Douglas Carpenter
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Sun Jan-08-06 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #89 |
| 105. Canada has 32.8% unionized work force//US 13.8% |
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Edited on Sun Jan-08-06 08:51 AM by Douglas Carpenter
unions in Canada enjoy considerably more political influence than in the U.S. this is highly evidenced by Canadian law which is considerably more pro-union than the U.S. both in its content and enforcement. The very fact that Canada has a major political party which is to a large degree a labor party shows the extent of union influence in the Canadian body politic. Both the legislating and enforcement of law whether safety laws or any other requires a vigilant constituency to lobby and exert pressure. The only major lobby for fair treatment of workers in modern society are unions. http://www.dti.gov.uk/ER/emar/errs29.pdf http://www.justlabour.yorku.ca/Livingstone_Raykov.pdf |
| -All those who think unions have outlived their usefulness, need |
B Calm |
Jan-04-06 02:34 PM |
#0 |
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they can't be |
northzax |
Jan-04-06 02:39 PM |
#1 |
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Can they sue in federal court? |
Lindacooks |
Jan-04-06 02:42 PM |
#2 |
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it would be tough |
northzax |
Jan-04-06 02:52 PM |
#5 |
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Weren't there some federal violations though? |
Realityhack |
Jan-04-06 04:57 PM |
#47 |
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I would think that the miners' families would have a good |
China_cat |
Jan-04-06 03:06 PM |
#14 |
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nope, prior health and safety violations aren't legally relevant |
northzax |
Jan-04-06 03:11 PM |
#19 |
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how about federal law? |
Realityhack |
Jan-04-06 04:58 PM |
#48 |
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someone reported a week before this that there was fumes in the |
roguevalley |
Jan-04-06 03:15 PM |
#23 |
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I hope the families take revenge, then. |
Ilsa |
Jan-04-06 04:15 PM |
#33 |
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They had over 100 health and safety citations in 2005 ALONE |
in_cog_ni_to |
Jan-05-06 10:23 AM |
#68 |
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The company will fold |
DPirate |
Jan-06-06 02:41 AM |
#88 |
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I believe that with all the Corporate sins these days, |
KarenS |
Jan-04-06 02:43 PM |
#3 |
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I agree |
Ksec |
Jan-04-06 02:52 PM |
#6 |
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Unions should push for personhood rights like the corps. have. |
CrispyQGirl |
Jan-04-06 03:07 PM |
#15 |
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I think there is a negative side to unions |
undeterred |
Jan-04-06 02:51 PM |
#4 |
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on the other hand, if the company is not doing well, lay off thousands |
LSK |
Jan-04-06 02:58 PM |
#9 |
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Yeah, But That Happens In Unionized Companies Too |
ProfessorGAC |
Jan-05-06 10:19 AM |
#67 |
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I have been in union jobs - and non-union - and agree the defense of the |
papau |
Jan-04-06 02:58 PM |
#10 |
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That argument is only good if one believes |
Ksec |
Jan-04-06 03:05 PM |
#13 |
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I agree - the non-union world is grossly unfair to good workers - and ave |
papau |
Jan-04-06 03:16 PM |
#24 |
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Exactly |
PATRICK |
Jan-05-06 10:09 AM |
#66 |
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What you describe can happen in non-union shops also |
AllieB |
Jan-04-06 03:02 PM |
#12 |
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Unions are NOT now, |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-04-06 03:09 PM |
#17 |
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Hi! I'd like to reply to your statements. :) |
Dyedinthewoolliberal |
Jan-04-06 03:12 PM |
#20 |
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Well Said |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-04-06 03:17 PM |
#26 |
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yes, you'd think people would like unions |
Bill McBlueState |
Jan-04-06 05:02 PM |
#49 |
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And how many "good" employees did it protect? |
EC |
Jan-04-06 03:13 PM |
#21 |
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Wow- I'm not against unions |
undeterred |
Jan-04-06 04:07 PM |
#30 |
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When I worked with a union, it was difficult to fire an employee, but |
CrispyQGirl |
Jan-04-06 04:33 PM |
#39 |
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I've been fired a couple of times from an employee position |
undeterred |
Jan-04-06 04:43 PM |
#41 |
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My union experience was prior to "at will" employment clauses. |
CrispyQGirl |
Jan-04-06 04:52 PM |
#43 |
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I totally agree with you on that |
undeterred |
Jan-04-06 04:57 PM |
#46 |
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Unions are like our legal system. They exist for our protection (ideally) |
MercutioATC |
Jan-04-06 05:40 PM |
#52 |
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not a reason to hate unions |
Djinn |
Jan-06-06 02:30 AM |
#85 |
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there are many more negative sides to not having unions, |
rman |
Jan-06-06 09:05 AM |
#96 |
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I've seen more dysfunctional lazy worthless employees on the side |
B Calm |
Jan-08-06 04:32 AM |
#101 |
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Nothing is perfect, but I think |
truth2power |
Jan-08-06 10:01 AM |
#106 |
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progressives are always on the side of unions |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-04-06 02:54 PM |
#7 |
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Amen!! |
mycritters2 |
Jan-04-06 02:56 PM |
#8 |
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Amen! |
papau |
Jan-04-06 02:59 PM |
#11 |
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I find this both a judgmental and foolish thing to say. |
lostinacause |
Jan-04-06 03:46 PM |
#29 |
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I don't think the benefit is much in doubt |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-04-06 04:19 PM |
#34 |
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Why do you believe collective bargaining is a right? |
lostinacause |
Jan-05-06 01:45 AM |
#54 |
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because the alternative is powerlessness |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-05-06 05:48 AM |
#64 |
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So then wouldn't equality be the human right? Unions being perceived |
lostinacause |
Jan-05-06 09:25 AM |
#65 |
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it certainly has played a large role in achieving equality |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-05-06 10:33 AM |
#71 |
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You haven't answered my question |
lostinacause |
Jan-06-06 01:43 AM |
#82 |
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legislation has its limits |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-06-06 01:55 AM |
#83 |
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Law requier both the proper incentives and enforcements. It is not |
lostinacause |
Jan-06-06 02:44 AM |
#89 |
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Canada has 32.8% unionized work force//US 13.8% |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-08-06 08:44 AM |
#105 |
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From public policy perspective all of these things could be achieved by |
lostinacause |
Jan-05-06 02:22 AM |
#55 |
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only looking at what actually exist in the real world |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-05-06 03:42 AM |
#58 |
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cost involves perspective. |
druidity33 |
Jan-05-06 10:45 AM |
#72 |
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thanks for your points |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-05-06 01:38 PM |
#73 |
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Dental funds and emergency loan funds are true gains. |
lostinacause |
Jan-06-06 02:35 AM |
#86 |
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more... |
druidity33 |
Jan-06-06 04:58 PM |
#100 |
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With close to 300 OSHA violations at this non union mine in the |
B Calm |
Jan-05-06 02:41 PM |
#76 |
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What exactly are OSHA violations? |
lostinacause |
Jan-06-06 03:19 AM |
#91 |
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Occupational Safety & Health Administration find usafe |
B Calm |
Jan-06-06 04:41 AM |
#94 |
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I don't buy your arguments about the "costs" of unions |
fishwax |
Jan-06-06 02:27 AM |
#84 |
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Think of unions as an institution that creates certain incentives. |
lostinacause |
Jan-06-06 03:18 AM |
#90 |
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no, that still doesn't work |
fishwax |
Jan-06-06 12:18 PM |
#98 |
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because progressives are usually the blue collar worker or middle class |
flyarm |
Jan-08-06 04:57 AM |
#103 |
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Support for unions will help |
mycritters2 |
Jan-04-06 03:08 PM |
#16 |
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Hateful things about the faith of miners? |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-04-06 03:11 PM |
#18 |
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I think you are referring to people who make broad anti-religious comments |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-04-06 03:16 PM |
#25 |
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Thanks for making my point |
mycritters2 |
Jan-04-06 04:22 PM |
#35 |
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as Bill Clinton would say |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-04-06 04:23 PM |
#37 |
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I think that part of that anti-religion stuff is keyboard bravado. |
davsand |
Jan-04-06 05:39 PM |
#51 |
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keyboard bravado - like that phrase |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-05-06 01:50 PM |
#74 |
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I'm a progressive, liberal Christian and I've |
liberalhistorian |
Jan-05-06 02:36 AM |
#57 |
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It's one of the few allowable prejudices left |
LittleClarkie |
Jan-04-06 04:23 PM |
#36 |
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well the girth one gets to me too...even when it's about Republicans |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-04-06 04:34 PM |
#40 |
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You missed one |
LittleClarkie |
Jan-04-06 04:50 PM |
#42 |
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thanks -- I will save it on my list |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-04-06 04:52 PM |
#44 |
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here's another one |
Bill McBlueState |
Jan-04-06 05:08 PM |
#50 |
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Amen brother! |
Appalachian_American |
Jan-05-06 02:30 AM |
#56 |
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Labor must organize globally |
leftstreet |
Jan-04-06 03:13 PM |
#22 |
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certainly, organizing right need to be taken up in trade agreements |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-04-06 04:12 PM |
#31 |
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That is unlikely as of now. Trade agreements don't have policies |
lostinacause |
Jan-06-06 03:23 AM |
#92 |
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Opposite is happening because unions are considered to be "trade barriers" |
rman |
Jan-06-06 07:28 AM |
#95 |
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This is one of the few reasons why I still support unions. |
Dongfang Hong |
Jan-04-06 03:17 PM |
#27 |
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A. NYC was not shut down |
LincolnMcGrath |
Jan-04-06 03:23 PM |
#28 |
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and even if it had been, it would be the fault of management |
fishwax |
Jan-06-06 02:37 AM |
#87 |
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tort reform and deregulation, don't you know |
leftofthedial |
Jan-04-06 04:13 PM |
#32 |
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K & R! |
dumpbush |
Jan-04-06 04:25 PM |
#38 |
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And the administration and congress get sued to for lack of |
Skidmore |
Jan-04-06 04:54 PM |
#45 |
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amen |
B Calm |
Jan-04-06 06:37 PM |
#53 |
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My union experiences |
Indy_Dem_Defender |
Jan-05-06 03:51 AM |
#59 |
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Didn't UPS go on strike in defense of part time employee's? |
B Calm |
Jan-05-06 04:30 AM |
#60 |
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I have heard this before and I think it may be due to the fact |
bleedingheart |
Jan-05-06 04:40 AM |
#61 |
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I totally agree! The union is only as strong as their membership! |
B Calm |
Jan-05-06 04:49 AM |
#62 |
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I think this was one of the reasons the SEIU broke off from the |
bleedingheart |
Jan-05-06 04:54 AM |
#63 |
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Do the math correctly... |
dumpbush |
Jan-05-06 04:30 PM |
#80 |
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reply to dumpbush |
Indy_Dem_Defender |
Jan-06-06 03:49 AM |
#93 |
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disUnited Serfs of Amerika |
greyhound1966 |
Jan-05-06 10:26 AM |
#69 |
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UNIONS NEED TO BE MUCH STRONGER |
savemefromdumbya |
Jan-05-06 10:29 AM |
#70 |
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absolutely |
Douglas Carpenter |
Jan-05-06 01:58 PM |
#75 |
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whoa - some unions HAVE outlived their usefulness. |
antifaschits |
Jan-05-06 03:26 PM |
#77 |
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You have any examples of this in the last ten years, or are you just |
B Calm |
Jan-05-06 03:50 PM |
#78 |
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hell no. Chicago is a union town. Most, not all, are decent. but for the |
antifaschits |
Jan-05-06 04:02 PM |
#79 |
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if regulatory agencies were allowed to enforce |
melissinha |
Jan-05-06 04:56 PM |
#81 |
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Has any of the media coverage even mentioned the unions? |
Strawman |
Jan-06-06 09:15 AM |
#97 |
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The media has been very quiet about placing blame on this |
B Calm |
Jan-06-06 03:31 PM |
#99 |
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alaska air is a perfect example as well3 incidents with non union |
flyarm |
Jan-08-06 04:45 AM |
#102 |
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AA and US AIR |
Pavulon |
Jan-08-06 10:14 AM |
#107 |
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That and Walmart, and several other retail chains |
mutley_r_us |
Jan-08-06 05:30 AM |
#104 |
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