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MGD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-25-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Absolutely.
"With what army"
the one already in place.

"and how many innocents dead?"
If we do as I have suggested, the dead innocents will not be a result of our actions. Furthermore, pulling out will not stop the deaths of innocents in Iraq as their civil war is just getting started.

"It is not worth the attempt as many security analysts have admitted."
And many more believe it is worth the attempt.

"Time to get the fuck out."
Time to dig in and conduct defensive operations around Baghdad while the civil war plays out.

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  -Just How Bad is Iraq? Green Zone Assault Imminent? leftchick  Nov-25-06 06:43 PM   #0 
  - Thanks Bushco  malaise   Nov-25-06 06:48 PM   #1 
  - I think it is inevitable that there will be  spindrifter   Nov-25-06 06:52 PM   #2 
  - It's nothing like Viet Nam,, yeah right  bahrbearian   Nov-25-06 06:52 PM   #3 
  - time to cue the helicopters...  kineneb   Nov-25-06 08:00 PM   #13 
  - Huh. Every so often I run into Righties who insist we're not hearing  Phredicles   Nov-25-06 06:54 PM   #4 
  - About three months ago  truedelphi   Nov-26-06 04:09 PM   #78 
  - A couple days ago I had a reich winger tell me that  alfredo   Nov-26-06 05:35 PM   #84 
  - Some disagree heavily with Cole about this...  Kagemusha   Nov-25-06 07:01 PM   #5 
  - It's the small battles, at this point. Which is not a good place to be. n/t  BleedingHeartPatriot   Nov-25-06 07:23 PM   #7 
  - Could you provide any citations?  acmejack   Nov-25-06 07:29 PM   #9 
  - Gillard's probably the most articulate so  Kagemusha   Nov-25-06 07:34 PM   #11 
     - Thanks for the link.  acmejack   Nov-25-06 09:25 PM   #20 
     - A good point about the trained, unemployed army.  aquart   Nov-26-06 10:33 PM   #90 
  - The Sunni's had the edge in military training, but the Shia are  alfredo   Nov-26-06 05:44 PM   #85 
  - Decline and Fall - America in Retreat  Jcrowley   Nov-25-06 07:21 PM   #6 
  - wow!  leftchick   Nov-25-06 07:25 PM   #8 
  - they blew the shit out of that ammo dump in southern baghdad.  madrchsod   Nov-25-06 07:29 PM   #10 
  - gotta stay the course  SlavesandBulldozers   Nov-25-06 07:54 PM   #12 
  - Actually I believe the incident of most significance is Chaingang  hang a left   Nov-27-06 01:00 AM   #92 
  - Like I have been saying for the past month, pull everything back to Baghdad and dig in  MGD   Nov-25-06 08:09 PM   #14 
  - no we don't  leftchick   Nov-25-06 08:15 PM   #15 
  - This isn't Vietnam. There are similarities but the differences are many.  MGD   Nov-25-06 08:23 PM   #16 
     - "We can secure and defend Baghdad."??  leftchick   Nov-25-06 08:27 PM   #17 
     - Absolutely.  MGD   Nov-25-06 09:34 PM   #23 
        - The civil war is in Baghdad  alcibiades_mystery   Nov-25-06 10:27 PM   #30 
           - The civil war is spread out all over the country  MGD   Nov-25-06 10:45 PM   #36 
              - The civil war is not spread throughout the country  alcibiades_mystery   Nov-25-06 10:54 PM   #38 
                 - Iraqis are fighting and dieing all over Iraq.  MGD   Nov-25-06 11:58 PM   #48 
                 - You fail to make important distinctions  alcibiades_mystery   Nov-26-06 08:46 AM   #63 
                 - Hi, a_m, I've got your map right here, which supports your well  BleedingHeartPatriot   Nov-26-06 08:30 AM   #62 
     - What is the the "strategic value" of Iraq in your view?  scarletwoman   Nov-25-06 08:27 PM   #18 
     - It's obvious  MGD   Nov-25-06 09:27 PM   #21 
     - Al Qaeda is a myth. Certain jihadists have adopted the label because it has a certain cach.  scarletwoman   Nov-25-06 09:56 PM   #25 
     - Al-Queda is not a myth. They have existed for at least 20 years.  MGD   Nov-25-06 10:28 PM   #31 
     - Swallowed the hook, line and sinker here.  Porcupine   Nov-26-06 02:37 AM   #57 
     - al-Q in Iraq is a myth  leftchick   Nov-26-06 06:48 AM   #59 
     - Actually, sadly, since this terrible de-stabilization has taken  truedelphi   Nov-26-06 04:14 PM   #79 
        - Why ATHEIST neocon?  arewenotdemo   Nov-26-06 06:05 PM   #87 
     - Oil wealth can't help a terrorist  jmowreader   Nov-26-06 05:15 PM   #82 
     - I was under the impression that the oil spoils were divied out long  hang a left   Nov-27-06 01:05 AM   #94 
     - It is between Iran and and Saudi Arabia. It might have been  alfredo   Nov-26-06 05:50 PM   #86 
     - We cannot defend it  TomInTib   Nov-25-06 09:29 PM   #22 
     - I guess surrender is your recipe for military success?  MGD   Nov-25-06 09:38 PM   #24 
        - There is NO "military success" to be had in Iraq.  scarletwoman   Nov-25-06 10:00 PM   #26 
        - Forgive me if I don't immediately reverse my position based on your hopeless negativism  MGD   Nov-25-06 10:33 PM   #33 
           - "partisan rhetoric"?!?! What the hell are you talking about?  scarletwoman   Nov-25-06 10:46 PM   #37 
           - "The only question is how many more Americans are going to die to save face for bushco."  MGD   Nov-25-06 11:18 PM   #42 
              - It's not "partisan" to speak out against a corrupt, mendacious administration  scarletwoman   Nov-25-06 11:34 PM   #43 
                 - It is when you do it such that an effective national defense is undermined  MGD   Nov-25-06 11:39 PM   #44 
                    - Iraq was NEVER about our "national defense".  scarletwoman   Nov-25-06 11:50 PM   #46 
                       - There's an enemy and he wishes to fight us. That makes it a matter of national defense  MGD   Nov-26-06 12:17 AM   #50 
                          - Oh bullshit! Complete and utter bullshit! There were NO "enemies" in Iraq!  scarletwoman   Nov-26-06 12:29 AM   #52 
                             - "Were" is the operative word. Now there "are" enemies in Iraq  MGD   Nov-26-06 01:13 AM   #55 
                                - Hunkering down in Baghdad is worst possible strategy of all  HamdenRice   Nov-26-06 06:50 AM   #60 
                                - Thanks, HR, I couldn't believe the suggestion that this horrific catastrophe is somehow salvagable,  BleedingHeartPatriot   Nov-26-06 08:27 AM   #61 
                                - The point of any defensive operations is to recapture the initiative and to shift to the offensive  MGD   Nov-26-06 10:20 AM   #65 
                                   - All strategic goals have failed. Tactical options are nil.  HamdenRice   Nov-26-06 10:48 AM   #66 
                                      - I'm neither agreeing with that or disagreeing with that  MGD   Nov-26-06 11:04 AM   #67 
                                      - That's as jingoistic a pronouncement as I've ever seen on DU.  BleedingHeartPatriot   Nov-26-06 11:22 AM   #68 
                                      - That's the illogic of stalemate  HamdenRice   Nov-26-06 11:34 AM   #69 
                                      - I didn't say we need to stay becuase blood has been shed.  MGD   Nov-26-06 11:59 AM   #70 
                                      - That's a terrible reason to die  HamdenRice   Nov-27-06 07:16 AM   #95 
                                - Once we leave, the foreign fighters will leave as well -- the Iragis will force them out.  scarletwoman   Nov-26-06 04:01 PM   #77 
           - Forgive me if I roll my eyes at this point.  Jazzgirl   Nov-25-06 11:56 PM   #47 
        - You must be fucking joking with this, now  alcibiades_mystery   Nov-25-06 10:31 PM   #32 
        - See my reply directly below.  TomInTib   Nov-25-06 11:03 PM   #39 
        - No, man, I am just a realist  TomInTib   Nov-25-06 10:40 PM   #35 
        - Ho Chi Minh wasn't embroiled in a bitter civil war while fighting the French.  MGD   Nov-25-06 11:15 PM   #40 
           - You are seein/ it all wron/  TomInTib   Nov-25-06 11:44 PM   #45 
           - No "offense" (no pun intended) but you're seeing it wrong  MGD   Nov-26-06 12:11 AM   #49 
              - "hold on until tomorrow"  TomInTib   Nov-26-06 12:31 AM   #53 
                 - "is acceptin/ a loss."  MGD   Nov-26-06 01:08 AM   #54 
                    - cutting and running  TomInTib   Nov-26-06 01:22 AM   #56 
           - Let me throw another wrench into MGD's works...  jmowreader   Nov-26-06 01:50 PM   #75 
              - excellent analysis jmowreader  leftchick   Nov-26-06 04:17 PM   #80 
                 - I was being nice to the young man  jmowreader   Nov-26-06 04:57 PM   #81 
        - It Was Just a Matter of Time for You to Use the "French"  stepnw1f   Nov-26-06 12:48 PM   #74 
     - Defend Baghdad? Why?  rman   Nov-26-06 09:51 AM   #64 
     - Re: Defending Baghdad  MilesColtrane   Nov-26-06 12:11 PM   #71 
     - if we are fighting for "strategic value" why waste resources on Baghdad?  AZDemDist6   Nov-26-06 12:23 PM   #72 
  - Two bits says the lion's share of our military pulls back and hunkers down with the Kurds...  BrotherBuzz   Nov-25-06 10:09 PM   #27 
  - That IS the neocon plan.  tabasco   Nov-26-06 12:42 PM   #73 
  - Do you read Pat Lang also? Really impressive site.  scarletwoman   Nov-25-06 09:01 PM   #19 
  - Bush's dream war was fu*king lame to begin with, wishful oil dreams!!  Imagevision   Nov-25-06 10:15 PM   #28 
  - Frankly  Chomp   Nov-25-06 10:19 PM   #29 
  - The US still has air power. That matters  Kagemusha   Nov-25-06 10:34 PM   #34 
     - The US also has better transportation, armor weapons, training, etc  951-Riverside   Nov-25-06 11:17 PM   #41 
     - Because the guerillas don't present targets like the Republican Guard  Kagemusha   Nov-26-06 12:19 AM   #51 
     - Yeah, that worked great at Khe Sahn. Try again.  Porcupine   Nov-26-06 02:48 AM   #58 
     - I'm saying air power is a spoiler. You can't govern through it.  Kagemusha   Nov-26-06 02:55 PM   #76 
        - You are definitely a scholar of battlefield tactics. It's unfortunate that the  BleedingHeartPatriot   Nov-26-06 06:25 PM   #88 
           - Thanks. But even students of this stuff are learning new things  Kagemusha   Nov-26-06 08:44 PM   #89 
     - "helicopter gunships" Those make nice juicy targets don't they?  oblivious   Nov-27-06 01:04 AM   #93 
  - I have been waiting for a true attack  cwydro   Nov-26-06 05:23 PM   #83 
     - I'm in the Green Zone, and I'm not worried about THAT  GreenZoneLT   Nov-27-06 12:25 AM   #91 
        - kick for GreenZoneLT, welcome to DU!  BleedingHeartPatriot   Nov-27-06 07:16 AM   #96 
        - Welcome to DU. Things like that ammo dump explosion at Camp Falcon must be worrisome though.  oblivious   Nov-27-06 02:28 PM   #97 

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