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Reply #17: marriage fell out of fashion for a while there [View All]

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. marriage fell out of fashion for a while there
and came back with a Big Business vengeance with the White Wedding in the Reagan Greed-Is-Good Era.

"...the pious conservatives who tout its supposed "sanctity" have no understanding of marriage's roots in simple economic expedience in an era even more egregiously male-dominated than our own."

The connection I drew is that this era is still "egregiously male-dominated" and the male/female marriage structure supports that. So if gay rights advocates can sidestep that reality and push through with a "it's so simple" approach, more power to 'em. The OP asks how gay/lesbian rights effect women's rights and vice versa.

"Having said that, the reality of the current situation is that marriage ensures legal protections and rights completely unavailable to the gay and lesbian community. So their demand for those equal rights and protections is completely reasonable, and shouldn't be a topic of debate in a nominally civilized society. How we reach a point where our society is really advanced enough to accept this, I don't know."

It may be necessary in this "nominally civilized society" to fight for gender rights for gays, lesbians and women all together. Or in different steps.

"I don't know about putting issues on a sliding scale. I know I have issues that I personally think are paramount right now, but I doubt if some of those would be as urgent for other people as they are for me. The issues that are ultimately important on a party - read, communal - level should be reached by consensus among us all, and should not be dictated from the top down by the likes of Bob Shrum and MaryBeth Cahill."

My list was "no particular order" and IMHO. It would seem we have an automatic communal level where it concerns fundamental structures of our government like the Constitution, the Congress, elections and media. All else flows from there.

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  -There are more important issues than gay marriage omega minimo  Oct-28-06 09:09 PM   #0 
  - I agree, there's always the amendment needed to stop burning the ...flag??  Imagevision   Oct-28-06 09:11 PM   #1 
  - Sorry, nonsense.  Bluebear   Oct-28-06 09:11 PM   #2 
  - Maybe you need some time to think about it  omega minimo   Oct-28-06 09:21 PM   #3 
  - Skipping what 'step'? Could you elucidate?  Bluebear   Oct-28-06 09:23 PM   #4 
     - Dear Bluebear, you just skipped that step by pronouncing it "Nonsense"!  omega minimo   Oct-28-06 09:32 PM   #5 
        - OK sorry, ignore. This reasoning must be too sophisticated for me.  Bluebear   Oct-28-06 09:35 PM   #6 
        - Gay marriage threatens the male dominant power structure  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 12:11 PM   #39 
           - Marriage is about male dominance?  spoony   Oct-29-06 04:13 PM   #82 
        - If someone's asking you  benevolent dictator   Oct-29-06 07:29 AM   #31 
           - I pointed out the "step" so he wouldn't trip! He didn't even see it!  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 11:53 AM   #35 
              - I saw the "step", it didn't make any sense to me. Still doesn't.  Bluebear   Oct-29-06 12:29 PM   #45 
                 - You should just keep re-reading that step until it makes sense. Duh.  haruka3_2000   Oct-29-06 12:53 PM   #48 
                 - Did you read #39?  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 12:56 PM   #49 
  - Glad To See I'm Not The Only One Lost On These Concepts.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Oct-28-06 09:51 PM   #9 
  - I can't help but think the whole notion of marriage in general is absurd  JeffR   Oct-28-06 09:40 PM   #7 
  - marriage fell out of fashion for a while there  omega minimo   Oct-28-06 10:22 PM   #17 
     - Your linkage of gay, lesbian and women's rights is the way to fight it all  JeffR   Oct-29-06 01:11 AM   #25 
  - You forgot the most important issue of the times that superceeds all;  upi402   Oct-28-06 09:42 PM   #8 
  - Quick -- legalize it and GET IT OVER WITH! Lots of time then to focus on other things!  eppur_se_muova   Oct-28-06 10:03 PM   #10 
  - THAT was Clinton's reasoning  Karenina   Oct-28-06 10:19 PM   #15 
     - Thanks for that reminder, of another sad might-have-been. nt  eppur_se_muova   Oct-29-06 03:03 PM   #71 
  - Some people just beg to be ignored.  mondo joe   Oct-28-06 10:05 PM   #11 
  - So true, my friend. So true. n/t  Jamastiene   Oct-31-06 05:55 PM   #98 
  - Don't forget the ailing Supreme Court Justice  Zen   Oct-28-06 10:13 PM   #12 
  - This may be the biggest issue we are facing with a Repuke Senate  Mr_Spock   Oct-28-06 10:27 PM   #19 
  - More important than being allowed to visit your partner in the hospital?  LeftCoast   Oct-28-06 10:14 PM   #13 
  - I understand. I said so.  omega minimo   Oct-28-06 10:43 PM   #20 
     - No, you don't understand  LostinVA   Oct-29-06 07:14 AM   #28 
     - Exactly. nt  haruka3_2000   Oct-29-06 07:26 AM   #30 
     - The OP is long. Lemme break it down for those who didn't read or  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 11:43 AM   #34 
        - I'm not a lesbian and this issue is top of my list  Book Lover   Oct-31-06 05:41 PM   #95 
           - It is a call for common ground  omega minimo   Oct-31-06 06:47 PM   #100 
     - It's so easy to dismiss threats  benevolent dictator   Oct-29-06 07:37 AM   #32 
  - There may be more important issues, but this one is pretty easy to fix  breakaleg   Oct-28-06 10:15 PM   #14 
  - Hetero rights of association are also impacted by the attack on LGBTs  IndianaGreen   Oct-28-06 10:20 PM   #16 
  - Let's get the wedge out  omega minimo   Oct-28-06 10:57 PM   #21 
  - !  Bluebear   Oct-29-06 05:03 AM   #26 
  - Are there more important issues than... abortion?  mondo joe   Oct-28-06 10:26 PM   #18 
  - And even Frankenstein was allowed to get married!  impeachdubya   Oct-28-06 11:00 PM   #22 
  - "Aaaaaaahhhhrrrrr rrrraaaahhhhr rrrrrrrggggggggggaarr"  omega minimo   Oct-28-06 11:46 PM   #23 
  - And don't forget Richard Ramirez!  Sapphocrat   Oct-29-06 12:07 PM   #38 
  - Those are even better examples than what I usually use.  donco6   Oct-29-06 12:27 PM   #44 
  - frankenstein was unmarried  dsc   Oct-29-06 03:36 PM   #77 
     - Gee-zus. You and your pesky "facts".  impeachdubya   Oct-29-06 04:10 PM   #81 
  - I guess the voters think the economy is the more important?  savemefromdumbya   Oct-28-06 11:49 PM   #24 
  - Tell you what, let's replace "gay" with "women," and then we'll see  LostinVA   Oct-29-06 07:13 AM   #27 
  - Shocking  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 01:32 PM   #53 
  - War, national health care, education, poverty,energy, immigration, many more. nt  FreeStateDemocrat   Oct-29-06 07:25 AM   #29 
  - Are there issues more important than my right  Jed Dilligan   Oct-29-06 08:04 AM   #33 
  - Politically?  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 12:50 PM   #47 
     - I think we could bring a lot of people to the polls  Jed Dilligan   Oct-29-06 01:34 PM   #54 
        - Interesting. Are you saying you think some people may NOT vote  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 01:43 PM   #56 
           - Well, I can relate my own experience  Jed Dilligan   Oct-29-06 01:51 PM   #61 
  - Some of the biggest supporters I've seen  Lars39   Oct-29-06 12:05 PM   #36 
  - Number 1 Issue: Poverty and the Economy  Hidden Stillness   Oct-29-06 12:06 PM   #37 
  - Thanks.  Sapphocrat   Oct-29-06 12:12 PM   #40 
  - Try Being Poor  Hidden Stillness   Oct-29-06 12:13 PM   #41 
     - A person can be gay *and* poor.  Lars39   Oct-29-06 12:24 PM   #43 
     - I _am_ poor.  Sapphocrat   Oct-29-06 02:45 PM   #70 
     - I'm poor AND gay. I think marriage equality is an important  Jamastiene   Oct-31-06 05:32 PM   #94 
  - Thank you HS, although I wouldn't call it trivial..................  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 12:34 PM   #46 
  - Equal civil rights is now an INCREDIBLY TRIVIAL issue?  mondo joe   Oct-29-06 03:30 PM   #75 
  - "I also consider "gay marriage" to be an incredibly trivial issue"  Bluebear   Oct-29-06 03:34 PM   #76 
  - I don't think there is one "more important" issue  Annces   Oct-29-06 12:22 PM   #42 
  - We're talking people's civil rights.  GreenJ   Oct-29-06 01:05 PM   #50 
  - Enuff to work on how women's rights affect gay rights & vice versa?  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 01:24 PM   #52 
  - I'm a straight guy  enigmatic   Oct-29-06 01:07 PM   #51 
  - yessah, Ah'll jus git back to tha back of da bus  WindRavenX   Oct-29-06 01:35 PM   #55 
  - Nope, sorry, you have to get off the bus.  beam me up scottie   Oct-29-06 01:43 PM   #57 
  - oh masah, you so kind!!!!!  WindRavenX   Oct-29-06 01:45 PM   #58 
  - I've been wondering what some have been drinking.  Jamastiene   Oct-31-06 05:53 PM   #97 
  - Hi Beam  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 01:59 PM   #62 
  - How would I know?  beam me up scottie   Oct-29-06 02:01 PM   #63 
     - snap  WindRavenX   Oct-29-06 02:08 PM   #66 
  - Actually, we all have to PUSH the bus.  donco6   Oct-29-06 08:21 PM   #86 
  - The American Dream is being disassembled while gay/lesbians want the right  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 01:47 PM   #59 
     - bullshit  WindRavenX   Oct-29-06 01:51 PM   #60 
     - WindRaven, I know I've pointed out in the past, but I haven't done it today.  haruka3_2000   Oct-29-06 02:03 PM   #64 
     - right back atcha  WindRavenX   Oct-29-06 02:08 PM   #65 
     - nonsense  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 02:26 PM   #68 
        - You ARE either FOR equality or you aren't-- there isn't an half-ass effort to it  WindRavenX   Oct-29-06 02:32 PM   #69 
           - You are pissed off because you misunderstand what I said  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 03:17 PM   #73 
              - I think you tried to write an artsy fartsy essay that backfired, frankly.  Bluebear   Oct-29-06 03:26 PM   #74 
                 - I love you.  libnnc   Oct-29-06 03:36 PM   #78 
                 - And I love you back.  Bluebear   Oct-29-06 03:38 PM   #79 
                 - Could be. On the other hand  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 08:09 PM   #83 
                    - Screed in this instance means long essay, nothing more. I'm literate too.  Bluebear   Oct-29-06 08:19 PM   #85 
     - Time for you to read Skinner's post on the subject.  madfloridian   Oct-29-06 08:55 PM   #89 
     - Good Post  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 09:31 PM   #92 
        - This.  madfloridian   Oct-29-06 09:43 PM   #93 
     - Oh, cry me a damn river.  Jamastiene   Oct-31-06 05:45 PM   #96 
        - The tears are fo all who suffer the consequences, including  omega minimo   Oct-31-06 06:09 PM   #99 
  - United we stand or divided we fall  GloriaSmith   Oct-29-06 02:24 PM   #67 
  - This is not a call to sideline any battle for equality.  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 03:04 PM   #72 
  - "Wedge issues" are just that. Pieces of a bigger picture.  pinto   Oct-29-06 04:07 PM   #80 
  - Thanks pinto. Wise words.  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 08:16 PM   #84 
  - Ok, well what if we win big...  madfloridian   Oct-29-06 08:29 PM   #87 
  - What's most appalling?  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 08:53 PM   #88 
     - What you are doing is appalling.  madfloridian   Oct-29-06 08:56 PM   #90 
        - I am not doing whatever it is you think I am doing  omega minimo   Oct-29-06 09:01 PM   #91 
  - Yep  BuffyTheFundieSlayer   Nov-02-06 01:49 AM   #101 

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