Ravenseye
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Mon Jul-17-06 08:18 AM
Response to Original message |
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They used to be, and one could argue that they still are better because of 'intentions', but those don't go very far.
Reprisals against civilians, whether it's rocket attacks on Haifa, or bombs dropping on suburbs of Beirut, are unforgiveable.
There are those that argue about "who started it" when that question truly has roots over a hundred years old and more. Who started it doesn't matter anymore. Otherwise it validates any number of horrific actions. Just because you were attacked first and are responding, doesn't mean you can use any means necessary including attacking civilians.
There are those who argue that Israel is hitting military targets and the civilians are just simply casualties of war. The problem with that, in my mind, is that Israel is doing large scale damage to civilian areas, knowingly. They aren't precision strikes. They are bombing civilian locations like the airports, in order to prevent people from escaping, yet killing plenty of civilians, and destroying enormous amounts of infrastructure.
Israel can't just sit back and let Hezbollah poke at them with a stick, shoot rockets at Haifa, and kidnap their soldiers, but it's a back and forth. Both sides have been picking and fighting at each other for so long that everything is a reprisal. If that's the case then a civilized country that doesn't wish to terrorize people, would find a different way to fight Hezbollah rather than bombing civilian areas in Beirut filled mostly with people who just want to live their lives.
So really I think while the Israelis come from a position which could grant them a much higher moral position, I think their tactics strip that away from them and bring them down to the level of terrorists themselves.
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| -How is Israel any better than Hezbollah? |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-17-06 08:07 AM |
#0 |
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One method of murder is "legal" the other isn't. |
Tierra_y_Libertad |
Jul-17-06 08:11 AM |
#1 |
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might & U.S. backing make right |
otokogi |
Jul-17-06 08:12 AM |
#2 |
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Looks that way |
malaise |
Jul-17-06 08:19 AM |
#8 |
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THANK YOU! |
Puglover |
Jul-18-06 09:37 AM |
#117 |
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they are not any different |
leftchick |
Jul-17-06 08:12 AM |
#3 |
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Some may or may not agree with me but.......... |
Minnesota Libra |
Jul-17-06 08:13 AM |
#4 |
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So would you agree that the other side has the same rights? |
itzamirakul |
Jul-17-06 08:20 AM |
#12 |
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My whole point is............... |
Minnesota Libra |
Jul-17-06 08:45 AM |
#34 |
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I am trying to keep an fair perspective of the conflict and not judge |
itzamirakul |
Jul-17-06 09:07 AM |
#52 |
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Excuse???? The surrounding countries......... |
Minnesota Libra |
Jul-17-06 09:35 AM |
#54 |
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OK...Hezbollah is not a country...It is composed of rebels, right? |
itzamirakul |
Jul-17-06 10:40 AM |
#72 |
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I brought Hezbollah into the mix because............ |
Minnesota Libra |
Jul-17-06 10:59 AM |
#73 |
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How can they be rebels |
eyl |
Jul-17-06 11:33 AM |
#80 |
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You're right they are now in the government - that makes.............. |
Minnesota Libra |
Jul-17-06 11:55 AM |
#83 |
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Well, we have people sitting in the American government who hold |
itzamirakul |
Jul-17-06 12:45 PM |
#87 |
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Are they sitting in the government |
eyl |
Jul-18-06 03:21 AM |
#107 |
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If a person has DUAL CITIZENSHIP he is at ALL TIMES |
itzamirakul |
Jul-18-06 06:31 AM |
#111 |
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There's a difference between |
eyl |
Jul-18-06 08:44 AM |
#115 |
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An ambassador has been designated to represent his country |
itzamirakul |
Jul-18-06 09:22 AM |
#116 |
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Possibly true |
eyl |
Jul-19-06 04:41 AM |
#119 |
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why? because Hezbollah was rocketing ISrael, which is why this whole thing |
robinlynne |
Jul-17-06 05:11 PM |
#98 |
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My point with the other poster was that at times he/she referred to |
itzamirakul |
Jul-18-06 06:35 AM |
#112 |
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Even when the one country has 100-200 nuclear weapons? |
Tesha |
Jul-17-06 10:37 AM |
#69 |
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Well, the question becomes............ |
Minnesota Libra |
Jul-17-06 11:01 AM |
#74 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jul-17-06 11:22 AM |
#79 |
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What I think is odd is the rage over two soldiers vs. civilian deaths... |
kittenpants |
Jul-17-06 08:23 AM |
#16 |
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You're right, it is "a more hawkish mindset"..................... |
Minnesota Libra |
Jul-17-06 09:01 AM |
#50 |
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not over 2 soldiers. before the soldiers, hezbollah was bombing (rocketing |
robinlynne |
Jul-17-06 05:13 PM |
#99 |
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Loved ones being kidnapped? |
NoMoreMyths |
Jul-17-06 08:29 AM |
#20 |
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So that must make it alright. Please. |
winter999 |
Jul-17-06 09:43 AM |
#55 |
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Did I say that? |
NoMoreMyths |
Jul-17-06 10:07 AM |
#62 |
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No, they're not... |
misanthrope |
Jul-17-06 10:26 AM |
#67 |
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How many of my loved ones would you be willing ... |
Everybody |
Jul-17-06 01:09 PM |
#89 |
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It's what's more gently termed, collective punishment |
Kagemusha |
Jul-17-06 08:14 AM |
#5 |
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Uh, because they have more money? Because they have uniforms? |
Warpy |
Jul-17-06 08:17 AM |
#6 |
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"Eye for an eye" is supposed to be a maximum, not a suggestion |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-17-06 08:26 AM |
#18 |
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That's not how it's being interpreted |
Warpy |
Jul-17-06 08:54 AM |
#44 |
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"Eye for an eye" |
bloom |
Jul-17-06 09:47 AM |
#56 |
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They're not |
Ravenseye |
Jul-17-06 08:18 AM |
#7 |
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I guess the next question then would be... |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-17-06 08:31 AM |
#22 |
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Well, I don't think it does |
Ravenseye |
Jul-17-06 08:58 AM |
#48 |
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It was Israel |
bloom |
Jul-17-06 09:54 AM |
#58 |
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I think that's a good way to look at it |
Ravenseye |
Jul-17-06 10:35 AM |
#68 |
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How is the US |
cali |
Jul-17-06 08:19 AM |
#9 |
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Please elaborate |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-17-06 08:33 AM |
#24 |
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You didn't ask what the |
cali |
Jul-17-06 08:41 AM |
#31 |
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Again: how is your point relevant? |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-17-06 08:51 AM |
#40 |
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Are you really having this |
cali |
Jul-17-06 10:16 AM |
#64 |
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how is Israel any better than Hezbollah? |
Alameda |
Jul-17-06 01:35 PM |
#91 |
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have you read up on the history of russia and chechnya? |
xchrom |
Jul-17-06 08:38 AM |
#27 |
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They aren't n/t |
LostinVA |
Jul-17-06 08:19 AM |
#10 |
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There is no difference. |
Jim__ |
Jul-17-06 08:19 AM |
#11 |
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I would say this: |
Che_Nuevara |
Jul-17-06 08:20 AM |
#13 |
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One is a state backed by the strongest state |
NoMoreMyths |
Jul-17-06 08:21 AM |
#14 |
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The World's Only Superpower. |
Benhurst |
Jul-17-06 09:05 AM |
#51 |
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How are YOU any better? |
IanDB1 |
Jul-17-06 08:23 AM |
#15 |
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Ignored for asking a question? |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-17-06 08:40 AM |
#30 |
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O my God. |
midnight |
Jul-17-06 08:26 AM |
#17 |
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You're not getting |
cali |
Jul-17-06 08:26 AM |
#19 |
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No doubt...... |
CrownPrinceBandar |
Jul-17-06 08:35 AM |
#25 |
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Ain't that the truth |
cali |
Jul-17-06 08:44 AM |
#33 |
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ah, the voice of the 'fair-n-balanced' |
otokogi |
Jul-17-06 08:48 AM |
#37 |
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It seems to me that the "banalities and sentimentalities" of which |
itzamirakul |
Jul-17-06 11:45 AM |
#82 |
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Over the top without a doubt. How about... |
afrosia |
Jul-17-06 08:30 AM |
#21 |
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Tell me |
eyl |
Jul-17-06 08:56 AM |
#46 |
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One more thing: |
cali |
Jul-17-06 08:31 AM |
#23 |
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Would it have been any different |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-17-06 08:38 AM |
#26 |
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Yes. |
cali |
Jul-17-06 08:52 AM |
#41 |
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And did you ask yourself who put that child in harms way? |
winter999 |
Jul-17-06 09:49 AM |
#57 |
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So staying in ones own home in the face of an unannounced attack |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-17-06 10:07 AM |
#63 |
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Also, winter999, reports are coming out that the Israelis are indeed |
itzamirakul |
Jul-17-06 12:04 PM |
#84 |
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facts on the ground |
otokogi |
Jul-17-06 08:46 AM |
#35 |
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You have |
cali |
Jul-18-06 05:46 AM |
#110 |
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something about the faces of reality- cuts right through to the marrow- |
Bluerthanblue |
Jul-17-06 08:59 AM |
#49 |
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I understand and appreciate your sincerity |
cali |
Jul-17-06 10:24 AM |
#66 |
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They aren't any better |
Juniperx |
Jul-17-06 08:39 AM |
#28 |
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Spearhead lyrics apply |
BoneDaddy |
Jul-17-06 08:39 AM |
#29 |
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poor baby n/t |
Swamp Rat |
Jul-17-06 08:42 AM |
#32 |
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I cry and beseech our spiritual Father |
emald |
Jul-17-06 08:47 AM |
#36 |
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those tired old phrases..." right to defend herself"... "you have |
Bluerthanblue |
Jul-17-06 08:48 AM |
#38 |
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I doubt your premise and there is a point by von Clausewitz |
Scribe |
Jul-17-06 08:51 AM |
#39 |
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states use terror on a far more terrible scale |
otokogi |
Jul-17-06 08:52 AM |
#42 |
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It is not a one dimensional issue. If you see it as that simple then |
Scribe |
Jul-17-06 10:06 AM |
#61 |
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Now this begins to sound like one of those "round and round and nobody |
itzamirakul |
Jul-17-06 01:25 PM |
#90 |
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Well then you've missed a critical factor. Hezbollah won 23 seats |
Scribe |
Jul-17-06 04:48 PM |
#94 |
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Yes, I see that you are right and I was wrong... |
itzamirakul |
Jul-18-06 06:40 AM |
#113 |
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How is Israel any better than Hezbollah? |
Alameda |
Jul-17-06 11:44 PM |
#101 |
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Better or worse? I can't make that kind of judgement. Never could. |
Scribe |
Jul-18-06 02:28 PM |
#118 |
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Better or worse? |
Alameda |
Jul-19-06 02:18 PM |
#126 |
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quoting von Clausewitz in |
cali |
Jul-17-06 08:55 AM |
#45 |
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They are no different... |
Xenotime |
Jul-17-06 08:53 AM |
#43 |
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They are not any better. |
LWolf |
Jul-17-06 08:56 AM |
#47 |
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Israel is not intentionally targeting civilian, Hezbollah and Hamas are |
Solo_in_MD |
Jul-17-06 09:24 AM |
#53 |
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I agree - I like the analogy of 2 houses |
KurtNYC |
Jul-17-06 09:55 AM |
#59 |
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I concur. |
akushuki |
Jul-17-06 10:38 AM |
#70 |
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Ironic, though, that the presumed initiator was an attack against soldiers |
lostnfound |
Jul-17-06 11:07 AM |
#77 |
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That's not completely accurate |
eyl |
Jul-17-06 11:34 AM |
#81 |
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I'm sorry for the inaccuracy; thanks for correcting it. |
lostnfound |
Jul-17-06 12:50 PM |
#88 |
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While I see your point, I don't entirely buy it. |
Donald Ian Rankin |
Jul-18-06 04:39 AM |
#108 |
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Right, Israel is accidentally killing civilians, lots of 'm |
rman |
Jul-18-06 04:46 AM |
#109 |
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One cannot divorce motives from methods when discussing |
igil |
Jul-17-06 09:58 AM |
#60 |
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Well put (n/t) |
Che_Nuevara |
Jul-17-06 10:23 AM |
#65 |
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Amen (nt) |
Posteritatis |
Jul-17-06 04:50 PM |
#95 |
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Umm, Israel is better because the US says so? |
Pachamama |
Jul-17-06 10:39 AM |
#71 |
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israel is doing same as we would |
virtualjimbo |
Jul-17-06 11:05 AM |
#75 |
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Gee I Think I Heard Rush Say That |
Binka |
Jul-19-06 05:51 AM |
#123 |
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Motive - profit and might makes right |
ArmchairMeme |
Jul-17-06 11:07 AM |
#76 |
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you perfectly defined how we are to discuss to totally have to agree |
seabeyond |
Jul-17-06 11:16 AM |
#78 |
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I often wonder the same thing |
Truth Hurts A Lot |
Jul-17-06 12:06 PM |
#85 |
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manslaughter versus 1st degree murder |
dmordue |
Jul-17-06 12:43 PM |
#86 |
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Who makes that decision? And who gives them the authority to |
itzamirakul |
Jul-17-06 01:47 PM |
#93 |
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Well, first you'll have to link all those articles about Israelis blowing |
WinkyDink |
Jul-17-06 01:38 PM |
#92 |
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War is the same no matter whose face you put on it. Poor kid. |
lonestarnot |
Jul-17-06 04:54 PM |
#96 |
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I agree. I agree with Israel's motivations, but I do NOT agree with what I |
robinlynne |
Jul-17-06 05:07 PM |
#97 |
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Well, I wouldnt say "Israel", its the IDF doing the killing, specifically. |
Endangered Specie |
Jul-17-06 05:17 PM |
#100 |
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Oh geeze that is so damn sad |
PatriotMom |
Jul-17-06 11:52 PM |
#102 |
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A War Crime |
DubyaSux |
Jul-17-06 11:57 PM |
#103 |
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Oh, I don't know. Maybe these kids could answer that question. |
in_cog_ni_to |
Jul-18-06 12:12 AM |
#104 |
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well, israel has challah bread... |
NuttyFluffers |
Jul-18-06 01:10 AM |
#105 |
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The answer is very simple! |
Clarkie1 |
Jul-18-06 01:12 AM |
#106 |
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The question is methods, not rationale |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jul-18-06 08:02 AM |
#114 |
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Tell ya how.... Hezbollah is antithetical to every liberal ideal. |
Full Metal |
Jul-19-06 04:52 AM |
#120 |
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I believe... |
foreigncorrespondent |
Jul-19-06 05:13 AM |
#121 |
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Have you ever hear of? |
Full Metal |
Jul-19-06 05:36 AM |
#122 |
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Have you ever heard of... |
foreigncorrespondent |
Jul-19-06 07:33 AM |
#124 |
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what are these man-ners that you speak of? |
Full Metal |
Jul-19-06 12:43 PM |
#125 |
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You have posed a question based on a premise which is false. |
Clarkie1 |
Jul-19-06 03:45 PM |
#127 |