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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. as Bill Clinton would say
Edited on Wed Jan-04-06 04:27 PM by Douglas Carpenter
"I feel your pain". I have found the whole thing terribly unfair
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  -All those who think unions have outlived their usefulness, need B Calm  Jan-04-06 02:34 PM   #0 
  - they can't be  northzax   Jan-04-06 02:39 PM   #1 
  - Can they sue in federal court?  Lindacooks   Jan-04-06 02:42 PM   #2 
  - it would be tough  northzax   Jan-04-06 02:52 PM   #5 
     - Weren't there some federal violations though?  Realityhack   Jan-04-06 04:57 PM   #47 
  - I would think that the miners' families would have a good  China_cat   Jan-04-06 03:06 PM   #14 
  - nope, prior health and safety violations aren't legally relevant  northzax   Jan-04-06 03:11 PM   #19 
     - how about federal law?  Realityhack   Jan-04-06 04:58 PM   #48 
  - someone reported a week before this that there was fumes in the  roguevalley   Jan-04-06 03:15 PM   #23 
  - I hope the families take revenge, then.  Ilsa   Jan-04-06 04:15 PM   #33 
  - They had over 100 health and safety citations in 2005 ALONE  in_cog_ni_to   Jan-05-06 10:23 AM   #68 
  - The company will fold  DPirate   Jan-06-06 02:41 AM   #88 
  - I believe that with all the Corporate sins these days,  KarenS   Jan-04-06 02:43 PM   #3 
  - I agree  Ksec   Jan-04-06 02:52 PM   #6 
  - Unions should push for personhood rights like the corps. have.  CrispyQGirl   Jan-04-06 03:07 PM   #15 
  - I think there is a negative side to unions  undeterred   Jan-04-06 02:51 PM   #4 
  - on the other hand, if the company is not doing well, lay off thousands  LSK   Jan-04-06 02:58 PM   #9 
  - Yeah, But That Happens In Unionized Companies Too  ProfessorGAC   Jan-05-06 10:19 AM   #67 
  - I have been in union jobs - and non-union - and agree the defense of the  papau   Jan-04-06 02:58 PM   #10 
  - That argument is only good if one believes  Ksec   Jan-04-06 03:05 PM   #13 
  - I agree - the non-union world is grossly unfair to good workers - and ave  papau   Jan-04-06 03:16 PM   #24 
  - Exactly  PATRICK   Jan-05-06 10:09 AM   #66 
  - What you describe can happen in non-union shops also  AllieB   Jan-04-06 03:02 PM   #12 
  - Unions are NOT now,  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-04-06 03:09 PM   #17 
  - Hi! I'd like to reply to your statements. :)  Dyedinthewoolliberal   Jan-04-06 03:12 PM   #20 
  - Well Said  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-04-06 03:17 PM   #26 
  - yes, you'd think people would like unions  Bill McBlueState   Jan-04-06 05:02 PM   #49 
  - And how many "good" employees did it protect?  EC   Jan-04-06 03:13 PM   #21 
  - Wow- I'm not against unions  undeterred   Jan-04-06 04:07 PM   #30 
  - When I worked with a union, it was difficult to fire an employee, but  CrispyQGirl   Jan-04-06 04:33 PM   #39 
     - I've been fired a couple of times from an employee position  undeterred   Jan-04-06 04:43 PM   #41 
        - My union experience was prior to "at will" employment clauses.  CrispyQGirl   Jan-04-06 04:52 PM   #43 
           - I totally agree with you on that  undeterred   Jan-04-06 04:57 PM   #46 
  - Unions are like our legal system. They exist for our protection (ideally)  MercutioATC   Jan-04-06 05:40 PM   #52 
  - not a reason to hate unions  Djinn   Jan-06-06 02:30 AM   #85 
  - there are many more negative sides to not having unions,  rman   Jan-06-06 09:05 AM   #96 
  - I've seen more dysfunctional lazy worthless employees on the side  B Calm   Jan-08-06 04:32 AM   #101 
  - Nothing is perfect, but I think  truth2power   Jan-08-06 10:01 AM   #106 
  - progressives are always on the side of unions  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-04-06 02:54 PM   #7 
  - Amen!!  mycritters2   Jan-04-06 02:56 PM   #8 
  - Amen!  papau   Jan-04-06 02:59 PM   #11 
  - I find this both a judgmental and foolish thing to say.  lostinacause   Jan-04-06 03:46 PM   #29 
  - I don't think the benefit is much in doubt  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-04-06 04:19 PM   #34 
     - Why do you believe collective bargaining is a right?  lostinacause   Jan-05-06 01:45 AM   #54 
     - because the alternative is powerlessness  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-05-06 05:48 AM   #64 
        - So then wouldn't equality be the human right? Unions being perceived  lostinacause   Jan-05-06 09:25 AM   #65 
           - it certainly has played a large role in achieving equality  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-05-06 10:33 AM   #71 
              - You haven't answered my question  lostinacause   Jan-06-06 01:43 AM   #82 
                 - legislation has its limits  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-06-06 01:55 AM   #83 
                    - Law requier both the proper incentives and enforcements. It is not  lostinacause   Jan-06-06 02:44 AM   #89 
                       - Canada has 32.8% unionized work force//US 13.8%  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-08-06 08:44 AM   #105 
     - From public policy perspective all of these things could be achieved by  lostinacause   Jan-05-06 02:22 AM   #55 
        - only looking at what actually exist in the real world  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-05-06 03:42 AM   #58 
        - cost involves perspective.  druidity33   Jan-05-06 10:45 AM   #72 
        - thanks for your points  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-05-06 01:38 PM   #73 
        - Dental funds and emergency loan funds are true gains.  lostinacause   Jan-06-06 02:35 AM   #86 
           - more...  druidity33   Jan-06-06 04:58 PM   #100 
        - With close to 300 OSHA violations at this non union mine in the  B Calm   Jan-05-06 02:41 PM   #76 
        - What exactly are OSHA violations?  lostinacause   Jan-06-06 03:19 AM   #91 
           - Occupational Safety & Health Administration find usafe  B Calm   Jan-06-06 04:41 AM   #94 
        - I don't buy your arguments about the "costs" of unions  fishwax   Jan-06-06 02:27 AM   #84 
           - Think of unions as an institution that creates certain incentives.  lostinacause   Jan-06-06 03:18 AM   #90 
              - no, that still doesn't work  fishwax   Jan-06-06 12:18 PM   #98 
  - because progressives are usually the blue collar worker or middle class  flyarm   Jan-08-06 04:57 AM   #103 
  - Support for unions will help  mycritters2   Jan-04-06 03:08 PM   #16 
  - Hateful things about the faith of miners?  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-04-06 03:11 PM   #18 
  - I think you are referring to people who make broad anti-religious comments  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-04-06 03:16 PM   #25 
     - Thanks for making my point  mycritters2   Jan-04-06 04:22 PM   #35 
     - as Bill Clinton would say  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-04-06 04:23 PM   #37 
     - I think that part of that anti-religion stuff is keyboard bravado.  davsand   Jan-04-06 05:39 PM   #51 
     - keyboard bravado - like that phrase  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-05-06 01:50 PM   #74 
     - I'm a progressive, liberal Christian and I've  liberalhistorian   Jan-05-06 02:36 AM   #57 
     - It's one of the few allowable prejudices left  LittleClarkie   Jan-04-06 04:23 PM   #36 
        - well the girth one gets to me too...even when it's about Republicans  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-04-06 04:34 PM   #40 
        - You missed one  LittleClarkie   Jan-04-06 04:50 PM   #42 
           - thanks -- I will save it on my list  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-04-06 04:52 PM   #44 
        - here's another one  Bill McBlueState   Jan-04-06 05:08 PM   #50 
           - Amen brother!  Appalachian_American   Jan-05-06 02:30 AM   #56 
  - Labor must organize globally  leftstreet   Jan-04-06 03:13 PM   #22 
  - certainly, organizing right need to be taken up in trade agreements  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-04-06 04:12 PM   #31 
     - That is unlikely as of now. Trade agreements don't have policies  lostinacause   Jan-06-06 03:23 AM   #92 
     - Opposite is happening because unions are considered to be "trade barriers"  rman   Jan-06-06 07:28 AM   #95 
  - This is one of the few reasons why I still support unions.  Dongfang Hong   Jan-04-06 03:17 PM   #27 
  - A. NYC was not shut down  LincolnMcGrath   Jan-04-06 03:23 PM   #28 
     - and even if it had been, it would be the fault of management  fishwax   Jan-06-06 02:37 AM   #87 
  - tort reform and deregulation, don't you know  leftofthedial   Jan-04-06 04:13 PM   #32 
  - K & R!  dumpbush   Jan-04-06 04:25 PM   #38 
  - And the administration and congress get sued to for lack of  Skidmore   Jan-04-06 04:54 PM   #45 
  - amen  B Calm   Jan-04-06 06:37 PM   #53 
  - My union experiences  Indy_Dem_Defender   Jan-05-06 03:51 AM   #59 
  - Didn't UPS go on strike in defense of part time employee's?  B Calm   Jan-05-06 04:30 AM   #60 
  - I have heard this before and I think it may be due to the fact  bleedingheart   Jan-05-06 04:40 AM   #61 
  - I totally agree! The union is only as strong as their membership!  B Calm   Jan-05-06 04:49 AM   #62 
     - I think this was one of the reasons the SEIU broke off from the  bleedingheart   Jan-05-06 04:54 AM   #63 
  - Do the math correctly...  dumpbush   Jan-05-06 04:30 PM   #80 
     - reply to dumpbush  Indy_Dem_Defender   Jan-06-06 03:49 AM   #93 
  - disUnited Serfs of Amerika  greyhound1966   Jan-05-06 10:26 AM   #69 
  - UNIONS NEED TO BE MUCH STRONGER  savemefromdumbya   Jan-05-06 10:29 AM   #70 
  - absolutely  Douglas Carpenter   Jan-05-06 01:58 PM   #75 
  - whoa - some unions HAVE outlived their usefulness.  antifaschits   Jan-05-06 03:26 PM   #77 
  - You have any examples of this in the last ten years, or are you just  B Calm   Jan-05-06 03:50 PM   #78 
     - hell no. Chicago is a union town. Most, not all, are decent. but for the  antifaschits   Jan-05-06 04:02 PM   #79 
  - if regulatory agencies were allowed to enforce  melissinha   Jan-05-06 04:56 PM   #81 
  - Has any of the media coverage even mentioned the unions?  Strawman   Jan-06-06 09:15 AM   #97 
  - The media has been very quiet about placing blame on this  B Calm   Jan-06-06 03:31 PM   #99 
  - alaska air is a perfect example as well3 incidents with non union  flyarm   Jan-08-06 04:45 AM   #102 
  - AA and US AIR  Pavulon   Jan-08-06 10:14 AM   #107 
  - That and Walmart, and several other retail chains  mutley_r_us   Jan-08-06 05:30 AM   #104 
 

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