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Reply #26: Thanks, I wasn't aware of that site. [View All]

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Shakespeare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks, I wasn't aware of that site.
Just to parse some words for anybody who reads that excerpt too quickly, when they say that he argues for the universality of the idea of the scapegoat, he's really not advocating for it; in fact, much of Violence and the Sacred examines how completely fucked up a society gets when the scapegoat concept goes horribly wrong (and ergo, moves from justice to vengeance, just to get us back to the OP topic).

It's deeply fascinating stuff--I agree with Girard that we seem to be hard-wired for this; it's how we as a thinking, caring society deals with that hard wiring that determines how successful we'll be as an enlightened society.

I look forward to exploring that site in detail.
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  -What's the difference between Justice and Vengeance? johnaries  Jan-01-07 12:11 PM   #0 
  - It's always vengeance. Every time.  Buzz Clik   Jan-01-07 12:15 PM   #1 
  - Well, in the case of parking tickets,  johnaries   Jan-01-07 12:22 PM   #7 
  - Really? So locking a murderer away in prison for life is vengeance alone?  originalpckelly   Jan-01-07 12:50 PM   #14 
  - Vengence is justice with an attitude. n/t  Generic Brad   Jan-01-07 12:17 PM   #2 
  - I believe it's a subjective delineation, something that can't be a universal  no_hypocrisy   Jan-01-07 12:18 PM   #3 
  - You hit the nail on the head here:  johnaries   Jan-01-07 12:31 PM   #8 
  - Just acts are what I do to others  mdmc   Jan-01-07 12:18 PM   #4 
  - It is often ego-centric, isn't it?  johnaries   Jan-01-07 12:39 PM   #11 
     - agreed  mdmc   Jan-01-07 12:41 PM   #12 
  - Justice - within the law? Vengeance - outside the law?  higher class   Jan-01-07 12:20 PM   #5 
  - But when is a law a "misguided" law?  johnaries   Jan-01-07 12:37 PM   #10 
     - It appears that guidance given Bush by Gonzales is misguided  higher class   Jan-01-07 01:46 PM   #20 
  - here's mine  dave_p   Jan-01-07 12:21 PM   #6 
  - What would you consider a "common sense of right"?  johnaries   Jan-01-07 12:34 PM   #9 
     - Please allow me to restate my prior post with an addition.  no_hypocrisy   Jan-01-07 12:53 PM   #16 
     - Note...  dave_p   Jan-01-07 01:49 PM   #21 
  - These basically summarize my view  mazzarro   Jan-01-07 12:47 PM   #13 
  - EXCELLENT! Thank you, mazzarro!  johnaries   Jan-01-07 01:05 PM   #18 
     - I'll take # 5 - rehabilitate and add that I believe the soul is involved  higher class   Jan-01-07 01:56 PM   #23 
        - Would that not be why  ayeshahaqqiqa   Jan-01-07 03:06 PM   #38 
           - Exactly! And, hopefully, it may also be found in the teachings or  higher class   Jan-01-07 08:49 PM   #40 
  - When "justice" comes via a want and not a need, it's vengeance.  flvegan   Jan-01-07 12:50 PM   #15 
  - In the eye of the beholder  BlooInBloo   Jan-01-07 12:54 PM   #17 
  - If you are taking joy from the misery of another  lwfern   Jan-01-07 01:12 PM   #19 
  - I STRONGLY recommend you search out the books of Rene Girard.  Shakespeare   Jan-01-07 01:53 PM   #22 
  - There is a site devoted to the Girard school of thought...  madmusic   Jan-01-07 02:22 PM   #25 
     - Thanks, I wasn't aware of that site.  Shakespeare   Jan-01-07 02:28 PM   #26 
        - Thanks to both of you! I will check out Girard. nt  johnaries   Jan-01-07 02:41 PM   #27 
        - Thanks to both of you! I will check out Girard. nt  johnaries   Jan-01-07 02:42 PM   #28 
        - There is a good summary a little later...  madmusic   Jan-01-07 02:44 PM   #29 
           - That's an excellent summary.  Shakespeare   Jan-01-07 02:49 PM   #31 
           - Yes, Tobin Siebers indtroduced me to him...  madmusic   Jan-01-07 03:19 PM   #39 
           - Hmmm, doesn't this help explain much of the conflict in the ME?  johnaries   Jan-01-07 02:52 PM   #32 
  - Justice is Divine, vengeance is human  mdmc   Jan-01-07 01:59 PM   #24 
  - I would rather view this from a soceital pov,  johnaries   Jan-01-07 02:46 PM   #30 
     - yup. "God is With Us" - rallying cry of the Nazis  mdmc   Jan-01-07 03:06 PM   #37 
  - Justice and Vengence  ayeshahaqqiqa   Jan-01-07 02:54 PM   #33 
  - .  Little Star   Jan-01-07 03:05 PM   #36 
  - When we have a god complex  LWolf   Jan-01-07 02:57 PM   #34 
  - Justice is supposed to protect society; Revenge usually appeases one individual  Truth Hurts A Lot   Jan-01-07 03:01 PM   #35 
 

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