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Reply #130: This is correct. We are simply missing new rules.... [View All]

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LeftHander (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Nov-27-06 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
130. This is correct. We are simply missing new rules....
We all want to believe that our individual beliefs are the best way.

But what is the underlying fundemental basis for these beliefs?

The OP indicates that it is selfishness...and I agree with that.

An America filled with hybrid powered vehicles is still an America based on a car centric consumer culture.

We will still "want" all the goodies our technological society offers. So yes the OP is correct. We are pretending at what it takes to really make a difference in our future and are still stuck on the comfort and desires we have in this mortal coil we call life.

What the OP is trying to get us to understand is that it is not simply to cast out those who do not believe the same as we do, but it is more to make understanding possible. We do want to be understanding, we do want to gentle we do want peace and prosperity, who wouldn't. The trick is we have to convince people that those things do not come without personal sacrifice. We have to give up our opulant, outrageous lifestyle and adopt and new relationship with the earth and our fellow citizens.

As we go forward I hope we can figure out and agree on the rules that will make life better for all humanity, all colors, all faiths and all the flora and fauna of this beautiful earth.



I saw this image on Al Gore's movie the other day. It was on my wall for years in my youth and is the wallpaper on my work computer

We will come learn that Gods and Goddesses have a place in our culture and in the definition of our morality. we also will understand that for every individual comfort we enjoy someone is suffering because of that and if we can ease the suffering of others and give up some of our selfish desires we can then all begin to move to a more universally peaceful and proseperous planet free of the judgement and conflict we now suffer.

It is our future. I hope we can all start to find ways to embrace it.

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  Are you pretending? blindpig  Nov-27-06 11:30 AM   #0 
   Please do not count me in your 'we'. I do not agree with what you have written.  sinkingfeeling   Nov-27-06 11:34 AM   #1 
   I completely disagree with the O.P.  electropop   Nov-27-06 03:45 PM   #79 
      Why would you think so?  DancingBear   Nov-27-06 06:52 PM   #117 
         there is much non truth in it which could also be a reason people  seabeyond   Nov-28-06 09:43 AM   #161 
   this isnt my reality. i could go further, but would take time. n/t  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 11:36 AM   #2 
   True. But *some* of this describes the DU gestalt to a tee  mongo   Nov-27-06 12:50 PM   #27 
      dupe  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 01:28 PM   #36 
      dupe  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 01:28 PM   #37 
      there may have been truth thru out the post. i couldnt get past the  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 01:28 PM   #38 
      It was written by an enemy of the left to give you fuel for your fire  omega minimo   Nov-27-06 04:57 PM   #101 
         And of course truth is only true if presented by a vetted person  mongo   Nov-28-06 12:02 PM   #174 
            You 're still confused. The piece was not written as anyone's truth. It is a farce.  omega minimo   Nov-28-06 01:47 PM   #181 
               And the part I quoted above  mongo   Nov-28-06 02:41 PM   #183 
                  You're still confused. You attack what you don't understand.  omega minimo   Nov-28-06 04:12 PM   #186 
   I strongly disagree  caseycoon   Nov-27-06 11:37 AM   #3 
   This is Democratic Underground  bryant69   Nov-27-06 11:37 AM   #4 
   *Huh?!*  omega minimo   Nov-27-06 01:11 PM   #30 
      Good comeback  bryant69   Nov-27-06 02:08 PM   #49 
         How did you get from that bogus OP to Marxism?  omega minimo   Nov-27-06 05:15 PM   #104 
            I think he picked up the baton of materialism and ran with it  DireStrike   Nov-27-06 07:40 PM   #122 
            From the OP  bryant69   Nov-28-06 09:33 AM   #159 
   Had to read this twice  Bluzmann57   Nov-27-06 11:39 AM   #5 
   Twaddle.  DemItAllAnyway   Nov-27-06 11:39 AM   #6 
   Somebody, call the Roter Rooter guy  havocmom   Nov-27-06 11:39 AM   #7 
   I think a coffee enema needs to be applied here.  Donnachaidh   Nov-27-06 11:42 AM   #8 
   That sounds something like the "intelligentsia" of the French  Dhalgren   Nov-27-06 11:46 AM   #9 
   Huh?  KerrytravelersDU Moderator   Nov-27-06 11:46 AM   #10 
   Another entertaining point  bryant69   Nov-27-06 11:47 AM   #11 
   Unfalsifiable assertions for the win! (n/t)  kiahzero   Nov-27-06 11:59 AM   #15 
   Definitely not a pretender, but the illegal immigration issue  Truth Hurts A Lot   Nov-27-06 11:50 AM   #12 
   I have to disagree with that  lwfern   Nov-27-06 10:23 PM   #146 
      Who exactly is us?!  sadiesworld   Nov-28-06 05:55 PM   #188 
         It's nationalism  lwfern   Nov-29-06 10:19 AM   #191 
   Judging by the replies so far, me thinks you've struck a nerve here.  greyhound1966   Nov-27-06 11:52 AM   #13 
   first paragraph.... if i say this is not me, that i do not believe this,  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 11:57 AM   #14 
   Not you, us. I don't see how we can deny it, just look at the record.  greyhound1966   Dec-01-06 03:46 PM   #195 
   Yeah... if we disagree, we're just agreeing!  kiahzero   Nov-27-06 12:00 PM   #16 
   The writer is talking about our society...it says 'liberals and progressives'.  sinkingfeeling   Nov-27-06 12:07 PM   #17 
   Hmmmmm  bryant69   Nov-27-06 12:11 PM   #18 
   Yeah, so where's the anger come from? Why not just answer  petgoat   Nov-27-06 03:21 PM   #71 
      Because wild accusatiosn wild up the blood  bryant69   Nov-27-06 03:24 PM   #72 
      I did... see below  DireStrike   Nov-27-06 07:36 PM   #121 
   I'm with greyhound here  sui generis   Nov-27-06 12:33 PM   #21 
   Thank you, we are definitely in the minority here.  greyhound1966   Nov-27-06 01:27 PM   #35 
   dupe  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 01:36 PM   #41 
   did you see the video by faithless... the one not allowed on mtv  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 01:36 PM   #42 
   No, nothing but the occasional broadcast shows here.  greyhound1966   Dec-01-06 03:49 PM   #196 
      i saw it on the net, from a post on du  seabeyond   Dec-02-06 05:35 PM   #205 
   Your argument is like this conversation...  uppityperson   Nov-27-06 01:52 PM   #44 
   the Mexican conflict definitely comes to mind here --  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 02:19 PM   #54 
      Madison and factions  Katzenjammer   Nov-27-06 02:33 PM   #58 
         "factions" ... competing interests... have we lost them with the unions?  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 02:42 PM   #62 
            Good points, but I don't know how to respond. Could you expand a bit?  Katzenjammer   Nov-27-06 02:58 PM   #70 
               yah -- it seems that the problem now isn't "factionalism," rather it's the absence  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 03:59 PM   #82 
                  Okay, got it now. And of course I agree.  Katzenjammer   Dec-01-06 03:27 PM   #193 
   i'm with greyhound and sui here too -- so, WHAT ACTIONs do we do?  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 02:04 PM   #47 
   Nonsense  ProfessorGAC   Nov-27-06 12:39 PM   #23 
   Rather than attacking the messenger, why not address the issue?  greyhound1966   Nov-27-06 01:18 PM   #32 
      8000 lb truck? stock portfolio? Boy, sure wish I had access to those.  uppityperson   Nov-27-06 01:54 PM   #46 
      I think everyone is trying to differentiate themselves as quickly as possible  sui generis   Nov-27-06 04:32 PM   #91 
      not meaning to be a reverse snob, just annoys me when people assume  uppityperson   Nov-27-06 04:39 PM   #95 
      Well said, as usual.  greyhound1966   Nov-27-06 04:40 PM   #96 
      If people didn't feel their cause was superior why would they bother? nt  leeroysphits   Nov-27-06 08:46 PM   #139 
      Because It's Intellectually Dishonest, sui  ProfessorGAC   Nov-28-06 08:06 AM   #155 
         i don't think it's intellectually dishonest to defend one's position  nashville_brook   Nov-28-06 01:08 PM   #180 
      Any broad generalization like this is just that. In my reply I used a few  greyhound1966   Nov-27-06 04:37 PM   #94 
      We want people to shop locally  loyalsister   Nov-27-06 06:20 PM   #111 
      Good questions all. There are a lot of points here that bear questioning.  atommom   Nov-27-06 09:45 PM   #144 
      I used to think it was, I've become less certain as the years have passed  greyhound1966   Nov-28-06 07:25 AM   #149 
         I hope not. But so many unbelievable things have happened that  atommom   Nov-28-06 08:18 AM   #156 
      Attack The Messenger?  ProfessorGAC   Nov-28-06 08:04 AM   #154 
         That is utterly ludicrous, I could certainly make the counter-argument  greyhound1966   Dec-01-06 03:57 PM   #198 
   The OP didn't strike a nerve, but you sure did.  brazenlyliberal   Nov-27-06 02:52 PM   #69 
   I'm sorry, did we get health-care while I wasn't paying attention?  greyhound1966   Dec-01-06 04:05 PM   #199 
   No. 'We' just don't like being mischaracterized. The op is incoherent and insulting.  w4rma   Nov-27-06 04:07 PM   #87 
   Only too true.  Vidar   Dec-02-06 05:34 PM   #204 
   Interestng...  HughMoran   Dec-02-06 06:59 PM   #207 
   Sounds Like Somebody is Resentful  stepnw1f   Nov-27-06 12:15 PM   #19 
   you've made quite a mistake  loveandlight   Nov-27-06 12:20 PM   #20 
   Or If You Listen to Right WIng Pundits Stereotype Liberals  stepnw1f   Nov-27-06 12:45 PM   #24 
   Mostly, I don't get this.......  FredStembottom   Nov-27-06 12:36 PM   #22 
   Another Frank Luntz gem?  omega minimo   Nov-27-06 12:47 PM   #25 
   No, but I *am* pondering... where you found this, why you posted it & what you're trying to say.  Sapphire Blue   Nov-27-06 12:48 PM   #26 
   Hmmm....I see some of this in the culture  Zodiak Ironfist   Nov-27-06 12:50 PM   #28 
   This is what is left in the stock trailer after you take the Bulls out.  Vincardog   Nov-27-06 01:07 PM   #29 
   Pah.  Dora   Nov-27-06 01:12 PM   #31 
   where on the internets did you find this?  uppityperson   Nov-27-06 01:19 PM   #33 
   Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-27-06 02:06 PM   #48 
      I found that also, was hoping OP would give more info  uppityperson   Nov-27-06 02:09 PM   #50 
   I smell poop on this thread  Generic Other   Nov-27-06 01:24 PM   #34 
   Hey, "Rush Jr.", it doesn't take much to be "better people" than today's republicans  No Exit   Nov-27-06 01:33 PM   #39 
   Shorter OP: Durn Librul Elitists!  Heaven and Earth   Nov-27-06 01:36 PM   #40 
   The usual bullshit stereotype.  smoogatz   Nov-27-06 01:37 PM   #43 
   This quote here scares the shit out of me  DancingBear   Nov-27-06 07:29 PM   #120 
      I partially disagree  DireStrike   Nov-27-06 07:44 PM   #123 
      Right. The key to appealing to working people is to pretend we're stupid.  smoogatz   Nov-27-06 08:10 PM   #132 
   a ramble on this vintage-1970 critique (The Greening of America vs Collective Action)  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 01:53 PM   #45 
   No. nm  dicksteele   Nov-27-06 02:12 PM   #51 
   That's me. No apologies though. I can be brutally honest about myself and live with myself.  info being   Nov-27-06 02:14 PM   #52 
   authentic self. i havent heard that in a long time. this takes me to  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 02:18 PM   #53 
   I don't see how it naturally leads to selfishness  info being   Nov-27-06 02:25 PM   #55 
      selfishness in authentic self  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 02:37 PM   #60 
         I completely accept your position on this  info being   Nov-27-06 02:46 PM   #66 
   and the free market is working so well...  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 02:28 PM   #56 
   Who said anything about economics?  info being   Nov-27-06 02:45 PM   #64 
   my ex had a spiritual need for his $40K convertible BMW,  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 03:39 PM   #75 
      You are still defining this in terms of how we fit with "the world"  info being   Nov-27-06 03:59 PM   #83 
      i *do* have a bit of guilt for a prior remark i made on a thread on another  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 04:29 PM   #89 
         I'm down with you too :-)  info being   Nov-27-06 04:54 PM   #99 
         all good stuff in your post. what i have seen today alone.....  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 05:28 PM   #105 
            i pray you are right  nashville_brook   Nov-28-06 12:59 PM   #179 
      your last paragraph absolutely answers your question about the heat  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 05:11 PM   #103 
         thanks! shame that the tone of the OP was so confrontational, b/c there's something  nashville_brook   Nov-28-06 12:23 PM   #176 
   The individual and the market are opposites  info being   Nov-27-06 02:47 PM   #67 
      we are blood enemies -- corporate interest vs public interest  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 03:44 PM   #77 
   this essay argues against grand social "systems"  nashville_brook   Nov-27-06 02:31 PM   #57 
   Agree and disagree. Guess that's why I'm an Anarchist.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Nov-27-06 02:35 PM   #59 
   Be careful what you pretend to be, because you are what you pretend to be.  grizmaster   Nov-27-06 02:38 PM   #61 
   You think "the world" can truly see us?  info being   Nov-27-06 02:49 PM   #68 
      maybe my choice of words was vague  grizmaster   Nov-27-06 03:35 PM   #73 
         you so sure their judgments bear less validity than your own self-evaluation?  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 03:38 PM   #74 
            ever have someone tell you they know you better than you know yourself?  grizmaster   Nov-27-06 03:44 PM   #78 
            You're talking about *relationships*  info being   Nov-27-06 04:04 PM   #86 
            They have been invariably wrong in my case  Lilith Velkor   Nov-27-06 04:26 PM   #88 
               you've always been right about yourself  grizmaster   Nov-27-06 04:42 PM   #97 
                  interesting to watch you challenge her to conformity while knowing nothing  info being   Nov-27-06 04:46 PM   #98 
                  never tried to prove whether it's unlikely or likely  grizmaster   Nov-28-06 09:18 AM   #157 
                  Being right about myself is actually not that difficult  Lilith Velkor   Nov-27-06 05:55 PM   #109 
            I completely agree with you :-)  info being   Nov-27-06 04:02 PM   #85 
               or they will in time as they walk their journey, it is everyones opportunity  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 05:38 PM   #107 
   On second reading...  madmusic   Nov-27-06 02:43 PM   #63 
   By all means, feel free to apply that analysis to yourself.  brazenlyliberal   Nov-27-06 02:45 PM   #65 
   thought experiment  sui generis   Nov-27-06 04:35 PM   #93 
      He provided a solid answer  DireStrike   Nov-27-06 07:48 PM   #124 
         durrrr?  sui generis   Nov-28-06 09:38 AM   #160 
            because people see the whole of the post, rather than break it down  seabeyond   Nov-28-06 09:54 AM   #162 
               well my irritation  sui generis   Nov-28-06 10:14 AM   #165 
                  honestly i heard people going after what was written.  seabeyond   Nov-28-06 10:33 AM   #166 
                  well I didn't see you doing it, but it's in this thread in spades  sui generis   Nov-28-06 11:02 AM   #169 
                     cute, cute .... cute..... lol n/t  seabeyond   Nov-28-06 03:53 PM   #184 
                  my point. this article creates a LOT of people in a way they are NOT  seabeyond   Nov-28-06 10:52 AM   #168 
                     was that rhetorical or addressing me?  sui generis   Nov-28-06 11:07 AM   #170 
                        mercurial  seabeyond   Nov-28-06 04:04 PM   #185 
   Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-27-06 03:42 PM   #76 
   That's a pretty accurate description of our society, I'm sorry to say. nt  atommom   Nov-27-06 03:46 PM   #80 
   Why I posted this  blindpig   Nov-27-06 03:52 PM   #81 
   The issue is valid but this was written by a Luntz or Rove clone to stigmatize, not reflect.  omega minimo   Nov-27-06 04:32 PM   #90 
   If you really believe what you wrote then your glass house is shattered to pieces.  w4rma   Nov-27-06 05:35 PM   #106 
   thank you for your reply, but no i dont think the  seabeyond   Nov-27-06 05:42 PM   #108 
   I think whoever wrote this needs to get off the campus and into the real world.  impeachdubya   Nov-27-06 06:31 PM   #115 
   The problem, if you will,  sjbech   Nov-27-06 04:02 PM   #84 
   Someone hand the OP a mirror and a book on psychology bookmarked  leftupnorth   Nov-27-06 04:34 PM   #92 
   I try to be honest  JNelson6563   Nov-27-06 04:57 PM   #100 
   I would have no objection to the OP.....  bvar22   Nov-27-06 05:05 PM   #102 
   Obvious RW propaganda written to make the Left look like  kestrel91316   Nov-27-06 06:18 PM   #110 
   I dunno, man. This sounds sincere. I mean, look at the complete inability  impeachdubya   Nov-27-06 06:28 PM   #114 
   Google "much pretending throughout the progressive and liberal community" for a link...  Sapphire Blue   Nov-27-06 07:57 PM   #126 
      FYI this person was a poster here as well...  ReadTomPaine   Dec-08-06 02:56 PM   #215 
   This person seems to be railing against what he views as "self-serving behavior"  impeachdubya   Nov-27-06 06:25 PM   #112 
   ROFLMAO!  Usrename   Nov-28-06 12:00 PM   #173 
   This reminds me of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion"  kestrel91316   Nov-27-06 06:26 PM   #113 
   "Found" on the internet(s)? Link?? 4 paragraph rule?  SoCalDem   Nov-27-06 06:34 PM   #116 
   See post #126  Sapphire Blue   Nov-27-06 08:00 PM   #127 
   So, blindpig, are YOU 'pretending' to be something you are not? Bears pondering...  Mayberry Machiavelli   Nov-27-06 07:13 PM   #118 
   Nope, no pretending here  DireStrike   Nov-27-06 07:24 PM   #119 
   Newt Gingrinch, is that you?  Lex   Nov-27-06 07:50 PM   #125 
   What a bunch of bullshit. Of course that's just my personal opinion.  Blue in Portland   Nov-27-06 08:02 PM   #128 
   It's all about dignity IMHO  mentalsolstice   Nov-27-06 08:03 PM   #129 
   This is correct. We are simply missing new rules....  LeftHander   Nov-27-06 08:05 PM   #130 
   What's with all the references to "lifestyle choices"? Here we go again.  readmoreoften   Nov-27-06 08:06 PM   #131 
   This whole post is a repost from "mberst" on "progressiveindependent.com":  Mayberry Machiavelli   Nov-27-06 08:24 PM   #133 
   yup.  uppityperson   Nov-27-06 08:28 PM   #134 
   Maybe links to that site are banned, although I wouldn't know why since I've never heard of it.  Mayberry Machiavelli   Nov-27-06 08:30 PM   #135 
      Don't know the background but it is one of the sites "that must not be linked"  greyhound1966   Nov-28-06 07:31 AM   #151 
      Indeed PI & Conservative Underground are the dreaded sites  Vidar   Dec-02-06 05:30 PM   #202 
         oops... you just named them.  Sapphire Blue   Dec-02-06 05:32 PM   #203 
   ah - HA. Sly, very sly.  crispini   Nov-27-06 09:34 PM   #142 
   MBerst used to post on DU as well.  ReadTomPaine   Dec-08-06 03:00 PM   #216 
   I am a liberal, and I think this is bullshit.  crispini   Nov-27-06 08:37 PM   #136 
   Well since "blindpig" has posted this flamebait they have not returned to  Mayberry Machiavelli   Nov-27-06 08:38 PM   #137 
   No.  CJCRANE   Nov-27-06 08:41 PM   #138 
   Two words - Foley, Haggard.  CJCRANE   Nov-27-06 08:47 PM   #140 
   Oh wait - I really have the right answer. mberst was talking about himself  HopeLives   Nov-27-06 09:21 PM   #141 
   Actually, if you read the thread in the original context,  crispini   Nov-27-06 09:38 PM   #143 
      Yes, I did see that. The amazing thing is that they don't  HopeLives   Nov-28-06 07:36 AM   #152 
   Truth hurts  meganmonkey   Nov-27-06 09:49 PM   #145 
   You must be in a lot of pain. n/t  HopeLives   Nov-28-06 07:25 AM   #150 
   It's hard not to be...  meganmonkey   Nov-28-06 10:01 AM   #163 
   No! He's not talking about us!!  DancingBear   Nov-28-06 07:56 AM   #153 
      It's not a mirror.  CJCRANE   Nov-28-06 10:04 AM   #164 
      Hardly  DancingBear   Nov-28-06 10:44 AM   #167 
         Ok  CJCRANE   Nov-28-06 11:28 AM   #172 
      Do you realize how superior you sound? n/t  HopeLives   Nov-28-06 12:32 PM   #177 
   At the end of the day  Jcrowley   Nov-27-06 10:38 PM   #147 
   Well said as always/nt  nam78_two   Dec-02-06 10:49 PM   #209 
   Um, no.  mhatrw   Nov-28-06 12:16 AM   #148 
   wft?  BlueEyedSon   Nov-28-06 09:29 AM   #158 
   what fuck the?  JVS   Dec-03-06 02:48 AM   #211 
   I think you're full of shit  ComerPerro   Nov-28-06 11:10 AM   #171 
   I find more to agree with than disagree.  lumberjack_jeff   Nov-28-06 12:16 PM   #175 
   No. I'm pretending that Bush and the neo-cons are building a better world  kentuck   Nov-28-06 12:35 PM   #178 
   Is there a question here?  Jim Warren   Nov-28-06 02:11 PM   #182 
   Maybe you need new friends  omega minimo   Nov-28-06 05:29 PM   #187 
      No, not friends dear  Jim Warren   Nov-28-06 06:22 PM   #189 
         neither does Corporatocracy  omega minimo   Nov-28-06 06:26 PM   #190 
   Who knew Ayn Rand was still writing?  Marnieworld   Nov-29-06 10:27 AM   #192 
   What an amazing litmus test this thread is. I am impressed (nt)  Katzenjammer   Dec-01-06 03:37 PM   #194 
   Well, good. Now we all have our cozy pigeon hole to live in.  Sapere aude   Dec-01-06 03:56 PM   #197 
   I feel for you.  Rosemary2205   Dec-01-06 04:09 PM   #200 
   thats a red herring if I ever saw one  LSK   Dec-01-06 04:37 PM   #201 
   Well, since the OP has never returned to address this flamebait, one can only guess  Mayberry Machiavelli   Dec-02-06 05:58 PM   #206 
   i often pretend to be an avocado...  NuttyFluffers   Dec-02-06 10:28 PM   #208 
   Brilliant!  JVS   Dec-03-06 02:45 AM   #210 
   Been meaning to post in this thread...  TheGoldenRule   Dec-05-06 05:20 PM   #212 
   Please explain how those actions makes someone not a "good dem"  Dora   Dec-05-06 05:27 PM   #213 
   I have a personality test for you.  riskgamble   Dec-08-06 02:17 PM   #214 
 

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