manic expression
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Wed Jan-03-07 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
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it is possible for small businesses to survive, and possibly thrive, but small businesses a.) will never have the same power and influence and control as big businesses (the bourgeoisie) do; b.) will only be able to find niches and use them to stay afloat. These two points (among others) are essential, in that small businesses are what they are, and that is nothing remotely close to the force that the bourgeoisie is. It would be foolish to pretend small businesses don't exist, but it is a mistake to think of them as having a very significant role in society when it seems that big businesses do.
Also, for a small business to do well, it is up against enormous odds. That, in itself, is significant and is indicative of a system that is unacceptable.
First, if you define exploitation simply as being poor, that is not getting entirely all of the picture. While I would reserve "exploitation" for cases where it is more appropriate, a well paid worker still has their labor sold, which means many things. First, the wage can change; second, the labor of the worker is still being used by someone else (which is technically "exploitation", although I won't call it that), which lends for an unequal relationship between employer and employee (Marx said that even if workers got the same wage as their managers, it still wouldn't solve all the problems). So while good wages are great and beneficial in every way, this only tells part of the story. In addition to a relatively well-to-do worker still selling their labor, an important factor to recognize is the fact that the US is seeing an influx of affluence due to its position in the world. Imperialist actions, such as the ones in Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile, Greece, Cuba, Mexico, etc., etc.... have afforded the American market the ability to exploit other markets. The US creates the situation it wants in a certain market (through belligerent actions), and uses this situation to its advantage. Without imperialism, neoliberal trading policies and otherwise, workers would not be able to afford the benefits you cited.
I hope that makes sense. Thanks for the reply.
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| -Capitalism is a bright shiney apple |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 04:57 PM |
#0 |
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capitalism is a great tool, it's just a very bad religion |
stevebreeze |
Jan-03-07 05:06 PM |
#1 |
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Capitalism unregulated |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 05:14 PM |
#3 |
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No, it really hasn't. People who don't give a damn about other people... |
originalpckelly |
Jan-03-07 05:46 PM |
#9 |
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we need to regulate corporations |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 06:05 PM |
#15 |
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I don't have a problem with capitalism. |
William769 |
Jan-03-07 05:14 PM |
#2 |
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Then lets regulate the corporations |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 05:15 PM |
#5 |
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The 2nd reason for the American Revolution was corporations |
William769 |
Jan-03-07 05:26 PM |
#7 |
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I know. We have no one else to blame but ourselves. |
originalpckelly |
Jan-03-07 05:53 PM |
#10 |
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You want to see Evil? |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 06:53 PM |
#36 |
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Thank you-May I also rebuke this nonsense |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 06:30 PM |
#22 |
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You wouldn't have a curiously stained copy of "Atlas Shrugged" lying... |
mitchum |
Jan-03-07 07:13 PM |
#46 |
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Nah! |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 07:22 PM |
#50 |
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You wouln't happen to have a conspicuously stained copy of |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 07:26 PM |
#54 |
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Hey Mitch Check Out The Comment In His Profile |
Binka |
Jan-05-07 04:13 AM |
#124 |
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Capitalism isn't the problem. Corporatism is. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 05:15 PM |
#4 |
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Yes, they've taken over our government |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 05:17 PM |
#6 |
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Corporatism is the problem. Capitalism isn't necessarily corporatism. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 05:54 PM |
#11 |
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It should not be called corporatism, it's fascism. Nothing more and nothing less. |
originalpckelly |
Jan-03-07 05:54 PM |
#12 |
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Fascism is just corporatism with a social agenda. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 05:55 PM |
#13 |
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And its inevitable consequence. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 06:31 PM |
#23 |
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A hammer can be used to build a house or kill a person. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 06:34 PM |
#24 |
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I understand your meaning |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 06:37 PM |
#25 |
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"An argument for the validity" of my analogy? |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 06:41 PM |
#29 |
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However |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 06:39 PM |
#27 |
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In your analogy, the hammer can mean whatever you want it to. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 06:49 PM |
#34 |
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Capitalism is not a tool, it is a system. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 06:51 PM |
#35 |
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You don't think a system can be a tool? |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 06:54 PM |
#37 |
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As a tool that can be directed? Not really. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 06:58 PM |
#40 |
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That's simply not true. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 07:03 PM |
#41 |
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No, there's a qualitative difference here that you aren't appreciating. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 07:06 PM |
#43 |
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That's a semantic difference. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 07:26 PM |
#55 |
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Only if you distort my meaning. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 07:35 PM |
#61 |
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Sorry, you're the one distorting the issue. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 07:48 PM |
#65 |
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No, it doesn't apply. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 08:13 PM |
#73 |
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Right, you insist that the conversation conform to your favored parameters. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 08:18 PM |
#77 |
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You have not shown the accuracy of your analogy. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 08:23 PM |
#80 |
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Your refusal to agree with my analogy doesn't make it inaccurate. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 08:40 PM |
#86 |
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As the other poster said |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 07:56 PM |
#68 |
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Now you're trying to redefine my analogy. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 08:10 PM |
#72 |
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You could say that |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 08:25 PM |
#82 |
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Again, you are trying to make my analogy do things it wasn't meant to do. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 08:37 PM |
#83 |
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OK |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 08:43 PM |
#90 |
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I disagree with your point then. Capitalism itself is not positive or negative. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 08:55 PM |
#92 |
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Capitalism is a system of naked exploitation |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 09:03 PM |
#93 |
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Yeah, if you get your definitions from anti-capitalist propaganda. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 09:17 PM |
#97 |
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Not really |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 09:49 PM |
#105 |
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Thanks for proving my point. - n/t |
porphyrian |
Jan-04-07 01:37 PM |
#113 |
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You didn't have one to begin with |
manic expression |
Jan-04-07 08:04 PM |
#117 |
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good show |
Clu |
Jan-05-07 06:32 AM |
#126 |
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yeah manic, |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 08:15 PM |
#74 |
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IA, when people are condemning capitalism, they are condemning |
treestar |
Jan-03-07 08:08 PM |
#70 |
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I think you're probably right. Oh well. Can't make people read dictionaries. - n/t |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 08:41 PM |
#87 |
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The problem is that "state assistance" has been a major feature of capitalism |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 08:45 PM |
#91 |
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Now you're attempting to redefine capitalism to your argument. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 09:04 PM |
#94 |
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No, I'm not. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 09:16 PM |
#95 |
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No, that is one result and isn't necessitated by the definition. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 09:37 PM |
#99 |
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So, tell me: |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 09:39 PM |
#100 |
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Misleading question. |
porphyrian |
Jan-03-07 09:48 PM |
#104 |
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Don't put words into my mouth. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 09:56 PM |
#108 |
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More semantics. I don't care what you believe. |
porphyrian |
Jan-04-07 09:52 AM |
#112 |
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The problem is lack of balance. |
Ron_Green |
Jan-03-07 05:29 PM |
#8 |
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What influence does the church have in the market? |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 06:00 PM |
#14 |
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The Church (I'm using the term in the broadest possible sense) |
Ron_Green |
Jan-03-07 06:14 PM |
#17 |
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OK |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 06:25 PM |
#20 |
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Comments do not distinguish between big and small business |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 06:40 PM |
#28 |
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I addressed what is called |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 07:05 PM |
#42 |
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Depends, If you are a mom and pop grocer and w-mart comes in... |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 07:20 PM |
#49 |
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Of course |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 07:49 PM |
#66 |
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yea,, but that is the deal. |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 08:17 PM |
#75 |
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That is one piece of the 'deal' |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 08:39 PM |
#85 |
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I appreciate the cordial debate. You are both genuine in your belief |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 09:17 PM |
#96 |
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You're welcome and thank you |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 09:42 PM |
#102 |
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Dude, you're awesome! |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 09:54 PM |
#106 |
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Why did you choose Che as your Avatar? |
Calhoon2007 |
Jan-03-07 09:26 PM |
#98 |
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I chose it when I first joined DU |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 09:56 PM |
#107 |
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Thanks - one more thought: |
Ron_Green |
Jan-03-07 06:45 PM |
#31 |
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Sure |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 07:31 PM |
#58 |
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Well said manic expression |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 06:47 PM |
#33 |
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Carlin says it all |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 06:10 PM |
#16 |
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OK Wrong clip |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 06:26 PM |
#21 |
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A Big Red, White, and Blue DICK being shoved up your... |
Say_What |
Jan-03-07 07:25 PM |
#52 |
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The core |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 06:14 PM |
#18 |
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and loaded with poison |
leftofthedial |
Jan-03-07 06:14 PM |
#19 |
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Capitalism is funamentally morally wrong. |
Odin2005 |
Jan-03-07 06:37 PM |
#26 |
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Yup |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 06:43 PM |
#30 |
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and the further down the line one is, the more one gets exploited... |
Say_What |
Jan-03-07 07:29 PM |
#57 |
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And sentencing the vast majority |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 06:47 PM |
#32 |
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not to mention the deaths its been responsible for under those US-Friendly Dictators... |
Say_What |
Jan-03-07 07:28 PM |
#56 |
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No, it doesn't, there will always be people trying to prey on others. |
originalpckelly |
Jan-03-07 08:42 PM |
#89 |
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With no corporate oversight & regulations it is rotten...The republicans, corporations and |
GreenTea |
Jan-03-07 06:55 PM |
#38 |
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I am only opposed to UNREGULATED capitalism. NT |
mondo joe |
Jan-03-07 06:56 PM |
#39 |
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It's amazing how people |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 07:09 PM |
#44 |
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So whats the alternative ? |
MazeRat7 |
Jan-03-07 07:11 PM |
#45 |
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reward for extra effort |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 07:19 PM |
#48 |
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I agree, but if capitalism has a rotten core, then what is the better alternative ? |
MazeRat7 |
Jan-03-07 07:25 PM |
#53 |
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Here are some alternative viewpoints |
manic expression |
Jan-03-07 08:06 PM |
#69 |
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Thank-you. Thats whats its all about ... "information". -nt |
MazeRat7 |
Jan-03-07 08:37 PM |
#84 |
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Just want to fix |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 08:09 PM |
#71 |
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I'm a fan of market socialism instead. |
Selatius |
Jan-03-07 07:16 PM |
#47 |
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That's sounds good |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 07:22 PM |
#51 |
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We can use the USSR as a reference point. |
Selatius |
Jan-03-07 07:34 PM |
#60 |
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Where would the capital for investment come from? n/t |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 07:37 PM |
#62 |
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Well, naturally that would be through profits the firms generate. |
Selatius |
Jan-03-07 07:40 PM |
#63 |
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Would newly-hired workers be given an equal share in the company? |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 07:53 PM |
#67 |
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A worker co-op wouldn't be a co-op if workers aren't given a share, would it? |
Selatius |
Jan-03-07 08:17 PM |
#76 |
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That's what I thought. |
Unvanguard |
Jan-03-07 08:42 PM |
#88 |
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2 points. |
Selatius |
Jan-04-07 12:04 AM |
#110 |
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And why would the new workers consent to that? |
Unvanguard |
Jan-04-07 01:44 PM |
#114 |
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Then the question I'd raise is why would it be any different? |
Selatius |
Jan-05-07 03:31 AM |
#118 |
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Oh by the way unvanguard |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 08:21 PM |
#78 |
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All capital is created by labor |
rman |
Jan-05-07 03:54 AM |
#119 |
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they sold of the USSR |
Pharaoh |
Jan-03-07 07:46 PM |
#64 |
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It's fundamentally a good system. |
HypnoToad |
Jan-03-07 07:33 PM |
#59 |
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Seems to me from what I've learned, its all pretty window dressing |
shance |
Jan-03-07 08:23 PM |
#79 |
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Capitalism is simply a lie really. It's not reality based. |
shance |
Jan-03-07 08:24 PM |
#81 |
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And which one is still around? |
William769 |
Jan-03-07 09:39 PM |
#101 |
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The USSR wasn't real Socialism, it was State Capitalism. |
Odin2005 |
Jan-04-07 04:18 PM |
#116 |
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It's capitalism or a habitable planet - you can't have both |
Jcrowley |
Jan-03-07 09:45 PM |
#103 |
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Capitalism and slavery |
Jcrowley |
Jan-03-07 09:58 PM |
#109 |
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Lets all increase our production. |
OxQQme |
Jan-04-07 01:10 AM |
#111 |
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"It had to be constantly fed or it would fall apart." |
NoMoreMyths |
Jan-05-07 04:31 AM |
#125 |
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Capitalism is the most powerful tool for creating ecoonomic growth and prosperity. |
Idioteque |
Jan-04-07 01:51 PM |
#115 |
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Just how "free" do you think the market should be? |
rman |
Jan-05-07 03:56 AM |
#120 |
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Again, I note that socialism and the free market are not mutually exclusive ideas |
Selatius |
Jan-05-07 03:58 AM |
#121 |
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But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao |
impeachdubya |
Jan-05-07 03:58 AM |
#122 |
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American corporate capitalism is evil. |
Vidar |
Jan-05-07 04:03 AM |
#123 |