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Reply #151: Let's face it, America has caught the mean and selfish virus [View All]

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Schema Thing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-19-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
151. Let's face it, America has caught the mean and selfish virus
Like there is a moral choice NOT to go after the climbers.


Rescuers do make moral choices. Shut down the search in X weather or at X amount of light. But to not expend available resources, over money? Blech.
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  -Since when do liberals think that rescue search and rescue costs of need to be collected? xultar  Dec-18-06 02:54 PM   #0 
  - The extrme left libertarian  nadinbrzezinski   Dec-18-06 02:57 PM   #1 
  - huh?  endarkenment   Dec-18-06 03:21 PM   #40 
     - which is, of course  northzax   Dec-18-06 07:11 PM   #97 
        - Indeed. This certainly has nothing to do with libertarianism.  endarkenment   Dec-19-06 06:42 AM   #106 
  - Well I think it's folly to pretend that liberals think a certain way  bryant69   Dec-18-06 02:57 PM   #2 
  - I'm with you... I can see both sides of this issue  nini   Dec-18-06 03:09 PM   #22 
  - The searchers are volunteers, I think.  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 03:33 PM   #54 
  - Yes  BoneDaddy   Dec-19-06 06:45 AM   #107 
     - I think you miss the issue of personal responsibility.  cryingshame   Dec-19-06 09:37 AM   #149 
        - What are you  BoneDaddy   Dec-19-06 09:42 AM   #150 
  - what the hell are you talking about?  NVMojo   Dec-18-06 02:57 PM   #3 
  - This is actually one of the safest times to climb  LostinVA   Dec-19-06 06:47 AM   #108 
  - yes, you can't  northzax   Dec-19-06 08:25 AM   #121 
  - Just don't hike in the dead of winter.  Connie_Corleone   Dec-18-06 02:58 PM   #4 
  - I don't think that was their problem. One of the guys got hurt and things  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:01 PM   #7 
  - Silly me. I thought it was possible to get stranded.....  Kingshakabobo   Dec-18-06 03:05 PM   #14 
  - Nope apparently you can only get lost in the woods during the winter.  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:10 PM   #26 
     - It was just a joke. Geez.  Connie_Corleone   Dec-18-06 03:21 PM   #37 
        - Sorry, I didn't get the joke. Some of the things people are saying make  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:25 PM   #45 
  - GPS are not magical devices  seemunkee   Dec-18-06 03:09 PM   #23 
  - It was a FUCKIN' JOKE!  Connie_Corleone   Dec-18-06 03:20 PM   #36 
  - They aren't "hikers", BTW. They are serious climbers,  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 03:35 PM   #57 
     - OP used the word hikers. Just responding to the OP.  Connie_Corleone   Dec-18-06 03:37 PM   #59 
  - I don't know why people have become so callous and uncaring  neverforget   Dec-18-06 02:59 PM   #5 
  - Thanks for the voice of reason...  phusion   Dec-18-06 03:04 PM   #12 
  - This is one more way the trolls come out of the woodwork.  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 03:38 PM   #60 
  - AMEN!!!  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:06 PM   #17 
  - Thank you -- excellent post  LostinVA   Dec-19-06 06:48 AM   #109 
  - Not me  BOSSHOG   Dec-18-06 02:59 PM   #6 
  - Sierra Madre S&R (the big one here in So Cal) is all  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 03:40 PM   #63 
     - God Bless Em!  BOSSHOG   Dec-18-06 03:45 PM   #69 
     - Volunteer organizations need money too.  Lasher   Dec-19-06 08:52 AM   #134 
  - taxes go for police and fire departments too...  itsmesgd   Dec-18-06 03:01 PM   #8 
  - Still, those are normal risks of life  treestar   Dec-18-06 03:16 PM   #33 
     - So should somebody who exceeds safe driving speeds in  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 03:43 PM   #67 
  - I'm not sure, but I'm also not sure that this was a case of respecting nature either  Truth Hurts A Lot   Dec-18-06 03:02 PM   #9 
  - Who held the gun to the hiker's heads?  BobRossi   Dec-18-06 03:03 PM   #10 
  - So you don't expect anyone to help you if you fall and break your leg  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:05 PM   #15 
  - That is correct!  BobRossi   Dec-18-06 03:07 PM   #18 
  - Most mountaineers and even hikers would scoff at the suggestion  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 03:45 PM   #70 
     - Even guides can get lost/hurt and require SAR  Squatch   Dec-19-06 08:37 AM   #129 
        - Part of the no-bid contract would no doubt include a clause  kestrel91316   Dec-19-06 11:55 AM   #158 
  - Excellent point.  cwydro   Dec-18-06 03:09 PM   #21 
  - You're not that inacessible there  treestar   Dec-18-06 03:20 PM   #35 
  - Yes you are. You could fall onto a ledge that reqires a helicopter for a lift out.  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:21 PM   #39 
  - That's easy ...  JustABozoOnThisBus   Dec-18-06 03:40 PM   #64 
     - So you burn down your house...they have to rescue you and air lift to hospital..  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:50 PM   #73 
        - Most people can live without extreme mountain climbing. Most people cannot  valerief   Dec-18-06 04:20 PM   #84 
        - But the argument is it's their fault.  Pithlet   Dec-18-06 06:37 PM   #94 
           - Yes, charge them. nt  valerief   Dec-19-06 08:27 AM   #122 
        - What house?  JustABozoOnThisBus   Dec-18-06 05:09 PM   #90 
  - No one.. who put a gun to the head of someone hit by a drunk driver?  nini   Dec-18-06 03:12 PM   #27 
  - Should you expect help? Yes, you should.  Pithlet   Dec-18-06 03:16 PM   #32 
  - Who stole your humanity?  Beelzebud   Dec-19-06 09:27 AM   #146 
  - Since the 'toughest mountain man' competition went online  Little Wing   Dec-18-06 03:03 PM   #11 
  - Middle class white guys  cwydro   Dec-18-06 03:04 PM   #13 
  - I wonder where plain ol' humanity is anymore  nini   Dec-18-06 03:13 PM   #30 
     - Funny in another thread some DUers advocating shooting dogs that  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:54 PM   #75 
  - No one has claimed not to care  TakesAVillage_People   Dec-18-06 03:05 PM   #16 
  - There are some people who can't separate the two  treestar   Dec-18-06 03:21 PM   #38 
  - I hear you  TakesAVillage_People   Dec-18-06 03:25 PM   #44 
  - Have you read some of the posts? People are calling them stupid  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:28 PM   #47 
  - They do pay for the SAR in advance--with taxes...  piedmont   Dec-18-06 03:39 PM   #61 
  - That is what I thought.  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:45 PM   #71 
  - Outdoor recreation is a big moneymaker in the US. If you  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 03:48 PM   #72 
     - So true!!!  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:50 PM   #74 
     - Some sort of weird disconnect  sandnsea   Dec-19-06 11:31 AM   #155 
  - Perspective......  jus_the_facts   Dec-18-06 03:08 PM   #19 
  - EXACTLY!!!  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:39 PM   #62 
  - "liberals"? Where?  TahitiNut   Dec-18-06 03:08 PM   #20 
  - I would rather finance 100 of these rescues.....  bobbiejo   Dec-18-06 03:09 PM   #24 
  - BRILLIANT!  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:33 PM   #53 
  - okay. you're crazy.  sui generis   Dec-18-06 03:10 PM   #25 
  - What about the fire department rescuing you from your burning kitchen?  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:19 PM   #34 
  - Some would argue taking on Mt. Hood in December is not a walk in the park.  lectrobyte   Dec-18-06 03:22 PM   #41 
  - Depends on the park.  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:23 PM   #43 
  - Taking on Mt. Hood in Dec is safer than doing same in,  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 04:05 PM   #77 
  - Thanks, I did not know that. It still seems risky, though,  lectrobyte   Dec-18-06 05:05 PM   #88 
  - Of course it's risky, but there are no risk-free endeavors worth  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 08:28 PM   #99 
  - 133 people killed in 100 years on Mt Hood. Over 40,000 permits to climb issued per year.  piedmont   Dec-18-06 09:05 PM   #100 
  - this particular route (through the Gullies) probably yes  northzax   Dec-19-06 08:28 AM   #123 
  - technically, you are correct  northzax   Dec-19-06 08:29 AM   #125 
  - everything must pass my approval  sui generis   Dec-18-06 04:22 PM   #85 
  - N.O. is a good analogy. Remember "If you're stupid enough to live in New Orleans...?"  KrazyKat   Dec-18-06 07:04 PM   #96 
  - I think there are restriction or some sort of insurance for rescue  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 04:03 PM   #76 
  - Good thing I drive a big 4 wheel drive gas guzzling SUV.....  Kingshakabobo   Dec-18-06 03:12 PM   #28 
  - Usually in need refers to the poor.  treestar   Dec-18-06 03:12 PM   #29 
  - Why should we have to pay  Pithlet   Dec-18-06 03:22 PM   #42 
  - No, 'in need' means anyone rich or poor who needs something like...  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:32 PM   #52 
  - If they are wealthy, they are already paying through their taxes.  mondo joe   Dec-19-06 11:21 AM   #154 
  - We're talking about human beings here...  DixieBlue   Dec-19-06 11:54 AM   #157 
  - I could never be so damn liberal that  TakesAVillage_People   Dec-18-06 03:14 PM   #31 
  - Well, lucky for the rest of us  Pithlet   Dec-18-06 03:27 PM   #46 
  - Well,  TakesAVillage_People   Dec-18-06 03:28 PM   #49 
  - yes, we are responsible for our actions - definitely  nini   Dec-18-06 03:30 PM   #51 
     - With all due respect,  TakesAVillage_People   Dec-18-06 03:34 PM   #55 
        - huh? the subject line in the OP says 'search and rescue'  nini   Dec-18-06 03:43 PM   #68 
  - climbing Mt Hood in winter is foolish  leftofthedial   Dec-18-06 03:28 PM   #48 
  - So you're saying you can't break you leg climbing Mt. Hood in the summer and get stuck.  xultar   Dec-18-06 03:29 PM   #50 
  - I did not say that.  leftofthedial   Dec-18-06 03:35 PM   #58 
     - And you know this how? nt  piedmont   Dec-18-06 03:41 PM   #65 
  - I went snow climbing in the Sierras in January. i have also done the same  kestrel91316   Dec-18-06 04:08 PM   #79 
  - I think on DU  Pithlet   Dec-18-06 03:35 PM   #56 
  - delete...  Virginia Dare   Dec-18-06 03:42 PM   #66 
  - It's completely ridiculous: It's an uber-capitalist, uber-privatization position  alcibiades_mystery   Dec-18-06 04:07 PM   #78 
  - May I take the liberty of a re-post on this?  TygrBright   Dec-18-06 04:09 PM   #80 
  - I likes! Great discussion points.  xultar   Dec-18-06 04:29 PM   #86 
  - I read it, and agree  ninkasi   Dec-19-06 11:18 AM   #153 
  - If that's the kind of stuff you're into, you'd love the Guns forum...  piedmont   Dec-18-06 09:16 PM   #102 
  - I know some of the responses I've read make me sick.  dionysus   Dec-18-06 04:15 PM   #81 
  - This was not an accident. This was an avoidable risk. They didn't  valerief   Dec-18-06 04:15 PM   #82 
  - Kind of like women who have sex but then want an abortion. Avoidable  mondo joe   Dec-18-06 09:07 PM   #101 
  - I don't see the risk of death involved with your flame. nt  valerief   Dec-19-06 08:19 AM   #117 
     - Is death the only risk? What about risk of pregnancy?  mondo joe   Dec-19-06 08:21 AM   #118 
        - Death of the rescue team is the risk we're talking about in this thread. nt  valerief   Dec-19-06 08:28 AM   #124 
           - Really? You mean the volunteers who love to do rescues?  mondo joe   Dec-19-06 08:49 AM   #133 
              - No, the ones who don't love to do it. nt  valerief   Dec-19-06 08:53 AM   #136 
                 - Which ones are those?  mondo joe   Dec-19-06 08:54 AM   #138 
  - What probabilty of death is acceptable to you?  piedmont   Dec-18-06 09:21 PM   #103 
     - I know that if I get stuck on a remote mountain in a storm and hurt myself I'll probably die there.  valerief   Dec-19-06 08:22 AM   #119 
        - Mt Hood? remote?  northzax   Dec-19-06 08:32 AM   #126 
           - I think the top is remote otherwise they'd be home by now. Duh.  valerief   Dec-19-06 08:32 AM   #127 
              - I think they fell off a cliff  northzax   Dec-19-06 08:33 AM   #128 
                 - Your point escapes me. nt  valerief   Dec-19-06 08:52 AM   #135 
                    - it's not that it is remote  northzax   Dec-19-06 09:06 AM   #142 
  - I agree with your point, but I also should point out that many of the outdoors people I know  WI_DEM   Dec-18-06 04:17 PM   #83 
  - I love wilderness and hiking and shit like that.  cobalt1999   Dec-18-06 04:43 PM   #87 
  - Meh.  Bornaginhooligan   Dec-18-06 05:05 PM   #89 
  - I'm With You  REP   Dec-18-06 05:22 PM   #91 
  - They Don't. Don't Judge A Philosophy By The Exceptions Of Crazies, For They Are Low In Number. n/t  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Dec-18-06 05:28 PM   #92 
  - It is always the crazies that are the loudest.  xultar   Dec-18-06 06:20 PM   #93 
  - Using the "no rescue because they were stupid," rule, the following people are out of luck:  KrazyKat   Dec-18-06 07:00 PM   #95 
  - That last one is the key!  xultar   Dec-19-06 07:52 AM   #113 
  - kind of on a tangent... could we make some variant of ELTs available to all hikers?  0rganism   Dec-18-06 07:41 PM   #98 
  - I haven't read the entire thread yet BUT,  FlaGranny   Dec-18-06 09:29 PM   #104 
  - Put on your galoshes Granny, and wade into the thread....  piedmont   Dec-18-06 09:56 PM   #105 
  - GRanny- a brief explanation  northzax   Dec-19-06 08:45 AM   #131 
     - I know the rescuers can say it's too dangerous and not  FlaGranny   Dec-19-06 12:56 PM   #159 
  - Whodda thunk...  Everybody   Dec-19-06 07:07 AM   #110 
  - It's not personal responsibility. It is about a society helping the people.  xultar   Dec-19-06 07:51 AM   #112 
  - I'm a flaming liberal, but I'd still buy medevac insurance to pay the bills if something happened...  gulfcoastliberal   Dec-19-06 07:10 AM   #111 
  - Medevac insurance is different than search and rescue.  xultar   Dec-19-06 08:19 AM   #116 
  - I don't have a dog in this fight. But I'm not a big fan of "you're-not-a-real-liberal" threads.  Skinner   Dec-19-06 07:54 AM   #114 
  - I'm just asking. That's all. Putting up a mirror. I never thought that search and rescue  xultar   Dec-19-06 08:16 AM   #115 
     - Why are you picking on New Orleans?  Lurking_Argyle   Dec-19-06 08:54 AM   #139 
     - EXACTLY! Them too.  xultar   Dec-19-06 09:06 AM   #141 
     - Who says I don't like your posts?  Skinner   Dec-19-06 09:31 AM   #148 
  - Perhaps The Same As Those That Think. . .  ProfessorGAC   Dec-19-06 08:24 AM   #120 
  - Are you kidding. I've never been camping in my life. I've never been to camp.  xultar   Dec-19-06 08:43 AM   #130 
     - I Think We're Agreeing  ProfessorGAC   Dec-19-06 08:53 AM   #137 
        - Oh I agree with you. It was a silly litmus test. I knew that when I posted it.  xultar   Dec-19-06 09:21 AM   #144 
           - Consider It Accounted!  ProfessorGAC   Dec-19-06 09:25 AM   #145 
  - I'm a flaming liberal, too. But the costs of risk-taking ought to be borne by the risk-takers.  WinkyDink   Dec-19-06 08:48 AM   #132 
  - How about insurance?  JNelson6563   Dec-19-06 08:55 AM   #140 
  - Search and rescue first, then figure out the payments if necessary  Norquist Nemesis   Dec-19-06 09:19 AM   #143 
  - Save those taxpayers dollars and spend them on something useful-Iraq.  Swede   Dec-19-06 09:29 AM   #147 
  - Let's face it, America has caught the mean and selfish virus  AchtungToddler   Dec-19-06 09:51 AM   #151 
  - And it appears to be chronic. n/t  bling bling   Dec-19-06 11:39 AM   #156 
  - What about being Responsible Humans for their actions?  TriMetFan   Dec-19-06 10:45 AM   #152 
  - They don't.  lildreamer316   Dec-20-06 02:44 AM   #160 
  - well basically I have a problem being told I'm heartless  sui generis   Dec-20-06 09:12 AM   #161 
     - I'd suggest the actual Oregon law is a nice balance on responsibility.  mondo joe   Dec-20-06 09:16 AM   #162 
 

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