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Reply #134: Two Diaries at Kos that you might find interesting [View All]

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sarahlee (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon May-29-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
134. Two Diaries at Kos that you might find interesting
Cheney and Jefferson both tied to Nigerian bribery scandals??
In looking at how the William Jefferson bribery scandal is related to Halliburton-Dick Cheney shenanigans involving millions of dollars in bribes to Nigerian government officials (and god knows who else), I realize the whole thing might sound outlandish. So as you read on, know that my facts/quotes come from a variety of sources:


And

PNAC Co-Founder Endorses Dems in '08

Robert Kagan is the co-founder with William Kristol of the Project for the New American Century and he thinks it will be better for America if the Democrats win the 2008 contest for the Presidency. If that surprises you, you haven't been paying attention. As far as the PNAC crew goes, power isn't about being a Republican or a Democrat, it's about owning both parties. And, fortunately for us, Kagan is spectacularly upfront about this. To understand his mindset it's important to understand that he doesn't divide the world up into left and right, but into interventionist and isolationist. Kagan has representatives in the Democratic Party. They can loosely be described as the members of the Democratic Leadership Council and the writers at The New Republic.

These opinion leaders consider America to be the 'indispensable nation' and they consider it vital to world peace and security that America maintain its role in the world. For example, it's critical that we maintain military bases from Okinawa, to Tashkent, to Kandahar, to Baku, to Turkey, Baghdad, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Dubai, to Eritrea. From the outside, it looks like they benefit from their association or investments in the companies that do business in those countries, or the companies that arm our military to defend themselves in foreign lands and equip our home defenses to protect against the resentment our occupations cause. But, from the inside, it's more complicated. It's about the evils of communism, or fascism, or Islamo-fascism, or whatever is required as a rhetorical tool next week.


Kagan is part of a literal cabal of people in Washington (in Congress, in thinktanks, in this case, the Washington Post's editorial pages) that assure that any new administration's 'options' are limited and that their approach will not be stunningly different from Bush's. These are the folks that brought you the stalemated Korean War and the need for permanent bases in the south, the disastrous Vietnam War, the Committee on the Present Danger, and Team B. They employ journalists like Judith Miller to write about anthrax, and journalists like Peter Beinert to advocate a tougher foreign policy line from Democrats. They love and contibute to politicians like Joe Lieberman, Joe Biden, Diane Feinstein, and Jane Harman. As long as they can control the debate, assure a centrist nominee from the Democrats, and keep the level of fear in the public high, their racket is safe, even if the people in the World Trade Center were not.

Some may see this as a typical leftist critique. But it's more than that. This is how Washington works, how power wields itself, how the Democrats are co-opted, and how we keep repeating our mistakes by involving ourselves in costly foreign entanglements.

Perhaps the most flamboyant and successful of their campaigns was the one they used to convince us that we defeated the Soviet Union through military spending. It had nothing to do with the superior example our society made to the world through our civil liberties, personal freedoms, prosperity, and human rights advocacy. Nor did it have anything to do with the Soviets poor example and lack of these things. No, no. We brought the Soviets to their knees by spending billions on a failed missile shield and the V-22 Osprey.


In the comments:
The PNAC worldview is a front. It's a mirage. It serves a different purpose that the purpose it purports to support. It's not about Zionism as its critics so often contend, but about money. It's about shaping the mind of the public, and that is where the Straussian stuff comes into play.

The DLC (as it pertains to foreign policy) is just another face or mask of the same phenenomon.

So, you're right to say that the DLC worldview is not exactly aligned with the neo-conservative one. But the PNAC is almost as happy to use the DLC's mask as their own.

They would rather the DLC control the Democratic Party than the Bushies destroy the brand of both PNAC and the DLC.




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  Kucinich discussing nationalizing the oil companies? Terran1212  May-28-06 12:06 PM   #0 
   No matter what you thought of his electioneering,  Drum   May-28-06 12:11 PM   #1 
   I hope you don't mind paying much more for your fuel  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 12:12 PM   #2 
   Nonsense.  TahitiNut   May-28-06 12:28 PM   #8 
   Objective underpinnings ? Nonsense?  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 02:48 PM   #39 
      YES!!!  bvar22   May-28-06 05:15 PM   #61 
      His obscene compensation was from stock options not from profits  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 06:41 PM   #69 
      so it cost the company less than the actual value  Moochy   May-29-06 11:37 AM   #128 
      "Social Security runs with a less than 2% overhead...?"  Walt Disney   May-28-06 07:44 PM   #75 
         Nice talking point.  RUMMYisFROSTED   May-29-06 09:16 AM   #116 
            "The insolvency of SS has nothing to do with inefficiency."  Walt Disney   May-29-06 08:01 PM   #151 
               It has to do with SPENDING on the eternal war against Islam and tax cuts  Paulie   May-30-06 11:52 AM   #157 
                  What LOCK BOX...?  Walt Disney   May-30-06 08:22 PM   #160 
      "I can easily explain why prices would go up."  gully   May-28-06 06:28 PM   #68 
      OK,  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 09:16 PM   #82 
         So basically the normal hiccups that accompany nationalization?  Terran1212   May-28-06 09:18 PM   #83 
         I really don't see...  The_Warmth   May-29-06 02:04 AM   #95 
         Supply and demand do not dictate short tem fluctuations  eridani   May-29-06 03:07 AM   #98 
      *edited*  Marr   May-28-06 07:19 PM   #74 
      Private industry seeks to gain profit...  MN Against Bush   May-28-06 08:35 PM   #78 
      Really?  donbrunton   May-29-06 10:27 AM   #119 
      Gasoline is more expensive  northzax   May-29-06 11:31 AM   #127 
      Automatically Invalidated  ProfessorGAC   May-30-06 10:02 AM   #154 
   Bull, don't play scare the shit out of people...  libertypirate   May-28-06 12:38 PM   #9 
   Did it occur to you that the reason the countries that  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 02:53 PM   #40 
      The US government doesn't have to run at insane profits, though  Terran1212   May-28-06 09:09 PM   #81 
         I know oil profits are the big boogie man on these threads, but  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 09:19 PM   #84 
            But a public industry doesn't have to make any profit it all  Terran1212   May-28-06 09:32 PM   #89 
               What do you do about the dividends the oil companies  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 09:43 PM   #90 
                  I'm not an economics expert, but I think I do understand  Terran1212   May-28-06 09:49 PM   #91 
   You mean like the cost of healthcare when it 's nationalized?  Tierra_y_Libertad   May-28-06 01:31 PM   #19 
   Health care is not a commodity like oil  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 02:55 PM   #41 
      Actually, that's pretty easy to see, for Health Care...  Solon   May-28-06 03:44 PM   #56 
      Yes It Is  ProfessorGAC   May-30-06 10:04 AM   #155 
   How so?  Steve_DeShazer   May-28-06 01:34 PM   #21 
   I certainly agree his compensation was outrageous  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 02:57 PM   #42 
   You're right that it wouldn't affect world prices  Steve_DeShazer   May-28-06 03:05 PM   #45 
   For Big Oil, net profit margins are in the 5-10% range  Telly Savalas   May-28-06 09:50 PM   #92 
      5-10% profit margin are contrived  heartofthesiskiyou   May-29-06 04:00 AM   #103 
   I agree! If the govt owned the oil companies, our price at the pump  Stevepol   May-28-06 03:16 PM   #48 
      My point is pretty easy to understand  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 03:32 PM   #52 
         and let's not forget  northzax   May-29-06 11:39 AM   #129 
   Lee Raymond retired. There's a new CEO.  phylny   May-29-06 08:50 AM   #114 
   You are wrong.  Lefty48197   May-28-06 01:41 PM   #24 
   Ding Ding Ding  stepnw1f   May-28-06 09:21 PM   #85 
   TERRRA!!! TERRAAA!!!11!  realpolitik   May-28-06 01:59 PM   #26 
   Not really  Poppyseedman   May-28-06 03:04 PM   #44 
      Yeah Really  stepnw1f   May-28-06 09:23 PM   #86 
   Yeah, private for-profit corporations can do if for so much cheaper.  rucky   May-29-06 04:49 AM   #104 
   Yeah like in Venezuela - and Saudi Arabia...  rman   May-29-06 05:00 AM   #107 
   When it has happened in other countries the exact opposite has occured.  Toots   May-29-06 11:19 AM   #124 
      name one single net importer of oil  northzax   May-29-06 11:41 AM   #130 
         Venezuela  Toots   May-30-06 09:36 AM   #152 
            why would Venezuela import oil?  northzax   May-30-06 09:50 AM   #153 
   If this idea catches on I hope he is watching his back. I do not  jwirr   May-28-06 12:13 PM   #3 
   By the time this happens, Cheney and Co. won't matter  NEOBuckeye   May-28-06 12:23 PM   #6 
   "radical move" ???  stellanoir   May-28-06 12:14 PM   #4 
   I also think it's a good idea, but  Terran1212   May-28-06 05:42 PM   #62 
      Why "radical" proposals are needed  sarahlee   May-29-06 11:22 AM   #125 
   IMHO that's actually a bad idea. The corruption would be horrible.  Kipling   May-28-06 12:23 PM   #5 
   I must admit that it couldnt be any worse than the folks who currently own  w4rma   May-28-06 02:25 PM   #32 
      That's a Great Idea  bigluckyfeet   May-28-06 02:47 PM   #38 
      See  sarahlee   May-29-06 12:17 PM   #137 
   I don't see nationalization solving our problems,  ContraBass Black   May-28-06 12:24 PM   #7 
   Great idea. Oil companies are the sponsors of fascism worldwide.  Zorra   May-28-06 12:56 PM   #10 
   This is a brave man.  LouisianaLiberal   May-28-06 01:00 PM   #11 
   Neither one of those outcomes would be new  MuseRider   May-28-06 01:06 PM   #14 
   Two Diaries at Kos that you might find interesting  sarahlee   May-29-06 12:00 PM   #134 
      Another on the same subject  sarahlee   May-29-06 12:09 PM   #136 
      Thanks. You should link to this in a separate post.  LouisianaLiberal   May-29-06 12:23 PM   #140 
   Short of a revolution there is NO way this will happen  Caution   May-28-06 01:02 PM   #12 
   Only trouble is that the government is as corrupt as Big Oil.  Vidar   May-28-06 01:04 PM   #13 
   Howzabout a national 'Permanent Fund' for all Americans ?  EVDebs   May-28-06 01:10 PM   #15 
   I think that is an idea that has a better chance than nationalization.  MH1   May-28-06 02:04 PM   #28 
   does your state produce oil?  northzax   May-29-06 11:43 AM   #131 
      CA, yes, produces oil. Yes, I'd probably get royalties but would  EVDebs   May-29-06 04:22 PM   #149 
         you do get royalties, actually  northzax   May-29-06 05:20 PM   #150 
            Uh, look at the tax write-offs the oil co's get for Ag company fronts  EVDebs   May-30-06 11:42 AM   #156 
               sounds like a state government problem to me  northzax   May-30-06 11:53 AM   #158 
                  State and federal tax breaks. Just a part of the $10 Billion subsidy oil  EVDebs   May-30-06 01:41 PM   #159 
   go get 'em DK!  dweller   May-28-06 01:21 PM   #16 
   been there; done that ...  welshTerrier2   May-28-06 01:23 PM   #17 
   But..but..that would mean..EEEK!..SOCIALISM!  Tierra_y_Libertad   May-28-06 01:29 PM   #18 
   Wow-a lone voice in the wilderness wanting to do the right thing  TheGoldenRule   May-28-06 01:34 PM   #20 
   Give em hell Dennis. We need MORE leaders like you.  Lefty48197   May-28-06 01:38 PM   #22 
   Can anyone here who opposes this idea to explain to me why it's bad?  Steve_DeShazer   May-28-06 01:39 PM   #23 
   I wonder. Which oil companies does Kucinich plan to nationalize?  eallen   May-28-06 02:30 PM   #33 
   Thanks. I was looking for a cogent opposition view, and you delivered.  Steve_DeShazer   May-28-06 02:40 PM   #35 
   How are the consumers losing, with things the way they are?  eallen   May-28-06 03:02 PM   #43 
      Door #2  Steve_DeShazer   May-28-06 03:17 PM   #49 
         In that case, here is a better idea, that also helps the poor here & now..  eallen   May-28-06 03:32 PM   #51 
            How about changing your #2 to read  hippywife   May-28-06 09:52 PM   #93 
   Well, let's take a closer look.  TahitiNut   May-28-06 03:16 PM   #47 
   Oh, my, you're right -- values would plummet.  eallen   May-28-06 04:02 PM   #57 
   Here's an example of abuses in the system.  TahitiNut   May-28-06 04:58 PM   #60 
   Values already are dropping,  rman   May-29-06 06:59 AM   #113 
      Don't mistake fluctuations and trends.  eallen   May-29-06 10:01 AM   #118 
         It remains to be seen if this is a fluctuation or a downward trend  rman   May-29-06 10:36 AM   #120 
   Could not agree more  Steve_DeShazer   May-28-06 07:00 PM   #71 
   Otoh, it can be argued that natural oil reserves on US soil are not  rman   May-29-06 06:52 AM   #112 
   Smartest thing I've read on this thread yet. n/t  phylny   May-29-06 08:54 AM   #115 
   One thing  WilliamPitt   May-28-06 03:35 PM   #54 
   Yeah, that's true  Steve_DeShazer   May-28-06 06:55 PM   #70 
   See my post (#100)  Hippo_Tron   May-29-06 03:31 AM   #101 
   Thank the gods  realpolitik   May-28-06 01:56 PM   #25 
   I agree with you on the Oil, Coal, Nat Gas and all energy producing  partylessinOhio   May-28-06 02:45 PM   #37 
   Good luck with that.  SeveneightyWhoa   May-28-06 02:01 PM   #27 
   I support this idea and Kucinich  BayCityProgressive   May-28-06 02:18 PM   #29 
   That doesn't mean we shouldn't float the idea.  Steve_DeShazer   May-28-06 02:32 PM   #34 
   Telling it like it is  rman   May-28-06 02:19 PM   #30 
   I told my husband we should do this!  Daphne08   May-28-06 02:24 PM   #31 
   No Need To Nationalize The Oil Companies -- Nationalize The Oil  Tace   May-28-06 02:41 PM   #36 
   Regulation!!!!  Pharaoh   May-28-06 03:10 PM   #46 
   That's the way it is  sandnsea   May-28-06 03:40 PM   #55 
   That's supposedly already done  Terran1212   May-28-06 05:45 PM   #63 
   Any Congressman but Dennis Kucinich.  LWolf   May-28-06 03:31 PM   #50 
   People who don't own oil company stocks will like this idea  NNN0LHI   May-28-06 03:35 PM   #53 
   Once its clear the world has passed Peak Oil, DK will seem like a prophet.  robertpaulsen   May-28-06 04:08 PM   #58 
   At least talk about it.  IndigoE   May-28-06 04:37 PM   #59 
   Hi IndigoE!!  newyawker99   May-28-06 06:01 PM   #64 
   I would agree but.......  cushla_machree   May-28-06 06:05 PM   #65 
   Oh, that will happen................NOT  progressoid   May-28-06 06:08 PM   #66 
   I agree with your analysis of the situation  JVS   May-28-06 06:09 PM   #67 
   Right idea, wrong president  StopThePendulum   May-28-06 07:05 PM   #72 
   There would literally be assassinations of US politicians if this became  Marr   May-28-06 07:17 PM   #73 
   Bad idea. Kucinich should know better.  Walt Disney   May-28-06 07:47 PM   #76 
   One important thing this would do.  happydreams   May-28-06 08:32 PM   #77 
   why?  northzax   May-29-06 11:49 AM   #132 
      Uncle Sam is us  happydreams   May-29-06 04:22 PM   #148 
   Utterly stupid idea...  Imajika   May-28-06 08:51 PM   #79 
   In nations where oil is nationalized, gas is a lot cheaper then in the US.  rman   May-29-06 04:56 AM   #106 
      Venezuela...  Imajika   May-29-06 09:48 AM   #117 
         being an exporter does not explain the ~25 fold price difference  rman   May-29-06 11:18 AM   #123 
            Ya, it does...  Imajika   May-29-06 12:19 PM   #138 
               Ven. and SA are not oil independent;  rman   May-29-06 12:39 PM   #141 
                  Umm, ya  Imajika   May-29-06 12:56 PM   #144 
   I would hope  libhill   May-28-06 08:56 PM   #80 
   Deleted message  Name removed   May-28-06 09:24 PM   #87 
   This Should Be on the Home Page  stepnw1f   May-28-06 09:27 PM   #88 
   Nominate it  Terran1212   May-29-06 12:06 AM   #94 
   I have exactly ZERO idea whether or not this is a good idea....  BlooInBloo   May-29-06 02:46 AM   #97 
   Nationalize the Alternative Fuel Market first.  dweller   May-29-06 02:43 AM   #96 
   unbelievable  leftofthedial   May-29-06 03:10 AM   #99 
   I disagree with Kucinich and here is why  Hippo_Tron   May-29-06 03:30 AM   #100 
   We're already at the bottom of that other slippery slope;  rman   May-29-06 04:54 AM   #105 
      A fair point...  Hippo_Tron   May-29-06 05:02 AM   #108 
         Right, corporations have other ways to make us bow to fascist government  rman   May-29-06 05:10 AM   #109 
   When you talk about prices, you must specify long or short term effects  eridani   May-29-06 03:57 AM   #102 
   This is the only thing that could save America  Phrogman   May-29-06 05:42 AM   #110 
   Kucinich is courageous in bringing...  Mr_Jefferson_24   May-29-06 05:53 AM   #111 
   YES!! If only to make RW heads explode!!  Trish1168   May-29-06 10:45 AM   #121 
   Oil and gasoline are a utility - just like electricity and natural gas  SnoopDog   May-29-06 11:09 AM   #122 
   so why do you live your life based on access to oil?  northzax   May-29-06 11:56 AM   #133 
      With that logic...  SnoopDog   May-29-06 12:07 PM   #135 
         I too, was born into that country  northzax   May-29-06 12:20 PM   #139 
            I think we are discussing different points....  SnoopDog   May-29-06 12:41 PM   #142 
               and what you aren't explaining  northzax   May-29-06 12:53 PM   #143 
                  Thats just it - a majority of people do support other energy sources.  SnoopDog   May-29-06 01:08 PM   #145 
                     no, a majority of people don't, actually  northzax   May-29-06 01:16 PM   #146 
                        Well, sir, I think we are completely off track from my original post...  SnoopDog   May-29-06 01:51 PM   #147 
   See my post here about why the "radical" ideas are needed  sarahlee   May-29-06 11:25 AM   #126 
 

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