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Reply #155: I didn't say don't rescue them... [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-19-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #128
155. I didn't say don't rescue them...
everyone should be rescued, so long as the rescue doesn't unnecessarily risk others' lives. My assessment went only to who should bear the cost of the rescue. I don't know enough about this particular situation to know whether I would put this particular group of mountain climbers in the normal risk that goes with the activity (they should cover it - or have purchased insurance to cover it) - or the emergency category (it should be a societal cost).

What I do know is that all of the things you cited as examples are all true emergencies - not normal challenges/risks associated with engaging in recreational behavior which is specifically classified as risky (if you aren't sure what these are, check out the exclusion list on any life insurance policy). People shouldn't live in fear of being abandoned in a crisis, but society should also not be required to bear all of the inevitable costs associated with risky voluntary activities.

As a diver, in addition to the cost of equipment, I also need to be able to pay the cost of a hyberbaric chamber, emergency transport out of remote locations, etc. Those are normal (and costly) risks associated with recreational diving. Insurance is readily available and relatively inexpensive. I have weighed the various possibilities and purchased insurance to cover some costs and have not with respect to other costs (which I fully expect to bear, if those risks should come to pass). It is not fair for me to expect someone else to pay the freight for routine risks associated my recreational activity - any more than it would be fair for me to expect society to pay for the equipment I need to engage in the activity in the first place - because the risks are part and parcel of the activity, quite a different situation from walking the dog or hunting for a Christmas tree.
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  -Ed Shultz "Climbers Should Be Responsible..." rsmith6621  Dec-18-06 02:22 PM   #0 
  - I would think so.  warrior1   Dec-18-06 02:24 PM   #1 
  - Firefighter Paramedics do not charge  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 02:28 PM   #7 
     - Sure they do  Mz Pip   Dec-18-06 02:36 PM   #17 
     - Paramedics, not ambulances  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 02:39 PM   #20 
     - Many Towns Charge If They Transport You To A Medical Facility  we can do it   Dec-18-06 02:43 PM   #24 
     - As will medical transport for the climbers  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 02:47 PM   #31 
        - wrong in some cases, in Elko County Nevada, the amb ulance is county-owned  NVMojo   Dec-18-06 03:15 PM   #54 
        - par-a-med-ics  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 07:14 PM   #105 
        - Well - You Are Not Exactly Correct  we can do it   Dec-20-06 01:59 PM   #159 
     - In Chicago they do  AngryAmish   Dec-18-06 02:47 PM   #30 
     - Paramedics from the fire dept?  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 02:48 PM   #32 
     - Around here they charge.  Ms. Toad   Dec-18-06 07:54 PM   #110 
     - you betcha  mopinko   Dec-18-06 11:12 PM   #125 
        - ride=ambulance  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 11:36 PM   #127 
           - no, ride=  mopinko   Dec-19-06 09:19 AM   #148 
              - The ambulance team  sandnsea   Dec-19-06 10:50 AM   #150 
                 - Most Departments Have A Dual Role - I Have Done Rescue, Then Transport  we can do it   Dec-20-06 02:02 PM   #161 
     - Colorado too...  walldude   Dec-18-06 03:05 PM   #45 
        - yes, that was the bill for transport  northzax   Dec-18-06 06:19 PM   #95 
        - For the ambulance  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 07:16 PM   #107 
     - Invalid comparison  Drifter   Dec-19-06 08:34 AM   #144 
        - If you drive in the mountains  sandnsea   Dec-19-06 10:54 AM   #151 
  - You Pays Yous Nickels and You Takes Yous Chances  mckara   Dec-18-06 02:25 PM   #2 
  - Yes, climbers should be responsible for the cost because...  Missy M   Dec-18-06 02:26 PM   #3 
  - It's the Christmas season people  tularetom   Dec-18-06 02:27 PM   #4 
  - Poor excuse for picking a man's pocket once a year. -- E Scrooge n/t  rolleitreks   Dec-18-06 06:59 PM   #104 
  - Let me waffle on this one  BOSSHOG   Dec-18-06 02:27 PM   #5 
  - thank you Boss Hogg for some well-needed  CatWoman   Dec-18-06 02:31 PM   #13 
     - Thank You my Dear  BOSSHOG   Dec-18-06 02:43 PM   #23 
        - you are forgetting that one event like this can wipe out a county or a state  NVMojo   Dec-18-06 03:17 PM   #56 
           - Okay  BOSSHOG   Dec-18-06 03:22 PM   #57 
              - Should cost be considered when lives are at stake?  bobbolink   Dec-19-06 01:20 AM   #130 
  - And if the climbers were inner city kids without the means to pay ?  Trajan   Dec-18-06 02:28 PM   #6 
  - If someone is paying for inner city kids to climb mountains in winter  Generator   Dec-18-06 02:43 PM   #22 
  - Just because rich people climb doesn't mean its a rich persons sport  seemunkee   Dec-18-06 03:03 PM   #44 
  - Its like golf....  whoneedstickets   Dec-18-06 11:16 PM   #126 
  - Assume much? nt  piedmont   Dec-18-06 03:37 PM   #62 
  - Um, they do have inner city kids climb mountains.  Bornaginhooligan   Dec-18-06 06:14 PM   #92 
  - Absolutely Right. Inner-city kids should not be allowed to climb mountains.  Leopolds Ghost   Dec-18-06 09:52 PM   #119 
  - I'm not a climber but I was on Mt Etna during a severe snowstorm  CTyankee   Dec-19-06 07:35 AM   #140 
  - Oh, yeah, like inner city kids would be stupid enough to climb  valerief   Dec-18-06 02:44 PM   #26 
     - Compassion is a hallmark of liberal civilization ....  Trajan   Dec-18-06 06:27 PM   #98 
  - No...  piedmont   Dec-18-06 02:29 PM   #8 
  - That's a great idea, Piedmont...  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 02:35 PM   #15 
     - Really, just a user fee for the location and activity...  piedmont   Dec-18-06 02:56 PM   #39 
        - I would imagine they did pay a user fee  petronius   Dec-18-06 04:30 PM   #85 
           - They do, from the websites I've seen...  piedmont   Dec-18-06 07:20 PM   #109 
  - And parents of lost children  leftyclimber   Dec-18-06 02:29 PM   #9 
  - No, and it's stupid to even think about this while they  QuestionAll...   Dec-18-06 02:29 PM   #10 
  - My wife and I were talking about this the other day...  Mythsaje   Dec-18-06 02:30 PM   #11 
  - I see a difference there  treestar   Dec-18-06 03:37 PM   #63 
     - I think it depends on how you quantify "huge" risks...  Mythsaje   Dec-18-06 04:39 PM   #88 
     - what if they were speeding?  northzax   Dec-18-06 06:23 PM   #96 
  - Insurance before climbing. Should be part of the park  mitchtv   Dec-18-06 02:31 PM   #12 
  - Unfortunately, with so many of our country's resources....  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 02:32 PM   #14 
  - I guess that's the thing.  leftyclimber   Dec-18-06 02:37 PM   #18 
  - If your hand gets stuck in a table saw  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 02:53 PM   #37 
  - Let's see...  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 03:33 PM   #61 
  - Why don't we worry about cutting funds for the war then  Hippo_Tron   Dec-18-06 02:53 PM   #38 
     - I'm all in favor of cutting funds for the war....  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 03:40 PM   #66 
  - They did this climb by choice  Nite Owl   Dec-18-06 02:35 PM   #16 
  - Isn't Search and Rescue the job of these people?  Beaverhausen   Dec-18-06 02:39 PM   #19 
  - the dirty little secret  northzax   Dec-18-06 06:27 PM   #97 
     - If that's true, then start a thread with evidence of that....  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 09:20 PM   #115 
        - well, partially funded  northzax   Dec-19-06 09:06 AM   #146 
  - Fat people should pay their own health care  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 02:43 PM   #21 
  - Most of those fat people probably do pay their own...  Missy M   Dec-18-06 02:44 PM   #25 
  - You support that then?  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 02:45 PM   #27 
     - I do support a universal health plan where we all contribute...  Missy M   Dec-18-06 03:00 PM   #41 
        - It's all the same thing  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 06:52 PM   #102 
           - There is a difference between normal risk of an emergency  Ms. Toad   Dec-18-06 08:18 PM   #111 
              - Well said, Ms. Toad. n/t  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 09:53 PM   #120 
              - No, because accidents happen to anybody  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 11:57 PM   #128 
                 - I didn't say don't rescue them...  Ms. Toad   Dec-19-06 01:45 PM   #155 
                    - I checked the insurance  sandnsea   Dec-19-06 02:31 PM   #156 
                       - I think you misunderstood.  Ms. Toad   Dec-20-06 09:56 PM   #162 
                          - That's not SAR  sandnsea   Dec-21-06 11:02 AM   #163 
  - Stupid people should pay for their own education  nolabels   Dec-18-06 04:05 PM   #78 
  - It depends  Lizardking1   Dec-18-06 02:46 PM   #28 
  - Wait a minute.  leftyclimber   Dec-18-06 02:48 PM   #33 
  - 10,000 summit attempts per year on Mt. Hood. Do you know how much money that brings to the economy?  piedmont   Dec-18-06 03:06 PM   #46 
  - I wonder what 10,000 annual attempts does to Mt Hood itself  BushOut06   Dec-18-06 03:23 PM   #58 
  - such as?  piedmont   Dec-18-06 03:30 PM   #60 
  - Not trying to dictate, just deciding where the risk should go  treestar   Dec-18-06 03:40 PM   #65 
     - Society doesn't get to decide ALL of life's decisions, thankfully.  piedmont   Dec-18-06 03:52 PM   #69 
  - Yeah, let's get the lawyers involved.  Marie26   Dec-18-06 03:59 PM   #77 
  - No.  Pithlet   Dec-18-06 02:46 PM   #29 
  - Exactly!  BattyDem   Dec-18-06 03:03 PM   #43 
  - Perfect answer. Thank you.  Left Is Write   Dec-18-06 04:17 PM   #83 
  - As a society, we all have to accept the responsibility to help people in an  Jim__   Dec-18-06 02:48 PM   #34 
  - We live in an area where ice fishing and hiking in the woods  jwirr   Dec-18-06 02:51 PM   #35 
  - That sounds like a funding problem - I mean we need to share the  Jim__   Dec-18-06 02:58 PM   #40 
  - I agree.  Pithlet   Dec-18-06 03:11 PM   #50 
  - I agree that there should be shared costs maybe between  jwirr   Dec-18-06 03:17 PM   #55 
  - Well, that's it....  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 03:12 PM   #51 
     - in fact  northzax   Dec-18-06 06:32 PM   #99 
        - Actually, I go out of my way to minimize the risks....  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 09:14 PM   #113 
  - Seems to me that things like SAR, saving lives, etc  LanternWaste   Dec-18-06 02:52 PM   #36 
  - I think funding education, health care for the uninsured,  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 03:52 PM   #71 
     - I didn't write, 'underwriting'  LanternWaste   Dec-18-06 06:11 PM   #91 
  - No!  BattyDem   Dec-18-06 03:01 PM   #42 
  - A $5 MLU rental  Lurking Dem   Dec-18-06 03:07 PM   #47 
  - Yep.  loindelrio   Dec-18-06 03:41 PM   #67 
  - That is like saying  michaz   Dec-18-06 03:08 PM   #48 
  - I live in Michigan and we always have people doing stupid things  shaniqua6392   Dec-18-06 03:08 PM   #49 
  - yes, but up to a point and there should be a means to judge responsibility  NVMojo   Dec-18-06 03:13 PM   #52 
  - Exactly, there is too much of an either/or attitude in these arguments  treestar   Dec-18-06 03:44 PM   #68 
  - That's absurd  ripple   Dec-18-06 03:13 PM   #53 
  - Yes, I'm for personal responsibility.  MrSlayer   Dec-18-06 03:27 PM   #59 
  - Do firemen charge to put out fires?  dmordue   Dec-18-06 03:40 PM   #64 
  - Depends on where you live.  Lurking Dem   Dec-18-06 03:55 PM   #72 
  - Yes, like insurance ...  Drifter   Dec-18-06 03:52 PM   #70 
  - What is wrong with people?  Marie26   Dec-18-06 03:57 PM   #73 
  - I completely agree.  spoony   Dec-18-06 04:09 PM   #80 
  - I couldn't agree with you more!!!!!  devilgrrl   Dec-18-06 04:33 PM   #87 
  - IMHO...  Bornaginhooligan   Dec-18-06 06:16 PM   #94 
  - i think its cos the economy is downhill..and most people are insecure about their jobs  lionesspriyanka   Dec-18-06 06:35 PM   #101 
  - Thank you. This place is slowly going insane.  cboy4   Dec-19-06 01:15 AM   #129 
  - I wonder what the rescuers think?  nini   Dec-18-06 03:57 PM   #74 
  - I have a feeling that cost is the furthest thing from their minds right now n/t  ripple   Dec-18-06 03:59 PM   #76 
  - in this case  northzax   Dec-18-06 06:34 PM   #100 
  - They willingly put their lives on the line  sandnsea   Dec-18-06 07:19 PM   #108 
  - That's what we all pay taxes for  warrens   Dec-18-06 03:58 PM   #75 
  - That's what taxes are for  derby378   Dec-18-06 04:07 PM   #79 
  - No, I don't agree. I rather my tax dollars save lost hikers than start illegal wars in the ME  devilgrrl   Dec-18-06 04:09 PM   #81 
  - So if there all dead does Ed want their families to pay?  WI_DEM   Dec-18-06 04:12 PM   #82 
  - Paramedics and pilots also risk their lives to save them.  zanne   Dec-18-06 04:24 PM   #84 
  - if you're dead do you have to pay?  maxsolomon   Dec-18-06 04:33 PM   #86 
  - No  Raine   Dec-18-06 04:44 PM   #89 
  - There are rescues and there are rescues.  Old and In the Way   Dec-18-06 04:57 PM   #90 
  - The climbers pay their taxes...  Bornaginhooligan   Dec-18-06 06:16 PM   #93 
  - Yes.What if everyone behaved the same way as these mountaineers?  Truth Hurts A Lot   Dec-18-06 06:53 PM   #103 
  - Whaaaa?  Redneck Socialist   Dec-18-06 08:24 PM   #112 
  - Exactly.  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 09:51 PM   #118 
     - Better not go hiking in the woods for fun..  piedmont   Dec-18-06 11:02 PM   #124 
        - Does it cost two million dollars to rescue a swimmer...  Zookeeper   Dec-19-06 01:56 AM   #132 
        - 130 people killed on Mt Hood in100 yrs. 40,000 permits issued per year.  piedmont   Dec-19-06 02:07 AM   #133 
           - OK, if the revenue generated by permits...  Zookeeper   Dec-19-06 02:35 AM   #134 
              - The Kims were going to a resort...  piedmont   Dec-19-06 02:46 AM   #135 
        - Uh, you're kidding, right?  MattSh   Dec-19-06 06:18 AM   #136 
           - see post 133  piedmont   Dec-19-06 02:54 PM   #158 
  - Should Republicans be held responsible for putting BushCo in power for 8 years?  KrazyKat   Dec-18-06 07:14 PM   #106 
  - Great idea, KrazyKat....  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 09:58 PM   #121 
  - I'll Be Short And Sweet: I Find The Sentiment To Be An Absolutely Deplorable One.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Dec-18-06 09:15 PM   #114 
  - me too...  L A Woman   Dec-18-06 09:24 PM   #117 
  - i keep forgetting that our taxes are for lining the pockets of lobbyists, etc.  L A Woman   Dec-18-06 09:23 PM   #116 
  - You don't see the difference between someone...  Zookeeper   Dec-18-06 10:04 PM   #122 
     - no, i don't...  L A Woman   Dec-21-06 11:13 AM   #164 
  - Yes.  Mme. Defarge   Dec-18-06 10:54 PM   #123 
  - "Big Ed" also castigated poor NOLA residents for not leaving.  bobbolink   Dec-19-06 01:46 AM   #131 
  - If climbers should be responsible  BoneDaddy   Dec-19-06 06:46 AM   #137 
  - Of course they must pay. Emergency evacuation insurance is pretty cheap.  gulfcoastliberal   Dec-19-06 06:51 AM   #138 
  - Doesn't usually pay S&R  sandnsea   Dec-19-06 11:42 AM   #153 
  - Anyone who voted yes  donheld   Dec-19-06 07:23 AM   #139 
  - I voted NO  Bridget Burke   Dec-19-06 07:49 AM   #141 
  - It's a hobby for cripes sake!!!!  Little Star   Dec-19-06 08:01 AM   #142 
  - It's kind of a moot point.  Sentinel Chicken   Dec-19-06 08:18 AM   #143 
  - Loaded statement or poll  Maestro   Dec-19-06 08:39 AM   #145 
  - I think our society does pay for a lot of things for people  Annces   Dec-19-06 09:11 AM   #147 
  - How do we know they won't be?  Norquist Nemesis   Dec-19-06 09:24 AM   #149 
  - NO  LSK   Dec-19-06 11:19 AM   #152 
  - Um, that's the whole *POINT* of government and taxes.  mainegreen   Dec-19-06 12:13 PM   #154 
  - here is what Oregon law stipulates  judaspriestess   Dec-19-06 02:40 PM   #157 
  - People who cause wrecks during rush hour should pay for all  Egalitariat   Dec-20-06 02:01 PM   #160 
 

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