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Piewhacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-09 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #51
52. So...
we are supposed to assume it was an accident, a harmless mistake? A "WTF?" deal?

My own feeling is an officer who stands his prisoner wobbling on the edge of a tall building,
then turns away to answer his cellphone as his prisoner plunges to his death
is NOT going to overly impress a either a prosecutor or jury (or me) with a "WTF?" defense.

But whether the officer intended the prisoner to plunge to his death, or merely didn't
give a F* about the grave peril he created is fairly something that should be put before
a jury.

And whatever the outcome, citizens are not required to permit such a man to wear a badge,
for reckless disregard for the value of human life is no standard for a police officer.
And those who hired, trained, and supervised this officer should also be examined,
whether they implicitly or explicitly condoned the officer to conduct himself
improperly, or aided and abetted illegal conduct.

In THIS case of the police shooting of Oscar Grant on New Years day 2009 we have gone
beyond debate of some questions. This is no negligent discharge case, it is a homicide.
There is no doubt the officer shot and killed a man in custody. The video demonstrates,
beyond any doubt, the officer deliberately pulled his weapon with the intention of using it on
the prisoner, jerked on it twice to get it out of its holster, deliberately pointed it at the prisoner
and fired, killing him. There is no question of a deliberate and willful act, or of the proof of it.
ND? Hardly. There is ample here for a charge up to willful murder.

Yet you have raised the question, WTF was the officer thinking????
Indeed, your point is well made. Do you suppose the officer will testify about what
he was thinking? Because I can think of some questions he should be asked.

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  -Oscar Grant Murdered by Oakland Police Officer (shortened video to moment of slaying) BART Shooting themartyred  Jan-05-09 07:40 AM   #0 
  - That pretty much says it all.  Just A Yeller Dawg   Jan-05-09 07:48 AM   #1 
  - OMG!  mecherosegarden   Jan-05-09 08:06 AM   #2 
  - he plainly shot him in the back.  mt13   Jan-05-09 08:10 AM   #3 
  - Did that *ss think he was reaching for his handy dandy taser?  peace13   Jan-05-09 09:06 AM   #4 
  - He didn't anticipate a video...  NM Independent   Jan-05-09 09:25 AM   #5 
     - Hope to *ell this cop is not an Iraq vet.  peace13   Jan-05-09 09:28 AM   #6 
  - Isn't California a death penalty state  sasquatch   Jan-05-09 09:33 AM   #7 
  - Death penalty is not a deterrent, in fact it's why we are such a brutal country  grahamhgreen   Jan-05-09 04:07 PM   #15 
     - ". . ., in fact it's why we are such a brutal country."  bertman   Jan-05-09 06:13 PM   #22 
        - Wow, what a cogent, concise, and intelligent rebuttal! Thank you for your comment.  grahamhgreen   Jan-06-09 01:54 PM   #42 
  - BART Police, not the Oakland Police  keepCAblue   Jan-05-09 09:46 AM   #8 
  - that's right. BART police are their own entity out here, and  mythyc   Jan-05-09 07:52 PM   #36 
  - for all you cop-worshipers, not to worry. cops, investigators, d.a., judges all on the same side  proud progressive   Jan-05-09 10:58 AM   #9 
  - People here in the Bay Area are pissed, make no mistake.  Piewhacket   Jan-05-09 12:44 PM   #12 
     - well said, amigo  proud progressive   Jan-05-09 06:06 PM   #21 
        - Thank you.  Piewhacket   Jan-06-09 11:04 AM   #39 
  - murder - n/t  BrightKnight   Jan-05-09 12:19 PM   #10 
  - It will be hard to argue that the officer felt threatened.  JDPriestly   Jan-05-09 12:23 PM   #11 
  - Wow  deathrind   Jan-05-09 02:05 PM   #13 
  - Wow! That poor man was executed for no reason at all.  avaistheone1   Jan-05-09 03:37 PM   #14 
  - I really wish you'd change your subject line...It was NOT the Oakland Police  keepCAblue   Jan-05-09 05:06 PM   #16 
  - WTF?!  Oregonian   Jan-05-09 05:24 PM   #17 
  - really...  themartyred   Jan-05-09 05:30 PM   #18 
     - cold blooded redrum. nt  wroberts189   Jan-05-09 06:48 PM   #28 
  - Fuck. I heard witnesses say that is how it happened,  SpookyCat   Jan-05-09 05:35 PM   #19 
  - not sure if it matters, but  themartyred   Jan-05-09 05:47 PM   #20 
     - It doesn't help, but thank you for trying.  SpookyCat   Jan-05-09 06:23 PM   #24 
        - It helps a whole lot. We don't need this precedent set.  Seldona   Jan-05-09 06:52 PM   #30 
        - I'm not 100% clear what you read in my post...  SpookyCat   Jan-05-09 07:05 PM   #31 
        - Duh. .. it matters in terms of accuracy. If people want to get angry...  keepCAblue   Jan-05-09 07:16 PM   #33 
           - ...sigh...  SpookyCat   Jan-05-09 11:48 PM   #37 
  - This is the first I have seen or heard of this, so someone please fill me in on what  bertman   Jan-05-09 06:18 PM   #23 
  - Here's the article  SpookyCat   Jan-05-09 06:28 PM   #25 
     - Holy shit. No one deserves that. Well, no one outside BushCo. nt  valerief   Jan-05-09 06:40 PM   #27 
     - Thanks, SpookyCat. And therein lies the cop's alibi: Well, I thought I was gonna tase him.  bertman   Jan-05-09 06:50 PM   #29 
  - badly trained police are everywhere. Hold their bosses to account  Swagman   Jan-05-09 06:38 PM   #26 
  - why do you assume this happened because of bad training?  provis99   Jan-07-09 03:11 AM   #48 
  - As soon as that officer was issued that gun,  grahampuba   Jan-05-09 07:09 PM   #32 
  - Incredible and disgustingly so.  Jefferson23   Jan-05-09 07:19 PM   #34 
  - Considering that he shot him in the lower back,  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-05-09 07:50 PM   #35 
  - If I shoot a cop like that  Fedja   Jan-06-09 10:52 AM   #38 
  - I never said he shouldn't be tried as a civilian.  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-06-09 03:34 PM   #43 
     - well..  Fedja   Jan-07-09 01:35 AM   #47 
        - You said I was making excuses for the cop,  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-07-09 04:06 AM   #49 
           - I did?  Fedja   Jan-07-09 06:03 PM   #55 
              - my mistake  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-07-09 07:22 PM   #57 
  - Mistake? You are describing gross negligence.  Piewhacket   Jan-06-09 11:30 AM   #40 
  - once again  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-06-09 03:35 PM   #44 
     - OK, we're cool. Just responding to your comment  Piewhacket   Jan-07-09 01:28 AM   #46 
        - OK  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-07-09 04:31 AM   #50 
           - So...  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-07-09 05:10 AM   #51 
              - So...  Piewhacket   Jan-07-09 11:16 AM   #52 
                 - When did I ever say it wasn't homicide?  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-07-09 06:03 PM   #56 
                    - so when did you say it was homicide?  Piewhacket   Jan-07-09 11:11 PM   #62 
                       - Evidently, it does matter.  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-08-09 12:22 AM   #63 
                          - What matters depends on what matters  Piewhacket   Jan-08-09 04:03 AM   #64 
                             - Yeah, I'd say it was reckless.  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-08-09 11:37 AM   #69 
                                - or maybe intentional..  Piewhacket   Jan-08-09 02:30 PM   #70 
  - Mistake? No shooting in this situation was a mistake  Raineyb   Jan-06-09 01:28 PM   #41 
  - I never said anybody needed to be tazed.  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-06-09 03:37 PM   #45 
  - no reason to draw a gun or a taser on the victim  smiley   Jan-07-09 04:11 PM   #54 
     - You contradict yourself.  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-07-09 07:30 PM   #58 
        - just semantics  smiley   Jan-08-09 10:52 AM   #67 
  - Ok I'll play devils advocate  jacksmind   Jan-07-09 04:01 PM   #53 
  - I'm seeing it as express malice aforethought v implied malice aforethought.  Wizard777   Jan-07-09 09:17 PM   #59 
     - Never mind what he was thinking?  Brucie Kibbutz   Jan-07-09 10:38 PM   #61 
        - He intended to discharge a weapon. Be it taser or gun, The intent is clear.  Wizard777   Jan-08-09 07:47 AM   #65 
        - I got your mens rea right here.  Wizard777   Jan-08-09 10:15 AM   #66 
  - I'm hearing the officer has resigned.  Wizard777   Jan-07-09 09:29 PM   #60 
  - kinda figured what was best for him, eh?  themartyred   Jan-09-09 10:25 AM   #72 
  - Words fail.  JNelson6563   Jan-08-09 11:02 AM   #68 
  - I don't know how much more it could be cold blooded murder  vmaus   Jan-09-09 12:28 AM   #71 
  - Just saw the footage of this on CNN while out to lunch. Nearly vomited as a result  Caution   Jan-09-09 12:25 PM   #73 
 

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