Spider Jerusalem
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Sat Sep-16-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
| 128. Not quite that cut and dried... |
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considering that the Crusades were at least in party a response to aggressive militarism by Muslim rulers and the forced conversion of Christian populations in conquered territories. The Crusades were, to some degree, defensive (at least initially); to take the simplistic and ahistorical view that they were fought to subjugate Muslims and force them to accept Christ at sword-point is to ignore the fact that between 632 and 1095, when Pope Urban II preached the First Crusade, Islam had conquered most of what HAD been Christendom (including North Africa, Palestine, etc; which had been largely Christian prior to Muslim conquest), and continued to make aggressive assaults against Christian territories (including the Byzantine Empire and much of Southeastern Europe; this aggression didn't really stop until the armies of Poland and Austria under Jan II Sobieski defeated the Ottoman Turks at Vienna in 1683).
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| -Muslim anger grows over pope’s remarks |
Fountain79 |
Sep-15-06 06:16 AM |
#0 |
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IMO, this is the equivalent of the Pope saying "Bring'em on!" n/t |
no_hypocrisy |
Sep-15-06 06:22 AM |
#1 |
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Hardly..... |
Fountain79 |
Sep-15-06 06:27 AM |
#2 |
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Please remind me, |
Xipe Totec |
Sep-15-06 06:45 AM |
#6 |
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Bingo. |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 06:50 AM |
#8 |
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The crusades were not fought to annihilate islam. |
patcox2 |
Sep-15-06 01:14 PM |
#72 |
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If you truly believe that the Crusaders did not believe it was their holy |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 01:50 PM |
#76 |
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I suppose that explains... |
Spider Jerusalem |
Sep-16-06 04:15 PM |
#129 |
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The Muslims were as guilty as the Christians |
tenshi816 |
Sep-15-06 07:42 AM |
#12 |
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And the Christians are as guilty as the Muslims. |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:11 AM |
#18 |
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Yes, they're as bad as each other, definitely. |
tenshi816 |
Sep-15-06 08:47 AM |
#39 |
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does his view have anything to do with the fact he is Catholic??? |
bobbieinok |
Sep-15-06 11:03 PM |
#112 |
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The Crusades were an answer to Muslim incursion into Europe |
cigsandcoffee |
Sep-15-06 07:46 AM |
#13 |
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Ridiculous! You claim this spurred the 1st Crusade 200 years later!? |
Bonobo |
Sep-15-06 08:52 AM |
#42 |
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No just 24 years earlier, the battle of Mazikert. in 1071 |
happyslug |
Sep-15-06 09:54 AM |
#52 |
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Thank you... Will study when I can. ;) |
Bonobo |
Sep-15-06 10:01 AM |
#53 |
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What you leave out is that the first crusade was basically ordered |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 10:35 AM |
#57 |
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You ignoring some other history, as who were the majority in Palestine |
happyslug |
Sep-15-06 01:12 PM |
#70 |
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Its wonderful to see real facts and analysis brought to this. |
patcox2 |
Sep-15-06 01:18 PM |
#74 |
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It has nothing to do with anti-catholic bias, but rather with facts |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 01:46 PM |
#75 |
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Catholics did not massacre muslims in their own lands. |
patcox2 |
Sep-15-06 02:52 PM |
#77 |
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Self-hatred? I don't think so. You know nothing about me or who |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 03:03 PM |
#78 |
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Unless you aren't Christian, how |
mmonk |
Sep-16-06 07:21 AM |
#117 |
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Definitely not a Christian. |
ET Awful |
Sep-16-06 11:08 AM |
#118 |
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And your tree? |
mmonk |
Sep-16-06 11:11 PM |
#131 |
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To ignore Egypt when it comes to Palestine is to ignore 5000 yr of History |
happyslug |
Sep-15-06 09:37 PM |
#100 |
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Remind me...how long ago was that? n/t |
Fountain79 |
Sep-15-06 07:26 PM |
#99 |
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Not quite that cut and dried... |
Spider Jerusalem |
Sep-16-06 04:13 PM |
#128 |
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There does seem to be some kind of unwritten rule about that. |
cigsandcoffee |
Sep-15-06 07:50 AM |
#14 |
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Considering the current political situation it makes sense |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:15 AM |
#19 |
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I don't like the black/white double standard, either. |
cigsandcoffee |
Sep-15-06 08:36 AM |
#36 |
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Never mind the many thousands of innocent people murdered whnever we get |
leesa |
Sep-15-06 10:22 PM |
#105 |
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There is extremism on both sides on the past |
Craftsman |
Sep-15-06 08:15 AM |
#20 |
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They have the US military carrying out their work for them. |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:21 AM |
#31 |
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Bombs planted outside family planning clinics however are |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 08:43 AM |
#38 |
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No but they are few and far between |
Craftsman |
Sep-15-06 09:00 AM |
#45 |
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Mmmmhmmmm, your point? |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 10:25 AM |
#54 |
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Just a couple of days ago... |
Bornaginhooligan |
Sep-15-06 01:01 PM |
#65 |
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I don't see Muslims doing that either, to be fair. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Sep-15-06 09:08 AM |
#50 |
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The problem is not that people don't criticize Islam, the problem is that |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 10:29 AM |
#55 |
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Yes and no. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Sep-15-06 06:10 PM |
#95 |
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The muslims and rest of the world |
CJCRANE |
Sep-15-06 01:03 PM |
#67 |
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I thought Hindu was the sacred cow... |
deaniac21 |
Sep-15-06 10:33 AM |
#56 |
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Islam is not a sacred cow |
CJCRANE |
Sep-15-06 01:00 PM |
#63 |
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A critique from the 14th century is valid today? |
Clark2008 |
Sep-15-06 08:18 AM |
#26 |
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Der Popenfuhrer just called Islam evil. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Sep-15-06 12:58 PM |
#62 |
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no he didn't. n/t |
Henny Penny |
Sep-15-06 05:44 PM |
#91 |
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No it isn't. The clown in a dress was quoting one of his ancient |
MADem |
Sep-15-06 07:32 AM |
#11 |
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You're right, of course, but wouldn't you just |
tenshi816 |
Sep-15-06 08:06 AM |
#16 |
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It would be worth seeing, for sure...and even more so if he wore |
MADem |
Sep-15-06 08:59 AM |
#43 |
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Sunglasses would be good too, |
tenshi816 |
Sep-15-06 09:04 AM |
#48 |
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"Clown in a dress." What does the Dalai Lama have to do with this? |
cigsandcoffee |
Sep-15-06 03:51 PM |
#83 |
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The Dalai Lama doesn't wear a dress. He wears curtains. |
cherokeeprogressive |
Sep-16-06 02:58 PM |
#122 |
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I find all religious costumes goofy and manipulative |
MADem |
Sep-16-06 05:19 PM |
#130 |
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you might like to reconsider your opinion! |
Henny Penny |
Sep-15-06 05:44 PM |
#90 |
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Are the people being stirred up regular Muslims |
magellan |
Sep-15-06 06:27 AM |
#3 |
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Exactly, what is it about one Muslim fanatic that gets Americans |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:16 AM |
#23 |
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Organized religion - the #1 cause of bloodshed in the world |
Number9Dream |
Sep-15-06 06:43 AM |
#4 |
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i guess the millions killed in pogroms in Soviet |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Sep-15-06 08:16 AM |
#21 |
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Sure they do. There was something religious about the Soviets |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:18 AM |
#25 |
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Try "dogma." And take a look at this: |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Sep-15-06 08:21 AM |
#29 |
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The Soviets had control of the press, too. |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:32 AM |
#34 |
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Communism WAS a religion |
doubleplusgood |
Sep-15-06 08:30 AM |
#33 |
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ok...as long as people see that |
ProdigalJunkMail |
Sep-15-06 08:37 AM |
#37 |
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religion isn't the cause, more the means to war. . . |
Hamlette |
Sep-15-06 09:01 AM |
#46 |
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I guess he forgot about his predecessors who suggested |
ET Awful |
Sep-15-06 06:45 AM |
#5 |
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Even part of the same faith |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:33 AM |
#35 |
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Well, Benedict ran the Spanish Inquisition |
dmesg |
Sep-15-06 03:33 PM |
#81 |
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Oh really? How amazing! |
Ripley |
Sep-15-06 06:50 AM |
#7 |
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How many burn embassies of muslim countries though? |
dmesg |
Sep-15-06 03:37 PM |
#82 |
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What I want to knowis |
NC_Nurse |
Sep-15-06 07:16 AM |
#9 |
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They have a long memory |
notmypresident |
Sep-15-06 07:22 AM |
#10 |
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Because the history of Catholicism is all warm and fuzzy, right? |
philosophie_en_rose |
Sep-15-06 07:54 AM |
#15 |
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It's not like we make any attempt to understand them |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:10 AM |
#17 |
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They make no attempt to understand the West, either. |
Codeine |
Sep-15-06 10:08 PM |
#101 |
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So, if a top Jewish cleric says Jesus brought the Inquisition |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Sep-15-06 08:16 AM |
#22 |
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There probably are some "Christians" who would bomb a |
treestar |
Sep-15-06 08:20 AM |
#28 |
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Firebombings of Catholic churches will probably start |
geek tragedy |
Sep-15-06 08:17 AM |
#24 |
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That's probably what Pope Ratzi wants. |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Sep-15-06 08:19 AM |
#27 |
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Pope Ratzo is a rightwinger and is incredibly intolerant. |
geek tragedy |
Sep-15-06 08:23 AM |
#32 |
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Well, the attacks on Christian Churches have already begun. |
geek tragedy |
Sep-16-06 12:25 PM |
#119 |
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That's a holy man for you.... |
dogday |
Sep-15-06 08:21 AM |
#30 |
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Double Standards |
Woolwich |
Sep-15-06 08:49 AM |
#40 |
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he`s an old fool |
madrchsod |
Sep-15-06 08:51 AM |
#41 |
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Islam should be ridiculed at every |
genie_weenie |
Sep-15-06 09:00 AM |
#44 |
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Agreed. |
Taxloss |
Sep-15-06 01:10 PM |
#69 |
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Well said! |
Codeine |
Sep-15-06 10:09 PM |
#102 |
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*No Sacred Cows* sounds good and |
genie_weenie |
Sep-16-06 06:56 AM |
#116 |
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Da pope has gone and pooped |
UTUSN |
Sep-15-06 09:04 AM |
#47 |
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Wake up. Damage from Christian terrorism far exceeds that of Muslim. |
The Stranger |
Sep-15-06 09:08 AM |
#49 |
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Excuse me? |
Taoschick |
Sep-15-06 11:25 PM |
#114 |
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How about this? |
Hatalles |
Sep-15-06 11:32 PM |
#115 |
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Are you unaware of the rampage called The Holy Inquisition? |
CarlVK |
Sep-16-06 04:00 PM |
#127 |
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This guy just shows how great of a pope JPII was |
noonwitch |
Sep-15-06 09:27 AM |
#51 |
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Yes, thank Goddess! |
deaniac21 |
Sep-15-06 10:37 AM |
#58 |
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Anyone attacking the pope for this needs to read what he actually said |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Sep-15-06 12:13 PM |
#59 |
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Sorry. I'm too filled with the Zeal |
genie_weenie |
Sep-15-06 12:16 PM |
#60 |
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Oh, but you SHOULD follow his suggestion! See below. |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Sep-15-06 01:02 PM |
#66 |
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Thanks for the suggestion. I read what he actually said... |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Sep-15-06 01:01 PM |
#64 |
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He certainly speaks out against violent conversion. |
Taxloss |
Sep-15-06 01:05 PM |
#68 |
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My thoughts exactly. |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Sep-15-06 01:14 PM |
#71 |
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Yes, because clearly the pope wants to offend Muslims pointlessly. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Sep-15-06 05:42 PM |
#89 |
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No, not pointlessly. -nt |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Sep-15-06 06:04 PM |
#92 |
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You'll need more than that to convince me of anything. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Sep-15-06 06:15 PM |
#96 |
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He clearly isn't agreeing with it. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Sep-15-06 05:34 PM |
#88 |
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RW is totally out of control. These fundies are out of control |
Xenotime |
Sep-15-06 12:54 PM |
#61 |
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Yep, the only people |
CJCRANE |
Sep-15-06 01:15 PM |
#73 |
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did they condemn Ahmadinejad ? |
JI7 |
Sep-15-06 03:07 PM |
#79 |
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I, frankly, have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. |
Bornaginhooligan |
Sep-15-06 03:11 PM |
#80 |
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This morning I read, "Anyone that accuses Islam of intolerance risks |
retread |
Sep-15-06 03:53 PM |
#84 |
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Who said that? Somebody from the Taliban? |
Commie Pinko Dirtbag |
Sep-15-06 06:07 PM |
#93 |
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Thankfully, it's not true. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Sep-15-06 06:16 PM |
#97 |
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Here's some words for you boys: "Gays. Birth Control. Science. Sexuality." |
impeachdubya |
Sep-15-06 04:42 PM |
#85 |
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Nothing new |
FoxOnTheRun |
Sep-15-06 04:55 PM |
#86 |
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the Pope's language is an incitement of more violent rhetoric |
Supersedeas |
Sep-15-06 05:04 PM |
#87 |
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Is there something incorrect about what that emperor said? Was that NOT |
WinkyDink |
Sep-15-06 06:10 PM |
#94 |
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Yeah Fountain79 I agree |
Cornerstone |
Sep-15-06 06:18 PM |
#98 |
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Lots of bigots on this thread. |
leesa |
Sep-15-06 10:25 PM |
#107 |
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lots of self-righteous prisspots, too. n/t |
QC |
Sep-15-06 10:50 PM |
#111 |
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Apparently the Pope is one of them. |
CarlVK |
Sep-16-06 03:52 PM |
#124 |
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Give me a break. Why would you excuse inciting Muslims at this time? |
CarlVK |
Sep-15-06 10:12 PM |
#103 |
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Muslim anger grows over every damned thing! |
Codeine |
Sep-15-06 10:13 PM |
#104 |
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Maybe because they are the ones getting blown up and murdered by the tens |
leesa |
Sep-15-06 10:24 PM |
#106 |
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"Islam" is not the problem. Fanaticism is. |
CarlVK |
Sep-16-06 03:58 PM |
#126 |
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The man isn't worthy of being a pope |
savemefromdumbya |
Sep-15-06 10:27 PM |
#108 |
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Pope doesnt want war in name of religion.... |
lisainmilo |
Sep-15-06 10:40 PM |
#109 |
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and how did Charlemagne convert the Saxons??? |
bobbieinok |
Sep-15-06 10:47 PM |
#110 |
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I'm a little unsure what I think about this right now. |
Dorian Gray |
Sep-15-06 11:06 PM |
#113 |
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I've read the text of his comments in full |
Dorian Gray |
Sep-16-06 03:48 PM |
#123 |
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This is a reflection of the world we live in |
nadinbrzezinski |
Sep-16-06 12:30 PM |
#120 |
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Well, of course - Ratzinger is a religious bigot. |
Zhade |
Sep-16-06 02:48 PM |
#121 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Sep-16-06 03:53 PM |
#125 |
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This is NOT an issue where the Catholic Church leaders' hands are clean. |
1932 |
Sep-16-06 11:23 PM |
#132 |
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