You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #13: Back to the 50s. Oh, did we never leave them? [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
Caro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. Back to the 50s. Oh, did we never leave them?
Here are some of the email exchanges on this topic.

Message from Paul V:

Caro, for the first time ever I must take exception to your items about the gender of those in the progressive media. There are two components:

1) The expectations that every endeavor in life must be equally represented by every possible human classification.

2) The implication that this intentional, to keep "the other' down or out.

Both are significant liberal ways of "thinking" far too often...

The lists almost made me laugh. First of all, the vast majority of men listed I have never even heard of! Me, a dyed in the wool liberal media wonk. Contrarily, I have at least a passing acquaintance of almost all of the women. What that list also tells me, is that the opportunity for a woman to break into the progressive media as a woman is a hell of a lot easier than for a man! Think about that, "you" have only a few women to compete against, men have a lot more other men. Before you say, "But 'I' am also competing against the men." that would only hold true if "you" were gender blind, and the hiring authorities were. Obviously, neither are.

Life is unfair. Unfair is not the same as unethical or immoral. If there was a law discriminating against women in the field, that is patently legally and ethically wrong. But there isn't...


My response

But what if it isnt intentional? What if its one of those insidious biases we dont even know we have? If thats the case, how will we ever get past it, if we dont acknowledge it? We used to call it consciousness raising in the 60s.

If you object to my criteria, or my inclusions in the list, why dont you make your own list? Id be interested to see the result.

All I ask is that I be evaluated on my own merits, but I dont think I am. I have some talent as a writer, and sometimes a unique perspective, but I havent been able to break down the formidable barriers against getting paid in this business. I dont consider it competing, I just want someone to take me seriously, despite the facts that Im female, almost 62 years old, live in flyover country, didnt go to an Ivy League college, and am not independently wealthy.

I want to be judged on the strength of my ideas and my ability to express them, but I dont think thats whats happening.

It doesnt take a law against something to make it ethically wrong. You know that.


Message from Alan R

Here's why: Women aren't applying for the positions.
It's that simple. No great sexist conspiracy to keep women down here.
In general, women aren't as attracted to careers in politics as men are.
In fact, if you adjust the figures to reflect the ratio of applicants, I believe you'll find that women actually have a BETTER chance of succeeding in political careers than men do. So no affirmative action is necessary.
Don't complain to men. It's not our fault that women aren't interested in politics.


My response

Better chance. Number of applicants. Uh huh. I showed you an actual list. You gave me hunches.

The members of the political message groups I belong to and the readers of MakeThemAccountable are at least 50% women.

Time to think up another hunch.


Message from Shirley J

Carolyn,

It must be terrible to be so insecure and have such low self-esteem. All you feminists are alike. You feel so very threatened and intimidated by anything that is male-dominated. Why is that? People like you make me ashamed and embarrassed to be a woman. I couldn't care less if something is dominated by males. How come it bothers you so much? What is the big deal? Who cares? You and your ilk act as if it is always a bad thing for something to be male-dominated. What is really pathetic about you is that you act as if you live in some fantasy world where you expect everything to be equal. People are not equal. They never have been, and they never will be. As much as you hate to admit it, men and women are DIFFERENT! THEY ARE NOT EQUAL! The world has never been equal for everybody and it never will be. Why can't you accept that and stop living in a dream world?...


My response

Well, Shirley, I guess those slaves on the plantations, shucking and jiving and singing their hymns, were having just a great time, too.

Maybe my concern has something to do with needing to eat from time to time. And have a roof over my head. And, God forbid, go to the doctor every now and then. And I want to be able to do that by working for pay in an area where I have a bit of talent and a lot of passion.

What I want is an equal chance, not an equal result.

Yes, that definitely makes me sick in the head.


Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC