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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-20-06 12:56 PM
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23. Actually, I got a better education in math, history, science, and...
...literature in my old-fashioned Catholic school more than forty years ago (I won't say how many more, thanks very much) than my public-school cohorts received. The academic rigor of that school was far greater than almost all of the public schools in surrounding neighborhoods. The problem isn't schools run by/for religious denominations, it's institutions labelled "school" that function as disinformation and indoctrination facilities.

There is just so much wrong with the WHOLE education-- well, can't call it a 'system,' can we? The whole education schmear, then-- in America that I am not really comfortable with any blanket condemnation of any category of attempts to educate. Every category contains those sincerely attempting to impart real education, those playing along because it's the least cost and effort and they don't give a damn' anyway, and those deliberately twisting the process for their own misbegotten ends.

That said, I agree with the nub of your gist, which is that in order to establish, maintain, and prosper as a democratic society, we need a strong, functional public education system as the norm for the overwhelming majority of our citizenry. When we lost that, the loss of democracy was inevitable within thirty years. No one can legitimately be 'surprised' to watch it slipping through our fingers now.

sadly,
Bright
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  -Call me crazy but I am opposed to home schooling and private schools Taverner  Jun-20-06 12:42 PM   #0 
  - Me too.  Bornaginhooligan   Jun-20-06 12:43 PM   #1 
  - See, I don't think thats a natural right  Taverner   Jun-20-06 12:47 PM   #6 
  - Right.  Bornaginhooligan   Jun-20-06 12:49 PM   #13 
  - I disagree  cali   Jun-20-06 12:51 PM   #16 
  - Agreed  Ohio Joe   Jun-20-06 12:54 PM   #20 
  - Then what's wrong with a private school?  new_beawr   Jun-20-06 12:55 PM   #22 
  - I wouldn't have so much of a problem with private schools if...  Taverner   Jun-20-06 12:58 PM   #25 
     - Oh, ick.... see my edited post above.....  new_beawr   Jun-20-06 01:00 PM   #30 
     - You are aware that there are secular private schools, right?  bicentennial_baby   Jun-20-06 01:00 PM   #32 
     - I know...but my argument against high-end private schools is that...  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:02 PM   #36 
        - Puhleeze....it's called financial aid  bicentennial_baby   Jun-20-06 01:05 PM   #41 
           - Well I also think our public schools are in need of a serious overhaul  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:15 PM   #50 
           - I totally agree with you  bicentennial_baby   Jun-20-06 01:21 PM   #56 
           - We also need to bring back the one on ones  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:24 PM   #64 
              - one-on-one teaching  mzteris   Jun-20-06 09:00 PM   #126 
           - "Bilingual"  AllNamesHaveBeenUsed   Jun-21-06 07:14 PM   #172 
           - I don't hold a strong line on it like Taverner, but part of the reason  Gormy Cuss   Jun-20-06 01:26 PM   #65 
              - Your post should be its own thread  lastliberalintexas   Jun-20-06 01:41 PM   #77 
              - so what you are saying is...  hypocriteslayer   Jun-22-06 01:30 AM   #179 
              - I not only vote for the levies, I volunteer for the levies BUT  pnwmom   Jun-20-06 01:52 PM   #86 
                 - I understand, I might be a (self described) hypocrite too!  lastliberalintexas   Jun-20-06 01:59 PM   #88 
                 - The other thing, lastliberalintexas, is that even the best public  pnwmom   Jun-20-06 02:14 PM   #93 
                 - You aren't the problem.  Gormy Cuss   Jun-20-06 02:14 PM   #95 
                    - I think it's an obligation. Our next generation of voters is being  pnwmom   Jun-20-06 07:56 PM   #123 
     - Taverner, I can see where you're coming from.  pnwmom   Jun-20-06 01:41 PM   #79 
     - I could live with that  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:43 PM   #80 
     - Does your reasoning also state that only  igil   Jun-20-06 03:05 PM   #104 
     - Dayum, I learned the same things in fundy school! n/t  Ladyhawk   Jun-21-06 02:42 AM   #144 
     - Why shouldn't they be on the school board?  Nicole   Jun-21-06 05:25 AM   #151 
     - Everyone has the right...  hypocriteslayer   Jun-22-06 01:31 AM   #180 
  - You think if every child were taught in public schools  gollygee   Jun-20-06 02:12 PM   #92 
  - I think "parent's rights" are a myth - a falsehood.  TahitiNut   Jun-20-06 01:15 PM   #49 
     - t's the children who have the 'rights'  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:16 PM   #51 
     - What exactly  NoMoreMyths   Jun-20-06 01:22 PM   #58 
     - OK...  Bornaginhooligan   Jun-20-06 01:29 PM   #69 
     - I call that an 'entitlement' ... not a 'right.'  TahitiNut   Jun-20-06 01:47 PM   #83 
     - Who should decide what is in their best interests?  gollygee   Jun-20-06 02:08 PM   #91 
     - I'm sure Andrea Yates, Deanna Laney, and Susan Smith would have agreed.  TahitiNut   Jun-20-06 06:58 PM   #117 
        - So we should form our public policy on  gollygee   Jun-20-06 07:12 PM   #118 
           - Strawman bullshit.  TahitiNut   Jun-20-06 07:25 PM   #119 
              - Bringing up Andrea Yates is the epitome of "strawman bullshit"  gollygee   Jun-20-06 07:38 PM   #120 
                 - Uh-huh. I suppose 'logic' is a subject only aliens like Spock study, huh?  TahitiNut   Jun-20-06 10:48 PM   #136 
     - So who decides what is right and wrong??  hypocriteslayer   Jun-22-06 01:36 AM   #181 
  - I am too because not everyone is qualified to teach.  Beelzebud   Jun-20-06 12:44 PM   #2 
  - I know several folks who  cali   Jun-20-06 12:48 PM   #7 
     - Same here  wicket   Jun-20-06 12:49 PM   #11 
  - I Agree, Unless a Family has no ALTERNATIVE  stepnw1f   Jun-20-06 12:45 PM   #3 
  - The local junior college is full of home-schooled kids.  Ladyhawk   Jun-21-06 02:55 AM   #148 
  - Parents have the right to cloister their kids if they want to.  Yollam   Jun-20-06 12:46 PM   #4 
  - So the parents right to cloister their kids  kiahzero   Jun-20-06 11:24 PM   #139 
     - There are requirements for home-schooling and private schools that address  Yollam   Jun-20-06 11:56 PM   #140 
  - I don't think your crazy  Ohio Joe   Jun-20-06 12:46 PM   #5 
  - Well if they want to home school kids after class  Taverner   Jun-20-06 12:49 PM   #10 
     - In what manner?  Ohio Joe   Jun-20-06 12:50 PM   # 
        - See post #6  Taverner   Jun-20-06 12:52 PM   #17 
           - Yeah because  cali   Jun-20-06 12:58 PM   #27 
           - OK but...  Ohio Joe   Jun-20-06 01:02 PM   #37 
           - You make very good points, however  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:08 PM   #42 
              - I can agree with that  Ohio Joe   Jun-20-06 01:20 PM   #54 
              - Only thru shared misery shall we rise up.....  rinsd   Jun-20-06 01:23 PM   #61 
              - My parents didn't have money for my high school tuition  AngryAmish   Jun-20-06 02:14 PM   #94 
              - But most aren't reserved for the rich.  igil   Jun-20-06 03:12 PM   #107 
              - Talk to me about "equalizing"  TallahasseeGrannie   Jun-21-06 07:21 PM   #173 
           - So your theoretical infringement gives you cause for direct infringement?  rinsd   Jun-20-06 01:14 PM   #48 
  - Home schooling is not arbitrary. Parents have to follow state  carolinalady   Jun-20-06 12:48 PM   #8 
  - Yes, but it is arbitrary enough  Taverner   Jun-20-06 12:50 PM   #14 
  - I think you may be making an argument on assumption rather  carolinalady   Jun-20-06 12:51 PM   #15 
  - Well I have seen standardized tests for California  Taverner   Jun-20-06 12:53 PM   #19 
     - In NC-standardized tests for middle school include pre-algebra  carolinalady   Jun-20-06 12:58 PM   #26 
     - Well, then lobby to have the standards raised  rockymountaindem   Jun-20-06 03:25 PM   #109 
  - I know a woman who home-schooled two  LibDemAlways   Jun-20-06 01:26 PM   #66 
     - "during school hours"  mzteris   Jun-20-06 09:57 PM   #132 
  - Not in every state n/t  LostinVA   Jun-20-06 01:23 PM   #60 
  - That's not true in every state. Have you heard about "unschooling"?  pnwmom   Jun-20-06 02:16 PM   #97 
  - What's wrong with unschooling?  mzteris   Jun-21-06 03:02 PM   #163 
  - Not in all states  dsc   Jun-20-06 07:52 PM   #122 
  - That is not true in all states..  BeTheChange   Jun-21-06 02:25 AM   #143 
  - I am personally against home schooling because of the  MemphisTiger   Jun-20-06 12:48 PM   #9 
  - I'm opposed to pinheads telling me how to raise my kids.  Big Kahuna   Jun-20-06 12:49 PM   #12 
  - I'm not opposed to home schooling with a secular curriculum  Selatius   Jun-20-06 12:53 PM   #18 
  - Some is brainwashing.  igil   Jun-20-06 03:18 PM   #108 
  - I agree with you 100%  jaxx   Jun-20-06 12:54 PM   #21 
  - Actually, I got a better education in math, history, science, and...  TygrBright   Jun-20-06 12:56 PM   #23 
  - "Religious schools do not provide a true education"?  Bunny   Jun-20-06 12:57 PM   #24 
  - Catholic Schools aren't as bad as the Fundy ones, that's for sure  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:00 PM   #29 
     - I taught in two Catholic schools for three years.  knitter4democracy   Jun-20-06 07:47 PM   #121 
     - Did anyone see this video on Google  bigluckyfeet   Jun-21-06 02:53 AM   #147 
  - I basically agree, but...  SmokingJacket   Jun-20-06 12:59 PM   #28 
  - Sometimes DU is downright scary  qanda   Jun-20-06 01:00 PM   #31 
  - Just because I have an opinion doesn't mean you have to agree  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:01 PM   #33 
  - I went to private school through high school...  mike923   Jun-20-06 01:01 PM   #34 
  - OK Crazy Man  Book Lover   Jun-20-06 01:02 PM   #35 
  - I am sure someone can home school a kid right...  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:05 PM   #39 
     - There are a whole lot of religious nuts that came out of public  carolinalady   Jun-20-06 01:20 PM   #52 
     - Good point - this is true, however...  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:37 PM   #76 
     - This is my issue with people who'd like one language as well  NoMoreMyths   Jun-20-06 01:20 PM   #53 
     - So your problem is that people are free to educate their kids as they see  Book Lover   Jun-20-06 01:36 PM   #75 
     - You don't have a right to decide who shares your world  gollygee   Jun-20-06 02:14 PM   #96 
     - True poor choice of words...  Taverner   Jun-20-06 02:21 PM   #100 
     - The Rev. Fred Phelps  Nicole   Jun-21-06 05:53 AM   #152 
     - Fred Phelps can do what he wants  theboss   Jun-22-06 09:15 AM   #185 
  - okay...if you insist  denese   Jun-20-06 01:04 PM   #38 
  - Welcome to DU!!!  mzteris   Jun-20-06 09:09 PM   #127 
     - Thanks  denese   Jun-20-06 09:30 PM   #130 
  - hOMESKOOLING WERKED FOR ME!1111  leeroysphits   Jun-20-06 01:05 PM   #40 
  - You're crazy.  JVS   Jun-20-06 01:08 PM   #43 
  - Hmph.  Dora   Jun-20-06 01:13 PM   #44 
  - my daughter goes to a non-religious private school  chimpsrsmarter   Jun-20-06 01:13 PM   #45 
  - I have rarely seen such nonsense posted on DU  slackmaster   Jun-20-06 01:14 PM   #46 
  - Academic findings:  carolinalady   Jun-20-06 01:14 PM   #47 
  - These numbers will mean everything to me when I know that as many  phylny   Jun-20-06 03:42 PM   #114 
     - I would think that special education students would be the ones  carolinalady   Jun-20-06 11:12 PM   #137 
        - My statement makes sense because someone has tried to compare  phylny   Jun-21-06 05:58 AM   #153 
  - Man, I am huuuuuungry  LostinVA   Jun-20-06 01:21 PM   #55 
  - In many ways, you are exactly right  ComerPerro   Jun-20-06 01:22 PM   #57 
  - I'm a professional educator in a public university...  mike_c   Jun-20-06 01:22 PM   #59 
  - Excellent post.  rinsd   Jun-20-06 01:28 PM   #68 
  - I'm a public school teacher and I think you are 100% wrong.  Clarkie1   Jun-20-06 01:23 PM   #62 
  - Home schooling in my day  Blue_In_AK   Jun-20-06 01:23 PM   #63 
  - I've talked with some liberal homeschoolers  hyphenate   Jun-20-06 01:28 PM   #67 
  - Remember  TallahasseeGrannie   Jun-21-06 07:33 PM   #174 
  - Okay, you're crazy  LeftyMom   Jun-20-06 01:30 PM   #70 
  - I thought you already knew I was crazy?  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:34 PM   #73 
     - The problem with that is  LeftyMom   Jun-20-06 01:41 PM   #78 
        - But lets just say those special needs kids come from poor families?  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:45 PM   #81 
           - It doesn't take a lot of resources to homeschool, really  LeftyMom   Jun-20-06 01:50 PM   #85 
              - But still...how can a parent diagnose their kid's special needs?  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:53 PM   #87 
                 - Doctors diagnose those things, not schools  LeftyMom   Jun-20-06 02:02 PM   #89 
                    - One of my neighbors home-schooled her kids and regrets  pnwmom   Jun-20-06 02:23 PM   #102 
                    - Hold the fort there honey b/f you make that claim....  MichiganVote   Jun-20-06 02:56 PM   #103 
  - Our Public schools are fantastic- the talk of the world....  SavetheUSA   Jun-20-06 01:31 PM   #71 
  - Um, oral sex was invented long before these days...  Taverner   Jun-20-06 01:36 PM   #74 
  - I'm not going to sacrifice my kids to my ideals, though I  pnwmom   Jun-20-06 01:33 PM   #72 
  - Precisely.  Mark E. Smith   Jun-20-06 01:46 PM   #82 
  - NOT SO FAST  slide to the left   Jun-20-06 01:49 PM   #84 
  - Um...no...  cynatnite   Jun-20-06 02:04 PM   #90 
  - I'm pro choice myself.  davepc   Jun-20-06 02:17 PM   #98 
  - When public schools fail, sometimes it's the only option parents  Cleita   Jun-20-06 02:17 PM   #99 
  - Reminds me of what happened to some friends of mine  slackmaster   Jun-20-06 03:26 PM   #110 
  - I have gone to both public and private schools...  Blue Belle   Jun-20-06 02:23 PM   #101 
  - I think you need the variety. But private schools should be private  applegrove   Jun-20-06 03:06 PM   #105 
  - Yes Canada :) And even in the US we have...  Taverner   Jun-20-06 03:10 PM   #106 
     - It used to be too that people in public schools wore school uniforms..  applegrove   Jun-20-06 03:35 PM   #112 
  - private schools are one thing & just fine by & large; but private/  bridgit   Jun-20-06 03:30 PM   #111 
  - I am waiting for the first Home Schooled Medical School and  bleedingheart   Jun-20-06 03:38 PM   #113 
  - You sound just like that loony  ginbarn   Jun-20-06 04:09 PM   #115 
  - Private schools can make a valuable contribution to education  bluestateguy   Jun-20-06 04:54 PM   #116 
  - I agree with the reasoning behind this,  Jed Dilligan   Jun-20-06 07:58 PM   #124 
  - Well Public Schooling Sucks Too.  OPERATIONMINDCRIME   Jun-20-06 08:00 PM   #125 
  - Homeschooling rocks! It's not just for right-wingers. Lots of progresive  ray of light   Jun-20-06 09:14 PM   #128 
  - May I introduce a hs'd DU'er to you?  mzteris   Jun-20-06 09:29 PM   #129 
  - I disagree  Sailor for Warner   Jun-20-06 09:33 PM   #131 
  - I'm an agnostic and I will probably home school my kid next year for  TheGoldenRule   Jun-20-06 10:04 PM   #133 
  - Public Schools should be the ONLY public financed schooling  tyedyeto   Jun-20-06 10:08 PM   #134 
  - I agree.  Hardrada   Jun-21-06 02:18 AM   #142 
  - I oppose public dollars to private schools, but not private schools per se  Strawman   Jun-20-06 10:24 PM   #135 
  - Question  Nederland   Jun-20-06 11:20 PM   #138 
  - I always have one question that I can never get a satisfactory answer for.  bumblebee1   Jun-21-06 01:51 AM   #141 
  - They often go on to college first  incapsulated   Jun-21-06 02:44 AM   #145 
  - Do you raise your hand at work  mzteris   Jun-21-06 02:45 PM   #160 
     - It's the impression I get.  bumblebee1   Jun-22-06 12:37 AM   #177 
        - I can't vouch for the  mzteris   Jun-22-06 08:48 AM   #183 
  - Thank you, Taverner, I believe I will. And along with 'crazy,' I'll call  BlueIris   Jun-21-06 02:53 AM   #146 
  - Why not home school college too? I wonder what my employer  B Calm   Jun-21-06 04:48 AM   #149 
  - Ever heard of  mzteris   Jun-21-06 02:48 PM   #161 
     - Wasn't home schooling started by LIBERAL HIPPIES back in the 60s  B Calm   Jun-21-06 03:39 PM   #166 
        - a lot of very smart people  mzteris   Jun-21-06 07:01 PM   #170 
  - You are DEAD wrong!  jerry611   Jun-21-06 05:08 AM   #150 
  - Dead wrong? You sound uninformed.  phylny   Jun-21-06 06:03 AM   #155 
  - You're crazy  Nicole   Jun-21-06 06:02 AM   #154 
  - Every kid learns differently  Nobody   Jun-21-06 06:08 AM   #156 
  - I'm not. My kids go to private school.  MelliMel   Jun-21-06 06:41 AM   #157 
  - There are homeschooled kids who frequent DU....  timeforarevolution   Jun-21-06 07:00 AM   #158 
  - Woo - hoo!  mzteris   Jun-21-06 02:51 PM   #162 
  - A question for you,Taverner.  MelliMel   Jun-21-06 07:08 AM   #159 
  - i say.... none of yur business the choice others make  seabeyond   Jun-21-06 03:07 PM   #164 
  - I agree with you, but for perhaps for different reasons. Some of my  lectrobyte   Jun-21-06 03:21 PM   #165 
  - I won't call you crazy...  BigEdMustapha   Jun-21-06 03:54 PM   #167 
  - "No other civilized country allows" homeschooling? Got proof of that?  onenote   Jun-21-06 03:56 PM   #168 
  - Public schools aren't much better  AngryOldDem   Jun-21-06 06:11 PM   #169 
  - I'm looking forward to reading this thread  TallahasseeGrannie   Jun-21-06 07:08 PM   #171 
  - Homeschooling occurs all over the world  Innocent Smith   Jun-21-06 07:36 PM   #175 
  - You have the right to your opinion, but you do NOT  liberalhistorian   Jun-21-06 07:38 PM   #176 
  - Amazingly the world got by....  hypocriteslayer   Jun-22-06 01:23 AM   #178 
  - I'm for freedom of choice, BUT...  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-22-06 05:49 AM   #182 
  - Catholic schools provide great educations  theboss   Jun-22-06 09:12 AM   #184 
 

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