Reply #55: In part, almost certainly.

[Igel]

That's fairly clear; they were killed as sheep would be killed.

Just because it doesn't fit how we would do it and a goal that we would have doesn't mean that it's not a possible goal.

You read the pronouncements, and it's not just about defeat. It's about humiliation and defeat. And sometimes it's hard to tell which the speaker thinks is more important. We are not submitting properly, and therefore we need to be humiliated. We have not shown them proper honor, and have dishonored them; one way of regaining honor is through humiliating the other party, to balance things out.

The idea of honor is weak or gone among some American subcultures; not among others.

We have this idealistic belief or assumption that we can maintain our honor and dignity in spite of what people say and do to us; to act dishonorably is to be dishonorable. We respect those that hew to their ethics and values and carry on honorably in the face of insult and humiliating treatment. This is probably the dominant view of honor in the English-speaking world, at least its the ideal that's usually presented as being dominant. There are other cultures for whom this makes no sense: If you are treated in a humiliating way, your honor and dignity are reduced, and you deserve contempt for not returning the humiliation.