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Reply #46: "it's not just liberals he's arguing against" [View All]

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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #28
46. "it's not just liberals he's arguing against"
Liberals are definitely not the main target in the piece, and aren't even what he's arguing against. He's not arguing against liberalism in the least, he's trying to administer a shot in the arm, a wake up call against the liberal tendency for cultural relativism which can paradoxically lead some to blind acceptance of a different culture and faith though that other culture or faith is diametrically opposed to liberalism.

Having spent a lot of time in the September 11 Forum here, I think I may know some of the head-in-the-sand liberals Harris is talking about. They don't know the first thing about fundamentalist theology and even go so far as to deny that terrorism does not exist. They believe most every high profile terrorist act on record was actually a false-flag government operation. On one hand, they think believing our government masterminded 9/11 is the sign of being a "true" liberal, and on the other they believe "a ragtag bunch of Arabs in a cave" aren't smart enough to have pulled off 9/11 - a pov with very racist undertones, conscious or not.

I think the most important point is that Harris isn't arguing against liberalism.
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  -Head-in-the-Sand Liberals by Sam Harris Hamlette  Sep-18-06 12:44 PM   #0 
  - is there more to this? . . . got a link? . . . n/t  OneBlueSky   Sep-18-06 12:47 PM   #1 
  - Ack, sorry, here's the link  Hamlette   Sep-18-06 01:01 PM   #2 
  - Thanks.  greyl   Sep-18-06 01:06 PM   #3 
  - He always does. n/t  Finder   Sep-18-06 01:13 PM   #5 
  - He's making huge broadbrush smears against 'liberals'  muriel_volestrangler   Sep-18-06 01:50 PM   #10 
  - He is a liberal.  greyl   Sep-19-06 01:14 AM   #15 
     - those are not very good points, IMO  hfojvt   Sep-19-06 01:56 AM   #18 
     - LIHOP is like Creationism  Donald Ian Rankin   Sep-19-06 06:58 AM   #38 
     - As pointed out above, it's countries that build nuclear bombs  muriel_volestrangler   Sep-19-06 04:00 AM   #28 
        - Why I'd like to strangle that guy....  BeFree   Sep-19-06 07:57 AM   #40 
        - "it's not just liberals he's arguing against"  greyl   Sep-19-06 10:08 AM   #46 
  - I agree! nt  Duppers   Sep-19-06 02:46 AM   #21 
  - Since when are liberals denying the threat and where?  mmonk   Sep-18-06 01:06 PM   #4 
  - because we are against all those things, the right has defined us  Hamlette   Sep-18-06 02:02 PM   #11 
  - So that would mean that his liberal stereotype is right after all  muriel_volestrangler   Sep-18-06 02:18 PM   #12 
  - I'm sorry. I was not clear. Not all Muslims are fundamentalist.  Hamlette   Sep-18-06 03:47 PM   #13 
  - well said, Hamlette  Duppers   Sep-19-06 03:12 AM   #25 
  - uh?  Duppers   Sep-19-06 03:55 AM   #27 
     - Harris does, elsewhere, advocate torture  muriel_volestrangler   Sep-19-06 04:02 AM   #29 
     - oh jesus! my apologies! I stand corrected on that fact.  Duppers   Sep-19-06 04:27 AM   #33 
     - That's a bit misleading, muriel.  greyl   Sep-19-06 10:17 AM   #47 
        - I think he does support the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed  muriel_volestrangler   Sep-19-06 11:17 AM   #48 
           - That's likely, I suppose.  greyl   Sep-19-06 01:23 PM   #57 
     - Great post!  sufrommich   Sep-20-06 04:08 PM   #85 
  - One cheer for Sam Harris.  Jim Sagle   Sep-18-06 01:14 PM   #6 
  - Hear, hear, Sagle!  Duppers   Sep-19-06 03:22 AM   #26 
  - I also will support movements of national and global secularism.  DemExpat   Sep-19-06 04:15 AM   #30 
  - Islamic progressives are the biggest casualties in Bush's war.  Tierra_y_Libertad   Sep-18-06 01:16 PM   #7 
  - All religion is dangerous as it enables lunatics to manipulate  TheFriedPiper   Sep-18-06 01:17 PM   #8 
  - Agree. n/t  Finder   Sep-19-06 09:39 AM   #43 
  - When you isolate, belittle, oppress, ridicule and occupy  warrens   Sep-18-06 01:20 PM   #9 
  - BB (Before Bush), these radicals were a very small minority  NewJeffCT   Sep-18-06 03:56 PM   #14 
  - ?  ulysses   Sep-19-06 01:16 AM   #16 
  - A hatred of rational thought, eh?  tom_paine   Sep-19-06 01:27 AM   #17 
  - I totally agree with you.  Raksha   Sep-19-06 03:00 AM   #23 
  - Attacking and destroying other countries boosts fundamentalism  eridani   Sep-19-06 01:59 AM   #19 
  - BS  JCMach1   Sep-19-06 02:37 AM   #20 
  - dogma  Duppers   Sep-19-06 04:25 AM   #32 
     - Politics and religion are entwined, yes  JCMach1   Sep-19-06 06:36 AM   #37 
     - "the reactions you see in the ME are almost solely political"?  greyl   Sep-19-06 02:12 PM   #62 
     - one word  Duppers   Sep-19-06 02:36 PM   #65 
        - Nice point, but I'm not convinced of a political solution.  greyl   Sep-20-06 08:53 AM   #81 
           - dear  Duppers   Sep-20-06 03:49 PM   #84 
     - That's a good point.  tenshi816   Sep-19-06 07:10 AM   #39 
  - WHO is "Sam Harris," pray tell?  Hardrada   Sep-19-06 02:53 AM   #22 
  - He wrote a book called "The End of Faith"  bezdomny   Sep-19-06 04:43 AM   #34 
  - I'll bet that by mid-week, right-wing blogs will gleefully link to Harris.  KrazyKat   Sep-19-06 03:11 AM   #24 
  - I don't see it...  bezdomny   Sep-19-06 04:55 AM   #35 
  - Not even close. n/t  Finder   Sep-19-06 09:42 AM   #44 
  - Really? See post 54 below: Limbaugh gleefully read passages, etc. n/ t  KrazyKat   Sep-19-06 01:10 PM   #55 
     - Limbaugh is a right-wing hog, not a blog.  greyl   Sep-19-06 02:14 PM   #63 
        - Let's take a look  muriel_volestrangler   Sep-19-06 02:51 PM   #66 
           - THANK YOU!!! Sometimes it's like pushing a rock uphill...  KrazyKat   Sep-19-06 03:15 PM   #67 
              - Did you actually click on those links? nt  greyl   Sep-19-06 04:12 PM   #70 
                 - Uh... I did.. what's your point?  Exiled in America   Sep-19-06 05:00 PM   #74 
                    - I didn't ask you, but...  greyl   Sep-19-06 06:49 PM   #75 
                       - they all worked for me .... ? ?  Exiled in America   Sep-21-06 04:46 PM   #86 
                       - He seems to have changed the archive URL of the middle one  muriel_volestrangler   Sep-21-06 06:39 PM   #87 
  - Talk about a black-and-white perspective  NoMoreMyths   Sep-19-06 09:43 AM   #45 
     - This gambit could be taken back to the Big Bang...  KrazyKat   Sep-19-06 12:53 PM   #53 
        - No it can't.  greyl   Sep-19-06 02:08 PM   #61 
  - Forgive me if I don't worry incessantly about what bin Laden's up to.  magellan   Sep-19-06 04:21 AM   #31 
  - Apparently this guy believes that "liberals" are people who  Leopolds Ghost   Sep-19-06 05:32 AM   #36 
  - I hate to say this  Thankfully_in_Britain   Sep-19-06 12:42 PM   #50 
  - Sadly, I agree.  Odin2005   Sep-19-06 02:34 PM   #64 
     - Yet, when I go out in the real world and discuss politics  sadiesworld   Sep-19-06 04:54 PM   #73 
        - Unfortunatly...  Thankfully_in_Britain   Sep-20-06 12:53 PM   #83 
  - Why do you think that  Jed Dilligan   Sep-19-06 12:49 PM   #51 
  - This thread proves his point. n/t  Finder   Sep-19-06 09:23 AM   #41 
  - Care to flesh out that thought a bit? n/t  KrazyKat   Sep-19-06 01:13 PM   #56 
  - It's not a problem facing civilization  NoMoreMyths   Sep-19-06 09:38 AM   #42 
  - This Sam Harris character...  Bornaginhooligan   Sep-19-06 11:19 AM   #49 
  - "Terrifying numbers"  Jed Dilligan   Sep-19-06 12:50 PM   #52 
  - Predictably, Limbaugh gleefully read passages from this article yesterday.  flpoljunkie   Sep-19-06 01:05 PM   #54 
  - ...and Limbaugh took it out of context like always, I'm sure.  greyl   Sep-19-06 01:28 PM   #58 
     - LOL  Bornaginhooligan   Sep-19-06 01:29 PM   #59 
     - I don't get it. nt  greyl   Sep-19-06 01:34 PM   #60 
     - Statements like the one below are meant not to criticize, but to smear.  flpoljunkie   Sep-19-06 03:26 PM   #69 
        - Smear who?  greyl   Sep-19-06 04:15 PM   #71 
           - Smear all Democrats.  flpoljunkie   Sep-19-06 08:14 PM   #76 
              - That's not a smear of Democrats in the least. nt  greyl   Sep-20-06 05:45 AM   #77 
                 - That is your opinion of his article, not mine. His criticisms tar us all.  flpoljunkie   Sep-20-06 07:33 AM   #78 
                    - I asked if you could explain, and you haven't yet.  greyl   Sep-20-06 07:41 AM   #79 
  - "Perhaps I should establish my liberal bone fides at the outset."  ContraBass Black   Sep-19-06 03:18 PM   #68 
  - How would you describe "liberal" in 20 words or less? nt  greyl   Sep-19-06 04:37 PM   #72 
  - This is just crap. They hate us for our rational thought. Yeah right.  leesa   Sep-20-06 08:08 AM   #80 
  - "They" sound a lot like the Pope for some unknown reason. nt  greyl   Sep-20-06 08:54 AM   #82 
  - Flame Baiting  stepnw1f   Sep-21-06 06:44 PM   #88 

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