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Reply #93: Since they are across the board. . . [View All]

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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-19-06 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #89
93. Since they are across the board. . .
Edited on Wed Apr-19-06 08:38 PM by pat_k
. . there's no particular set of beliefs that identifies someone as a belief person. They can pick up beliefs from anyone they identify with -- and the forces that bring people together are too various to generalize.

The same doesn't go for the "knowledge people." If the information they are aware of is mistaken or limited (and different social circles can have very different sets of "facts" floating around) knowledge people can draw erroneous conclusions, but the process by which they come to their beliefs tends to protect them from getting too far off the beaten track. As a consequence, you don't find many knowledge people in the reactionary-right.

Because the reactionary-right is almost exclusively populated by belief people, it can be difficult to tease out the attributes that are characteristic of belief people from attributers that may be peculiar to reactionaries, but are not actually "belief-people" characteristics.

Before getting too far into an analysis, I'd like to emphasize that the belief people/knowledge people theory is one I find useful in promoting more effective communication. Stripping it down to simple terms helps guide the selection of responses.

Since my focus has been on using the "theory" to define some "dos" and don'ts" for dealing with belief people who are on "the other side," I haven't actually given much though to "our" belief people.

The only time I find myself thinking "she/he's a belief person" is when the person is debating some issue. Belief people and knowledge people tend to have very characteristic ways of responding.

Not sure if it will help, but the commentary I added to a Luther-Franken dialog points out a few of those characteristics.

Sometimes belief people are amazingly easy to ID. A member of a little group I went out with occasionally actually said he didn't want to talk about a particular issue because one of the "usuals" wasn't there. I don't even think it struck him as odd that he didn't know what to think until he heard where X stood.)

One thing that seems to characterize belief people from across the spectrum is impatience. Irresponsibility is definitely another characteristic you see on the right, but I'm not sure that it's a belief-person characteristic.

The process of adopting ideas from other people rather than independent reasoning is at the core of being a belief person, so being people-focused is definitely associated with being a belief person. That is, belief people -- and therefore a vast majority of the right -- are focused on people, not ideas.

When things go wrong, they don't look for systematic forces that could be changed to prevent the wrong, they look for the wrong-doer to blame and punish. For example, instead of looking for systematic changes to prevent the exploitation of undocumented workers here, they focus on the perceived culprits -- the undocumented workers -- and say "send them home."

It is this focus on people that feeds the tendency to demonize those they believe are wrong.

People on the right often seem to be stuck at the Pre-Conventional stage of moral development -- i.e., Obedience and punishment orientation; Self-interest orientation. This tendency too is related to the tendency to focus on people rather than ideas.

Hope these observations help.

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  -Just had a freep encounter at 7-11. maveric  Apr-19-06 01:58 PM   #0 
  - that's where they are right now  ayeshahaqqiqa   Apr-19-06 01:59 PM   #1 
  - And Ayeshahaqqiqa...  Ecumenist   Apr-19-06 02:01 PM   #4 
  - Nobody has to  Warpy   Apr-19-06 02:24 PM   #38 
     - She and many other freeptards will go postal... on each other.  Swamp Rat   Apr-19-06 02:27 PM   #42 
     - Hmmm.... what do you think the right kind of catalyst  Dr_eldritch   Apr-19-06 06:12 PM   #87 
        - More issues like illegal immigration?  Swamp Rat   Apr-19-06 06:50 PM   #88 
        - In a room full of freepers, just innocenlty ask these two questions:  Catrina   Apr-19-06 07:52 PM   #92 
           - That is sooo sweet....  Dr_eldritch   Apr-19-06 09:54 PM   #97 
           - Been Hearing that, too!  AuntiBush   Apr-19-06 10:46 PM   #100 
     - I'll take "go postal" for 1000.00, Alex. eom  Ecumenist   Apr-19-06 02:28 PM   #44 
  - Tell me about your name  Geoff R. Casavant   Apr-19-06 03:00 PM   #53 
     - Not Hopi. Arabic  ayeshahaqqiqa   Apr-19-06 06:03 PM   #86 
  - OMG...  Ecumenist   Apr-19-06 02:00 PM   #2 
  - The clerk is wise  BOSSHOG   Apr-19-06 02:01 PM   #3 
  - "ignorance is strength" n/t  arcane1   Apr-19-06 02:12 PM   #15 
  - Agreed..the clerk's statement was the best part of the story  mtnester   Apr-19-06 05:00 PM   #79 
  - That finger in the ears thing is popular among the freepi  librechik   Apr-19-06 02:04 PM   #5 
  - Covering the mouths of people who speak inconvenient truths, as well.  Marr   Apr-19-06 04:00 PM   #64 
  - $Six Billion/Month for Iraq. You could wallpaper all the welfare  Inland   Apr-19-06 02:04 PM   #6 
  - Repeat after me "$30,00 per taxpayer, $30,000 each, $30 fucken thou..."  joeunderdog   Apr-19-06 04:07 PM   #66 
  - There was a time  Turbineguy   Apr-19-06 02:04 PM   #7 
  - Good job, maveric. Judging from her reaction, you  babylonsister   Apr-19-06 02:05 PM   #8 
  - What's with the fingers in the ears thing...?  Mythsaje   Apr-19-06 02:05 PM   #9 
  - The week the media actually reported that Iraq had no WMD  CrispyQGirl   Apr-19-06 02:29 PM   #45 
  - You gotta wonder  Mythsaje   Apr-19-06 02:43 PM   #49 
  - Like so?  Marr   Apr-19-06 04:03 PM   #65 
  - This is clearly some sort of cult behavior!!!  suziedemocrat   Apr-19-06 07:13 PM   #91 
  - Exactly!  Mythsaje   Apr-20-06 02:27 AM   #106 
  - Thank you, this was my first thought as well  TommyO   Apr-20-06 07:53 AM   #109 
  - Yes. They are. And unfortunately they are allowed to vote.  kestrel91316   Apr-19-06 10:57 PM   #101 
  - Bizarre.  Blue State Native   Apr-19-06 02:05 PM   #10 
  - "I don't have time to listen to this crap."  skypilot   Apr-19-06 02:06 PM   #11 
  - It's only crap if you disagree with their version of truth.  Arkansas Granny   Apr-19-06 02:26 PM   #41 
  - you were quick on the draw with the facts  tatertop   Apr-19-06 02:06 PM   #12 
  - How much ya wanna bet that she has Rushbo on the truck radio?  maveric   Apr-19-06 02:16 PM   #20 
     - I would say so, but I forgive her  MikeNearMcChord   Apr-19-06 02:22 PM   #33 
        - Hey, welcome to DU, neighbor  geniph   Apr-19-06 03:21 PM   #56 
        - Thanx to all of you,  MikeNearMcChord   Apr-19-06 04:25 PM   #71 
        - so true..  frylock   Apr-19-06 03:25 PM   #59 
        - were glad youre here mike - i am interested to know how you were  faithnotgreed   Apr-19-06 03:27 PM   #60 
  - identity politics -- their head would explode if they accepted the truth  Supersedeas   Apr-19-06 02:08 PM   #13 
  - yeah, about a year ago  newspeak   Apr-19-06 02:09 PM   #14 
  - Can you believe this shit? She put her fingers in her ears?  fooj   Apr-19-06 02:12 PM   #16 
  - Reminds me of the clip from a while back  rniel   Apr-19-06 02:13 PM   #17 
  - Janet Parshall...I wish I could find the screenshot.  feminazi   Apr-19-06 02:16 PM   #19 
     - This one?  FLSurfer   Apr-19-06 02:35 PM   #47 
        - Look! A freeper meetup!  giant_robot   Apr-19-06 04:23 PM   #70 
           - lol! I can't believe a grown woman stuffed her fingers in her ears.  guinivere   Apr-19-06 04:55 PM   #78 
              - I saw her do it on live TV! I couldn't believe my eyes. n/t  CottonBear   Apr-20-06 02:56 PM   #116 
  - That Sums up the Freeps...head in sand (or in ass)..fingers in ears...  paparush   Apr-19-06 02:14 PM   #18 
  - EXCELLENT comeback maveric! Absolutely perfect!  NotGivingUp   Apr-19-06 02:16 PM   #21 
  - I'm just so tired of hearing that the poor in this country are the blame..  maveric   Apr-19-06 02:21 PM   #27 
  - She is a moron to do it in a marked truck  MemphisTiger   Apr-19-06 02:19 PM   #22 
  - You say she was buying a lottery ticket huh?  underpants   Apr-19-06 02:19 PM   #23 
  - And Marlboros.  maveric   Apr-19-06 02:21 PM   #29 
  - Oooh, Lotto tickets and Marlboros - sounds like a busy afternoon!  Blue Belle   Apr-19-06 03:28 PM   #61 
  - That was my thought -- tax on people who're bad at math!! (n/t)  klook   Apr-19-06 05:08 PM   #82 
  - Some people like to be fucking stupid...explains the entire GOP thing...  warrens   Apr-19-06 02:20 PM   #24 
  - My own conversation with a freeper.  apple_ridge   Apr-19-06 02:20 PM   #25 
  - Was she buying gas there too?  calipendence   Apr-19-06 02:21 PM   #26 
  - No but right across the street they wer changing the price #'s on the sign  maveric   Apr-19-06 02:23 PM   #37 
  - Is 7-11 actually "blue"?  kath   Apr-19-06 09:26 PM   #95 
     - Not a lot of money spent but does have them 84% blue  calipendence   Apr-19-06 11:38 PM   #102 
  - Wow! That's Classic!  zidzi   Apr-19-06 02:21 PM   #28 
  - Its getting "bluer" as we speak.  maveric   Apr-19-06 02:25 PM   #40 
     - She's probably PO'd about 50th District election results!  calipendence   Apr-19-06 02:28 PM   #43 
        - I used to live in the 50th  zidzi   Apr-19-06 02:47 PM   #51 
           - It happened last week on the 11th...  calipendence   Apr-19-06 02:54 PM   #52 
              - Thank you! Looks like  zidzi   Apr-19-06 03:15 PM   #54 
  - You and that clerk rule.  Zhade   Apr-19-06 02:21 PM   #30 
  - Belief people v. Knowledge people. . .  pat_k   Apr-19-06 02:22 PM   #31 
  - That really hits the nail on the head  geniph   Apr-19-06 03:24 PM   #57 
  - links  pat_k   Apr-19-06 04:50 PM   #76 
  - This explains the GOP demonization of Democrats very well.  July   Apr-19-06 03:38 PM   #62 
  - "Belief people" are definitely vulnerable to fascist beliefs, but. . .  pat_k   Apr-19-06 04:44 PM   #73 
     - I agree that belief people can be found in all segments of society.  July   Apr-19-06 06:55 PM   #89 
        - Since they are across the board. . .  pat_k   Apr-19-06 08:30 PM   #93 
           - Thanks, it's a new way for me to look at people. Very interesting. nt  July   Apr-20-06 07:31 AM   #108 
  - I think you nailed it quite well  Sydnie   Apr-19-06 04:11 PM   #68 
  - Thanks! In case you're interested post #73 above includes links to . . .  pat_k   Apr-19-06 04:48 PM   #74 
  - I confess I used to run on belief  melissinha   Apr-19-06 05:31 PM   #85 
  - Fascinating.  drm604   Apr-19-06 09:35 PM   #96 
     - Perhaps. . .  pat_k   Apr-20-06 12:43 AM   #104 
        - But  drm604   Apr-20-06 09:17 AM   #110 
           - Didn't say it wasn't possible. . .  pat_k   Apr-20-06 02:31 PM   #113 
  - Dear god!  ronnykmarshall   Apr-19-06 02:22 PM   #32 
  - if ignorance is bliss  SeattleRob   Apr-19-06 02:22 PM   #34 
  - They are such troublemakers  KingFlorez   Apr-19-06 02:23 PM   #35 
  - it's interesting that........  tulsakatz   Apr-19-06 02:23 PM   #36 
  - It takes some effort to think for yourself and find the truth. It is much  Mountainman   Apr-19-06 02:24 PM   #39 
  - That clerk was right! Some people like to be fucking stupid  Raksha   Apr-19-06 02:29 PM   #46 
  - Had to listen to a truck driver on his CB radio today screaming  B Calm   Apr-19-06 02:37 PM   #48 
  - Kudos for you for speaking out  CrispyQGirl   Apr-19-06 02:44 PM   #50 
  - AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!  Roland99   Apr-19-06 03:16 PM   #55 
  - Some people like to be fucking stupid, indeed. - n/t  porphyrian   Apr-19-06 03:24 PM   #58 
  - Let me just say that....  wicket   Apr-19-06 03:54 PM   #63 
  - Welfare people always become some kind of target by the corporate parties  Terran1212   Apr-19-06 04:10 PM   #67 
  - Wow... That's Unbelievable!!  arwalden   Apr-19-06 04:20 PM   #69 
  - Limbaugh today must have been talking about blacks  B Calm   Apr-19-06 04:25 PM   #72 
  - Made my day.  donco6   Apr-19-06 04:49 PM   #75 
  - Well done patriot  proud patriot   Apr-19-06 04:53 PM   #77 
  - She's obviously in that 30 some odd percent of Shrub supporters  Shine   Apr-19-06 05:03 PM   #80 
  - Yep - being stupid makes life so much easier  RobertSeattle   Apr-19-06 05:07 PM   #81 
  - You just found *'s next press person.  Xenotime   Apr-19-06 05:10 PM   #83 
  - Thank you for reminding me why I avoid my relatives.  The Backlash Cometh   Apr-19-06 05:27 PM   #84 
  - TOO FUNNY!!!!  suziedemocrat   Apr-19-06 07:02 PM   #90 
  - Total denial - denial of facts, of morality, of reality, of decency,  grannylib   Apr-19-06 09:17 PM   #94 
  - That Clerk Was Right-On!  AuntiBush   Apr-19-06 10:42 PM   #98 
  - Totally proves my theory that ignorance is an active choice.  KitchenWitch   Apr-19-06 10:42 PM   #99 
  - The whole "welfare cheat" thing is very much like...  PassingFair   Apr-19-06 11:43 PM   #103 
  - Wow  DesertRat   Apr-20-06 01:05 AM   #105 
  - I smoke but jeez Louise  buddyhollysghost   Apr-20-06 05:55 AM   #107 
  - SDGE, who allowed ENRON to jack energy costs in 2001.  maveric   Apr-20-06 01:38 PM   #111 
  - "Some people like to be fucking stupid".  Mr_Spock   Apr-20-06 01:41 PM   #112 
  - great post. n/t  orleans   Apr-20-06 02:35 PM   #114 
  - Don't even waste your breathe on freepers.  cain_7777   Apr-20-06 02:54 PM   #115 
  - A lady who didn't like my anti-Bush bumpersticker had a meltdown today  FLDem5   Apr-20-06 02:59 PM   #117 
  - I actually enjoy watching them meltdown!  maveric   Apr-20-06 03:03 PM   #120 
  - Sounds normal to me.  0007   Apr-20-06 02:59 PM   #118 
  - They have Rednecks in San Diego?  BiggJawn   Apr-20-06 03:02 PM   #119 
  - East County, where I live, is full of them.  maveric   Apr-20-06 03:06 PM   #121 
  - Denial is the best word to decribe it.  Klukie   Apr-20-06 04:07 PM   #122 

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