ecstatic
(1000+ posts)
|
Thu Oct-26-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
| 13. This is why I'm uncomfortable with pairing the two struggles |
 |
And I only bring this up because so many posts today are substituting the word "black" for "gay" to get a reaction.
First off, in this country, a nonwhite person will be quickly prejudged based on the color of his/her skin (most of the time).
Nonwhites do not have the option of simply not revealing their race--it is immediately noticeable (in most cases). Therefore, racial minorities face a different set of challenges in every aspect of American life--from equal education, to securing home loans, to getting employment, equal pay, etc.
On the other hand, a gay person has the option of whether or not to reveal his or her sexual orientation (in most cases). I haven't heard of any cases where gays are automatically cheated by lenders and what not. Or automatically charged a higher price when purchasing a vehicle. This is why a lot of African Americans take offense when some gays and/or Jewish people (who in many cases might look just as caucasian as a non-Jewish person) claim to face the same discrimination. One of the biggest issues faced by gay americans is the right to marry. Well I'm sorry, it's just not the same.
|
Is gay discrimination 100% comparable to discrimination against blacks? |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-26-06 06:34 PM |
#0 |

The fact that you are posing this question |
keepCAblue |
Oct-26-06 06:38 PM |
#1 |
 
Posing question because of all the posts up today |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-26-06 06:40 PM |
#2 |
 
sorrier |
Ellis Wyatt |
Oct-26-06 06:41 PM |
#4 |
 
Not necessarily. It could be the reverse. Or the OP could be curious |
MJDuncan1982 |
Oct-26-06 06:42 PM |
#5 |
 
hear hear |
HuffleClaw |
Oct-27-06 04:20 PM |
#97 |

Ditto |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:34 PM |
#120 |

Not to nitpick but they are not 100% comparable. If they were, they wouldn't |
MJDuncan1982 |
Oct-26-06 06:41 PM |
#3 |

Back in the day, and I remember the day, blacks had almost |
WCGreen |
Oct-26-06 06:45 PM |
#6 |
 
well, there is a bit of difference |
zreosumgame |
Oct-26-06 07:09 PM |
#20 |

Well, when they start attacking Gay Pride parades with |
WCGreen |
Oct-26-06 07:25 PM |
#22 |
 
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Oct-26-06 07:38 PM |
#27 |
  
Perhaps you should read this: |
Sapphire Blue |
Oct-26-06 07:57 PM |
#32 |
 
Yes, history is hard |
zreosumgame |
Oct-27-06 11:17 AM |
#67 |
 
You want to do a one on one comparison? |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 09:13 PM |
#50 |
  
Great analogy. The abuses are different, but the motivation really isn't. |
blondeatlast |
Oct-26-06 09:21 PM |
#53 |
  
Thank you for posting this. |
skypilot |
Oct-27-06 11:45 AM |
#71 |
  
Bravo. nt |
Bluebear |
Oct-27-06 04:38 PM |
#101 |
 
Until Stonewall-- and after-- cops regularly rounded up gays |
readmoreoften |
Oct-27-06 07:26 PM |
#168 |

Not quite all, but certainly the vast majority. |
igil |
Oct-27-06 02:17 PM |
#78 |

MR. CHIEF JUSTICE WARREN delivered the opinion of the Court. |
madmusic |
Oct-26-06 06:46 PM |
#7 |

Of course they are not the same issue. But not all gays are white. |
readmoreoften |
Oct-26-06 06:47 PM |
#8 |

I know several black people who get extremely upset when the |
whutgives |
Oct-26-06 06:47 PM |
#9 |
 
This is why I'm uncomfortable with pairing the two struggles |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-26-06 06:57 PM |
#13 |
  
You've made some excellent points which gave me a |
whutgives |
Oct-26-06 07:34 PM |
#24 |
   
Wow, why are you buying into total ignorance about GLBT people. |
readmoreoften |
Oct-27-06 07:19 PM |
#161 |
  
How ridiculous. |
keepCAblue |
Oct-26-06 08:34 PM |
#33 |
  
Ugh -- sickening comment |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:37 PM |
#123 |
  
Tell Matthew Shepherd one of his biggest issues was the right to marry. |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-27-06 06:02 PM |
#138 |
  
Yes, and no one knows you're gay until you announce it to the world. |
readmoreoften |
Oct-27-06 06:33 PM |
#152 |
 
Wow. Very good post. And a very good question you posed. |
Beausoir |
Oct-26-06 08:53 PM |
#44 |
 
I'm Jewish and I get tired of Jews thinking |
ikojo |
Oct-26-06 09:04 PM |
#46 |

Well, I'm not Jewish |
cali |
Oct-27-06 12:02 PM |
#73 |

damn, stating that "some" jews hold this view is hardly painting |
jonnyblitz |
Oct-27-06 07:22 PM |
#165 |

Thanks Jonnyblitz...I know of where I speak |
ikojo |
Oct-27-06 07:59 PM |
#175 |

Civil Rights for minorities were a tough cut of meat for many before |
blondeatlast |
Oct-26-06 06:49 PM |
#10 |

Human rights are human rights. You either support them or you don't. |
Solly Mack |
Oct-26-06 06:52 PM |
#11 |

Other. |
William769 |
Oct-26-06 06:54 PM |
#12 |

They differ in the details and certain aspects, but civil rights are civil rights. |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 06:58 PM |
#14 |
 
Exactly. Martin knew that all denial of rights are the same denial |
Katzenjammer |
Oct-27-06 03:08 PM |
#84 |

Blacks that I know resent the intrusion of gays |
trof |
Oct-26-06 06:58 PM |
#15 |
 
It's true. I see that too. It's sad to see. |
Lex |
Oct-26-06 07:03 PM |
#18 |
  
It's a false religious thing. |
trof |
Oct-26-06 07:20 PM |
#21 |
  
Actually, religion has been used.. |
VeggieTart |
Oct-27-06 12:06 AM |
#65 |
 
Monogamous gays only, the rest of us get to stay in the closet |
Lilith Velkor |
Oct-26-06 07:45 PM |
#30 |
 
I hope they won't expect those gays to support affirmative action. |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 08:46 PM |
#40 |
  
off topic, but affirmative action has benefitted white women the most nt |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-26-06 09:23 PM |
#56 |
 
No flame here. I know it's true. |
donco6 |
Oct-27-06 05:19 PM |
#111 |

You know its true? How? nt |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 05:49 PM |
#134 |

I think I read it on CWA's website. |
donco6 |
Oct-27-06 06:06 PM |
#140 |

Only when you can "hide" being black are they comparable. (n/t) |
MazeRat7 |
Oct-26-06 06:59 PM |
#16 |
 
The emotional pain of hiding your sexuality is enormous. |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-26-06 07:34 PM |
#25 |
 
Are you suggesting the hiding is better? It's not. |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 08:38 PM |
#35 |
 
Appalling statement |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:40 PM |
#127 |

What if they're black and gay? Or half-black and bisexual? - n/t |
porphyrian |
Oct-26-06 06:59 PM |
#17 |

why not ask harold ford JR what he thinks? nt |
msongs |
Oct-26-06 07:08 PM |
#19 |

I vote PRESENT, even though I have some good points to make |
ProgressiveEconomist |
Oct-26-06 07:33 PM |
#23 |

It doesn't matter! 'Liberty & Justice for all' is what counts. |
Democrats_win |
Oct-26-06 07:34 PM |
#26 |

According to CORETTA SCOTT KING, it is COMPARABLE. |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-26-06 07:40 PM |
#28 |

Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Oct-26-06 07:42 PM |
#29 |

The big difference is |
Jed Dilligan |
Oct-26-06 07:47 PM |
#31 |
 
Another diff: no black person ever had to hide their race from their parents. |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 08:37 PM |
#34 |
  
No black person has ever been disowned & homeless from their parents |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-26-06 08:39 PM |
#37 |
   
No, but many blacks were disowned at birth by their white slave owner fathers |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-26-06 09:42 PM |
#59 |
  
Please read my post about Loretta Scott King's opinion on this. |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-26-06 09:55 PM |
#60 |
  
And that bears comparison to people living right now in exactly what |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 11:44 PM |
#62 |
  
Precisely my point. |
Jed Dilligan |
Oct-26-06 08:47 PM |
#41 |
 
A really bad generalization. |
keepCAblue |
Oct-26-06 08:45 PM |
#39 |

All it means is |
Jed Dilligan |
Oct-26-06 08:50 PM |
#42 |

Ability to pass or hide minority status is a very important factor! |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-26-06 08:56 PM |
#45 |

Um, if there WAS a closeted gay president in US history... |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 09:06 PM |
#47 |
 
no, but the point is, the person had that chance |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-26-06 09:19 PM |
#52 |

Had the chance to live a life in hiding and isolation? |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 09:23 PM |
#55 |
 
closeted gay president vs. overrepresentation in prisons? nt |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-26-06 09:30 PM |
#58 |

Overrepresentation in prisons or in teen suicide? |
mondo joe |
Oct-26-06 11:43 PM |
#61 |

What gives you the right to tell us what our struggles are? |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:43 PM |
#128 |

Well I know one thing your struggle is not- |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 05:51 PM |
#135 |

And a huge proportion of kids on the street are gay. |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-27-06 06:08 PM |
#142 |

Stop pretending racism is worse than homophobia. |
mondo joe |
Oct-27-06 07:00 PM |
#157 |

How deluded. |
keepCAblue |
Oct-26-06 09:08 PM |
#48 |

I feel sick... |
stillcool47 |
Oct-26-06 08:39 PM |
#36 |
 
My thoughts exactly... |
jesus_of_suburbia |
Oct-26-06 08:52 PM |
#43 |
 
Beats me. |
donco6 |
Oct-26-06 11:47 PM |
#63 |
  
I know... I agree.... |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:47 PM |
#132 |
 
I literally am sickened by this |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:46 PM |
#131 |

They are not the same but they are both equally valid concerns |
gollygee |
Oct-26-06 08:42 PM |
#38 |

THEY ARE NOT COMPARABLE |
stella |
Oct-26-06 09:12 PM |
#49 |
 
Why the hell not? |
GreenJ |
Oct-26-06 09:29 PM |
#57 |

Because unless you say you are gay |
stella |
Oct-27-06 11:24 AM |
#68 |

so being gay is a choice? and if we'd just sit down and act |
MadAsHellNewYorker |
Oct-27-06 11:30 AM |
#70 |
 
OF COURSE NOT |
stella |
Oct-27-06 02:46 PM |
#79 |

Thanks for your sensitivity and support. nt |
Bluebear |
Oct-27-06 03:48 PM |
#93 |

Please stop yelling in all caps. It is not necessary. |
Kerrytravelers |
Oct-27-06 04:25 PM |
#98 |

One or 2 issues? |
mondo joe |
Oct-27-06 04:55 PM |
#106 |

I call total bull on that. |
Kerrytravelers |
Oct-27-06 04:26 PM |
#99 |

that is a damned lie |
mitchtv |
Oct-27-06 04:42 PM |
#102 |

Oh honey! |
donco6 |
Oct-27-06 05:21 PM |
#113 |

Fuck that -- do NOT tell ME what my struggles are |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:48 PM |
#133 |

Deleted message |
Name removed |
Oct-27-06 06:13 PM |
#146 |

People have been beaten & killed for being PERCEIVEED as gay. |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-27-06 07:44 PM |
#172 |

This is how I see it.... |
ikojo |
Oct-26-06 09:13 PM |
#51 |
 
The fact that the person... |
skypilot |
Oct-27-06 11:57 AM |
#72 |

Yes, they are both based in selfishness. |
flvegan |
Oct-26-06 09:21 PM |
#54 |

HELL YES IT IS THE SAME THING |
helderheid |
Oct-26-06 11:53 PM |
#64 |

civil rights, but the hair is afire right now... |
upi402 |
Oct-27-06 12:09 AM |
#66 |

Blacks were not allowed to Marry at one time either. |
MadAsHellNewYorker |
Oct-27-06 11:27 AM |
#69 |

Gay is the new black, to the bigots... |
Hobarticus |
Oct-27-06 12:07 PM |
#74 |

Civil right are civil rights |
Trekologer |
Oct-27-06 12:17 PM |
#75 |

There are some parallels, but also some big differences |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Oct-27-06 12:19 PM |
#76 |
 
"Sinful" vs. "Inferior" - I'm so glad you brought up that point |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 03:29 PM |
#90 |

Why is there a need to even make this comparison? |
BoneDaddy |
Oct-27-06 02:07 PM |
#77 |
 
This kind of thing always becomes a pissing match |
Tyo |
Oct-27-06 03:10 PM |
#85 |

Woah, hehe |
BoneDaddy |
Oct-27-06 05:00 PM |
#108 |

Not just a toaster, but a toaster oven! |
donco6 |
Oct-27-06 05:23 PM |
#114 |

Two completely different struggles and I think both groups would |
breakaleg |
Oct-27-06 02:48 PM |
#80 |
 
"...I think both groups would be offended..." |
skypilot |
Oct-27-06 03:03 PM |
#83 |

NICE DEMOCRAT WEDGE ISSUE, and just in time for elections. |
The Stranger |
Oct-27-06 02:49 PM |
#81 |
 
You noticed that huh? |
Mr_Spock |
Oct-27-06 02:51 PM |
#82 |
  
Surprise surprise. Imagine that. Just a short time before |
Kerrytravelers |
Oct-27-06 04:45 PM |
#103 |
 
it doesn't have to be a wedge, it can bring enlightenment to all sides |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 03:35 PM |
#92 |

You think you can enlighten ALL sides with this? Not the right wing. |
Bluebear |
Oct-27-06 03:50 PM |
#94 |

And, to be honest, I get offended by people who assume that |
readmoreoften |
Oct-27-06 06:38 PM |
#155 |

There's a great article about this |
tishaLA |
Oct-27-06 03:10 PM |
#86 |
 
I will check that out. Thanks! nt |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 03:31 PM |
#91 |

Consider in most cases you can't hide Blackness. |
xultar |
Oct-27-06 03:13 PM |
#87 |
 
But if you could hide it... |
skypilot |
Oct-27-06 03:19 PM |
#88 |

True. No rguements here. It's just that people tend to hate me |
xultar |
Oct-27-06 03:22 PM |
#89 |

Yes. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Oct-27-06 03:54 PM |
#95 |

Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Oct-27-06 03:55 PM |
#96 |

Gee I wonder why you started this poll |
cboy4 |
Oct-27-06 04:29 PM |
#100 |
 
I appreciate your post |
mitchtv |
Oct-27-06 05:04 PM |
#109 |
 
why did you use the black analogy? |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 05:21 PM |
#112 |
  
There is no other purpose for this thread, except to divide. |
cboy4 |
Oct-27-06 05:30 PM |
#117 |
 
Ha! I agree. eom |
donco6 |
Oct-27-06 05:29 PM |
#116 |

When the first spark of an idea lit up your brain to create this |
Kerrytravelers |
Oct-27-06 04:46 PM |
#104 |
 
This question can only lead to disharmony and strife. |
donco6 |
Oct-27-06 05:15 PM |
#110 |

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. And all the other |
Kerrytravelers |
Oct-27-06 05:25 PM |
#115 |

The ways of discriminating are different, nothing else. |
DireStrike |
Oct-27-06 04:49 PM |
#105 |
 
DS, that's great! |
Bluebear |
Oct-27-06 04:56 PM |
#107 |
 
BINGO...This is the correct answer! |
Stuckinthebush |
Oct-27-06 05:36 PM |
#122 |

yes. |
buddhamama |
Oct-27-06 05:32 PM |
#118 |

This is a pretty flamey OP -- VERY divisive, imo |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:33 PM |
#119 |
 
Agreed. I hope this gets locked. |
Harvey Korman |
Oct-27-06 05:35 PM |
#121 |
  
She quoted the "Concerned Women of America" on another |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 06:09 PM |
#144 |
 
Honestly, I'm amazed a few people here haven't just started quoting |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-27-06 06:20 PM |
#149 |
 
Or Rush or Phelps -- ugh |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 06:26 PM |
#151 |
 
Yes, but very enlightening |
Stuckinthebush |
Oct-27-06 05:38 PM |
#124 |
  
why is it shocking that not everyone thinks homophobia is equal to racism? |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 05:39 PM |
#125 |
   
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Oct-27-06 05:43 PM |
#129 |
  
Tell me about it -- kinda sickening, huh? |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 06:09 PM |
#143 |
 
Using civil rights to divide people |
GreenJ |
Oct-27-06 05:39 PM |
#126 |

Words out of my mouth |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 06:08 PM |
#141 |

AS I read this thread, the divisive tactic of the OP was successful |
LostinVA |
Oct-27-06 05:45 PM |
#130 |
 
good riddance. you hurt your cause with your wild, unfounded accusations nt |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 05:58 PM |
#136 |

Uh-uh. Sure... Oh and I have a question for you? |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-27-06 06:37 PM |
#154 |

One of my best friends is a black lesbian |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 07:16 PM |
#160 |

My point is gay rights affect people of every race. I'm on topic btw. |
haruka3_2000 |
Oct-27-06 07:22 PM |
#164 |

Are gays and African Americans both human beings? Yes. |
impeachdubya |
Oct-27-06 06:01 PM |
#137 |

"Divide and conquer" is a favorite strategy. Read "Mind of the South" |
McCamy Taylor |
Oct-27-06 06:05 PM |
#139 |

ANYONE who doesn't agree with me is RACIST |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 06:12 PM |
#145 |
 
C'ya. |
donco6 |
Oct-27-06 06:23 PM |
#150 |
 
Disagreeing wouldn't make anyone homophobic. Homophobia |
mondo joe |
Oct-27-06 06:58 PM |
#156 |

I believe Discriminations against gays is a civil rights issue |
Geek_Girl |
Oct-27-06 06:14 PM |
#147 |

Other: While they are both similar in bieng needed civil rights movements, |
Random_Australian |
Oct-27-06 06:16 PM |
#148 |

200 posts and not a single rec? That says something. eom |
donco6 |
Oct-27-06 06:34 PM |
#153 |
 
honestly, I wish this thread would sink like a pile of bricks |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 07:19 PM |
#162 |

So are women's rights inferior to African-American civil rights? |
readmoreoften |
Oct-27-06 07:21 PM |
#163 |
 
not less important, just different. two separate issues |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 07:23 PM |
#166 |

Right, they're not equal Racism is only 72.2% as bad as homophobia. |
mondo joe |
Oct-27-06 07:23 PM |
#167 |

and nowhere did I say the gay rights struggle was lesser, just that its different |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 07:26 PM |
#169 |

You actually did gay americans face 10% or less of the issues |
mondo joe |
Oct-27-06 07:31 PM |
#170 |

Yes, meaning of the 100% of issues that gay americans face |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Oct-27-06 07:39 PM |
#171 |

So you mean blacks only experience 10% of what gays do? |
mondo joe |
Oct-27-06 07:45 PM |
#173 |

shouldn't be discussed together unless |
themartyred |
Oct-27-06 07:03 PM |
#158 |

How many gays have gay parents and gay grandparetns and ... |
TahitiNut |
Oct-27-06 07:11 PM |
#159 |

People are born black.. |
sendero |
Oct-27-06 07:47 PM |
#174 |

I'm going to lock this. |
wakemeupwhenitsover |
Oct-27-06 08:39 PM |
#176 |