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Reply #94: Dresden has preserved some of the bombed out areas. [View All]

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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-09 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #59
94. Dresden has preserved some of the bombed out areas.
I have been to Dresden and seen those areas. The bombing started firestorms which killed thousands of people who inhaled the superheated air. If Germany had not lost the war, that bombing would have been prosecuted as a war crime. Indiscriminate killing of civilians is a war crime.
Since the facts of the combined USAF and RAF raids on Dresden became known, mostly through the novel 'Slaughterhouse Five' by Kurt Vonnegut, there has been great controversy as to why this appalling raid was considered necessary.

The city had no military targets to speak of, and it was known that it was packed with civilian refugees from the east. Here is an eye-witness account by Lothar (shown here with his sister), just nine years old, who survived. (no copyright on this account, so no limit on paragraphs).

It was February. 13th, 1945. I lived with my mother and sisters (13, 5 and 5 months old twins) in Dresden and was looking forward to celebrating my 10th birthday February l6th. My father, a carpenter, had been a soldier since 1939 and we got his last letter in August 1944. My mother was very sad to receive her letters back with the note: "Not to be found." We lived in a 3 room flat on the 4th floor in a working class region of our town. I remember celebrating Shrove Tuesday (February 13th) together with other children, The activities of the war in the east came nearer and nearer. Lots of soldiers went east and lots of refugees went west through our town or stayed there, also in the air raid night February13th/14th.

About 9:30 PM the alarm was given. We children knew that sound and got up and dressed quickly, to hurry downstairs into our cellar which we used as an air raid shelter. My older sister and I carried my baby twin sisters, my mother carried a little suitcase and the bottles with milk for our babies. On the radio we heard with great horror the news: "Attention, a great air raid will corne over our town!" This news I will never forget.

Some minutes later we heard a horrible noise — the bombers. There were nonstop explosions. Our cellar was filled with fire and smoke and was damaged, the lights went out and wounded people shouted dreadfully. In great fear we struggled to leave this cellar. My mother and my older sister carried the big basket in which the twins were lain. With one hand I grasped my younger sister and with the other I grasped the coat of my mother.

We did not recognize our street any more. Fire, only fire wherever we looked. Our 4th floor did not exist anymore. The broken remains of our house were burning. On the streets there were burning vehicles and carts with refugees, people, horses, all of them screaming and shouting in fear of death. I saw hurt women, children, old people searching a way through ruins and flames.

We fled into another cellar overcrowded with injured and distraught men women and children shouting, crying and praying. No light except some electric torches. And then suddenly the second raid began. This shelter was hit too, and so we fled through cellar after cellar. Many, so many, desperate people came in from the streets. lt is not possible to describe! Explosion after explosion. It was beyond belief, worse than the blackest nightmare. So many people were horribly burnt and injured. lt became more and more difficult to breathe. lt was dark and all of us tried to leave this cellar with inconceivable panic. Dead and dying people were trampled upon, luggage was left or snatched up out of our hands by rescuers. The basket with our twins covered with wet cloths was snatched up out of my mothers hands and we were pushed upstairs by the people behind us. We saw the burning street, the falling ruins and the terrible firestorm. My mother covered us with wet blankets and coats she found in a water tub.

We saw terrible things: cremated adults shrunk to the size of small children, pieces of arms and legs, dead people, whole families burnt to death, burning people ran to and fro, burnt coaches filled with civilian refugees, dead rescuers and soldiers, many were calling and looking for their children and families, and fire everywhere, everywhere fire, and all the time the hot wind of the firestorm threw people back into the burning houses they were trying to escape from.

I cannot forget these terrible details. I can never forget them.

Now rny rnother possessed only a little bag with our identitiy papers. The basket with the twins had disappeared and then suddenly my older sister vanished too . Although my rnother looked for her immediately it was in vain. The last hours af this night we found shelter in the cellar of a hospital nearby surrounded by crying and dying people. In the next morning we looked for our sister and the twins but without success. The house where we lived was only a burning ruin. The house where our twins were left we could not go in. Soldiers said everyone was burnt to death and we never saw my two baby sisters again.

Totally exhausted, with burnt hair and badly burnt and wounded by the fire we walked to the Loschwitz bridge where we found good people who allowed us to wash, to eat . . . .


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  -TYT: Would you bomb a school? ejbr  Jan-07-09 03:26 PM   #0 
  - I love this clip. Hopefully it catches some eyes.  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 03:27 PM   #1 
  - I truly hope so too. n/t  ejbr   Jan-07-09 03:37 PM   #3 
     - I know you already read this, but if anyone missed it, Cenk has a great new article. Also, Juan Cole  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 04:30 PM   #20 
  - k&r  matthewf   Jan-07-09 03:35 PM   #2 
  - Us citizens of Earth need to get a grip on our terrorist overlords.  frog92969   Jan-07-09 03:43 PM   #4 
  - K & R!!!  CherylK   Jan-07-09 03:44 PM   #5 
  - Some guy was on BBC World News this morning trying to defend this...  redqueen   Jan-07-09 03:55 PM   #6 
  - There are some troubled people here on DU trying to defend it too  spiritual_gunfighter   Jan-07-09 10:49 PM   #64 
  - Wow that is some serious  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 03:56 PM   #7 
  - Explain why it's propaganda? Also explain how only one side has been presented in the MSM.  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 03:59 PM   #9 
  - I think they are skull and bones  reggie the dog   Jan-07-09 04:13 PM   #13 
  - Agreed, truth for some is in the Eye of the Beholder. nt  Mithreal   Jan-07-09 04:30 PM   #21 
  - Well  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 05:58 PM   #39 
     - It's showing the side that is almost never represented in the MSM!  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 06:01 PM   #40 
     - LOL  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 06:08 PM   #42 
        - A hilarious statement. Explain to us why *your* opinion is objective and unbiased please.  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 06:13 PM   #44 
           - I do understand both sides exactly  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 06:20 PM   #46 
           - It's WAY over the top, completely disproportionate.  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 06:28 PM   #47 
              - Sorry...  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 06:37 PM   #48 
                 - Yes, both sides are wrong. But one side is much, much more powerful militarily  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 06:54 PM   #52 
                    - sort of like how  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 07:39 PM   #54 
           - I'm waiting for one supporter of Hamas to suggest some alternative  JDPriestly   Jan-08-09 01:01 PM   #89 
     - The clip is one-sided? Why? Did the Palestinians bomb a Israeli school  acmavm   Jan-08-09 04:46 AM   #72 
  - I see why your opinion is humbled n/t  ejbr   Jan-07-09 04:13 PM   #14 
  - EXTRA: UN: Israel admits rocket fire was not from within school  DogPoundPup   Jan-07-09 04:18 PM   #15 
  - Lol from that link ....  Indenturedebtor   Jan-08-09 07:34 AM   #76 
  - Your response is utterly anti-human rubbish.  Mithreal   Jan-07-09 04:28 PM   #19 
  - Let me get this straight. You are rationalizing the deaths of children because "the situation is all  rhett o rick   Jan-07-09 04:53 PM   #30 
  - You kind of bent my opinion up a little huh....  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 06:07 PM   #41 
     - Why shouldn't Hamas come forward and fight the Israelis head on?  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 06:11 PM   #43 
     - I agree with your P.S. now to the rest  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 06:16 PM   #45 
     - Once again Cenk said that there is never an excuse to bomb children. He was talking specifically  rhett o rick   Jan-07-09 06:42 PM   #49 
     - I agree with condemning the killing of innocents on both sides.  humbled_opinion   Jan-07-09 07:49 PM   #55 
        - Good Grief. nm  rhett o rick   Jan-07-09 09:53 PM   #61 
           - I didn't know Charlie Brown had an account at DU!  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 10:10 PM   #62 
              - Let's keep it between us ok? nm  rhett o rick   Jan-07-09 11:04 PM   #65 
                 - Will do.  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 11:42 PM   #66 
     - your rationalizations are absurd and you should know better.  proud progressive   Jan-07-09 08:28 PM   #57 
  - How opened minded. You are here by requested to turn in your "liberal" badge.  rhett o rick   Jan-07-09 04:54 PM   #32 
  - I'd recommend this a thousand times if I could.  yellerpup   Jan-07-09 03:59 PM   #8 
  - We got a LOT of criticism for what 'some' of our troops did in Viet Nam .. but ...  TahitiNut   Jan-07-09 04:01 PM   #10 
  - my dad was a marine in Vietnam and while out on patrol  reggie the dog   Jan-07-09 04:18 PM   #16 
     - What a nightmare for everyone "involved" n/t  ejbr   Jan-07-09 04:55 PM   #33 
     - Right .. "Burn the villages in order to save them" --- I made same connection ...  defendandprotect   Jan-08-09 01:27 PM   #92 
  - I like his take on that video.  Seldona   Jan-07-09 04:06 PM   #11 
  - Agreed, schools are never targets except of TERRORISTS  Mithreal   Jan-07-09 04:32 PM   #22 
     - I don't think it does any good calling either side names.  Seldona   Jan-07-09 04:51 PM   #28 
        - People are dying. It is not name calling. It is defining terrorism.  Mithreal   Jan-07-09 05:12 PM   #36 
  - They allow aid trucks in then bomb the markets?  DogPoundPup   Jan-07-09 04:10 PM   #12 
  - Sort of a definition of terrorism? nt  Mithreal   Jan-07-09 04:32 PM   #24 
  - K&R I can't believe the US and the rest of the  Jesuswasntafascist   Jan-07-09 04:27 PM   #17 
  - Right now US government is "W" ...!!! Carter has spoken out --  defendandprotect   Jan-08-09 01:24 PM   #91 
  - one of his best reports ever  reggie the dog   Jan-07-09 04:28 PM   #18 
  - Error: You've already recommended that thread.  soulcore   Jan-07-09 04:32 PM   #23 
  - a quote from Megadeth  reggie the dog   Jan-07-09 04:52 PM   #29 
  - I have no words that adequately express my outrage.  CaliforniaPeggy   Jan-07-09 04:35 PM   #25 
  - This IS as monsterous as boarding an Egged bus in Jerusalem and detonating a suicide belt.  Poll_Blind   Jan-07-09 04:38 PM   #26 
  - Exactly. Terrorism from EITHER side should be decried. eom.  soulcore   Jan-07-09 04:40 PM   #27 
  - kick for later  navarth   Jan-07-09 04:53 PM   #31 
  - Thanks for this  malaise   Jan-07-09 04:59 PM   #34 
  - He's right...  ShadesOfGrey   Jan-07-09 05:05 PM   #35 
  - K & R  AzDar   Jan-07-09 05:17 PM   #37 
  - president Sarkozy's proposal for children  yava   Jan-07-09 07:58 PM   #56 
     - Sarkozy is a fool  reggie the dog   Jan-08-09 06:19 AM   #75 
     - I understand your concern about psychological damage.  Divernan   Jan-08-09 10:29 AM   #82 
        - I have nothing wrong with the field trips to the concentration camps  reggie the dog   Jan-08-09 02:08 PM   #95 
     - I visited a concentration camp near Berlin last October  Divernan   Jan-08-09 10:11 AM   #80 
        - Wow .....everyone should read your comments ....  defendandprotect   Jan-08-09 01:33 PM   #93 
  - K&R  freeradicalm   Jan-07-09 05:32 PM   #38 
  - Yes Cenk, it is state sponsored terrorism.  Kajsa   Jan-07-09 06:48 PM   #50 
  - K&R. This is the type of thing many children can comprehend - but for some reason, many adults can't  20score   Jan-07-09 06:50 PM   #51 
  - K&R  OhioChick   Jan-07-09 07:11 PM   #53 
  - One day, I would like to see some leadership somewhere in the world  mmonk   Jan-07-09 08:29 PM   #58 
  - I found this article a few days ago  RandomThoughts   Jan-07-09 09:17 PM   #59 
  - Kurt who?!  ihavenobias   Jan-07-09 09:40 PM   #60 
  - A good friend of Kilgore Trout. nm  rhett o rick   Jan-07-09 10:46 PM   #63 
  - Dresden has preserved some of the bombed out areas.  Divernan   Jan-08-09 02:06 PM   #94 
  - Well, certainly not... But he expresses what should be obvious in a very compelling way...  Rhiannon12866   Jan-08-09 12:10 AM   #67 
  - This is horrible. It is a war crime. Israel is not protecting itself. Israel is killing innocents  trthnd4jstc   Jan-08-09 12:29 AM   #68 
  - Certainly this isn't justifiable. It's a bloodbath...  Rhiannon12866   Jan-08-09 12:50 AM   #69 
  - It will be a cold day in hell  democrank   Jan-08-09 02:47 AM   #70 
  - kick and recommended  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-08-09 03:04 AM   #71 
  - K/R.  Window   Jan-08-09 05:00 AM   #73 
  - Cenk has been the only sane voice on this  Locrian   Jan-08-09 06:07 AM   #74 
  - k&r  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-08-09 07:52 AM   #77 
  - Support of Israel  wial   Jan-08-09 08:14 AM   #78 
  - It's time for the U.N. to intervene militarily against Israel.  JackDragna   Jan-08-09 09:15 AM   #79 
  - They did try to force a ceasefire, but the US blocked that in the Security Council.  Divernan   Jan-08-09 10:13 AM   #81 
  - Cenk is correct and this vid made me cry - I've never really  axollot   Jan-08-09 11:25 AM   #83 
  - Borders  edc   Jan-08-09 11:32 AM   #84 
  - K&R  arikara   Jan-08-09 11:55 AM   #85 
  - K&R  me b zola   Jan-08-09 12:23 PM   #86 
  - What about an old-age facility?  Rayander   Jan-08-09 12:44 PM   #88 
  - Yes, I'd bomb a school  Joey Liberal   Jan-08-09 12:28 PM   #87 
     - And if one day a terrorist was hiding in a school ...  defendandprotect   Jan-08-09 01:19 PM   #90 
     - I hear you  Joey Liberal   Jan-08-09 05:38 PM   #100 
        - The debate you're conducting is ...  defendandprotect   Jan-08-09 09:54 PM   #101 
           - My debate is dishonest?  Joey Liberal   Jan-09-09 12:15 PM   #104 
              - Your debate is "dishonest" specifically in this regard . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-10-09 09:06 PM   #107 
     - Ridiculous. I only have contempt for your attempt to rationalize. nt  Mithreal   Jan-08-09 02:14 PM   #96 
     - Not trying to be mean here  Joey Liberal   Jan-08-09 05:25 PM   #98 
        - The most violent always win ....  defendandprotect   Jan-08-09 10:05 PM   #102 
           - Oh, we didn't fight to win in Vietnam  Joey Liberal   Jan-09-09 12:20 PM   #105 
              - Unfortunately, we did . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-10-09 01:28 AM   #106 
     - Hamas fires missiles into Israel..  JackDragna   Jan-08-09 02:20 PM   #97 
        - The Palestinians could have had peace  Joey Liberal   Jan-08-09 05:28 PM   #99 
        - They could have had peace ...  defendandprotect   Jan-08-09 10:12 PM   #103 
        - Every people are inflicted with a violent, paranoid right-wing . . .  defendandprotect   Jan-10-09 09:10 PM   #108 
 

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