Maeve
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Sat Apr-16-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
| 21. I have to disagree with this, doctrinally |
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The problem was that, according to traditional Church doctrine, a person cannot be punished for a sin they have been forgiven for. When someone repents, it is not our place to question the validity of their repentance or whether or not they really meant it.
You still have to make up for the consequences of the crime; the sacrament only remits the eternal punishment, not the temporal (yeah, Baltimore Catechism talk, but that was my first double-check resource! Question #277 --"Why does God require a temporal punishment as a satisfaction dor sin?" "To teach us the great evil of sin and to prevent us from falling again." And in the note to #275--"Thus Adam, Moses, Aaron and King David were forgiven their sins but were nevertheless punished.")
More of a problem was that the bishops and other priests thought they knew more about how to "prevent another fall" than they did--pride, in other words. They were foolish enough to leave the alcoholic alone behind the bar over and over again--leaving them in "a near occasion of sin".
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| -Proposition: One reason the bishops responded so poorly |
hedgehog |
Apr-15-05 03:50 AM |
#0 |
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I think that's a bit of a stereotype... |
regnaD kciN |
Apr-15-05 05:43 AM |
#1 |
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That's not it at all |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-15-05 04:23 PM |
#2 |
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I agree with you, Angry Old Dem,..and I think the CYA aspect.. |
Princess Turandot |
Apr-15-05 06:14 PM |
#3 |
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Some other points |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-15-05 08:00 PM |
#5 |
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You may have misunderstood by reference to money.. |
Princess Turandot |
Apr-15-05 08:32 PM |
#6 |
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Speaking of "the NAMBLA guy," a journalist who read his entire file |
DemBones DemBones |
Apr-15-05 09:24 PM |
#7 |
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Sorry.. |
Princess Turandot |
Apr-15-05 10:51 PM |
#10 |
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I'm not defending Shanley, nor do I think the journalist is. |
DemBones DemBones |
Apr-15-05 11:53 PM |
#13 |
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And I'm not referring to the court case.. |
Princess Turandot |
Apr-16-05 11:45 AM |
#17 |
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Could have fooled me |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-16-05 05:05 PM |
#23 |
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Do you really believe that's what they're taught? |
Tinoire |
Apr-15-05 07:51 PM |
#4 |
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Absolutely! The media drove the "pedophile priests" scandal and |
DemBones DemBones |
Apr-15-05 10:10 PM |
#8 |
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Whenever I see that argument |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-16-05 04:54 PM |
#22 |
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Look at the reply above about how the current crop of bishops |
hedgehog |
Apr-16-05 12:19 PM |
#19 |
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The bottom line still is, |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-16-05 05:12 PM |
#24 |
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Wow - that is so not what I said |
hedgehog |
Apr-16-05 08:37 PM |
#26 |
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We're talking past each other |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-17-05 02:36 PM |
#31 |
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The problem, IMO, was one of forgiveness. |
Xithras |
Apr-15-05 10:45 PM |
#9 |
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I heard this discussed by the media.. |
Princess Turandot |
Apr-15-05 11:08 PM |
#11 |
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I have to disagree...something fundamental HAS changed. |
Xithras |
Apr-15-05 11:49 PM |
#12 |
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I agree that it is theologically problematic. |
DemBones DemBones |
Apr-16-05 12:06 AM |
#14 |
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Yes, there might be some that are sincerely repentant... |
regnaD kciN |
Apr-16-05 02:46 AM |
#15 |
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I believe that confession without repentence is meaningless.. |
Princess Turandot |
Apr-16-05 12:00 PM |
#18 |
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I have to disagree with this, doctrinally |
Maeve |
Apr-16-05 12:58 PM |
#21 |
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Is this the "seal of confession" aspect? |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-16-05 05:19 PM |
#25 |
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Human sexuality was poorly understood, in general |
Cuban_Liberal |
Apr-16-05 06:56 AM |
#16 |
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Short version- so many of these guys were taught in the 40's and |
hedgehog |
Apr-16-05 12:20 PM |
#20 |
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For those who blame the problem on celibacy , |
hedgehog |
Apr-16-05 08:47 PM |
#27 |
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Actually, the Church's position on sex within marriage is not that narrow |
Cuban_Liberal |
Apr-16-05 09:21 PM |
#28 |
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Agreed - that is the actual position - but you wouldn't know it if |
hedgehog |
Apr-16-05 09:31 PM |
#29 |
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I harbor the same fears |
Padraig18 |
Apr-17-05 07:17 AM |
#30 |
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Me three |
AngryOldDem |
Apr-17-05 02:43 PM |
#32 |