore  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 04:51 PM   #368 
            George Bush won florida, in the final count  northzax   May-31-07 05:11 PM   #381 
   Recommended. Post says it all. No comment necessary. n/t  sicksicksick_N_tired   May-30-07 10:59 AM   #15 
   k, r, and thanks, lwfern. It takes courage these days just to put  coffeenap   May-30-07 11:00 AM   #18 
   Excellent, much needed post. K&R.  Dhalgren   May-30-07 11:01 AM   #20 
   or dismiss us with the term "bitch"  Connonym   May-30-07 11:03 AM   #23 
   My Dad said that about to my mother HRC ONE time  LostinVA   May-30-07 11:09 AM   #26 
   Yay Mom! nt  MookieWilson   May-30-07 03:07 PM   #110 
   BINGO! Our language makes it easier to criticize women. There is no male version of 'bitch'.  MookieWilson   May-30-07 11:26 AM   #37 
   Not only that, it works both ways (two way street)  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 10:02 PM   #226 
   Quite the opposite. Most men are pure cowards - attacking those they KNOW they can get away with....  BlooInBloo   May-30-07 11:29 AM   #42 
   Fear?  BoneDaddy   May-30-07 08:19 PM   #203 
      Of course you wouldn't trust her with your emotional self --  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 10:07 PM   #227 
      Deleted message  Name removed   May-31-07 07:41 AM   #286 
         Yeah, that's not at all misogynistic  Connonym   May-31-07 10:09 AM   #321 
      Sometimes Bitch is the best word for the context.  lwfern   May-30-07 10:31 PM   #239 
      exactly as you say  Connonym   May-30-07 10:40 PM   #243 
      Thank you, lwfern for this very important thread...  prairierose   May-31-07 10:26 AM   #325 
         Of course words have power! As I said earlier, verbal abuse is often the precursor of physical  bobbolink   May-31-07 05:07 PM   #378 
      You say word police I say improve your vocabulary  Connonym   May-30-07 10:38 PM   #241 
         So then doesn't that make you a hypocrite  BoneDaddy   May-31-07 07:46 AM   #288 
            re-read my post  Connonym   May-31-07 09:59 AM   #317 
            And here we have a man coming along  lwfern   May-31-07 10:18 AM   #324 
   I think the key to change in this country is through women  bambino   May-30-07 11:07 AM   #24 
   So your'e vote is for Hillary in 2008?  smtpgirl   May-30-07 10:59 PM   #248 
      Guess what, Hillary isn't the only woman in the US  Connonym   May-31-07 10:03 AM   #319 
         But I do believe in a majority of white men  smtpgirl   May-31-07 11:06 PM   #403 
   k and r  cwydro   May-30-07 11:13 AM   #28 
   Sadly, there are still many men who...  Mr_Jefferson_24   May-30-07 11:14 AM   #29 
   Yes. On Trek boards they have a problem with "Janeway rape" threads.  MookieWilson   May-30-07 11:40 AM   #46 
   Personal experience with a local humanist chapter 20+ years ago.  no_hypocrisy   May-30-07 11:15 AM   #30 
   That thinking is prevalent in more of society than just philanthropic groups.  Clark2008   May-30-07 11:53 AM   #50 
      Yeah, I know. It's like people who don't know me always address me as "Mrs." as in their  no_hypocrisy   May-30-07 11:59 AM   #52 
         I know! I usually carry the money in our relationship and they  Clark2008   May-30-07 12:17 PM   #59 
            When I graduated from one of the last independent, all-women's colleges,  no_hypocrisy   May-30-07 12:23 PM   #67 
   Salon did a series of arcticles about this a month or two ago.  Iris   May-30-07 11:17 AM   #31 
   Organized harassment and "gang" or cause stalking is essentially being funded by this Administration  shance   May-30-07 11:58 AM   #51 
   um, the web can be quite anonymous too  IronLionZion   May-30-07 12:04 PM   #53 
   See post 55  WilliamPitt   May-30-07 12:13 PM   #57 
   point taken Will, I sure as hell don't want to be a public figure  IronLionZion   May-30-07 12:18 PM   #61 
   You see a pattern there?  lwfern   May-30-07 12:20 PM   #64 
   Well, that's the wrong way to do things  IronLionZion   May-30-07 01:35 PM   #95 
   Exhibit A: "Pink Tutus"  sam kane   May-30-07 04:01 PM   #123 
      Exhibit B: "Panty-waisted. Bitches."  lwfern   May-31-07 08:23 AM   #296 
      Your voice is so strong and clear--I'm so glad you're here!  bobbolink   May-31-07 06:33 PM   #391 
      Exhibit C: "That Crazy Old Bitch"  lwfern   May-31-07 09:22 PM   #400 
         Exhibit D: "She's a whore"  Imagevision   May-31-07 11:09 PM   #404 
   notice that the abuse is couched in FEMINIZING the person -- gender is the weapon  nashville_brook   May-30-07 12:23 PM   #66 
   The terms used to "insult" liberal men are terms reserved for denigrating women.  terisan   May-30-07 12:50 PM   #76 
   don't believe for one second it is only right wing men  VelmaD   May-30-07 12:53 PM   #79 
   I was wondering whether or not to post this very thing  LostinVA   May-30-07 01:52 PM   #102 
      been taking a bit of a break...  VelmaD   May-30-07 02:21 PM   #105 
         It's so easy, eh?  LostinVA   May-30-07 02:26 PM   #106 
   Even on this board...  MookieWilson   May-30-07 03:29 PM   #117 
   "girlie men"  bbgrunt   May-30-07 03:15 PM   #115 
   Ah yes, perfect example - probably not in the way you meant though...  lukasahero   May-30-07 04:15 PM   #128 
      The inverse of that is to "compliment" a woman by saying she "has balls."  MookieWilson   May-30-07 10:25 PM   #232 
         "He's so articulate..."  lukasahero   May-31-07 09:19 AM   #306 
   "Male activists get called "pussies", "fags", "bitches", "fairies" "  lukasahero   May-30-07 04:19 PM   #130 
      Well said  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 10:21 PM   #230 
      Deleted message  Name removed   May-31-07 09:38 AM   #311 
      What are you talking about?  IronLionZion   May-31-07 11:32 AM   #331 
         Unless you are a woman of color AND a lesbian  lwfern   May-31-07 01:40 PM   #350 
            and disabled  Oak2004   May-31-07 03:18 PM   #356 
               Thanks for the reminder.  lwfern   May-31-07 03:52 PM   #357 
      men get rape threats too, hell men get raped too  IronLionZion   May-31-07 11:37 AM   #332 
         "Why I write not of men"  lwfern   May-31-07 12:27 PM   #338 
   K&R!  DKRC   May-30-07 12:10 PM   #54 
   and if the verbal abuse doesn't work out, escalation is real ala judy bari  pitohui   May-30-07 12:18 PM   #60 
   big k 'n r -- you nailed it.  nashville_brook   May-30-07 12:22 PM   #65 
   what you said  VelmaD   May-30-07 12:29 PM   #68 
   and my personal favorite "it happens to men, too"  lwfern   May-30-07 12:39 PM   #71 
      Ain't that the truth  LostinVA   May-30-07 01:52 PM   #103 
      and not just men, but important men -- "public figures" men,  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 10:28 PM   #236 
   Yep it happens  nadinbrzezinski   May-30-07 12:41 PM   #72 
   What kind of activist  MrPrax   May-30-07 12:45 PM   #75 
   true - men's war against women is alive and well  donsu   May-30-07 12:51 PM   #77 
   It happens in the workplace ALL THE TIME.  RevCheesehead   May-30-07 12:52 PM   #78 
   Excellent OP, thank you for posting this!  Spazito   May-30-07 12:54 PM   #80 
   K&R  petunia.here   May-30-07 12:57 PM   #81 
   It's Amazing, What Some People Think They Can Say To You When You Are A Female And Anti-War  maggiegault   May-30-07 12:57 PM   #82 
   and thanks for illustrating...  VelmaD   May-30-07 01:00 PM   #83 
      You're Very Welcome. It Isn't A Behavior Limited To GOP Idiots, Unfortunately.  maggiegault   May-30-07 01:04 PM   #85 
         Exactly. He did it because he could get away with it.  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 10:33 PM   #240 
            I Quit The Group, Even though I had been one of their most active members.  maggiegault   May-30-07 10:50 PM   #247 
   Excellent Post -- K&R  Hope2006DU Moderator   May-30-07 01:02 PM   #84 
   "The world is full of hate"  hfojvt   May-30-07 01:07 PM   #87 
   This thread is not about that.  lwfern   May-30-07 01:16 PM   #89 
   Thanks, lwfern.  intheflow   May-30-07 01:14 PM   #88 
   Psychological Warfare  19jet54   May-30-07 01:17 PM   #90 
   I think this post misses the point in four ways.  lwfern   May-30-07 01:30 PM   #92 
      Good post n/t  LostinVA   May-30-07 01:36 PM   #96 
      People are sheep!  19jet54   May-30-07 01:41 PM   #98 
      thought the sarcasm referred to the last part  lwfern   May-30-07 01:44 PM   #100 
         On a serious note  19jet54   May-30-07 02:57 PM   #108 
            Yep, absolutely  lwfern   May-30-07 04:47 PM   #133 
               dialogue or monologue?  19jet54   May-30-07 05:01 PM   #134 
               patronizing  lwfern   May-30-07 05:36 PM   #153 
                  Damn...  19jet54   May-30-07 07:48 PM   #190 
                     Oh, by all means, yes.  lwfern   May-30-07 08:10 PM   #201 
                        Garp! Garp! Garp!  19jet54   May-30-07 09:10 PM   #217 
               My thoughts exactly.  quantessd   May-30-07 05:50 PM   #163 
                  Like the recient Supreme Court decision?  19jet54   May-30-07 07:55 PM   #195 
                  I don't believe what men say; I believe what they do  Lydia Leftcoast   May-31-07 10:15 AM   #323 
      #5  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 10:38 PM   #242 
   k&r  me b zola   May-30-07 01:24 PM   #91 
   Kick -- important OP  LostinVA   May-30-07 01:32 PM   #93 
   K&R  Pooka Fey   May-30-07 01:33 PM   #94 
   sexism is far from dead, but it is still invisible to some--just  bbgrunt   May-30-07 02:43 PM   #107 
   I'm consistently stunned by the sexist language and opinions on DU. nt  MookieWilson   May-30-07 03:09 PM   #112 
      Like post #42? nt.  Umbram   May-31-07 02:03 AM   #274 
   Great post-though I'm not sure what happened with Cindy the past couple of days...  TheGoldenRule   May-30-07 03:09 PM   #111 
   Moving, agreed to, thank you for posting  Anita Garcia   May-30-07 03:09 PM   #113 
   K&R!  Karenina   May-30-07 03:38 PM   #118 
   K & Friggin R!!  Triana   May-30-07 03:43 PM   #119 
   k&r - there is nothing I can add to this excellent post except to thank you  yardwork   May-30-07 03:44 PM   #120 
   Disgusting. Suppression of women is largely based on Christian thought...  Elrond HubbardDU Moderator   May-30-07 03:47 PM   #122 
   That's what happens  19jet54   May-30-07 04:12 PM   #127 
   That's what happens when you take it literally, too  Elrond HubbardDU Moderator   May-30-07 05:43 PM   #158 
   Patriarchy, of which Christianity is a subset, but only ONE subset  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 11:43 PM   #257 
   Jesus was quite fair in  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 05:16 PM   #383 
   Disgusting. n/t  whereismyparty   May-30-07 04:02 PM   #124 
   Thanks, Good post.  DemExpat   May-30-07 04:19 PM   #129 
   Sad  Tekla West   May-30-07 04:21 PM   #131 
   Ignorance and Hate team up to take on all sexes  Vinnie From Indy   May-30-07 04:46 PM   #132 
   actually no they don't...  VelmaD   May-30-07 05:05 PM   #135 
      So without all the ranting, your point is that women are ALWAYS victims of  Vinnie From Indy   May-30-07 05:22 PM   #146 
         way to completely miss my point...  VelmaD   May-30-07 05:26 PM   #148 
         "Ranting"? oh boy -- way to prove The OP's point.  LostinVA   May-31-07 09:38 AM   #310 
   Check this out  Horse with no Name   May-30-07 05:05 PM   #136 
   Verbal violence preceeds physical violence, and usually precipitates it.  bobbolink   May-30-07 05:15 PM   #139 
   Preach it!  VelmaD   May-30-07 05:20 PM   #143 
      I'm so sorry you've experienced this, too! There used to be some support among  bobbolink   May-30-07 05:25 PM   #147 
      well, one thing that doesn't help...  VelmaD   May-30-07 05:28 PM   #149 
         Absolutely. It's a clear indication that caring about the pain of others isn't  bobbolink   May-30-07 05:32 PM   #152 
            we are so on the same wavelength  VelmaD   May-30-07 05:37 PM   #154 
               thank you!! I remembered seeing that, but then couldn't find it to reply!  bobbolink   May-30-07 05:41 PM   #156 
                  peace at ya  VelmaD   May-30-07 05:43 PM   #160 
                     Ain't doin' no jackin'  bobbolink   May-30-07 05:46 PM   #161 
      There could be all sorts of reasons.  Vinnie From Indy   May-30-07 05:29 PM   #150 
      ya know...when it's almost always on threads...  VelmaD   May-30-07 05:32 PM   #151 
      There you go again....  bobbolink   May-30-07 05:43 PM   #159 
      I have no idea who you are and I have never replied to any of your posts  Vinnie From Indy   May-30-07 05:47 PM   #162 
         way to blow what I said completely out of proportion  VelmaD   May-30-07 05:51 PM   #164 
            I only know you from the words you have chosen to reply to my posts.  Vinnie From Indy   May-30-07 06:08 PM   #167 
            "I would offer that you think a bit more"  lukasahero   May-30-07 06:35 PM   #173 
               He's a one-man show  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 11:59 PM   #260 
            That is complete nonsense.  Vinnie From Indy   May-31-07 09:41 AM   #313 
               Way to go, Vinnie!!!  Karenina   May-31-07 07:17 PM   #394 
                  Maybe he's doing a parody of the clueless.  A-Schwarzenegger   May-31-07 07:45 PM   #395 
      BWAHAHAHAHAHA!  bobbolink   May-30-07 05:43 PM   #157 
      No. Bullies see women as "the weaker sex" and start from there.  sfexpat2000   May-30-07 06:01 PM   #166 
      I agree that sexist attacks on women seem to be the first  Vinnie From Indy   May-30-07 06:17 PM   #169 
      I don't even think it's that polarized. How many women has Coulter  sfexpat2000   May-30-07 06:20 PM   #170 
      From my OP  lwfern   May-30-07 06:24 PM   #171 
      I think if you do some research  lukasahero   May-30-07 06:36 PM   #175 
      What if the women  BoneDaddy   May-31-07 07:57 AM   #290 
         I didn't preclude the idea that women can be bullies.  sfexpat2000   Jun-01-07 07:21 AM   #411 
         I wasn't even gonna bother responding to that  lwfern   Jun-01-07 08:58 AM   #412 
      Wow...  urgk   May-30-07 07:54 PM   #194 
         You missed my point entirely  Vinnie From Indy   May-30-07 08:00 PM   #197 
         Okay, let's see...  urgk   May-30-07 08:29 PM   #208 
            Well maybe you should read the rest of her posts.  Vinnie From Indy   May-30-07 11:01 PM   #250 
               "Well maybe you should read the rest of her posts."  urgk   May-30-07 11:40 PM   #256 
                  Your response is mildly amusing  Vinnie From Indy   May-31-07 12:22 AM   #265 
                     Let me map it out for you...  urgk   May-31-07 06:20 AM   #283 
                        Welcome to DU!  Vinnie From Indy   May-31-07 09:01 AM   #300 
         I think I like you.  Morgana LaFey   May-31-07 12:02 AM   #262 
      I've received hate mail for my LTTEs  lapislzi   May-31-07 09:26 AM   #308 
   Brava lwfern!  MuseRider   May-30-07 06:10 PM   #168 
   Hey, it's ok to discriminate against women  AbbyR   May-30-07 06:31 PM   #172 
   Don't forget DU's own Ava. She was threatened with rape and death, and rape after death.  Straight Shooter   May-30-07 06:53 PM   #177 
   Thank you. I cannot believe I forgot about that.  lwfern   May-30-07 07:43 PM   #188 
   And it's ironic that her web site (and motto) is "Peace Takes Courage."  Straight Shooter   May-30-07 08:29 PM   #209 
   What? Sick people  nam78_two   May-30-07 11:27 PM   #254 
   But Ava's only 15, maybe 16 now?  Raksha   May-31-07 04:50 AM   #277 
      That's the NORM, not an exception.  lwfern   May-31-07 08:10 AM   #293 
         Exactly, lwfern...  prairierose   May-31-07 11:26 AM   #329 
   k&r...n/t  Madspirit   May-30-07 07:09 PM   #180 
   Kinda makes me want to send rape threats  Jed Dilligan   May-30-07 07:09 PM   #181 
   and the reason it would be wrong ...  lwfern   May-30-07 07:48 PM   #191 
      All right...  Jed Dilligan   May-30-07 07:52 PM   #192 
   k&r  Swamp Rat   May-30-07 07:25 PM   #185 
   I'm glad you're back, Swamp Rat !  Lars39   May-30-07 07:41 PM   #187 
   It's interesting how we decry the "hate" from the RW, but ... we women are supposed  bobbolink   May-30-07 08:04 PM   #199 
   Oh my...  MrPrax   May-30-07 08:10 PM   #200 
   I happen to agree  BoneDaddy   May-30-07 08:26 PM   #205 
   "Never going get what you want that way." Would you be referring to equal rights we DESERVE?  bettyellen   May-30-07 10:27 PM   #233 
   Deleted message  Name removed   May-31-07 07:51 AM   #289 
      wow, i'm less than equal and a facist.... since i do regard your thoughts as total bullshit  bettyellen   May-31-07 08:20 AM   #295 
         LOL  BoneDaddy   May-31-07 01:31 PM   #348 
            oh i know it's ALL MY FAULT you like to use sexist racist words! my UPPITY + SHRILL WAYS  bettyellen   May-31-07 05:13 PM   #382 
               Oh! So YOU'RE the one!  lwfern   May-31-07 09:16 PM   #399 
               Do you think I really  BoneDaddy   Jun-01-07 01:26 PM   #413 
                  you broke DU rules- which are not facist, btwand are blaming the consequnces on others, child...  bettyellen   Jun-01-07 07:05 PM   #423 
   "Never going get what you want that way." -- wish i could nominate this post...  nashville_brook   May-31-07 09:04 AM   #301 
      just begrudging people their equal rights because they're all uppity. can you f'ing belive it?  bettyellen   May-31-07 07:55 PM   #396 
   Oh, My, indeed  lwfern   May-30-07 08:27 PM   #206 
   Two points...that's it  MrPrax   May-30-07 08:41 PM   #211 
      The founding fathers got their rights cause everyone cooperated?  lwfern   May-30-07 09:05 PM   #216 
         That's my point...!?  MrPrax   May-30-07 10:12 PM   #228 
         White, male landowners got their rights....the rest of us had to work at it. nt  MookieWilson   May-30-07 10:27 PM   #235 
   Oh, look, ladies. We have an expert on the Women's Movement  Morgana LaFey   May-31-07 12:15 AM   #263 
      What?  MrPrax   May-31-07 08:10 AM   #294 
         '" little rad butt"?  sheeptramp   May-31-07 01:49 PM   #351 
            Why R U reply?  MrPrax   May-31-07 02:45 PM   #354 
   K&R. Anybody who fails to see the misogyny in the attacks on Cindy  A-Schwarzenegger   May-30-07 08:42 PM   #212 
   Thank you for posting....  femrap   May-30-07 08:43 PM   #213 
   K & R  Totally Committed   May-30-07 08:53 PM   #214 
   And then, when any sensitive woman is reading this kind of tripe  Morgana LaFey   May-30-07 09:30 PM   #220 
   why are we surprised that bad people do bad things?  pitohui   May-30-07 10:42 PM   #245 
      it's pathetic to be disturbed by sexually threatening messages and we should just get used to it?  bettyellen   May-30-07 11:01 PM   #249 
      some of these men are progressive on every other issue? no, they're not  pitohui   May-31-07 01:16 PM   #345 
      Some of DU's oldest and "finest" members are sexist, some are  Morgana LaFey   May-31-07 12:25 AM   #266 
         so this is about crapping on other DUers? i thought it was about bad guys attacking peace activists  pitohui   May-31-07 01:38 PM   #349 
            meanwhile basic things like equal pay get further away with each passing year  Morgana LaFey   Jun-01-07 12:58 AM   #408 
   K & R, I am WOMAN, I WILL NOT BE SILENCED  smtpgirl   May-30-07 09:57 PM   #224 
   Wonderful post.  Marie26   May-30-07 10:40 PM   #244 
   Error: You've already recommended that thread. n/t  bear425   May-30-07 10:47 PM   #246 
   K&R from this "hysterical, emotional" woman  nam78_two   May-30-07 11:26 PM   #253 
   As woman and mother, I salute this post; however...  puebloknot   May-31-07 12:00 AM   #261 
   You're the only peson I've seen attribute gender bias  Morgana LaFey   May-31-07 12:35 AM   #267 
   Maybe you just didn't happen to read the post I mentioned. I assure you...  puebloknot   May-31-07 05:09 AM   #278 
      You misunderstood my point  Morgana LaFey   Jun-01-07 12:59 AM   #409 
         "It's not worth trying to explain it to you."  puebloknot   Jun-01-07 09:22 PM   #424 
            You misunderstood that one too  Morgana LaFey   Jun-01-07 09:33 PM   #426 
   Great post.  jpgray   May-31-07 05:15 AM   #280 
   Thank you! nt  puebloknot   May-31-07 05:21 AM   #282 
   I interpret that gender bias slightly differently than you.  lwfern   May-31-07 06:46 AM   #285 
      In fact, let's insist that they wear burlap sacks. Hairshirts, maybe...  puebloknot   May-31-07 10:10 PM   #402 
   God, I wish it wasn't true  9thkvius   May-31-07 12:18 AM   #264 
   Thank you, thank you  Morgana LaFey   May-31-07 12:39 AM   #268 
   Deleted message  Name removed   May-31-07 01:07 AM   #269 
   Men as idiots  spag68   May-31-07 01:08 AM   #270 
   Excellent post  Der Blaue Engel   May-31-07 01:50 AM   #273 
   Is there no way to identify these men who are posting?  mainer   May-31-07 06:32 AM   #284 
   Because people  BoneDaddy   May-31-07 09:15 AM   #304 
      The poster was referring to the OP, which you need to read, btw.  Lars39   May-31-07 09:31 AM   #309 
      ah  BoneDaddy   May-31-07 09:40 AM   #312 
      Um, actually, I think the poster is referring to ACTUAL death threats  lukasahero   May-31-07 10:08 AM   #320 
   I completely agree... how many times even here do we see...  glowing   May-31-07 07:43 AM   #287 
   Verbal violence is not acceptable in any form  Thor_MN   May-31-07 08:00 AM   #292 
   It's different for any OPPRESSED GROUP. Not just women.  lwfern   May-31-07 08:31 AM   #297 
   Best post ever.  Cults4Bush   May-31-07 08:51 AM   #298 
   Some DU'ers do the same thing to Condoleeza Rice  1932   May-31-07 09:07 AM   #303 
   DUers have even used racial caricatures and stereotypes of Dr. Rice  slackmaster   May-31-07 04:43 PM   #367 
   Great post. There are still a lot of people who feel women should be submissive.  PA Democrat   May-31-07 09:15 AM   #305 
   K & R  Le Taz Hot   May-31-07 09:21 AM   #307 
   We don't hear enough about this  Nikki Stone1   May-31-07 09:52 AM   #314 
   this is one of the most IMPORTANT posts on DU in some time....  mike_c   May-31-07 09:56 AM   #315 
   Hey, you got threatened too, professor Mike  Nikki Stone1   May-31-07 10:10 AM   #322 
      exactly-- not only did they not seriously threaten violence...  mike_c   May-31-07 10:35 AM   #326 
         I find it terrifying how easy it is for some rather sick males to escalate to this point  Nikki Stone1   May-31-07 11:28 PM   #405 
   Thank you for posting this  dancingAlone   May-31-07 11:16 AM   #328 
   This is why I was SO angry when Flynt was held up as a champion of free speech here.  lwfern   May-31-07 11:26 AM   #330 
   Can we get another KICK in?  blm   May-31-07 12:17 PM   #334 
   I was called a fat, greasy, Mexican lesbian on another board.  Cleita   May-31-07 12:23 PM   #335 
   ha you did what I was going to say to you when I saw your title post  themartyred   May-31-07 12:27 PM   #337 
   Me gusta como tu piensas!  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 05:07 PM   #379 
   I wouldn't know if it's grammatically correct. LOL!  Cleita   May-31-07 05:23 PM   #385 
      LOL. Just so you got the meaning. My  DemBones DemBones   May-31-07 05:57 PM   #387 
         I have never trained a dog in any language, but maybe this will  Cleita   May-31-07 06:18 PM   #388 
   An obnoxious man once told my SO that I'm a "mouthy bitch"  lapislzi   Jun-01-07 02:38 PM   #418 
   kick  coffeenap   May-31-07 12:24 PM   #336 
   Hartmann is all over this issue thus morning.  Opposite Reaction   May-31-07 12:39 PM   #339 
   And when men attack other men in that way, often they are  sfexpat2000   May-31-07 01:02 PM   #343 
      A slight correction...  Opposite Reaction   May-31-07 01:12 PM   #344 
         I've been thinking about this, and don't believe it works that way.  sfexpat2000   May-31-07 04:29 PM   #364 
            Rape of men by men is still gendered violence  lwfern   May-31-07 04:58 PM   #372 
               Oh, of course. But it's not clear to me (at all) that this is  sfexpat2000   May-31-07 05:02 PM   #376 
   K&R!! Thank you....  KAT119   May-31-07 12:46 PM   #340 
   Look at the Rosie/ Elizabeth spat recently  Lorien   May-31-07 12:59 PM   #342 
   K&R.  Cabcere   May-31-07 01:51 PM   #352 
   kicking. i agree--it's exactly what happened to cindy here. it was not a  orleans   May-31-07 02:51 PM   #355 
   Robin Morgan's fire-breathing manifesto "Goodbye To All That"  Raksha   May-31-07 04:09 PM   #362 
   How do I begin..  Feron   May-31-07 04:54 PM   #369 
   I remember that post.  lwfern   May-31-07 05:20 PM   #384 
   Oh, yes, men who are not exactly fashion plates themselves act as if  Lydia Leftcoast   May-31-07 05:48 PM   #386 
   That's a very useful concept: Fuckable vs. unfuckable women.  Raksha   May-31-07 06:26 PM   #389 
   Corrugated Woman  puebloknot   Jun-01-07 09:39 PM   #427 
   Here's another woman who threatened the power structure...  Neecy   May-31-07 05:00 PM   #374 
   "The Language War," by Robin Tolmach Lakoff  Karenina   May-31-07 07:03 PM   #393 
   I want to thank all the strong and beautiful women for adding their voices here!  bobbolink   May-31-07 06:31 PM   #390 
   This thread has been fabulous  gollygee   May-31-07 06:37 PM   #392 
   Absolutely! All the roaring is uplifting!  bobbolink   Jun-01-07 06:49 PM   #421 
   the quality of discourse is simply wonderful!  nashville_brook   Jun-01-07 02:16 PM   #415 
      heh--- I thought I was pretty articulate, ^_^, but I"ve copied some of the  bobbolink   Jun-01-07 06:50 PM   #422 
   Congrats, Fern... Thom Hartmann apparently referred to this post  hlthe2b   May-31-07 09:50 PM   #401 
      Yep, I Heard It - He Referenced Fern And DU  lligrd   Jun-01-07 02:18 PM   #416 
         Cool. I love Thom Hartmann  Nikki Stone1   Jun-02-07 11:38 PM   #434 
 

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