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Reply #67: The poster would not say what pampering he thought these killers needed [View All]

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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #62
67. The poster would not say what pampering he thought these killers needed
they are admitted killers and are in a Supermax prison.

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  -Supermax Prisons Are Torture. Period. cali  Dec-12-06 07:16 AM   #0 
  - Prison is supposed to be an unpleasant place where criminals are punished  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-12-06 07:25 AM   #1 
  - there is a large difference between imprisonment and solitary confinement  ixion   Dec-12-06 07:29 AM   #3 
  - That may be your definition, but I don't think that most Americans would agree with you  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-12-06 07:45 AM   #8 
  - Would it be the same majority that believes in WMD? Or that gay couples should not  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 08:01 AM   #17 
  - That what happens when you live in a society where the  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-12-06 08:17 AM   #35 
     - Indeed. But it has nothing to do with your fallacious implication.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 08:48 AM   #40 
     - so then there is no reason to impeach Bush or end the Iraq war?  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 11:39 AM   #99 
        - Did the voters elect representatives who promised to do so?  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-12-06 12:53 PM   #140 
           - no, they did not.  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 01:05 PM   #141 
  - 'most americans' still think there are WMD's in Iraq...  zreosumgame   Dec-12-06 05:07 PM   #166 
     - He has none. Argumentum ad populum is fallacious and not  WakingLife   Dec-13-06 06:46 AM   #200 
     - My point is that the American people are not very sympathetic to convicted murderers and  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-13-06 10:26 AM   #204 
  - Quakers learned that the hard way with Eastgate State Penitentiary  derby378   Dec-12-06 10:06 AM   #64 
     - Eastern State  Patiod   Dec-12-06 10:23 AM   #72 
        - Oops! You're right...  derby378   Dec-12-06 10:47 AM   #83 
           - My SO occassionally had former inmates on tours  Patiod   Dec-12-06 11:14 AM   #92 
  - I suggest you read some of the links n/t  cali   Dec-12-06 07:31 AM   #4 
  - I did  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-12-06 07:46 AM   #9 
  - Rehabilitation, not punishment, is what a civilized society strives for  NNN0LHI   Dec-12-06 07:39 AM   #5 
  - If I could K&R a post, your's would be it (nt)  The Straight Story   Dec-12-06 07:43 AM   #6 
  - Should Mr. Rudolph be rehabilitated?  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-12-06 07:44 AM   #7 
  - What does 'rehabilitated' mean really?  The Straight Story   Dec-12-06 08:00 AM   #16 
  - So, if someone with a life sentence pretends to be rehabilitated  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-12-06 08:05 AM   #23 
  - you are really into false choices and logical fallacies aren't you?  zreosumgame   Dec-12-06 05:10 PM   #167 
  - Thanks SS. It brings up the question that really is at the root of all of this:  YOY   Dec-13-06 11:16 AM   #207 
  - I'd imagine he'd be a lot easier for the guards to handle if rehabilitated  Hippo_Tron   Dec-12-06 12:21 PM   # 
  - Ideally, rehab is the goal.  dbaker41   Dec-12-06 10:36 AM   #77 
  - No, the point of punishment is to deter  geek tragedy   Dec-12-06 10:53 AM   #88 
  - You Think a COMMITED Rightwinger Like Rudo Can Be Rehabilitated?  Anakin Skywalker   Dec-12-06 06:38 PM   #179 
  - I think anyone can be rehabilitated under the right circumstances  NNN0LHI   Dec-12-06 06:51 PM   #183 
  - I agree  ninkasi   Dec-13-06 12:37 AM   #196 
  - Rehabilitation is a noble goal  fujiyama   Dec-13-06 01:58 AM   #199 
  - I Don't Agree  mntleo2   Dec-12-06 08:15 AM   #34 
  - No, it isn't. It is supposed to be confinement paired with rehabilitation.  WinkyDink   Dec-12-06 03:58 PM   #158 
  - I agree  MATTMAN   Dec-12-06 06:13 PM   #175 
  - But a line has to be drawn somewhere.  SmokingJacket   Dec-13-06 10:36 AM   #205 
  - I agree. Celebrating the suffering of anyone, no matter how malicious  ixion   Dec-12-06 07:27 AM   #2 
  - Sorry Supermax is the right place for ppl like Rudolph and the Unibomber  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 07:46 AM   #10 
  - You can protect society  cali   Dec-12-06 07:48 AM   #11 
     - Sorry they do not have a nice Tea Time  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 07:53 AM   #13 
     - Read the HRW report!  cali   Dec-12-06 07:58 AM   #14 
     - Answer the question  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 08:01 AM   #18 
        - I can answer it. What do I want for them? Humane, highly secure imprisonment.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 08:03 AM   #21 
        - That is what I want also.  uppityperson   Dec-12-06 11:29 AM   #96 
        - You. Are. Just. Plain. Wrong.  cali   Dec-12-06 08:06 AM   #24 
           - How were they tortured..  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 08:08 AM   #26 
           - Read the fucking reports.  cali   Dec-12-06 08:12 AM   #31 
              - We are not talking about Padilla but the Unibomber  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 08:14 AM   #33 
              - He was treated in much the same manner  cali   Dec-12-06 08:24 AM   #37 
              - Padilla was detained without cause, so you might get some  treestar   Dec-12-06 09:36 AM   #58 
           - HRW says it's torture for the mentally ill  muriel_volestrangler   Dec-12-06 09:23 AM   #50 
              - That's only one of the statements HRW  cali   Dec-12-06 11:12 AM   #91 
                 - I read it, and gave the cirumstances for which they claim it's "torture"  muriel_volestrangler   Dec-12-06 11:19 AM   #94 
                    - Oh for the love of Pete. Here:  cali   Dec-12-06 11:41 AM   #102 
                       - And I'll give you the closing paragraph:  muriel_volestrangler   Dec-12-06 11:57 AM   #108 
                          - I don't know why I'm allowing myself to be drawn into this with you  cali   Dec-12-06 12:14 PM   #118 
     - Wow, three free meals, a free orange jumpsuit, and a free bed  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-12-06 12:23 PM   #125 
     - supermax or level 5 in  LeftofU   Dec-12-06 10:49 AM   #86 
  - Agree completely cali  wicket   Dec-12-06 07:49 AM   #12 
  - Agree with cali. Disagree with wakeme2008.  StrictlyRockers   Dec-12-06 07:59 AM   #15 
     - These people are Terrorist that have killed people  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 08:02 AM   #20 
        - Straw man.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 08:04 AM   #22 
        - What is NOT humane with Supermax  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 08:09 AM   #28 
        - Isolation, lack of stimulation.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 08:47 AM   #39 
           - Fine. We Should Supply Video Games for Them!  Anakin Skywalker   Dec-12-06 06:41 PM   #180 
              - I'd think an evidence-based prison program would be better.  mondo joe   Dec-13-06 08:53 AM   #203 
        - totally!!!  LSK   Dec-12-06 03:31 PM   #156 
        - If your brother went insane and blew people up, how would you want him treated?  StrictlyRockers   Dec-12-06 08:06 AM   #25 
        - What crap.  cali   Dec-12-06 08:09 AM   #27 
           - WHAT THE FUCK MORE DO THESE ASSHOLE need  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 08:11 AM   #29 
              - Straw man. One can be tortured but have a clean cell and food. You're using the  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 08:49 AM   #41 
                 - You have no clue what the meaning of straw man is do you  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 09:47 AM   #59 
                    - LOL!  cali   Dec-12-06 09:57 AM   #61 
                    - No, I think he got it pretty right....  MonkeyFunk   Dec-12-06 10:00 AM   #62 
                    - No one on this thread  cali   Dec-12-06 10:09 AM   #65 
                    - I'm on your side  MonkeyFunk   Dec-12-06 10:12 AM   #66 
                    - Oops , sorry  cali   Dec-12-06 10:33 AM   #75 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-12-06 10:19 AM   #69 
                       - No  MonkeyFunk   Dec-12-06 10:22 AM   #70 
                       - There you go with the straw man again. No one has suggested they  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 10:48 AM   #85 
                          - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-12-06 11:15 AM   #93 
                             - I told you what more I want: humane treatment, which would mean  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 11:21 AM   #95 
                             - And what of the type of prisoners  bloom   Dec-12-06 11:40 AM   #100 
                             - In very limited, highly regulated ways. But the isolation is not the  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 12:12 PM   #117 
                             - Read #36 and tell me about prisoners being killed by other prisoners  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 12:00 PM   #110 
                                - I don't need to read it to know my answer: no, it's not. NT  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 12:10 PM   #116 
                                   - So what is wrong with Supermax  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 12:21 PM   #123 
                                      - Please stop lying by saying things like "Nothing but freeing the pedophile  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 12:25 PM   #127 
                                         - You just want to free the assholes. nothing else will make you happy  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 12:50 PM   #138 
                                            - I don't see why you'd choose to say that, since it is not my position.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 12:52 PM   #139 
                                            - Didn't you claim you were not using strawmen...  MN Against Bush   Dec-12-06 06:41 PM   #181 
                             - If it's so wonderful, I suggest you try living under those conditions  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-12-06 12:27 PM   #131 
                    - The poster would not say what pampering he thought these killers needed  wakeme2008   Dec-12-06 10:18 AM   #67 
                       - And that right there  MonkeyFunk   Dec-12-06 10:25 AM   #74 
                       - Deleted message  Name removed   Dec-12-06 10:41 AM   #79 
                          - I win  MonkeyFunk   Dec-12-06 10:43 AM   #80 
                          - You haven't even read the Human Rights Report, have you?  Selatius   Dec-12-06 10:48 AM   #84 
                       - This is ridiculous.  cali   Dec-12-06 10:38 AM   #78 
                       - Here's what goes on  Jcrowley   Dec-12-06 12:28 PM   #133 
                    - As I recall, it's a fallacious argument in which one person ignores another's  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 10:47 AM   #82 
                    - Sorry wakeme, as an outsider not in this fight  Zodiak Ironfist   Dec-13-06 07:20 AM   #201 
  - It's a shame  H2O Man   Dec-12-06 08:02 AM   #19 
  - Amen H2O Man  wicket   Dec-12-06 09:24 AM   #51 
  - It's 'cheaper' than the alternative: a society where everyone is cherished.  Octafish   Dec-12-06 09:39 PM   #191 
  - Can't do the time, don't do the crime.  Squatch   Dec-12-06 08:11 AM   #30 
  - Then you DO believe in torture.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 08:50 AM   #42 
     - You are mistaken to be putting words in my mouth.  Squatch   Dec-12-06 08:51 AM   #43 
        - Again, proving you do believe in torture.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 08:53 AM   #44 
           - Neener neener boo boo.  Squatch   Dec-12-06 08:59 AM   #45 
              - I think you're channneling Bush's "We do not torture" speech.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 09:01 AM   #46 
                 - Locking indiscriminate killers away for a long time is not torture.  Squatch   Dec-12-06 09:06 AM   #48 
                    - No one said locking them up is torture. Please put away your straw men.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 09:07 AM   #49 
  - As someone whom is interested in prisons, and the justice system...  originalpckelly   Dec-12-06 08:12 AM   #32 
  - You might recall Dr Darnay in A Tale of Two Cities  StephenB48   Dec-12-06 01:26 PM   #143 
  - I think they are a waste of money...  Jack_DeLeon   Dec-12-06 08:22 AM   #36 
  - Well then just imagine what the CONCENTRATION CAMP at Guantanmo Bay is like.  The Stranger   Dec-12-06 08:39 AM   #38 
  - So because I didn't address  cali   Dec-12-06 09:03 AM   #47 
  - I think that for the privilege of being a cop, prosecutor, or judge,  Jed Dilligan   Dec-12-06 09:30 AM   #52 
  - Even a week  cali   Dec-12-06 09:33 AM   #54 
  - You are correct  Kelvin Mace   Dec-12-06 09:31 AM   #53 
  - Thank you, Kevin  cali   Dec-12-06 09:34 AM   #56 
     - Treating people we hate like human beings  Kelvin Mace   Dec-12-06 03:07 PM   #155 
     - I can only imagine what great challenge  cali   Dec-12-06 04:36 PM   #163 
     - Part of the problem  Heywoodj   Dec-13-06 11:34 AM   #208 
  - You're not going to get very far in today's climate with any  treestar   Dec-12-06 09:34 AM   #55 
  - Thank you for these links  Book Lover   Dec-12-06 09:35 AM   #57 
  - I worked in Florence, Colorado a couple of years ago...  kentuck   Dec-12-06 09:55 AM   #60 
  - we frequently had escapes from the CCA prison on the west side of nashville  nashville_brook   Dec-12-06 11:59 AM   #109 
  - Thank you, Cali...  MonkeyFunk   Dec-12-06 10:05 AM   #63 
  - Animals can be more deserving of humane treatment...  Jack_DeLeon   Dec-12-06 10:19 AM   #68 
     - OK  MonkeyFunk   Dec-12-06 10:23 AM   #71 
     - Some of it yes...  Jack_DeLeon   Dec-12-06 12:02 PM   #112 
     - If humans should know better, then we should indeed know better than  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 10:50 AM   #87 
        - Why should all prisoners be treated the same?  Jack_DeLeon   Dec-12-06 12:05 PM   #113 
           - Did someone say they should all be treated the same? Or are you  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 12:09 PM   #115 
  - Agreed.  Taxloss   Dec-12-06 10:25 AM   #73 
  - Supermax prisons are politically expedient, but it probably isn't helping to "reform" people  Selatius   Dec-12-06 10:33 AM   #76 
  - An alternative  dbaker41   Dec-12-06 10:45 AM   #81 
  - I agree...  Jack_DeLeon   Dec-12-06 12:08 PM   #114 
  - There's just not enough money to do a good job in corrections.  Ron_Green   Dec-12-06 10:59 AM   #89 
  - care to expand on that?  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 11:43 AM   #104 
     - If we accept that behavior is a result of thinking,  Ron_Green   Dec-12-06 12:14 PM   #119 
        - you're right, it would be incredibly expensive. But it sounds like it could work  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 12:15 PM   #121 
  - Here in AZ  Phx_Dem   Dec-12-06 11:05 AM   #90 
  - Well, if you feel that strongly about it,  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-12-06 11:30 AM   #97 
  - Cutsy little comment  cali   Dec-12-06 11:35 AM   #98 
  - I didn't want to feel left out of the feeding frenzy.  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-12-06 11:47 AM   #106 
  - As Long As You're Going To Hold Up a Remorseless Jihadist As Your Example  Crisco   Dec-12-06 05:03 PM   #165 
  - I've heard this kind of rational argument before, but where?  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 11:41 AM   #103 
     - Oh, and when they suggested we bring back the draft, because that  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-12-06 11:52 AM   #107 
        - Republicans don't get drafted, and won't be in those prisons  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 12:14 PM   #120 
           - So true, not because there's any shortage of Republican criminals, though.  Hippo_Tron   Dec-12-06 12:23 PM   #124 
           - Well, looks like you've found a worthy cause.  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-12-06 01:47 PM   #144 
              - Im not following your snarky and uninformed comment  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 02:01 PM   #146 
                 - I'm saying if you target your anger at the "right" people, you may even  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-12-06 02:27 PM   #151 
                    - and you know that will never happen, so what you are saying is meaningless  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 06:05 PM   #173 
                       - Then you've admitted defeat.  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-12-06 07:34 PM   #184 
                          - I've admitted defeat nowhere. You just offer bullshit "solutions"  ComerPerro   Dec-12-06 09:20 PM   #188 
                             - My old boss you to say, if you want a problem solved, always bitch up.  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-12-06 11:01 PM   #193 
                                - so you honestly think, for example, a draft will work  ComerPerro   Dec-13-06 12:54 AM   #197 
                                   - I think there won't be a draft because talk of a draft will bring people  The Backlash Cometh   Dec-13-06 07:50 AM   #202 
  - this country has a real penchant for punishment but devotes very few resources . . .  OneBlueSky   Dec-12-06 11:40 AM   #101 
  - My son's in prison. Prisoner's are human too....  Joanne98   Dec-12-06 11:46 AM   #105 
  - Thank you for sharing...... K & R  northamericancitizen   Dec-12-06 12:26 PM   #128 
     - Thankyou too.  Joanne98   Dec-12-06 04:06 PM   #159 
  - I completely agree. They're also useless  alcibiades_mystery   Dec-12-06 12:01 PM   #111 
  - IMO, I think it would make senes for both inmates and guards to have SOME social stimulation  Hippo_Tron   Dec-12-06 12:16 PM   #122 
  - I agree with you.  Ron_Green   Dec-12-06 12:27 PM   #130 
  - Yes, interesting cross-cultural comparison  Lydia Leftcoast   Dec-12-06 12:39 PM   #135 
     - It's the same reason we have TVs in prisons  Hippo_Tron   Dec-12-06 01:18 PM   #142 
  - All prisons are torture  SlipperySlope   Dec-12-06 12:24 PM   #126 
  - I wouldn't go that far.  Raskolnik   Dec-12-06 12:36 PM   #134 
  - I don't think you'll find much precedent for that.  Kelly Rupert   Dec-12-06 12:45 PM   #137 
  - Traffic Fine != Torture  SlipperySlope   Dec-12-06 02:01 PM   #147 
     - So torture is defined by its inevitability?  Raskolnik   Dec-12-06 03:41 PM   #157 
        - How do you define torture?  SlipperySlope   Dec-12-06 04:31 PM   #162 
           - I'd say it's somewhere between your definition and George Bush's.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 05:12 PM   #169 
           - That definition is fine, except for the last part...  SlipperySlope   Dec-12-06 05:35 PM   #171 
              - Well, the "severe" word is significant.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 06:24 PM   #176 
                 - The "severe" word (and thanks)  SlipperySlope   Dec-12-06 06:38 PM   #178 
                    - Here's how I think of it:  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 06:41 PM   #182 
           - I think your definition broadens "torture" beyond a useful point.  Raskolnik   Dec-12-06 09:22 PM   #189 
  - So are you advocating the abolisment of prisons?  guardian   Dec-14-06 12:03 PM   #214 
  - spend that money on real research into mental health  mopinko   Dec-12-06 12:27 PM   #129 
  - best post in the thread. nt  piedmont   Dec-12-06 02:10 PM   #148 
  - Bravo!  Joanne98   Dec-12-06 04:24 PM   #160 
  - So, Eric Rudolph, just needs mental health healp rather than punishment?  Freddie Stubbs   Dec-13-06 02:31 PM   #211 
  - The only thing I'd change is to give them access to books. (nt)  w4rma   Dec-12-06 12:28 PM   #132 
  - I'd give them access to books, and take away television.  Ron_Green   Dec-12-06 01:49 PM   #145 
  - I'd allow t.v., but use the V-chip....  piedmont   Dec-12-06 02:17 PM   #150 
     - Actually, I'd use a closed-circuit setup with complete control over programming.  Ron_Green   Dec-12-06 02:42 PM   #153 
  - They don't want them to read....  Joanne98   Dec-12-06 04:26 PM   #161 
  - K&R  G_j   Dec-12-06 12:41 PM   #136 
  - K&R  nam78_two   Dec-12-06 02:13 PM   #149 
  - Nobody has proposed a viable alternative that I've seen.  Xithras   Dec-12-06 02:38 PM   #152 
  - A carefully constructed series of steps to greater freedom is the only way,  Ron_Green   Dec-12-06 02:47 PM   #154 
     - Humane treatment of those incarcerated,  Disturbed   Dec-12-06 05:25 PM   #170 
        - How do we define "humane?"  Ron_Green   Dec-12-06 05:39 PM   #172 
  - I Agree Cali. It Is Definitely A Quite Severe Punishment That I'm Sure Many Debating You Strongly  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Dec-12-06 04:38 PM   #164 
  - Bet his victim would have loved the opportunity to live in a Supermax Prison -  lynne   Dec-12-06 05:12 PM   #168 
  - Injustice is injustice.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 06:29 PM   #177 
     - Perhaps it is you that has the skewed vision when it comes to justice...  Jack_DeLeon   Dec-12-06 08:49 PM   #185 
        - I don't give a fuck about any afterlife.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 09:13 PM   #187 
           - Then you should focus on this one...  Jack_DeLeon   Dec-12-06 09:30 PM   #190 
              - This is the one I'm focused on.  mondo joe   Dec-12-06 11:12 PM   #194 
  - people like Eric Rudolph deserves this kind of punishment  MATTMAN   Dec-12-06 06:07 PM   #174 
  - Yes they are.  lonestarnot   Dec-12-06 09:09 PM   #186 
  - I Disagree.  Supply Side Jesus   Dec-12-06 10:15 PM   #192 
  - I've been in solitary confinement before....once for over two months.  TroubleMan   Dec-13-06 12:10 AM   #195 
  - I think your post  Heywoodj   Dec-13-06 12:02 PM   #209 
  - Thanks.  TroubleMan   Dec-13-06 08:55 PM   #213 
  - Gee I wonder why....  Texas Prison Boss   Dec-14-06 06:28 PM   #216 
     - Just from this one post it's pretty obvious...  madmusic   Dec-15-06 01:30 AM   #218 
        - You know that famous line about what happens when you assume?  Texas Prison Boss   Dec-15-06 06:19 AM   #221 
           - I didn't assume anything.  madmusic   Dec-15-06 06:15 PM   #225 
  - Solitary confinement is torture?  fujiyama   Dec-13-06 01:56 AM   #198 
  - We Torture in American Prisons  RestoreGore   Dec-13-06 11:09 AM   #206 
  - About three quarters of this thread  Heywoodj   Dec-13-06 12:05 PM   #210 
  - Not every inmate gets supermax, they have to earn that status  noonwitch   Dec-13-06 02:36 PM   #212 
  - I speak from experience...  Texas Prison Boss   Dec-14-06 06:22 PM   #215 
  - Surprise, surprise...  madmusic   Dec-15-06 01:34 AM   #219 
  - I know...  Jack_DeLeon   Dec-15-06 02:42 AM   #220 
  - Suprise suprise indeed...  Texas Prison Boss   Dec-15-06 06:21 AM   #222 
     - The harsher the conditions, the higher the recidivism...  madmusic   Dec-15-06 05:45 PM   #224 
  - First of all, I would never  cali   Dec-15-06 07:20 AM   #223 
  - Child rapists, murderers, etc...  NaturalHigh   Dec-15-06 12:07 AM   #217 
 

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