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Reply #119: Who said anything about "stop everything else that you might be investigating"? [View All]

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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-01-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #118
119. Who said anything about "stop everything else that you might be investigating"?
Edited on Fri Dec-01-06 08:48 PM by pat_k
Re: "I certainly don't fit your first two paragraphs in the "anti-impeachment" camp.

The definition is introduced with the phrase "one or more of the following" -- i.e., only one of the five items need apply to qualify.

Re: "stop everything else that you might be investigating"

Congress has a duty to investigate and determine the damage done and root out co-conspirators. I have said this many, many times.

A variety of Congressional investigations in parallel with and following impeachment hearings are assumed.

Members who are prepared to open their mouths and accuse Bush and Cheney of their crimes have staffs that are more than capable of preparing a resolution enumerating articles. That is a first, not a last step. If the committee assigned the resolution takes it up, it can also be assumed that they would hold hearings to present supporting testimony, documents, and so on. There really doesn't need to be much. The case is INCREDIBLY simple -- which makes it all the more powerful.

If members on other committees conducting investigations uncover things they want to add to the articles they can introduce a resolution to add them. The judiciary committee or select committee or whatever committee that has been assigned jurisdiction over the resolution (or resolutions) enumerating articles would undoubtedly consider anything submitted by other committees. Impeachment hearings are where they "get together and formalize the evidence gathering." Getting the consensus required to vote finalized articles out of committee will require what it requires. You start with the case you have and go from there.

ALL I'm asking of each and every Member of the House (Republicans included) is to OPEN THEIR MOUTHS -- break the silence. The public has made accusations against Bush and Cheney. What are they doing about it?

If they believe the accusations are valid, open their mouth and join in the accusation. Declare their intent with regard to impeachment.

If they believe there is insufficient basis for the accusations, open their mouth and tell us what is missing, explicitly.

If they believe the accusations are bogus, open their mouth and tell us their reasons for dismissing them.

We can challenge what they have to say, but they have to say it first.

Their oath is an individual oath; their duty an individual duty. Each and every member has an INDEPENDENT responsibility to act. Any member that believes the Constitution is under attack has a duty to call us to arms -- to declare their intent to impeach, make the case, and call for support.

It does not matter what their colleagues are doing.

Silence is complicity.

Their unwillingness to say the I-word is silencing them. They cannot tell the truth because the truth demands action. They will not speak the truth until they are willing to say the I-word.

When the accusations are spoken, their duty to impeach is inescapable. Any member who publicly accuses Bush and Cheney will be asked "What are you going to do about it?" If the answer is "nothing, impeachment is off the table," they'll sound like morally confused morons. If they don't want to sound like idiots, they had better accuse and declare their intent to impeach at the same time.

Any proposed plan or process or strategy that does not challenge each and every member to "go public" and break their silence is unacceptable.

We lobby them individually. Our demand is simple. Open your mouth. Now.
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  -"If the impeachment provision in the Constitution. . ." --Barbara Jordan pat_k  Nov-27-06 03:14 PM   #0 
  - proudly kicking and recommending-- we must get these criminals...  mike_c   Nov-27-06 03:19 PM   #1 
  - More power to you if you can convince 16 Republican Senators cause that's what it will take.  Bernardo de La Paz   Nov-28-06 11:28 AM   #47 
     - Probably 17...  GOTV   Nov-28-06 12:15 PM   #49 
  - Thank you  magellan   Nov-27-06 03:20 PM   #2 
  - Barbara Jordan  kineneb   Nov-27-06 03:21 PM   #3 
  - Of the "Top 100" her '76 DNC Keynote ranks 5th (this one is 13th)  pat_k   Nov-27-06 04:09 PM   #11 
  - K & R wow what a cool site. Thanks for posting nt.  glitch   Nov-27-06 06:20 PM   #21 
  - She is one of my ALL-TIME heroes! Amazing, incredible, awesome human being!  TahitiNut   Nov-28-06 01:31 AM   #33 
  - K&R  flamin lib   Nov-27-06 03:22 PM   #4 
  - Kick & Nominated  pberq   Nov-27-06 03:26 PM   #5 
  - words of power and wisdom  grizmaster   Nov-27-06 03:26 PM   #6 
  - Rep, Jordan speaks truth to power.  Disturbed   Nov-28-06 04:38 AM   #40 
  - Now there was a magnificent woman.  calimary   Nov-27-06 03:27 PM   #7 
  - Spine-tingling. . .  pat_k   Nov-27-06 04:13 PM   #12 
  - Recommended  bonito   Nov-27-06 03:30 PM   #8 
  - Senator's journal is amazing.  Gregorian   Nov-27-06 03:31 PM   #9 
  - Can listen to an mp2 on . .  pat_k   Nov-27-06 04:15 PM   #13 
     - Great website!  Gregorian   Nov-27-06 04:52 PM   #17 
  - Bush is the reason why the founders invented impeachment  rman   Nov-27-06 03:32 PM   #10 
  - I've done a lot of thinking about the whole impeachment issue and  BlackVelvet04   Nov-27-06 04:24 PM   #14 
  - Right to the point! Well said! nt  puebloknot   Nov-27-06 04:32 PM   #16 
  - Leaving the world of calculation for one of infinite possibility  pat_k   Nov-27-06 07:43 PM   #26 
  - How will Impeachment without conviction protect anything?  GOTV   Nov-28-06 01:22 PM   #57 
     - We all have a choice: the right side of history or the wrong side. Win or lose.  pat_k   Nov-28-06 10:16 PM   #74 
     - "Standing and fighting for principles" is not the same as impeachment  GOTV   Nov-29-06 09:40 AM   #83 
        - The principle of consent does not constitute "principle"?  pat_k   Nov-29-06 10:30 AM   #86 
           - Impeachment is a weapon, I agree - and Bush is presently out of range  GOTV   Nov-29-06 11:52 AM   #92 
              - The duty of the House is to accuse --- to impeach. Well within range.  pat_k   Nov-29-06 01:57 PM   #96 
                 - I think everyone knows that the House probably can "impeach"...  calipendence   Nov-29-06 05:07 PM   #103 
                    - The case for impeachment is simple, clear, convincing, and complete.  pat_k   Nov-29-06 11:46 PM   #107 
                       - That article doesn't apply to me. I'm NOT advocating inaction on impeachment...  calipendence   Nov-30-06 10:03 AM   #108 
                          - You are are opposing impeachment on the clear, compelling, and complete case we have.  pat_k   Nov-30-06 07:56 PM   #113 
                             - Please don't call me anti-impeachment...  calipendence   Nov-30-06 09:06 PM   #115 
                                - I do not challenge your desire for impeachment, only the rationalizations you invoke  pat_k   Dec-01-06 02:09 PM   #117 
                                   - I think we need to separate what we want and what should and could happen...  calipendence   Dec-01-06 04:36 PM   #118 
                                      - Who said anything about "stop everything else that you might be investigating"?  pat_k   Dec-01-06 08:26 PM   #119 
     - Any Impeachment that is not bi-partisan will be met with a large  312MIB   Dec-01-06 09:19 PM   #120 
  - K&R to Powers of 10!  puebloknot   Nov-27-06 04:30 PM   #15 
  - Jaywalking is enough to impeach, when you control the House....  GOTV   Nov-28-06 01:34 PM   #58 
     - You think...  puebloknot   Nov-28-06 05:04 PM   #66 
        - Yes, I do think that in fact.  GOTV   Nov-29-06 09:45 AM   #84 
  - Barbara Jordan=Cynthia McKinney  Independent_Liberal   Nov-27-06 05:04 PM   #18 
  - McKinney is a hero. Note she's appearing 12/4 in DC at an  petgoat   Nov-27-06 05:42 PM   #20 
  - No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.  Vinca   Nov-28-06 06:49 AM   #42 
  - selfdelete  rman   Nov-29-06 09:35 AM   #82 
  - Send this to all your senators, and a special copy to Feingold.  mom cat   Nov-27-06 05:38 PM   #19 
  - My only desire to wait to accuse is to get a COMPLETE investigation!  calipendence   Nov-27-06 06:36 PM   #22 
  - There's nothing to "investigate"  Senator   Nov-27-06 07:38 PM   #24 
     - I want a two thirds vote in the Senate to put both of them out of office!  calipendence   Nov-27-06 08:35 PM   #27 
     - {must investigate} = {don't have a case} = {nullify powerful case we HAVE}  pat_k   Nov-28-06 01:14 AM   #31 
     - If we can continue to investigate to add to our case, by all means file articles of impeachment!  calipendence   Nov-28-06 08:44 AM   #44 
     - {Powerful case} - {67 Senators who agree} = {it doesn't matter}  GOTV   Nov-28-06 01:02 PM   #55 
        - {Failure to accuse} = {Exoneration} = {"Accessory After the Fact" War Criminal}  pat_k   Nov-28-06 03:27 PM   #60 
           - {impeachment} - {conviction} = {exoneration} also  GOTV   Nov-29-06 10:18 AM   #85 
              - So, you think police should not pursue and arrest unless they are certain. . .  pat_k   Nov-29-06 11:04 AM   #88 
                 - Police, like everyone, should not use methods expected to fail - yes.  GOTV   Nov-29-06 12:02 PM   #93 
                    - When police successfully apprehend, their duty is done. If the House successfully impeaches. . .  pat_k   Nov-29-06 01:35 PM   #94 
     - And while waiting until you're "ready now"...  Senator   Nov-28-06 04:08 AM   #39 
        - I don't want to wait either...  calipendence   Nov-28-06 08:39 AM   #43 
           - You are waiting for Godot (and perhaps Waterloo)  Senator   Nov-28-06 09:17 AM   #45 
           - Not even 67% of the country is for Imp, how will you get 67 Senators?  GOTV   Nov-28-06 12:53 PM   #52 
           - The Senators will "get" themselves...  Senator   Nov-29-06 05:05 AM   #80 
              - Impeachment defends nothing, only conviction does any good.  GOTV   Nov-29-06 11:35 AM   #89 
                 - Yes, you've said -- "only conviction" for you  Senator   Nov-29-06 03:19 PM   #98 
                    - Likewise none of you are planning properly for impeachment  GOTV   Nov-29-06 04:08 PM   #99 
                    - Then please do post the "Proper Plan"  Senator   Nov-29-06 06:18 PM   #104 
                       - Ok, I'm not privvy to all info that congress critters have, but here's a start...  calipendence   Nov-29-06 09:37 PM   #106 
                          - I see  Senator   Nov-30-06 01:49 PM   #109 
                             - Congress having power is EXACTLY my point!...  calipendence   Nov-30-06 02:23 PM   #110 
                                - Again, this is looking for "proof"...  Senator   Nov-30-06 10:50 PM   #116 
                    - Yes, I don't think there's many here that don't want to fight the battle. I do!  calipendence   Nov-29-06 05:00 PM   #102 
                       - See my post #104 above  Senator   Nov-29-06 08:35 PM   #105 
           - ...slap in the face...  puebloknot   Nov-28-06 05:24 PM   #67 
           - You know your shit calipendence...  Independent_Liberal   Nov-28-06 02:50 PM   #59 
     - It doesn't matter if Bush drinks the blood of babies on TV ...  GOTV   Nov-28-06 12:46 PM   #51 
        - The following Republicans are up for re-election in 2008...  calipendence   Nov-28-06 04:04 PM   #62 
        - Roberts will probably go down in the Plame/Niger/Yellowcake/WMD/Intelligence Leak cover-up.  Independent_Liberal   Nov-28-06 07:37 PM   #71 
        - Exactly, and how do their constituents feel about impeachment?  GOTV   Nov-29-06 09:29 AM   #81 
        - It's time for impeachment as soon...  puebloknot   Nov-28-06 05:03 PM   #65 
           - For me I completely agree SOME attempt at impeachment needs to happen!  calipendence   Nov-28-06 05:29 PM   #68 
              - Justice delayed is justice denied!  puebloknot   Nov-29-06 01:23 AM   #77 
                 - Well , no Justice today - so it's denied then?, or will you wait another day?  GOTV   Nov-29-06 11:47 AM   #91 
                    - Ignoring your sarcasm for a moment...  puebloknot   Nov-30-06 04:03 PM   #111 
  - Bravo!  TheGoldenRule   Nov-27-06 06:52 PM   #23 
  - Indeed. There are a lot of cowards here.  Zhade   Nov-28-06 04:04 AM   #38 
  - So simple even Bush could sell it....  GOTV   Nov-28-06 12:57 PM   #53 
  - Yep.  bobthedrummer   Dec-07-06 07:29 PM   #123 
  - goddamned right put these criminals in prison  emald   Nov-27-06 07:43 PM   #25 
  - A little something for the "Impeach Cheney first" crowd (I'm in this group too)...  Independent_Liberal   Nov-27-06 10:08 PM   #28 
  - Bush and Cheney are a package -- you can't charge one w/o the other. . .  pat_k   Nov-28-06 11:41 AM   #48 
  - She was one of the greats  ninkasi   Nov-27-06 11:50 PM   #29 
  - I can hear her voice! What an inspiration she was/is. The point she makes here is why it seems that  omega minimo   Nov-28-06 12:24 AM   #30 
  - . . .a geometric progression of awareness and action . .  pat_k   Nov-28-06 02:26 AM   #35 
     - Nice work pat_k. Here's one for the "strategerists" and spoiled cynics  omega minimo   Nov-28-06 12:18 PM   #50 
     - Thank you -- you're "Impeace" post is powerful. . .  pat_k   Nov-28-06 07:34 PM   #70 
        - too "challenging"  omega minimo   Nov-29-06 10:51 AM   #87 
     - A great many of those on "our side"...  puebloknot   Nov-30-06 04:15 PM   #112 
  - Barbara Jordan rocked! She was a great Lady!  BikeWriter   Nov-28-06 01:22 AM   #32 
  - Barbara Jordan was a remarkable woman  XOKCowboy   Nov-28-06 01:31 AM   #34 
  - Were she here now I'd vote for her for President in a minute!  BikeWriter   Nov-28-06 02:35 AM   #36 
  - K & R  malaise   Nov-28-06 03:12 AM   #37 
  - She was one of a kind & I miss seeing & hearing her speak  Alamom   Nov-28-06 05:28 AM   #41 
  - Somebody quick! Pull the the plug on Bush's paper shreder!  followthemoney   Nov-28-06 11:08 AM   #46 
  - Our representatives will do what we tell them to do. If that's impeachment, they will impeach.  porphyrian   Nov-28-06 12:58 PM   #54 
  - That's right. So the path to removal from office begins with the people...  GOTV   Nov-28-06 01:12 PM   #56 
     - The burden is on them. They took an oath.  pat_k   Nov-28-06 04:03 PM   #61 
        - I believe that's true as well. - n/t  porphyrian   Nov-28-06 06:40 PM   #69 
        - Oaths are irrelevant to what will actually happen...  GOTV   Nov-29-06 11:42 AM   #90 
           - No. We should remember WHY we take oaths.  pat_k   Nov-29-06 02:18 PM   #97 
              - What one SHOULD do and what one WILL do are different - and only 1 of those are relevant  GOTV   Nov-29-06 04:14 PM   #100 
                 - No. The duty we have charged them with is what we demand. What they ARE doing is betraying, , ,  pat_k   Nov-29-06 04:30 PM   #101 
  - You conveniently missed her tag line in this speech.  longship   Nov-28-06 04:19 PM   #63 
  - Excluded because it doesn't apply now, as I point out in the the section that follows the excerpts.  pat_k   Nov-28-06 04:31 PM   #64 
     - Doesn't apply?  longship   Nov-29-06 12:09 AM   #75 
        - You're assertions are orthogonal to the points that I, and others, have made. . .  pat_k   Nov-29-06 12:30 AM   #76 
           - No disputes there at all.  longship   Nov-29-06 01:32 AM   #78 
              - If they don't trust the public with the truth and accuse Bush and Cheney . . .  pat_k   Nov-29-06 02:15 AM   #79 
  - Somewhere's along the way Bush must be impeached, amerika would suck if not!!  Imagevision   Nov-28-06 07:39 PM   #72 
  - K wish I could R! n/t  AntiFascist   Nov-28-06 07:56 PM   #73 
  - Almost missed this  Jcrowley   Nov-29-06 01:37 PM   #95 
  - She was an amazing speaker--there will never be another one like her  Perragrande   Nov-30-06 08:57 PM   #114 
  - Perhaps the time is ripe to revive the effort? With DUers as a resource for seed money. . .  pat_k   Dec-06-06 02:52 PM   #122 
  - KICK.  bobthedrummer   Dec-06-06 09:51 AM   #121 

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