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Reply #21: I have to disagree with this, doctrinally [View All]

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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-16-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. I have to disagree with this, doctrinally
The problem was that, according to traditional Church doctrine, a person cannot be punished for a sin they have been forgiven for. When someone repents, it is not our place to question the validity of their repentance or whether or not they really meant it.

You still have to make up for the consequences of the crime; the sacrament only remits the eternal punishment, not the temporal (yeah, Baltimore Catechism talk, but that was my first double-check resource! Question #277 --"Why does God require a temporal punishment as a satisfaction dor sin?" "To teach us the great evil of sin and to prevent us from falling again." And in the note to #275--"Thus Adam, Moses, Aaron and King David were forgiven their sins but were nevertheless punished.")

More of a problem was that the bishops and other priests thought they knew more about how to "prevent another fall" than they did--pride, in other words. They were foolish enough to leave the alcoholic alone behind the bar over and over again--leaving them in "a near occasion of sin".
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  -Proposition: One reason the bishops responded so poorly hedgehog  Apr-15-05 03:50 AM   #0 
  - I think that's a bit of a stereotype...  regnaD kciN   Apr-15-05 05:43 AM   #1 
  - That's not it at all  AngryOldDem   Apr-15-05 04:23 PM   #2 
  - I agree with you, Angry Old Dem,..and I think the CYA aspect..  Princess Turandot   Apr-15-05 06:14 PM   #3 
     - Some other points  AngryOldDem   Apr-15-05 08:00 PM   #5 
     - You may have misunderstood by reference to money..  Princess Turandot   Apr-15-05 08:32 PM   #6 
     - Speaking of "the NAMBLA guy," a journalist who read his entire file  DemBones DemBones   Apr-15-05 09:24 PM   #7 
        - Sorry..  Princess Turandot   Apr-15-05 10:51 PM   #10 
           - I'm not defending Shanley, nor do I think the journalist is.  DemBones DemBones   Apr-15-05 11:53 PM   #13 
              - And I'm not referring to the court case..  Princess Turandot   Apr-16-05 11:45 AM   #17 
              - Could have fooled me  AngryOldDem   Apr-16-05 05:05 PM   #23 
  - Do you really believe that's what they're taught?  Tinoire   Apr-15-05 07:51 PM   #4 
  - Absolutely! The media drove the "pedophile priests" scandal and  DemBones DemBones   Apr-15-05 10:10 PM   #8 
  - Whenever I see that argument  AngryOldDem   Apr-16-05 04:54 PM   #22 
  - Look at the reply above about how the current crop of bishops  hedgehog   Apr-16-05 12:19 PM   #19 
     - The bottom line still is,  AngryOldDem   Apr-16-05 05:12 PM   #24 
        - Wow - that is so not what I said  hedgehog   Apr-16-05 08:37 PM   #26 
           - We're talking past each other  AngryOldDem   Apr-17-05 02:36 PM   #31 
  - The problem, IMO, was one of forgiveness.  Xithras   Apr-15-05 10:45 PM   #9 
  - I heard this discussed by the media..  Princess Turandot   Apr-15-05 11:08 PM   #11 
  - I have to disagree...something fundamental HAS changed.  Xithras   Apr-15-05 11:49 PM   #12 
     - I agree that it is theologically problematic.  DemBones DemBones   Apr-16-05 12:06 AM   #14 
     - Yes, there might be some that are sincerely repentant...  regnaD kciN   Apr-16-05 02:46 AM   #15 
     - I believe that confession without repentence is meaningless..  Princess Turandot   Apr-16-05 12:00 PM   #18 
  - I have to disagree with this, doctrinally  Maeve   Apr-16-05 12:58 PM   #21 
  - Is this the "seal of confession" aspect?  AngryOldDem   Apr-16-05 05:19 PM   #25 
  - Human sexuality was poorly understood, in general  Cuban_Liberal   Apr-16-05 06:56 AM   #16 
  - Short version- so many of these guys were taught in the 40's and  hedgehog   Apr-16-05 12:20 PM   #20 
     - For those who blame the problem on celibacy ,  hedgehog   Apr-16-05 08:47 PM   #27 
        - Actually, the Church's position on sex within marriage is not that narrow  Cuban_Liberal   Apr-16-05 09:21 PM   #28 
           - Agreed - that is the actual position - but you wouldn't know it if  hedgehog   Apr-16-05 09:31 PM   #29 
              - I harbor the same fears  Padraig18   Apr-17-05 07:17 AM   #30 
                 - Me three  AngryOldDem   Apr-17-05 02:43 PM   #32 
 

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