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Reply #31: He's too smart for this country, and its electorate.... [View All]

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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr-04-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
31. He's too smart for this country, and its electorate....
Reading his words themselves, there's nothing wrong with em. The only wrong comes when people read into his words things he simply didn't say.

Obama did NOT for example, say ANY of the following:

(a) We should not be careful about how we achieve Social Security goals.

(b) There are no factors in a successful education beyond teachers.

(c) Parents are not a factor in a child's education.

(d) Poverty is not a factor in a child's education.

(e) Learning disabilities are not a factor in a child's education.


He simply didn't say these things. Nothing he said implied those things. Nothing he said so much as SUGGESTED those things. And yet your criticisms only make sense on the assumption that he did say those things.

I personally, for example, believe that pay for performance makes perfect sense. I also believe that poverty, parenting, and numerous other things need to be addressed in order to create a COMPLETE solution.

I think ascribing statements to someone that they didn't make - ESPECIALLY when they're trained lawyers (specifically trained to say EXACTLY what they mean) - is a rather low form of argumentation. All the more so when the person IS ON YOUR FUCKING SIDE.
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  Obama was dead wrong in his AP speech yesterday. I am furious. madfloridian  Apr-04-06 01:19 PM   #0 
   I don't know...  JStuart   Apr-04-06 01:21 PM   #1 
   I am not at all impressed with this guy..never was and could not  movonne   Apr-04-06 01:22 PM   #2 
   He's a great opportunist  kurth   Apr-04-06 01:28 PM   # 
   Ditto  Imagine My Surprise   Apr-04-06 02:00 PM   #39 
   ..Gotta pile on here. I never GOT whatever it is that makes him so  AzDar   Apr-04-06 03:36 PM   #117 
   totally agree. He's a huge disappointment.  Chimichurri   Apr-04-06 03:37 PM   #118 
   He gave one good speech  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-04-06 05:06 PM   #139 
   I sent him a letter last week...  Kittycat   Apr-04-06 05:07 PM   #140 
   I was turned off by his religious rhetoric  trixie   Apr-04-06 05:52 PM   #146 
   Obama has been an O-bust -- he never lives up to his campaign speeches  Czolgosz   Apr-04-06 07:53 PM   #155 
   I must admit, I became suspicious when the media absolutely gushed  Lorien   Apr-06-06 01:41 AM   #204 
   Honestly, I never saw much in him either...  Pacifist Patriot   Apr-06-06 11:33 AM   #214 
   Obama graduated from an elite private school in Hawaii.  philosophie_en_rose   Apr-04-06 01:22 PM   #3 
   Why have so few politicians gone to public schools?  mycritters2   Apr-04-06 02:07 PM   #44 
      Ooooo, I could get into so much trouble if I answered...  Pacifist Patriot   Apr-06-06 11:34 AM   #215 
   Another reason  mmonk   Apr-04-06 01:23 PM   #4 
   And another damn thing, Obama...about that "safety net"  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:24 PM   #5 
   It was during the great depression  catmandu57   Apr-04-06 01:27 PM   #7 
      You are right, the 30s.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:28 PM   #10 
   Mr. Obama continues to be a deep disappointment.  EST   Apr-04-06 01:25 PM   #6 
   That's pretty sucky  GreenPartyVoter   Apr-04-06 01:27 PM   #8 
   I don't know about Obama either. The more I see of him, the more I wonder  IsItJustMe   Apr-04-06 01:27 PM   #9 
   *sigh*  endarkenment   Apr-04-06 01:28 PM   #11 
   Dems do NOT attack seniors with impunity.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:31 PM   #15 
   You are right on the mark. He's no rising star, just another politician.  IsItJustMe   Apr-04-06 01:35 PM   #20 
   Please put "centrist" in quotes when describing the DLC...  calipendence   Apr-04-06 02:34 PM   #69 
      how about "Corporatist Democrats"  Protagoras   Apr-04-06 02:50 PM   #90 
      That works for me...  calipendence   Apr-04-06 03:49 PM   #121 
      I actually didn't use the toxic DLC word.  endarkenment   Apr-04-06 05:01 PM   #136 
         I think that you are correctly identifying corporatist there...  calipendence   Apr-04-06 05:16 PM   #142 
            I've stopped using DLC as a label  endarkenment   Apr-05-06 09:03 AM   #176 
   From the beginning I felt that Obama was a Manchurian Candidate.  OmmmSweetOmmm   Apr-04-06 01:28 PM   #12 
   Obama is an elitist at heart  kurth   Apr-04-06 01:32 PM   #16 
   The Illinois GOP had a meltdown.  endarkenment   Apr-04-06 01:35 PM   #19 
   I think the GOP is too well organized than to have a "meltdown".  OmmmSweetOmmm   Apr-04-06 02:45 PM   #80 
      Not in this case in Illinois.  endarkenment   Apr-04-06 05:03 PM   #137 
   "out of state rabid contender" = Alan Keyes  bunkerbuster1   Apr-04-06 01:45 PM   #26 
   Hey, let's get "7 of 9" (Jeri Ryan) to run for the Dems...  calipendence   Apr-04-06 02:36 PM   #74 
   It'd be tough getting fellas to volunteer to work with her  bunkerbuster1   Apr-04-06 02:51 PM   #91 
   Thanks for reminding me of his name. I didn't have the time to do a search  OmmmSweetOmmm   Apr-04-06 02:48 PM   #85 
   Not true, you know...  Hard_Work   Apr-04-06 05:33 PM   #144 
      Well, I haven't seen polling from the time  bunkerbuster1   Apr-04-06 10:14 PM   #163 
   Yeah, that homophobic nutball Alan Keyes n/t  DrRang   Apr-04-06 02:01 PM   #40 
   Great minds think alike. LOL!  fooj   Apr-04-06 02:50 PM   #88 
      lol fooj!!!!!!!  OmmmSweetOmmm   Apr-04-06 03:20 PM   #111 
   Obama= premature ejaculation  OutsidetheBox   Apr-04-06 01:30 PM   #13 
   If he's not careful, he's going to go the way of his mentor  Norquist Nemesis   Apr-04-06 01:31 PM   #14 
   His mentor was Lieberman, isn't that what he said?  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:33 PM   #18 
      Whether he was kidding or not  Norquist Nemesis   Apr-04-06 01:43 PM   #24 
      no. His mentor during many of his years in IL State House was Paul Simon  American liberal   Apr-05-06 01:01 AM   #165 
         We are speaking of what Lieberman said about it.  madfloridian   Apr-05-06 02:07 AM   #174 
   I'm am Very Unimpressed by This Man  stepnw1f   Apr-04-06 01:33 PM   #17 
   Did people read everything he said  qanda   Apr-04-06 01:38 PM   #21 
   Don't start the bash stuff. I used his own words. He said them.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:41 PM   #22 
   I asked a question to the other posters  qanda   Apr-04-06 01:48 PM   #30 
   Students are people, not objects to be measured.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:51 PM   #33 
   You used the words a paper printed that he said, read the speech!  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 01:58 PM   #36 
      Oh, you beat me to it. Great comment. There are plenty of Obama  cantstandbush   Apr-04-06 06:54 PM   #152 
         I am a Obama basher because I questioned his words? Simplistic.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 06:58 PM   #153 
            What were his words, gimme a transcript!  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 12:18 AM   #190 
   It's difficult to read what Obama said as anything progressive.  BurtWorm   Apr-04-06 01:46 PM   #27 
      universal health care/universal education  ripple   Apr-04-06 03:45 PM   #120 
         The disparagement, or criticism, may come from people who don't  BurtWorm   Apr-04-06 04:13 PM   #128 
   The object here is to get rid of Rucking Fepublicans  warrens   Apr-04-06 01:42 PM   #23 
   So I am not to question when their policy hurts teachers and seniors?  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:44 PM   #25 
      And please continue to do so.  endarkenment   Apr-05-06 05:57 PM   #181 
   I guess I'm not seeing what is so bad about this.  SkinnerAdmin   Apr-04-06 01:47 PM   #28 
   Here is one part I hate.  endarkenment   Apr-04-06 01:56 PM   #34 
   I agree that basing teacher pay on test scores is bad policy.  SkinnerAdmin   Apr-04-06 02:05 PM   #41 
   I was speaking of seniors' safety nets.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:11 PM   #47 
   Where does Obama talk about privatizing social security?  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 02:31 PM   #66 
      Uh, that is what is on the table now.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:35 PM   #70 
         The goal of the admin  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 02:39 PM   #76 
   What if merit increases aren't based on the scores themselves,  antfarm   Apr-04-06 02:55 PM   #96 
      If it is "on improvement by students" as measured by test scores  endarkenment   Apr-04-06 04:37 PM   #131 
         How do you measure improvement?  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 01:30 AM   #200 
   Want proof on UHC? Look at the Clintons' plan, 1994  no name no slogan   Apr-04-06 03:58 PM   #122 
   Precisely.  endarkenment   Apr-04-06 04:42 PM   #132 
   But he doesn't say pay should be based on test scores. . .  brensgrrl   Apr-05-06 01:43 AM   #170 
   You need the whole paragraph to get the full meaning of what I wrote.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:59 PM   #37 
   I disagree.  SkinnerAdmin   Apr-04-06 02:07 PM   #43 
   They mean privatize.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:12 PM   #48 
   Yes....that's worrisome that Dems would be infavor of considering  KoKo01   Apr-04-06 03:18 PM   #110 
   Obama isn't talking privatization  ripple   Apr-04-06 03:59 PM   #123 
      Agree--  brensgrrl   Apr-05-06 01:47 AM   #172 
   Is that what Obama is saying?  Telly Savalas   Apr-05-06 11:32 PM   #188 
   I agree with Skinner  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 02:14 PM   #53 
   Not with this bunch in power.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:23 PM   #57 
   Come on, Skinner.  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:21 PM   # 
   Where does he embrace corporatism or advocate privatization?  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 02:24 PM   #60 
      Give me your interpretation of this sentence:  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:26 PM   # 
      My interpretation is  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 02:36 PM   #73 
         That's a good try, but that's not what he said.  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:47 PM   #83 
            hahahahaha  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 02:59 PM   #103 
      I am speaking of "safety nets". Social Security and Medicare.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:27 PM   #63 
         And Obama has never advocated privatization  tishaLA   Apr-04-06 02:46 PM   #81 
            Exactlly so.  incapsulated   Apr-04-06 02:50 PM   #87 
            Glad to hear that.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:54 PM   #94 
               He's criticizing dems who defend which programs?  tishaLA   Apr-04-06 03:16 PM   #108 
                  I stand by my OP. It was clear, it was honest.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 04:46 PM   #133 
                     By that standard, we should stand by the same  tishaLA   Apr-04-06 05:29 PM   #143 
                        Medicare and Social Security should be precious to our Democrats.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 05:47 PM   #145 
                           They are to Obama  tishaLA   Apr-04-06 05:54 PM   #147 
                              Then why is he criticizing Dems who support the traditional programs?  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 06:06 PM   #149 
                                 Agnostic does not mean doubtful  tishaLA   Apr-04-06 06:16 PM   #151 
                                    But the ones he is willing to work with have one goal...  madfloridian   Apr-05-06 11:39 PM   #189 
                                       Where O WHERE does he EVER say he's giving in to the pukes?  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 12:28 AM   #192 
                                          He criticized Democrats who support the safety nets.  madfloridian   Apr-06-06 01:26 AM   #199 
                                             The bush gang's days are numbered  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 01:46 AM   #205 
   Defending Social Security....just the way it is....what's wrong with that?  KoKo01   Apr-04-06 03:17 PM   #109 
   I agree with you wholeheartedly, Skinner  American liberal   Apr-05-06 01:29 AM   #167 
   Maybe we need a NEW safety net?  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 02:32 PM   #68 
   It is his reference to "safety nets" that bothered me.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:06 PM   #42 
   I seriously doubt that Obama is suggesting that we should just  SkinnerAdmin   Apr-04-06 02:09 PM   #45 
      Sorry Skinner: Obama is proof positive that there is no black/white...  Tyler Durden   Apr-04-06 02:13 PM   #50 
         I live in IL. I voted for Obama. I still cautiously support him. Here's...  American liberal   Apr-05-06 01:17 AM   #166 
            You almost had me convinced.  endarkenment   Apr-05-06 05:51 PM   #180 
               And do you know Obama's history?  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 12:47 AM   #194 
                  As I said  endarkenment   Apr-06-06 10:29 AM   #209 
   There IS a difference in the way health care is done.  FlaGranny   Apr-04-06 02:23 PM   #56 
   Politicians "believe in" universal health care...when they're campaigning.  leftstreet   Apr-04-06 04:17 PM   #129 
   I know what you're saying, but I think Obama is twisting...  Iowa   Apr-04-06 09:03 PM   #159 
   In follow-up to my previous post - take a look at this article...  Iowa   Apr-05-06 02:44 AM   #175 
   In one county teachers are fighting back again merit pay. Rally this week.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 01:48 PM   #29 
   Read my other post and you will see why I back merit pay for teachers. . .  brensgrrl   Apr-05-06 01:53 AM   #173 
   He's too smart for this country, and its electorate....  BlooInBloo   Apr-04-06 01:48 PM   #31 
   thats fair  melissinha   Apr-04-06 06:07 PM   #150 
   I'm fine with it being for sale to those best able to deliver....  BlooInBloo   Apr-04-06 07:04 PM   #154 
      The quotes were in the article: not my quotes. I don't make things up.  madfloridian   Apr-05-06 06:22 PM   #182 
         They are not full quotes, just a reporters spin on them  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 01:00 AM   #196 
            If they have quotation marks, DU generally accepts them as quotes.  madfloridian   Apr-06-06 01:34 AM   #202 
               I don't make DU policy, I have no doubt he said those words  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 01:53 AM   #206 
   Thank you. My sentiments exactly.  American liberal   Apr-05-06 01:33 AM   #168 
   What the fuck is with him?  lonestarnot   Apr-04-06 01:50 PM   #32 
   With JUST that comment on SS, I agree with you, but I don't know  napi21   Apr-04-06 01:56 PM   #35 
   He is offically on my "not good Dem" list  jsamuel   Apr-04-06 02:00 PM   #38 
   Obama is not DLC  ripple   Apr-04-06 02:09 PM   #46 
   God forbid any of you actually read his entire policy statements  incapsulated   Apr-04-06 02:13 PM   #49 
   Wow, someone in touch with reality  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 02:29 PM   #65 
   Thank you  ripple   Apr-04-06 02:35 PM   #71 
   Those quotes are not even IN his speech  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 02:40 PM   #77 
      I have a link to the speech in my post, I think those quotes...  incapsulated   Apr-04-06 02:45 PM   #79 
         I don't hate Obama, never criticized him before.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:59 PM   #102 
         Disagree with what, exactly?  incapsulated   Apr-04-06 03:07 PM   #106 
            Oops! Look what a little truth will do  qanda   Apr-04-06 04:09 PM   #127 
            He criticized Democrats who support the safety nets.  madfloridian   Apr-05-06 06:23 PM   #183 
               He criticized Democrats who are satisfied with the status quo  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 01:04 AM   #197 
                  No, he criticized them for this:  madfloridian   Apr-06-06 01:35 AM   #203 
                     AND  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 02:10 AM   #208 
                        That is not MY argument...that is your argument.  madfloridian   Apr-06-06 11:28 AM   #212 
                           That is not MY argument... that is Obama's argument.  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 11:50 AM   #217 
         Agreed, from a Q & A afterwards  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 03:03 PM   #105 
         Do you have the Q&A quotes in context?  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 04:33 PM   #130 
            Ask the AP  incapsulated   Apr-04-06 05:05 PM   #138 
            He said he is "agnostic" on how we reach the goal of the safety net.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 05:14 PM   #141 
            Do you have the quotes IN context?  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 09:55 PM   #162 
   er... do you know what "agnostic" means?  AchtungToddler   Apr-04-06 02:13 PM   #51 
   Yes- having no opinion, i.e., having no opinion as to  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:24 PM   #59 
   Yes.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:25 PM   #61 
      See above.  AchtungToddler   Apr-04-06 04:05 PM   #126 
   Yeahhhhh....those quotes don't make me feel good about this guy. nt  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:14 PM   #52 
   Why is he beginning to sound so corporatist?  BrklynLiberal   Apr-04-06 02:15 PM   #54 
   That "social safety net" is a lifeline. Let it not be taken lightly.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:21 PM   #55 
   I never found him at all appealing  Ms. Clio   Apr-04-06 02:23 PM   #58 
   i have my questions about this guy!! n/t  flyarm   Apr-04-06 02:26 PM   #62 
   There is so much bullshit in this post.  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 02:27 PM   #64 
   I think this approach reminds people of Bill Clinton.  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:37 PM   #75 
      Look at what Obama has done.  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 02:43 PM   #78 
      Corporatist is a strong word.  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:50 PM   #86 
      Here's some wishy washy inoffensive corporatist rhetoric  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 02:50 PM   #89 
      I didn't say he was a plant. I said he was like Bill Clinton.  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:55 PM   #95 
      heavens  centristo   Apr-04-06 02:53 PM   #93 
         Continue to flush our country down the toilet, I guess.  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 02:56 PM   #98 
   Did any of you notice I referred mostly to senior's safety nets?  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:31 PM   #67 
   Nowhere does Obama advocate destroying the safety net.  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 02:35 PM   #72 
   He says he is "agnostic" about it.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:58 PM   #101 
      more distortion  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 03:00 PM   #104 
         You know what he said he was agnostic about. nt  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 03:07 PM   #107 
            I know what he said he was agnostic about  never cry wolf   Apr-04-06 03:29 PM   #113 
            Yes! nt  BullGooseLoony   Apr-04-06 03:33 PM   #115 
            Yes. That's totally different than  Radical Activist   Apr-05-06 01:25 PM   #177 
            The methods whereby we protect the safety net.  Radical Activist   Apr-04-06 03:29 PM   #114 
   You were quite clear, and I agree with you completely.  Shakespeare   Apr-04-06 02:47 PM   #84 
      Thanks so much so reading my post carefully.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:55 PM   #97 
      Help me out here.  Telly Savalas   Apr-05-06 11:29 PM   #187 
      Yes and Madfloridan should trust her intuition  Generator   Apr-04-06 03:26 PM   #112 
      Correct, you do not compromise with these guys.  madfloridian   Apr-05-06 01:36 AM   #169 
         He NEVER said he would compromise, he is their worst nightmare  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 12:58 AM   #195 
      I'm there too  indigo32   Apr-04-06 03:42 PM   #119 
   That social safety net built the middle class.  Shakespeare   Apr-04-06 02:46 PM   #82 
   Correct, and the GOP is out to demolish them.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 04:50 PM   #134 
   i don't understand your position  centristo   Apr-04-06 02:52 PM   #92 
   Those positions are vital to me as Democrat.  madfloridian   Apr-04-06 02:57 PM   #99 
   They are already privatizing Medicare, look at part D.  madfloridian   Apr-05-06 06:25 PM   #184 
   I'd settle for a devious politician if  PATRICK   Apr-04-06 02:57 PM   #100 
   Excellent post  msgadget   Apr-04-06 04:02 PM   #125 
   Now that I have read many of your posts, I am compelled to kick it up...  American liberal   Apr-05-06 01:47 AM   #171 
   Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm yet more disappointing words from Obama....  truebrit71   Apr-04-06 03:35 PM   #116 
   "The DLC is setting policy, not listening to the people..."  msgadget   Apr-04-06 04:00 PM   #124 
   Another Lebermann  Ksec   Apr-04-06 04:52 PM   #135 
   He's confused, core values= safety net  melissinha   Apr-04-06 05:58 PM   #148 
   the core values he cited are NOT part of the safety net  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 12:35 AM   #193 
   It could be as simple as this......  KoKo01   Apr-04-06 07:55 PM   #156 
   As soon as the entire punditocracy started praising Obama...  Marr   Apr-04-06 08:01 PM   #157 
   Looks like another example of poor judgment  depakid   Apr-04-06 08:15 PM   #158 
   Thought he was great in 2004 -- Now I can't stand the moderate fuck!!!  LaPera   Apr-04-06 09:06 PM   #160 
   Because he says we should stand for core democratic values?  Radical Activist   Apr-05-06 01:29 PM   #178 
      Selling out seniors to big business is not a core Dem value.  madfloridian   Apr-05-06 06:27 PM   #185 
         i believe you are  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 01:16 AM   #198 
         The reporter did the quotes, not me.  madfloridian   Apr-06-06 01:32 AM   #201 
            Merit pay and social security were not quoted, anywhere!  never cry wolf   Apr-06-06 02:05 AM   #207 
         If those were his words, which they were not.  Radical Activist   Apr-06-06 12:58 PM   #219 
   Et tu, Barack?  boobooday   Apr-04-06 09:09 PM   #161 
   Piss on him. The more I read, the more infuriated I am. There are  roguevalley   Apr-05-06 12:51 AM   #164 
   Why don't you read the entire statement  Radical Activist   Apr-05-06 01:32 PM   #179 
      you assume I didn't? As for the teachers, it will force more and more  roguevalley   Apr-05-06 10:45 PM   #186 
   My analogy: Obama rides the fence as if it were a wild bull...  stevietheman   Apr-06-06 12:24 AM   #191 
   what is wrong with public schools has a lot more to do funding  alarimer   Apr-06-06 11:06 AM   #210 
   Universal health care  alarimer   Apr-06-06 11:12 AM   #211 
   I hate it when politicians talk about education.  Plaid Adder   Apr-06-06 11:32 AM   #213 
   He's promoting Lieberman, what'd you expect?  JNelson6563   Apr-06-06 11:34 AM   #216 
   The corporate democrats obviously have his ear.  K-W   Apr-06-06 11:53 AM   #218 
   kick--this is what we'll get with DLC: just as screwed as by GOP  yurbud   Apr-06-06 04:21 PM   #220 
 

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